Perhaps that’s going a little far, after this Cuban second baseman is rated much higher than Guerrero was. Still the similarities are there. Jesse Sanchez is reporting that the Dodgers are nearing agreement with Cuban second baseman Jose Miguel Fernandez. The 28-year old infielder officially left Cuba in 2015 and was granted free agent status. The Dodgers signing unknown Cubans is nothing new to any of us. The Dodgers have spent ungodly amounts of cash on unproven Cubans that never even sniffed the majors. A few did appear in the majors, like Alexander Guerrero, and Erisbel Arruebarrena for example, but those were the only Cubans that ever got to the Major league level in Dodger blue. None of them had any success like Yasiel Puig has had.
Sources: Veteran Cuban INF Jose Miguel Fernandez nearing a Minor League deal with the #Dodgers. He defected from Cuba in December of 2015.
— Jesse Sanchez (@JesseSanchezMLB) January 8, 2017
This particular Cuban player seems to be somewhat familiar. Perhaps we can compare him to Alexander Guerrero? Fernandez like Guerrero has been ranked as a strong hitter with good contact skills. Although Guerrero never had good plate discipline, and Fernandez appears to be more of a contact hitter. Like Guerrero, his fielding and base running appear to be below average. According to Baseball America’s Ben Badler he ranked as the third best Cuban prospect on the market.
Fernandez batted .319/.403/.423 with Cuba’s Serie Nacional league. He collected 263 walks and struck out just 123 times, suggesting the scouts are right about his great plate discipline. Fernandez hit 37 home runs in his 8 seasons in Cuba, and finished with an .826 OPS.
Like Guerrero and other Cubans, he hasn’t played in over two years because of a failed attempt at defecting. Sound familiar? Guerrero hadn’t played in over a year when the Dodgers first signed him as well and had to start his career in the minor leagues. It appears this is where Fernandez would start provided he does sign with the Dodgers.
It’s hard to tell if any of these Cubans are major league caliber or not. Many of the Cuban players are multi-talented, but some never seem to pan out. Sometimes they’ve been off the field too long because they were unable to cross the border into the United States.
Fernandez had gotten the rave reviews from scouts, so perhaps he could become an option to play second base the way Guerrero did for the Dodgers in 2015. The Dodgers signed Guerrero to a 25 million dollar contract. Fernandez is exempt from the international bonus pool limitations because of his age. The Dodgers have nobody to play second base after trading Howie Kendrick to the Phillies earlier this winter, and the rest of the in-house options like Kike Hernandez, Chris Taylor, and Micah Johnson all stink.
159 thoughts on “Dodgers Adding Another Cuban: Is Jose Miguel Fernandez The Next Alexander Guerrero?”
Rants and Raves:
1. Fernandez is LH – I sure hope he has reverse splits. He is not fast or quick and an average fielder. Maybe he’s just a “gamer” – at least he better be!
2. Suddenly, do the Twins lose a little traction against the Dodgers in the Dozier deal?
3. I find the commentary humorous every time the Dodgers sign a AAAA player with a connection to the Rays or A’s. “Another A’s reject.” These guys are not for the BIG team – they are organizational depth for AA and AAA. EVERY TEAM SIGNS THESE TYPES OF GUYS AT THIS TIME EVERY YEAR. Geeeeezzzzzzz!
4. You can find someone to agree with any narrative you are inclined to concoct, but Cody Bellinger continues to make adjustments at every level. He is now 21, but let’s not forget that he started at 17. He had almost 200 PA’s at 17 in the Rookie League. His BA was .210, but his OB% was .340. He has always had a good eye. At 18, he hit .312 in the Rookie Leagues with a .352 OB%, but the power wasn’t there. At 19 he advanced to High A and blasted 30 HR while hitting .264 with a .336 OB%. At 20, he moved to AA and AAA (just a sip of coffee) and hit 26 HR with a .271 BA and .365 OB%. That is the same type of progress Corey Seager made. You can see it year after year. I told you Seager was ready a year and a half ago and I am saying the same thing about Bellinger. The prudent thing is to have him start at AAA, but if he’s doing well and someone needs a 1B, I would not hesitate. As good as Adrian is with the glove, Cody is better!
5. Players figure it out at different rates. Brian Dozier was in the minor leagues for 5 years and hit 15 HR with a .246 BA. Then he went to the majors and started figuring it out. I think he is going to be Jose Bautista-esque.
It will be interesting if Bellinger excels in Oklahoma.
The key words in your post, is that you wouldn’t hesitate to make that move.
This front office probaby doesn’t see it that way.
Your a little bias for both, but in different ways.
What Corey did, is pretty hard to do!
So, 50 home runs for Dozier and 5 Gold Gloves and a Seager start for Bellinger.
I find it humorous every time people make comparisons and predictions such as these.
Who knows about this Cuban. I have doubts. We’re still waiting for Hector Olivera to earn the $64.5 million thrown at him.
I would start the season with this lineup against righties:
And against lefties:
Spring training performance could change that but otherwise I begin the season with Toles in Oklahoma and Ethier on the bench unless he pushes Puig off the lineