Baseball Hot Stove: Why This Phrase is Used And What it Means

(Here’s some interesting history and tidbits on the origins of the term Hot Stove.)

Baseball Hot stove is an interesting term which is often used to refer to the activities that happen off season or between seasons. When this term is used, it brings up images of baseball fans gathering around a hot stove to chatter during the winter season. This is often a convenient means of catching up with news because baseball fans get to discuss their favorite teams and players as they soak in the heat of the stove.

The activities that happen during Baseball Hot stove season

We’ve already seen that this season is marked by little to no activities in the sporting arena. During this season, players negotiate new contracts, trades and so on. This is the time when deals are made between players and their respective teams. In addition to this, the off-season offers an opportunity for rumors to spread across the borders concerning the game of baseball.

Where the term Baseball Hot Stove originated from

Surprisingly enough, this phrase originated in the 19th century, and was often used by sports writers when they referred to the act of people gathering around stoves or post offices to discuss the passing parade.

The most interesting thing is that baseball was talked about alongside politics, the police, the churches, and the weather. The phrase was very common until the end of World War II era when rural America begun paving way for larger urban centers to thrive. And when this change was rolled out, the topic found a new home in the TV and radio stations where baseball could be discussed in designated programs.

Meanwhile, off-season chatters or people who loved to gather in one place in order to talk about Baseball become less interactive and even more impersonal.

This is partly the reason why Baseball quickly became a national past time and also the most dominant sport for nearly half the century.

The Hot stove league also thrived in an era when players had to resign, refuse to play or retire when negotiating for better pay or terms. The Hot stove league was very important because it provided a means to spread the news when contracts were underway. News spread like wild fire in those days, thanks to this chatter by the Hot Stove League.

What Baseball Hot Stove means today

This term is still largely used in the 21st century. It is used when referring to the endless discussions which surround the Baseball game as a sport. It may also be used to refer to predictions and speculations which are fueled by Baseball columnists, writers, bloggers, radio talk shows, and podcasters.

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This article has 247 Comments

  1. I have and always will love the Hot Stove season. It is a time of renewed hope for those who lost the year before, and it is fun to see fans make some of the most ridiculous trades you could ever imagine….all to make their team legitimate again……

    1. You mean like moving Puig to 3rd? The 1st domino has dropped. Cespedes gets $27.5m a year for 4 years. No thank you. Mets overpaid annual to get out of 5th year.

      Things will pick up now and projected lineups of Puig at 3rd can stop soon. Guys like Encarnacion and Trumbo should be next.

      The nonsense about the Dodgers payroll the last few days is just that. Nonsense. They’ve been on a plan to get younger since day 1. With everyone not named Kershaw off the books after 2018 season the Dodgers can sign JT and Kenley if they so choose. They may not so choose but it isn’t because of a league mandate.

    2. I don’t like hot stove season cuz that means it’s winter. Winter was ok when I usta ski, but I don’t ski any more. Now winter means college basketball on every channel and football on the weekends and its f’n cold. Baseball season is every day in shorts and a tshirt and the only hot stove is the one heating up the pizza.

      Cespedes. Bah humbug. Who cares about that guy. We got Puig.

      I don’t expect much in the way of free agents coming our way. I think we can afford them, but we just don’t want to. And we don’t have to if we don’t want to.

        1. Badger and Hawkeye,

          I don’t like the winter much either, and I live in Southern Califorina.

          But today is a very nice day it is 65 , and that beats 48 and 54 degrees, like it was last week.

          And I agree the Dodgers can sign anyone they want, and I do think they better sign Turner, and Kenley, or another closer.

          Because they have no one to take there places, and why give up a lot of prospects, when they can use there money.

    1. You and me both. But you know Fried Brains really wants this guy right? #2 Behind Kersh and all that. Trade for Sale, and fill the hole that way.

    2. I dont get it. But if he’s going to surprise and throw 186 innings of sub 3 let him get the extended contract in the AL because the odds he does it are slim, and the odds he does it more than once are slimmer yet. Early projections are 138 innings, 3.74 xFIP. What’s that worth? Hellifino. Probably $15 million in today’s market.

      1. Not that guy. He is almost 37, and is going to cost some money plus you do not want an aged injury prone guy who has had one and one half decent big league seasons blocking the kids. It would probably take a 3 year deal to land him, and he is no Bartolo Colon…

    1. I could see Ramos and Osuna for Puig and somebody, but no way Donnie Baseball lets Puig in Florida. Maybe he’d be interested in Kike, he liked him but it’d take more, at least two more.

  2. I was reading MLBTR top 50 FA and if you were to believe what they suggest will happen: Turner-Dodgers; Jansen-Cubs; Hill- Yankees; Reddick-SF(wrong); Utley-Angels; Blanton- Marlins
    FA coming to us besides Turner: Cespedes(wrong) and Romo.
    So far 10 of the top 50 FA have been signed and MLBTR has been correct on three of them(30%), not bad I guess.
    Point being: Don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.

  3. I sure hope they don’t have a lock out, that will ruin the fun that is coming up this weekend.

    I also hope our front office doesnt wait to long, and have to choose from the players or pitchers that are left, like they did with Kazmir last year.

  4. Big News of the day is agless wonder Vin Scully turned 89 years YOUNG today.
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY VIN AND MANY MANY MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. Also from the “who cares” dept:
    Pirates signed Dodger minor league FA Lisalverto Bonilla to a major league contract today.
    Bonilla this year with Tulsa and OKC was 5-7 ERA 3.97 as a SP and RP. He K’d 118 batters in 111 innings.

  6. Turner must be signed, we have no one internally to replace him. So what if he wants a 5/85 contract? Give it to him. The first 3 years he played with us his batting line was .296/.364/.492 & .856 OPS.
    For all that plus great defense he was paid a total of $8.6MM so let’s assume we DO sign him for 5/85, add the 3 years for $8.6 and it comes out to 8 years for $93.6MM. AVE per year $11.7MM.
    Doesn’t seem that horrible to me. More like a bargain and I haven’t even factored in the inflation rate.

    1. Devil’s advocate – contract year for a 32 year old. Don’t trust what he did, compute what he is likely to do. 130 games – .280/.348/.440. Can he do it for 4 years? Not likely. But maybe 3.

      1. Cespedeshad a number one pick attached to him, like Turner does, so that can go against Turner, like it did against Howie.

        But of course Turner is a much better player then Howie.

        And this might be the last time these number one picks are attached to free agents.

        Badger I think your length of the time that Turner might continue to play up to his contract, is a good guess.

        The Dodgers had the advantage money wise, in almost every year that Turner has played here, like Richie said.

        Kazmir is making 16 million a year, and Turner will probably only make 4 million more then Kazmir.

        And there worth is truly miles apart.

        If they can hand out contracts to these two pitchers, Kazmir and McCarthy.

        They can pay a player, that has more then earned his contract.

        Not only don’t the Dodgers have anyone in there system to play third base, they don’t have a bat close to Turner’s bat either.

        Turner has been our most important bat, in the last two years.

        Like Badger said, Turner had more productive seasons then Cespedes, and Turner is also a much better defensive player.

        1. Actually MJ, Howie has a much better track record than Turner. Turner never really got a chance until he signed as a free agent with the Dodgers. But Howie had been doing it for years with the Angels before Turner ever made the bigs. At this point in time Turner is more productive than Howie, but Howie was the super sub last year, a role he was not used to playing.

          1. Michael
            I know Howie had a better record with the Angels, but in his first year with the Dodgers, his defensive metrics looked bad, and he faded at the end of the season, before he got hurt.

            He has not done as much offensively as Turner has, in the last three years.

            Turner hit 300 plus the first time he played for our team, and with power.

            And the last two years, Turner has continued to hit well, and his power numbers have went up every year.

            Howie has never hit with the power, that Turner has, in the last two years.

            It is what have you done for me lately, and there is no comparsion, in Howie’s and Turner’s offensive stats.

            And Howie does not have the same range on defense at second, and that along with his age, made teams Leary to sign him last year.

  7. Turner walks! He’s gone!

    Most fans look at last seasons stats… which is why they are just fans.

    You have to look at what can be!

    Why would Turner take a 5 year/$85 million contract? Oh, I know why: Maybe he is insane!

    1. Everyone is a lunatic? Who’s insane?

      Why would Turner accept 5/85? Because it’s the best offer? That probably won’t happen, it’s just an answer to the question.

      I think the comparison to Cespedes is valid because Turner actually has had higher WAR the last two years. Considerably more actually. And some of that is from the fact he’s a much better defensive player.

      Yeah, I think somebody is going to offer him more than the Dodgers will.

      1. We are all just plain nuts to think we have the answers for any of these questions. Like last year and the years before that, we will know some things after the meetings, and others will stretch out until close to spring training. Remember, they brought Howie back late in the process.

    2. Mark

      You were the one that had no problem making Baez the Dodger’s new closer.

      That is just crazy!

      And now that I think about it, that would make most Dodger fans crazy.

  8. Well the good news is that a lock out looks less likely. They made significant progress the last 2 days. Cespedes again a Met, which is as it should be. And Badger my friend, I feel your pain as to the winter, and it is just starting to get frigid here. 40’s during the day and teens at night. I also read a story that said the front office prefers to fill the holes the team has by trade rather than free agents. So we will see how active they are at the meetings.

      1. Look at that bad public education!

        Just joking I know how to spell California, my texting fingers didn’t do the job, and I didn’t proof read this to well.

  9. Hope the Dodgers win a pennant before I die because I can’t afford my new Trump care [PG care] or my privatized medicare.

    1. I have seen nothing on medical care from Trump’s administration people yet. I know they want to rescind Obummercare. Hang in there buddy…….I am close to you in age and I want another shot at the big dance too……..

      1. Privatizing Medicare is high on their priority list. Nothing Like giving seniors vouchers and telling him them to buy private insurance because insurance companies so badly want seniors as their customers.🙄

        1. Well they want to privatize SSA too. Not sure how you do that. But I do know over the last 2 years the COLA has not stayed caught up with what it costs to keep your head above water that is for sure. I have medicare hospitalization, but I use the VA for my out patient care. I am pretty healthy for some one my age. Just the normal aches and pains. And I have diabetes, but it is controllable with diet.

          1. They want to privatize SS instead of raising the ridiculous cieling on how much income is subject to SS tax. Move that up to $200,000 and the program is solvent indefinitely.

            How they do it is like this. First, the sell it as optional. Second they tell you your benefits will be less than now if you don’t opt to invest it because some are choosing to opt out of traditional SS so there will be less to pay out of that system. Thus, pressuring everyone to leave traditional SS. Third they country has to take a big loan to continue paying the current beneficiaries while they move the younger people into the privatized system. Of course the younger people are being told this is for their own good while getting the bill for the giant loan. Lastly, when the market has it next big crash we have to figure out how to bail out the seniors who lost everything.

          2. Until we join the advanced societies on this planet and implement single payer there will be more of this nonsense and bankruptcies from medical costs will continue. You know who will never face that possibility? Politicians, staffers and their families. Politicians are all wealthy to begin with but get great coverage through FEHB and gold level Small Business Health Option Programs. They all pay reduced premiums if course. I just read Ted Cruz is also covered through his wife’s employer, Goldman Sachs. It’s good to be kings.

  10. Jon Jay to the Cubbies………looks like Fowler will not be back. According to Dodgerblue, 4 teams after Hill including Dodgers, and they also say the Cardinals are in on Justin Turner. I had read that Atlanta really wanted him……

    1. Hawkeye

      I agree with you about Hill.

      I wouldn’t want to give him more then two years.

      I wouldn’t worry about the insurance yet, because Trump doesn’t have a plan.

      Unless he lets all of these politicians that work for him, try to mess with the current insurance.

      He isn’t getting rid of the politicians.

      He isn’t going to get that much done probably.

      1. Al, skip this post….

        His drain the swamp plan was obviously a ruse to get the bumpkin vote. It worked. Not that everyone who voted for him were bumpkins, some were rich folks, some were just Hillary haters. Insurance? Nope. You’re on your own most likely. Wall? Fuggitaboutit. What I’m most concerned about is what that group of right wing cabinet members want to privatize, with Social Security and the VA at the top of my list. MJ, what do you think of this Price guy? Not exactly pro women is he.

  11. Cespedes = 4 @ $27.5MM… The monopoly money is active…
    God knows I like Turner and what he has achieved for the Blue, but I got a bad $$$ feeling… Jansen is gone, but this will hurt…

    1. Yep. Again, it’s going to take some serious creative genius to reduce payroll and produce more wins. That’s why I keep saying I have no clue how they intend to get that done. I’m assuming they do it by throwing more mud against the wall and hoping it sticks. Mudcat Toles, Dirtball Beachy, Clay Culberson, Argilaceous Norris…… ok, that’s a stretch, and I’m out of coffee …..

      If we don’t sign any free agents there are only two paths left to take – trade stock or promote stock. I say we circle the wagons and see if the system is as good as they say it is. We’ve already slud from #1 to #8 and it didn’t help. That trade with Oakland sure as Hill didn’t put us over the top so, promote who’s left or trade again. What’s it going to be?

  12. Those who talk politics have no clue. Your all guessing. Did your parents not tell you to not discuss politics or religion unless you want to fight. I am tired of politics. This is a baseball blog.

    Ahh baseball. If Cespedes receives 27.5 million a year, what is Turner and Jansen going to get. That signing sets the bar and it is not good for the Dodgers. The Dodgers have three choices..
    1. Sign free agents at 30 million a year.
    2. Trade the farm kids for veterans.
    3. Blow up the team and play the farm kids.
    One bad trade with Oakland last year is enough for me. We gave up three good farm kids last year for rentals. It looks to me like #3 is the best plan.

    Blow the team up. Agon must go. Ethier, if you can trade him. If not, keep him. It is his last contract year. The hole is at third base. Turner came to us as a part time player. Maybe Segedin can do the same as Turner. Second is the other problem. Sign Utley for one more year for leadership. Let him play half the time and let one of the rookies play the other half time. I am not worried about the bull pen. Someone will come out of that group and become the closer. The strength of our farm is pitching. Turn the kids loose. We will get two more draft choices for Turner and Jansen. Somebody has start saying no to these high salaries.

    1. You criticize those who have questions? But you have a clue? Idaho gets a “F” in education, ranking 46th out of 50. Hell thats worse than California. Maybe you received your education elsewhere? Like South Korea or Finland? Canada maybe? Denmark? Sweden? All top rated in education. What do they have in common? I’ll give you some time to figure that one out. Need a “clue”. Think “money”. Whatever the question, the answer is money.

      Ahh, baseball……. Why must AGon go? That sounds clueless to me. He earns his money. Ethier would earn his money if he played every day. Use some math and figure it out. On a team that platoons, or certainly prefers to platoon at damn near every position, some players, like Ethier, won’t get enough at bats to earn their money. Ethier makes $17.5mm. That’s like 2 WAR. I bet he could do that easy playing every day somewhere. Not in LA.

      “Turn the kids loose”. Agree. “Somebody has to start saying no to these high contracts”. Somebody already has. Think Oakland and Houston, Tampa and Miami. And before you say Stanton, look at his contract. He made $9 million last year. Miami will be saying no very soon.

    2. Idahoal

      Just like I told Rick yesterday, you bring up the politics just by mentioning it.

      Get over it!

      Even Michael and I, who don’t agree about politics, have no problem with each other.

      I like Michael, and thank God not just with politics, but with the Dodgers, we do all have different views, that makes it more fun, and enlighting.

  13. Hawkeyedodger: “They want to privatize SS instead of raising the ridiculous ceiling on how much income is subject to SS tax. Move that up to $200,000 and the program is solvent indefinitely.”

    You have got to be kidding me!! Wasn’t it your Grandpa saying move that SS ceiling up to $5,000 and “solvent indefinitely”? And wasn’t it your Pa saying move that SS ceiling up to $40,000 and “solvent indefinitely”? Now you, $200,000 solvent indefinitely!!

    https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbb.html

    Too funny!! Some people NEVER learn, Nancy Pelosi isn’t the smartest person in the world, neither is Obozo or Crooked Hillary. These people couldn’t run a lemonade stand properly!! WAKE UP!! Ten trillion in debt and counting!! Let me guess, your a government employee, give us MORE MONEY and we will solve the problem indefinitely!! Heard it all before!

    The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so….. Ronald Reagan

    1. Boxout

      You are mentioning the right President, that did use the same trickle down economy.

      That is always the republicans answer, and this new President to be, and his cronies, can make more use of that personally, then any other President and cabinet in history.

    2. I pay on every penny I make. So should others. You can have a cap for businesses but as a society we deemed it important to have social safety nets like SS and Medicare. There’s no good reason for that cap to be where it is.

  14. The Troll awakens.

    It’s the new paradigm, established by our Prezident Erect – it’s called the Markus of Trump-bury Rules – you even look like you’re about to critique me and I’ll kick you in the nuts. It’s only going to get worse.

    The new “Hot Sheet”:

    https://mlbreports.com/tj-surgery/

    A lot of possibilities there…… mine the gurneys FAZ!

    1. Badger: “Until we join the advanced societies on this planet and implement single payer there will be more of this nonsense and bankruptcies from medical costs will continue.”

      Stop getting your info from Michael Moore. He is BSing you. Your probably thinking, bummer, Fidel is dead, but at least now, I can head to Cuba for some “real” healthcare under their single payer system. Try talking to someone who actually lives in one of those “advanced societies”. I have. They tell me their single payer systems are great until you actually get sick!! Truth is, most of the world’s medical innovations come from “capitalistic” America.

      We already have OUR government’s best health care effort, brought to us by the “Slave Party Democrats”. Government mandated Obozocare, a complete joke, but, it aint funny!!!! Example, all males being forced to pay for “pregnancy” coverage. I know, I know, you’ve heard the coverage is really good! Like Pelosi said, they passed it and we saw what was in it. SHIT!!

      The most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help….. Ronald Reagan

      Badger: “Funding is the key. Our priorities are askew. We don’t value education the way other cultures do, and that is why we are way down the list in global education stats.”

      Quit quoting your hero Pelosi!! Open your eyes, investigate and think for yourself (OK, forget that last part). Better yet, I will show you the facts.

      http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/06/26/u-s-spends-more-on-education-gets-less/

      Truth is, there is too many school administrators, they are overpaid and many incompetent. Same with many of the teachers and the UNIONS keep us from firing them. Add to that “government curriculum” (common core) and you have a major clusterf____!!! I was encouraged to see that CA got you the hell away from the children. Good move CA!! Now finish the job by giving parents “SCHOOL CHOICE” and thereby getting all the Badger, Anthony Weiner, Moochelle Obozo and Uncle Ernie types (See the movie “Tommy”) as far away from the children as possible.

        1. Bumsrap, per your article, “Democrats also were split over the slave question, with Southern Democrats arguing that slavery was central to the American national economy and society, and Northern Democrats feeling alienated by the growing Southern Democratic Party platform.”

          So what is your point? Your sheet only went down to your knees, not your ankles? Your pointy hat was cuter than “Southern” democrats? You only wanted really dark negroes as slaves? Your justification of the dims would be funny if the democrat party wasn’t such a scourge on our country’s history. Slavery, KKK, Jim Crow laws, Segregation, Japanese Internment camps, filibustering civil rights legislation, affirmative action, hate crime legislation where only whites are prosecuted. Doesn’t ever stop with this racist political party.

          Very sad, that there are still people associating themselves with the democrat slave party. I would be ashamed to be a democrat!!!! Instead of trying to make excuses for them, you should be ashamed to support them.

          1. Party platforms change over time. Today’s Democratic Party is now more closely associated with the old Northern part of the Party and much of the Democratic Party and Republican Party platforms have flipped flopped over the decades.

            After President Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act most southern white males switched from the Democratic Party to the Republican Party.

            Box, you seem to be able to talk politely about the Dodgers but remain coarse when talking politics. There is no slave party. There are those that want to look down upon minority races but that does not create gain for them or for those that do it.

            President Obama has accomplished so much more than you have with his life and yet you disrespect him. Think about that.

  15. If the Cespedes deal sets the bar, then we will not be getting involved.
    We have no in house answer at 3B, so we have to get creative.
    How about an exchange of bad contracts?
    The Yankees want to get younger and need starting pitching, so how about flipping McCarthy, who pitched well for them in the past, for Headley? He is owed $13 each of two seasons left on his contract, which is reasonable in comparison to what JT will likely get.
    I’m not good at these scenarios, and realise that it would probably take more than McCarthy –
    How about Kazmir as well, or throw in a Kiki or SVS?
    We save money on McCarthy & Kazmir, and are only paying Headley & not the extra JT would demand.
    Headley is solid both sides of the ball, and gives us 2 seasons to sort a long term 3B.

    I know some here don’t like trade proposals, but this is more pragmatic IMO

    1. That is actually a good trade proposal. Don’t know if Yanks would be interested, but, good thinking. Creative and realistic! How about McCarthy or Kazmir (their choice) and Segedin (former Yankee and possible Headley replacement)?

      Acceptable replacement at third, no additional dollars out. Do it FAZ.

    2. Watford

      We definitely need to get rid of those two pitchers, but Headly isn’t that good offensively.

      And about those two pitchers, some here had no problem when the front office signed McCarthy and Kazmir.

      But now they are questioning signing Turner, who actually has played far above what he was making.

      Turner has been our most important bat, in the last two years, and he is a very good defensive player, at third.

      Turner is only projected to make 4 million more a year then Kazmir is making.

      And Kazmir only pitches every five games, unless his chronic condition is bothering him, and then he is sitting on the bench, or walking hitters, and giving up hits, and HRs.

      And now most, who had no problem with the front office signing these two pitchers, are claiming we are crazy for wanting the front office to sign Turner.

      What here sounds crazy?

      1. What is crazy MJ is paying a guy who is 32 years old close to 20 million a year for 4 years and he has only had 1 full season as a regular. That is nuts. Yes, Turner is a good player and has been very valuable. But giving him 20 million a year is as nuts as Ethier’s contract was 6 years ago.

        1. Michael

          Some had no problem with McCarthy’s and Kazmir’s contract, but it was definitely not you.

          I just don’t see it the same way as you.

          I think we are getting a middle of the order hitter, who is also good on defense, that is flexible.

          And I think that his contract won’t be outrageous, especially in a couple of years.

          1. True….BUT………that is not the way this front office thinks. We have seen they have an aversion to big contracts for position players, and giving one to a player over 30 goes against what they are trying to do which is as we all know, get younger and lower payroll. Middle of the order bat or not, they are not going to open the vault for anyone. Injured mediocre pitchers maybe, but an actual productive position player? I doubt it. They will concentrate on staying competitive while not breaking the piggy bank. And according to all I have read, they prefer doing it by trades rather than high priced free agents. That being said, you know they will kick the tires on all of their guys, but the chances of them signing all 3 are really slim. Age and salary unfortunately play into their thinking. And no matter what we fans want or think they should do, they are likely to do exactly the opposite.

        1. Chili

          Maybe, but quite a big difference in actual production, so not quite the same.

          I personally consider Turner he much better bet then those two pitchers.

          And do you really want to see the Dodgers,
          the next two years, without Turners bat in this line up?

          Remember how bad the offense was, when Turner was still recovering from his surgery, and wasn’t hitting, at the begining of the year.

          Do you trust them to plug the hole at third, and to fill the missing offense?

          1. Actual production has yet to be determined. Turner had his best season ever IN HIS CONTRACT YEAR. I’ve seen this act before. It does not bold well for the GM/team that acts upon that one season. Throw in the fact that the post steroid era has not been kind to players approaching their 35th B-day, well this IMO becomes a no brainer. And IF they are truly attempting to get below the luxury tax next year or the year after you cannot continue to pay out big contracts.

            If you(or Mgmt.) thinks Turner is the final piece for getting to the World Series than yes you overpay for it. I do not think that is the case therefore you do not overpay. Anything 4 years or less and $15M/annually or less should be considered. Anything longer or higher should not.

          2. Chili is correct in his thinking. But believing that 15 mil a year and 4 years will not get it done. He rejected a 17.6 million dollar deal. He will want at least that or more for 4 or 5 years.

          3. Who recently had their Career year and got a huge contract??? And what happened to the GM that penned that long term deal?

            To be quite honest, a couple more bad signings by FAZ and those 2 will be wishing they were out of LA. I’m not sure they have the gonads to sign anyone to a large, long term contract.

          4. Michael,

            Just for clarification, Turner does not accept the $17.6M one year deal because he just might not have another great season therefore needs to capitalize on this past season. IMO, $60M/4 years trumps $17.6M/1 year. Therefore not accepting the QO does not set the minimum annual pay expectation. Now, he ‘might’ get more than $17.6M per year over 4, 5 or 6 years. But that will be a bad contract for someone if that happens.

        2. Michael

          That is all true, but I think Turner is the most important of the three.

          And I wouldn’t give Hill three years.

          And Kenley will probably be to high of a contract, but I think he is the best of the three closers.

          And the other closer who threw that pitch, did have a pretty long and successful career.

          And Kenley is only 29.

          1. Chili

            That isn’t the going rate.

            And I am not thinking more then four years.

            Three years would be best.

            And I don’t think Turner is the type of player, that needs some type of motivation, to play hard.

            I think that that is just Turner.

        3. You could be right about Turner, but I think other teams are going to up that quite a bit. Not taking the QO was automatic, but I doubt a 4 year 60 million dollar deal will get it done. Just saying, his value somewhere else is going to be higher than that and the Dodgers would have to get in the 19 mil a year range to keep him….that’s todays baseball economics.

          1. Not saying where he will end up contract wise, therefore it’s not about being right. Was just saying where my limitation would be based on his career body of work. I have no idea where FAZ’s point of no return is at but I dont think its their MO to want to sign him to a long term contract at his age.

    3. Good idea, bad fit. Doubt the Yankees who are trying to get younger in their rotation want not one but two walking dead pitchers. SVS’s power does not play well in Yankee Stadium. Kike they might like and Segedin is a little younger than Headley. But the pitchers ate not what the Yanks are looking for.

    4. Reasonable trade proposals are always welcome. Some will contest your choices but as long as they’re not Star Wars fantasy, they are fine with me. I really love the bad contract trades.

      1. I am thinking my friend that they will attempt one of the Friedman 3 team deals that unloads salary and brings some prospects this way while also taking on someone else’s bad deal. In that sense a trade that includes the Bronx Bombers makes sense. Headley could fill the hole at 3rd for a while if JT moves on. But I think any deal like that will only be on the table after JT makes up his mind. I also read on yardbarker.com that some free agents were leery of coming to LA because of the supposed mandate to reduce debt. That might hamstring the Fazmaster a little.

        1. Michael

          I read sometime ago, that some players don’t want to go to the Dodgers, because they think most players on the Dodgers are platooned.

          And most players don’t want to be platooned.

          1. I read that too. Lasorda hated platooning. He thought that running the same 8 guys out there night after night was best. And for the most part he had the players to do that. Alston on the other hand after the team moved from Brooklyn did not have that strong core group and the Brooklyn guys were aging so he platooned heavily. Especially in 1959. He had Essegian, Demeter, coming off the bench to sub for the Duke and Furillo who spent a lot of the year on the DL, but had maybe the biggest hit in the playoffs when his single up the middle scored Hodges. Wills took over from Zimmer at mid season. Moon came from the Cardinals the winter before for Cimoli and was the regular LF. Roseboro and Piggy shared the catching duties. Larker spelled Hodges at first, and took over the job when Gil went to the Mets in the draft. Ron Fairly was a rookie the next year and so was Frank Howard. Tommy Davis and Willie soon followed and the Brooklyn boys slowly went away except for Koufax and Drysdale

  16. I like the thought W. But…..Headley, a 2.6 WAR player, for two skank pitchers locked into corpulent contracts and two guys we don’t think enough of to actually use everyday, one of whom was injured? I think they would move Headley, but not for boat anchors. Kiké they might be could use. SVS maybe, but what they want is real pitching. What more pitching are you willing to offer other than the McKauztic’s?

    What else sounds crazy MJ? It’s a long list. You already started it. Carry on.

    1. Watford

      I am not good at that either, but that was a conservative deal, if the Yankees would do it, so that is better then I have done.

      And who doesn’t want to try to get rid of McCarthy, most everyone did, the minute they heard about his signing.

      1. Everyone wants McCarthy and Kazmir gone. If they are fans. I see no inclination except the trade last year that did not happen when he was supposed to be shipped to the Brewers as part of the Puig-Braun deal. A lot of money wasted for very little production. Mark will of course argue that the guy has value. If he was a used car you would get the low ball price for him. So unless it is a deal that sends another bad salary our way, do not expect anything earth shattering. That’s the facts. We can dream all we want, with little hope of realization.

    2. I read about that too. AJ is going to be a great coach and I actually believe the guy could manage in the majors some where down the road.

  17. Headley is a good idea if Turner doesn’t stick around. Good defense, better than average stick. I just don’t see any trade value in McKaz. If they can get healthy they may actually win a few for us. But, those contracts are not team friendly, and teams are looking for value. Wood might have value, Stripling and Stewart might, obviously De Leon does. You willing to part with them?

    1. If Turner leaves, and the Dodgers trade one of those prospects for Headley, then it becomes merely trading that prospect for Turner (to some degree). A better way of looking at it.

  18. My birthday today, number76. My, how things have changed over my lifetime… I see we have the usual controversies going, Dodgers, schooling, Medical Cost, politics, and whatever. I suppose dodgerrick is too POed to comment even. Why should there be a limit on Social Security Deductions, there is no limit on Taxable Income? We are aware of the funny money salaries ball players make, but note FAZ himself makes $7MM a year and other executives, both baseball and in other businesses are equally compensated. Add in the money paid to actors, musicians (at least that’s what they call themselves) and other high paid professions. Why should there be any limit on what part of it is taxable for Social Security, there is no limit for the income tax assessment. And I for one, having been poor all my life, I am hugely in favor of escalating tax rates, nobody needs that much money, share with the poor, God will give you credit in the Hereafter . I reserve the right to change my mind on these proposals if I win the lottery….

    1. You’ve been around long enough to remember how this great country operated when things actually got done. Bridges and highways and dams and the like weren’t built by industrialists that were hiding money in tax shelters. Now it’s true some of their grandfathers had slaves, and the railroads were built by very cheap Chinese labor, but we won’t talk about that…….

      Tax everybody the same. Bring the off shore money back here. Those folks with multimillion dollar wages, (eliminate parachutes, especially those for failure) will just have to learn how to get by on a few million less. EVERYONE gets a LIVING wage, not a minimum wage. Do the right thing here. There’s still time.

      Well ok, maybe not in the next 4 years, but, after that.

      Happy Birthday old salt.

          1. Many large corporations get government contracts/work. I know many off the top of my head.

            But isn’t it amazing that when that was put on the table about being eliminated from future contracts they back tracked on their plans.

            One must ask oneself, why hasn’t this been used before?

            THE GUY IS NOT EVEN PRESIDENT YET!

        1. Good for Trump, maybe. Carrier is owned by a defense company who sells 10% of their product to the US government. Maybe Mark will announce he is moving his company to Mexico just to get from Trump whatever he gave to Carrier.

          1. Yeah your right. Nothing should have been done cause someone else will feel bad. That was the Obama way of doing things. Screw the 1,000 American families who are effected by saving their job. They can join the millions of others that have lost their jobs and now need government assistance. Is that your answer?

            Aren’t you the person who criticizes folks that are always critical of everything but never provide solutions. Isn’t that what you just did? Please tell what you would have done.

          2. Chili, its great that Carrier might now stay in the US and, like I said, good for Trump if he found a way to keep them here. We still need to know what was offered. Was it pay for play?

            I hope Trump is good for America. I still worry about him having a trigger finger. I still worry about his social policies. I wait for the answers.

    2. Wondering

      I have a feeling if you won the lottery, you would probably think of people less well off, then you.

      And I hope you have a wonderful Birthday, and a great year!

    3. 1. Happy Birthday, it’s still 11/30 on the west coast so I got it in just in time.

      2. I make every effort to give to the poor. Two bucks in my pocket (typical): one for me one for the person asking for help.

  19. Wondering: “Why should there be any limit on what part of it is taxable for Social Security, there is no limit for the income tax assessment.”

    You are aware, that SS taxes were supposed to be used to fund YOUR social security payments in the future??? So are you saying, yes tax all of somebody’s earned income and give them higher SS payments later? You know, kind of like if you made a contribution into your retirement account, or into an annuity contract, the more you put in the more you can take out later. No, I bet your thinking take someone’s higher SS taxes and give them to somebody else. Am I correct?

    Wondering: “And I for one, having been poor all my life, I am hugely in favor of escalating tax rates, nobody needs that much money, share with the poor, God will give you credit in the Hereafter .”

    Seems like EVERYONE cries poor these days. Billionaires on down. Heck, your financial situation probably makes you look like Donald Trump to half the world’s population. Do you always have money for food? Computer? Warm house? Car? MLB TV? Clean water?

    I do agree, “God will give you credit in the Hereafter” for a generous heart!! But I don’t think, saying rob all the people with more money than me with higher taxes is God’s definition of a generous heart. I don’t need to favor legalized theft by the government to test my generosity.

    Anyways, Happy Birthday, damn that is old!!!

    1. But I still think of others. I was just thinking the other day, what my old pal Boxbiter needs is a therapy pet, so I got on the Internet and found one for you:

      1. Very thoughtful of you, you old fart! But, my Chesapeake Retriever wouldn’t approve and he is the only “therapy pet” I need.

        Besides, I think, with that get-up it looks kind of confused and unstable. Did you find her on Badger’s “gender identity class” alumni association website?

          1. Don’t know MJ. And the problem is after years in Badger’s “gender identity class” it doesn’t either!!

    2. You are incorrect. SS was never supposed fund YOUR payments in the future. It was not suppose to be an investment account nor a sole source of income. It was designed to be a social safety net. It has been a success story that has brought many seniors above the poverty line.

      1. You are correct, the SS taxes don’t go into a “lock box” to fund YOUR future payments. I was only saying, your SS income (used to figure your SS tax) is used to compute the amount of YOUR future SS benefits.

        Probably a good idea to have people pay into a social safety net. But, I welcome a look at it to see if there is a better way of doing it, including privatizing it. As the table below shows, the SS income subject to the tax has gone up 4240% in the last 66 years. Typical for a “good government program”. Sadly, your “$200,000 solvent indefinitely” is nothing but a pipedream!!!

        https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/cbb.html

  20. Happy birthday Wondering. Make a great day!!! I am also 76. It is not old Boxout.

    I should say something to Badger, but I will just consider the source. Merry Christmas Badger.

    1. Idahoal, glad to hear 76 isn’t old!! I am going to be 65 in January and signed up for “Medicare Supplemental Insurance” yesterday. Always thought Medicare was only for old people and was feeling a little down.

      What part of Idaho do you live at? I like to go fishing and play in the Riggins area.

  21. Wondering

    I went into Stater Bros yesterday, and I thought of you, because I saw a lady bring in little fu fu poodle.

    I knew you would be truly upset, that that dog was in a store, that sells food.

    1. I miss Stater Bros. That was where I bought about 95% of my food. They aren’t the biggest chain in SoCal but they were only 2 blocks from my house. We called the area where I lived Little Saigon because we had so many Asian immigrants. Over the years there were two Asian families that lived next door to me and I think they were the nicest neighbors I can remember. What part of Calif do you live in?

          1. I think I have heard that song before, but I think that Jack Benny put Cucamonga on the map.

            And they actually have a street named after Jack Benny in Rancho Cucamonga.

            Anaheim Hills, is just down the freeway, from Corona.

        1. I used to sing the Battle of New Orleans a lot then I would morph into this song. Audiences loved it. And Cucamonga got really famous way before Jack Benny. There would be movies where the train would be leaving the station and all the destinations were announced and Cucamonga was the last one! Rancho is a great place to watch a game. I have been out there to see the Dodgers farm team the Quakes a few times. That’s where I first saw Bellinger play.

    2. Not really mad at the dog, I love dogs. But I expect a little more intelligence in humans and I am disappointed a lot these days…

      1. Wondering

        I thought Luckys was big in Orange County, before Albertsons bought them out.

        I have a Ralph’s about a block away, and Staters is about a mile away.

        I go to both stores, but sometimes it is just easier going to the closest store.

        And it is always the humans!

        1. There was one market in town, I want to say safeway but I’m not sure, where I would always go to buy milk. Honest, it tasted better than the milk from other markets. People are strange, aren’t we? This must be driving Rick bonkers, but what the Hell, if there’s no Dodger news, fill the time with something else…

        2. We have 3 markets in no actually 4 markets in our little town, Safeway, City Market, ( Kroger) Hilltop which is more a butcher shop than market, and Wal-Mart. I shop mostly at City Market because I get gas discounts. There is a Big D market in Florence which is about 5 miles away, but I do not shop there much.. I used Lucky market and Gemco when I lived in California until they both closed.

          1. Michael
            Ralphs gives away gas discounts here too.

            I worked for Gemco,but I worked in the grocery dept, which was really Luckys.

            And once Gemco closed, they sent me to a Lucky store.

            Luckys owned Gemco.

            Gemco had the best prices of the different grocery
            chains.

            Sparky Anderson’s sister, use to come through my line, all the time.

            And she brought her brother through my line, just before he died.

  22. MLBTR projects Paco Rodriguez as a possible non-tender by the Braves and project $900K in arbitration. Would he be worth bringing back?

  23. Boxout, I live in Boise now. I was Supt. Of schools in Grangeville. Riggins was in our school district. I know Riggins well. Do you float the Salmon River and steelhead Fish?

    1. If I’m not intruding on a private conversation…. Idaho is beautiful country, I haven’t spent time there, just driving through to get to Montana and Wyoming for prairie dog shooting, always intended to get to Idaho for rock chucks but never made it. That’s all in the past now.

    2. Exactly what we do, Idahoal, along with camping and scouting out hot springs. What a pristine area. We were up there last July. Went as far north as Moscow.

      The wife and I are seriously thinking of retiring to Idaho. Boise has grown so much, we are looking for a small town. Considering, Marsing, , Star, Cambridge, Counsel, Riggins, Moscow even Grangeville (and others). Any suggestions?

      Hope you didn’t take my school administrators remark above personally, just seen up close, what is going on here in Reno.

  24. Say it al. I’ve got thick skin. Gonna get thicker over the next 48 months. Again, you insult, better be prepared for a counter punch.

    I wonder what was offered in that Carrier deal. The devil is in the details, more so now than ever.

    I’ll be in Corona next week MJ. Wife and I are spending a few days soaking at DHS, and will drive over to some golf course to meet the in-laws for lunch.

    Gender identity class? wtf is that? Did you get a certificate for that catbox?

    Paco? Didn’t know he was still pitching. I’ll check his stats later.

    Food Giant in Los Al. Lucky’s was big in Long Beach.

    1. Badger

      That is funny that you mentioned golfing.

      I grew up in a home on a golf course in
      Corona.

      It is still there, it is called Cresta Verde.

      1. On the border. I lived I Rossmoor. The closest school to me was actually Millikan, in LA County.

        We’re meeting at Eagle Glen CC for lunch.

  25. Boxout, one more thing. Have you explored Medicare Advantage Plans? I took Medicare when I was 65. I do not do that anymore. We have Select Health in Idaho and Utah. Best plan ever. They take the premium that is deducted from my SS for Medicare. I do not pay one more dime for my medical ins. It also includes prescription drugs. Example: I pay 10.00 for regular doctor visits, 45.00 for a specialist and 75 for an emergency visit. That is all you pay. It works when traveling. My wife had an operation in New York. Cost was over 50 thousand. My cost was 888.00. I had to pay the first three days in the hospital. I paid the doctors 000. Look into it.

    1. If Box lives in Nevada, we have a very similar plan by Humana Ins. No doctor copays except $10 for specialists, most prescriptions are free through their own mail order pharmacy on 90 day prescriptions, plus we get a $50 allowance every quarter to order over the counter items from them.

    2. Idahoal, read about the Advantage Plans, but, the “experts” we talked with didn’t like them. I think the major reason was coverage when traveling. Your experience says not a problem. I went with regular Medicare Supplement Plan “G”, $112/month and I do also pay about $130 to the government for medicare part A. Everything paid for except about $170/year deductible. This is much better than what I have had, Obozocare, that was $700/month for me with high deductibles. We thought we would be saving with me going on Medicare, but, wife and two kids Obozocare went up more than $700/month with higher deductibles.

      Thanks for the suggestion!

      1. By the way you reference President Obama I understand why you are looking at Idaho. Great people there but you will also find friends that share common beliefs with you Box.

  26. Boxout, No, education is a mess. You can get rid of the federal dept of education and you would never miss it. Common core is terrible. Blow it up. Let the states be responsible for education. Idaho is a great state to live in.

  27. So, maybe now that Turner could cost upwards of $100 million, the Dodgers would look back at Ryan Braun. Besides, Braun hits righties better than Turner. He also had extensive time in the minors and in his first major league year at 3B, although he wasn’t too hot. Would they dare try him back there? probably not, but LF might work.

    I sure would like to get Villar too, but that might be steep. Still. how about McCarthy and Puig along with Stewart, Calhoun and Verdugo for Braun and Villar?

    It would be a solid lineup hitting wise, if Braun could pay 3B.

    1. Villar 2B
    2. Toles LF
    3. Seager SS
    4. Braun 3B
    5. Gonzo 1B
    6. Thompson RF
    7. Pederson CF
    8. Grandal C

    I am suspicious of Braun at 3B.

      1. MJ:
        I do like that lineup but NOT Braun at 3B. I would also switch Toles and Villar as Villar K’s too much. As far as what Mark suggested we give back in return, I have no problem at all.

  28. Ethier, Gonzales, McCarthy, Kazmir, Ryu for Pujols.

    Pujols owed $140M through 2021.

    Total salaries are close.

    That would spread $140M over 5 years instead of 1.5 years.

    It would give Dodgers a part-time first baseman and a long-time pinch hitter.

    It would give Dodgers somebody to trade to an American League team if they ate part of that contract.

    THAT ONE WAS FOR YOU WONDERING. ENJOY. 🙂

          1. Yeah……borderline insanity is an excuse too. But it is an interesting idea. Pujols can’t run either so there is a trade off there. But he has a lot more power than all those guys and he hits lefty’s. Could teach both 3rd base and 1st base to the kids and it is said he is awesome in the club house. If they throw in Trout, I am down with it.

      1. Says the guy that suggests Braun can play third? I don’t even go that far, close maybe, but not that far.

        For some reason I think Stewart will far exceed his scouting grades. I want to keep him.

  29. Apparently so were the Brewers and moved him to LF.

    I say no more than 3 years 66M for Turner. Love the guy but not at the expense of regretting an albatross contract in 4-5 years.

    Sporting news reported the Dodgers kicking the tires on Verlander. If LA could get both with taking on all the salary, I wouldn’t expect major prospects going over. This one intrigues me.

    I say goodbye to Rich Hill and wish him no blisters as he turns the doorknob to leave. That trade sucked. Didn’t like it then and definitely hate it now. Those three prospects could have helped trade for somebody over the winter.

    Kenley re-signs. I don’t know for how much or long, but he just had a daughter and is roosting in the LA area. His wife may not want to leave. Stay tuned.

    I have only one wish this offseason, get rid of Kike. He regressed this year and he is annoying as sh*t to watch in the dugout with his stupid antics.

    I won’t cry if Puig gets traded… it’s time.

    1. Puig only goes if they get a power hitting RH bat in exchange, or he goes to the White Sox in some sort of deal for Sale. I do not want the Verlander deal because Detroit wants Bellinger. They also want at least 2 of our best pitching prospects. They would throw in Kinsler, but he wants an extension to waive his no trade to the Dodgers. I know Kenley wants a ton of cash. Not sure they want to give him the years….my take, he goes to the Cubs.

      1. Michael–just read your earlier post about Lasorda platooning and loved it–you mentioned some of my favorite low-profile Dodgers like Cimoli, Demeter, Norm Larker (a great three years as a Dodger) and, of course Piggy. Thanks!

        1. I remember Larker well. He almost won a batting title, but lost by 2 percentage points to I think it was Dick Groat of the Pirates. Of course when Wes Parker, who I know, came along, Norm shuffled off to Houston. Alston was actually a master at platooning. That 59 team was a mixture of raw rookies, career minor league guys and aging veterans. One of the guys who made the World Series roster was a pitcher named Chuck Churn. What I could never understand was that every time and still until this day, you see the team picture and Churn’s head is photo chopped on someone else’s body. Strange.

  30. Here are a couple of recent interesting takes:

    1 – http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2678702-biggest-winners-and-losers-of-the-2016-17-mlb-offseasons-1st-month/page/9

    “A roster that produced 91 wins and a fourth straight NL West title in 2016 has some major holes in it. Justin Turner and Chase Utley are absent from their infield. Kenley Jansen is absent from their bullpen. Rich Hill is absent from their starting rotation. Josh Reddick has already been lost from their outfield.

    Normally, it would be fair to sit back and wait for the Dodgers to flex their financial muscles. After all, this is the same team that has spent over $1 billion in payroll since 2013.

    But a recent report from Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times raises questions about the Dodgers’ spending power. According to him, they’re seeking to cut spending as they try to satisfy a mandate from MLB to get their debt under control.”

    2 – http://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-rumors-free-agents-leery-mlb-mandate-reduce-debt/2016/11/30/

    “A major league source indicated that there is now a developing perception among both teams and potential free agents around the game that the Dodgers could be under some financial stress. Kasten reiterated that nothing could be further from the truth.”

    1. Regarding number 2:

      Once you get the cheap label, it’s hard to shake. If this “developing perception” is real, then the only way for Kasten and Guggie bosses to shake the cheap label will be to sign a free agent to a big contract. “See, we’re NOT cheap!” This may be the only way that Jansen or Turner return to LA next year.

      Just a thought.

  31. I would do that trade Mark. Verdugo can be traded. We do not need anymore left handed hitting outfielder. We have two second basemans in the farm that are identical. Trade one. I would throw Kasmir in if they needed another body. Stewart is the only one that bothers me. However, we have a surplus of pitchers in the farm system. Bellinger should be untouchable.

  32. We’re waiting to learn more on how things could be shaking out, and it seems there’s still quite a bit of variability in what form the qualifying offer system will take. One possibility, Rosenthal says, is that wealthy teams (i.e., those that pay into the revenue-sharing system) could sacrifice some draft position (say, five spots) if they sign a QO-declining free agent. Meanwhile, low-revenue organizations could sign such free agents without penalty. (Twitter links: 1; 2; 3; 4; 5.)

  33. Mark

    That is the point.

    Turner isn’t going to get 100 million, because he has to many things working against him.

    He is an older player, and has an injury history, and he has a number one pick attached to him.

    That, along with Turner not hitting lefties well, will bring Turner’s salary down.

    He will get at the most 80 for four years.

    I know three years would be best, but he will still be playing to get another contact, in that fourth year, if he gets four years.

    And where are you getting 100 million?

    I haven’t seen anything close to that.

    1. I think he once made reference to Turner getting Cespede’s size contract, but you are right, he has warts that will keep him from reaching those heights. I think 4/$80MM, maybe 5/$90MM…

  34. Why is Bellinger untouchable? He’s not even a Top 30 prospect. Untouchable is a Top 5, like Seager was.

    Pujols? No. Verlander? Depends. Braun? If we give them Puig + prospects make them take Kazmir.

    Jansen’s wife could be talked into moving to cleave land. Just load a moving van with Benjamins and she will follow it anywhere. And that doesn’t make her unique. It’s ALWAYS about the money.

    1. Bellinger is the closest we have to untouchable because he’s the heir apparent to AGon and can play the outfield. He may or may not be better than Loney, but he’s flashed potential to be a mid-order guy with above-average D. Not quite in the same class as Seager but the return would have to be pretty great IMO.

      1. He has a lot more power than Loney had that is for sure. I do not think he is untouchable, but I do think the FO in general has an aversion to including him in anything less than some sore of block buster trade.

  35. I think some kind of agreement, a new one or agree to continue doing business under the existing one, will happen in the next few hours. And I think there are a bunch of trades and signings almost agreed to that will be announced in the next couple of days. Sort of like a dam breaking…

  36. On an earlier post where I was commenting on the 1959 Champs I was explaining about the picture of Chuck Churn being superimposed on another player. It turns out that Larry Sherry was also superimposed in the photo. His head is on Art Fowlers body. Fowler was traded during the season. I did not recognize the player who Churn’s head was placed on.

    1. Churn is the 2nd player on the right in the first row….Sherry is the 3rd from the left in the second row. Not really clear in this shot. The real photo is below.

  37. Anybody can play first base. Anybody but Shorty Calhoun. If Bellinger climbs into the Top 10 next year, I might consider him untradable, unless it’s for somebody really good. I’d trade Kershaw in the right deal. But I am sill in a no-trade position. As long as I keep hearing this payroll tax business I just don’t see how we cut costs and beat the Cubs/Nats/gints/Cards at the same time. You want to do both we are going to need every one of those guys in the Top 100 and they all better be damn good or we are going to come up short. FAZ hasn’t convinced me, but I’m giving them the benefit of doubt because of what looks like an impossible task – cut costs and compete for a Championship at the same time.

    1. In 2018 Diaz, Buehler and Alvarez could also all be ready. They join Bellinger, De Leon and Urias, we sign a couple of those star free agents that will be on the market and we could be the Cubs.

      1. Badger

        Bellinger is much more athletic then most first base men.

        He has played centerfield a few times this year.

        I’m concerned with his big swing, but he is the prospect that the teams ask for first.

        And some say he is like Corey in the way he acts, and plays the game.

    2. Badger

      As you know they can back load a contract, for someone like Turner.

      And maybe they can get rid of one of those pitchers, since this is the worse market for starting pitchers in some time.

      I was suprised the Brewers were willing to take McCarthy, at the trade deadline.

      I am afraid if we don’t get rid of these two pitchers this year, we will be stuck with them.

      1. Truth be known, the Brewers never wanted McCarthy. Ever heard of ‘CYA’. That’s all that was. When they knew a deal would not transpire at the deadline for Braun in an effort of showing McCarthy has/had value they made sure his name was being mentioned in the possible (but never was going to happen) trade deal. CYA, but you have to take off the Dodger Blue glasses to see it.

      1. For what? FAZ to get it right? I don’t have much of a say in that.

        I’ve read all the press on Bellinger. I’ve been around long enough to know better than to believe hype. Seager was the top prospect in all of baseball. That’s an easier sell to believe. Right now there are 30 prospects rated higher than Bellinger. Not all of them will be sure things. You just never know.

        1. Exactly. It’s a numbers game. Most will not live up to potential/expectations and with pitchers, never know when the arm might have a blow out. IMO, it is better to stock pile position players and trade for or sign ‘proven quality’ pitchers.

  38. New agreement.
    7:53pm: The luxury tax threshold will rise from $189MM to around $195MM in the 2017 season, Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports (Twitter links). It’s then expected to reach between $210MM and $215MM over the five-year span. Additionally, the CBA will impose a sixty to seventy percent penalty for teams that spend well above the luxury tax line — i.e., payrolls north of $250MM.

    I think everything else stayed as it was…

    1. Or maybe not….

      The qualifying offer system has been another area of some uncertainty, and it seems there are some final details to work through there. A source tells Rosenthal (via Twitter) that the sides are “trying to shuffle around [the] loss of [a] first[-round] pick with [a] player getting [a] deal of $50MM or more.” While it’s a bit difficult to know just what that means, it sounds as if draft compensation could be tied to the ultimate price the market puts on a player. Meanwhile, Jon Morosi of MLB Network tweets that first-rounders won’t be sacrificed in signings of QO-declining players, which would seem to suggest a somewhat different approach.

    1. Wondering

      That isn’t fair for the players.

      Just like it wasn’t fair to attach number one draft picks to players, that are not traded at the trade deadline, in there last contract year.

      1. It really isn’t finalized yet. Here’s the latest iteration. There may be changes later/

        A source tells Rosenthal (via Twitter) that the sides are “trying to shuffle around [the] loss of [a] first[-round] pick with [a] player getting [a] deal of $50MM or more.” While it’s a bit difficult to know just what that means, it sounds as if draft compensation could be tied to the ultimate price the market puts on a player.
        Alternative reports suggest more of a tweak to the current system. First-rounders won’t be sacrificed in signings of QO-declining players, Jon Morosi of MLB Network tweets. These changes will not apply until the following offseason, Morosi notes on Twitter. All teams will stand to sacrifice draft picks if they sign players who declined qualifying offers, Stark tweets, but at varying levels. Organizations that are over the luxury tax line will punt a second and a fifth-round choice, while those who are under the threshold would stand to sacrifice a third-rounder. That would represent a rather monumental change to the qualifying offer system, as only a few organizations in any given year would be at risk of sacrificing a pick. It would also come with some interesting practical impacts, as teams might conceivably seek to drop under the luxury tax line to avoid the necessity of draft compensation, though of course that won’t be of nearly as much importance if first-round picks are in fact taken off the table.

  39. For some time I was under the misguided opinion that at least some of the tax collected was distributed to the smaller market teams. Why else would they call it a “competitive balance” tax. That’s how it’s done in the NBA. Well, not in MLB. It’s used to further players benefits, as if they needed any.

    This whole thing smells wrong to me. Add it to the list. Clearly I don’t understand what is really going on – everywhere I look. Frankly I’m losing interest in most all of this bullsh*t. “A giant vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity”. Matt Taibbi recently in Rolling Stone, referring to Goldman Sachs succubuses showing up everywhere. The description sums it all up for me. My gag meter has redlined.

      1. “Harsh, repugnant, shocking and repulsive” – one judge’s opinion. Mine as well.

        Mnuchin – “vulture capitalist”. “Mnuchin-and-Ross Fuck You America” t-shirts now on sale. I’m not kidding.

  40. You know Miss MJ I’m not too smart. But I do notice you constantly knocking and bemoaning whatever PET does. You especially complain about him picking successful persons to fill important positions. These are people I don’t know too much about and but I am quite certain you don’t KNOW anything about them either.

    Would you rather have him pick unsuccessful people who wouldn’t know how to do what needs to be done?

    Why don’t you put your picks out there since you like to give the appearance that you know better and his picks are all bad? You are constantly jumping off of the baseball agenda and onto the political agenda so let’s hear who you like better, just like you do with position players…otherwise, to use one of our beloved Badger’s occasional comments, STFU.

    1. “otherwise, to use one of our beloved Badger’s occasional comments, STFU.”
      You sound like someone who was just elected president.

      1. Well, free speech hasn’t been eliminated. But it must be on the list somewhere.

        None of us “know” these people, but they are in their actions public figures. Read up. They may be your kinda folks. They most definitely are not mine. And if Palin is selected as head of the VA there will be a revolt. And I will join it.

        As for the new CBA, I have no idea what it will mean. This is not a collective bargaining agreement of steel workers, this is a small group of millionaires on one side and a minute group of billionaires on the other. The ones who will pay for ALL of it are the fans. The way I feel today? I’m about done with it. But, when Spring Training rolls around I imagine I’ll be there. Tim owes me a meal at the eatery of my choice so I’m perusing Scottsdale restaurants. Tim is a finance guy so this is gonna cost him. Maybe we can take in a Dodger dback scrimmage over at the Salt River compound on that day. Tim has been keeping a low profile, but he’ll check in with me every now and then. Good man. Same for TO Dave.

        Time for coffee.

    2. Double digit mind

      I am quite sure you are smart, or you wouldn’t go by the moniker you go by.

      And actually Badger brought this up, I didn’t, but I trust Badger.

      So I did get informed about this person Badger was talking about.

      Maybe you should too.

  41. Well the good news is that it will still cost other teams a 1st Rd pick for JT and KJ. Also a few extra dollars added to the luxury threshold. Both good for Dodgers this year.

    1. Hawkeye

      That is what I have been preaching about.

      The Dodgers actually have somewhat of an advantage when it comes to Turner and Kenley, because of those number one draft picks.

      1. That decision will affect September games with those teams that have locked up playoff spots will have to try to keep winning instead of resting players and letting call-ups get some playing time.

        Dodger signing Predictions:
        Hill–2 year $24M plus incentives to allow him to make up to $36M over 2 years

        Turner–4 year $55M guarantee plus incentives–$20M, $15M, $10M, $10M with opt out after 2 years–incentives would allow him to earn up to $20M/year

        Jansen–4 years $60M plus incentives to allow him to make $80M max over 4 years.

        1. Does anyone other than Maeda sign incentive contracts anymore? There is always a team desperate enough to sign veterans with “contract year” numbers to asinine contracts. Why wouldn’t Turner look for one of those? I would. Hell, anybody would. And everybody does.

          1. I love incentives. A player gets base salary large enough to set themselves up for life financially and the possibility of making much more if they pitch enough innings, or get enough plate appearances, or have enough holds or saves opportunities.

        2. Bum

          Good effort!

          Isn’t terrible that we think a closer is more important then an everyday player now, or do we?

          Bum I’m sure it is Kenley’s age, and competition that caused you to predict that last figure.

  42. Doubledigitmind: “You know Miss MJ I’m not too smart. But I do notice you constantly knocking and bemoaning whatever PET does. You especially complain about him picking successful persons to fill important positions. These are people I don’t know too much about and but I am quite certain you don’t KNOW anything about them either. Would you rather have him pick unsuccessful people who wouldn’t know how to do what needs to be done?”

    Welcome aboard Doubledigitmind! You are new here, I will bring you up to speed. Yes, MJ and others here prefer and pick incompetent crooked politicians, people who enrich themselves at the public trough. You know the “smartest” people in the world types like Obozo and Crooked Hillary. They never ask how these people became multimillionaires without ever having had a REAL job!! Any smart people who worked in private industry to honestly make their millions are despised. You don’t have to ask who she prefers, I think we can safely surmise that her new favorite would be LIAWATHA, Elizabeth Warren, the “Indian Social Warrior”. Again Welcome Aboard!!

    Badger: “Well, free speech hasn’t been eliminated. But it must be on the list somewhere.”

    Yeah, at DNC Headquarters. Didn’t you love how they cheated to silence Bernie?

    Badger: “If Palin is selected as head of the VA there will be a revolt. And I will join it.”

    Wonderful choice!! You at a revolt? SCARRRRRY!! Don’t forget to pack extra “Depends”.

    1. Depends?

      Tell you what cat box, why don’t you plan to join Tim and I for lunch next Spring. Maybe if we met face to face we could work this out.

    2. I’m not new here Mr. Boxout, I predate you at LADodgerTalk by many years. I just only comment rarely. I’m not smart enough to have too much to say.

      I know that you try to defend the right to the majority left herein, but you too go off the reservation of Dodger baseball too often as well so I guess the same applies to you Mr. Boxout…Start Talking Faster Underdog, as long as it’s Dodgers baseball.

      1. Box doesn’t talk baseball. He, or she, is by definition a troll and knows nothing about the game. He, or she, is here for one reason – to cause the degeneration of discourse.

    3. Boxout

      Hasn’t anybody told you that when you call others by names like you do, that takes away from any argument, you are trying to make.

  43. Flash!!! New CBA outlaws snuff!!! (Only for new players)

    Well, a little CPR…
    You ever notice, sometimes when two groups are negotiating, it’s kinda hard to figure out what they were thinking. The latest CBA for instance.
    The debate about Compensation Draft Picks makes sense, the players don’t want anything inhibiting their Free Agency and costing them money. Understandable. The owners want to discourage players from seeking Free Agency. Understandable.
    Luxery Tax Threshold. Why is this even on the docket? The players don’t like it, wish they’d never heard of it. The owners debate it but really only among themselves, the players don’t even have a dog in that fight. The players would much rather have a Minimum Payroll Threshold, say $130MM because there are several clubs that don’t spend near that much. Why is that involved with the CBA?
    Roster size. Certainly the players should endorse a roster increase. Even if it’s only one player per team, that means 30 more players making at least minimum salary. Yet the Players Association didn’t really seem interested in this. For the owners, it’s just another half million or so in salary, chicken feed, which could result in a couple more wins over the season, or save an injury, well worth the money. Yet the owners too weren’t interested. I guess a penny saved is a penny earned…

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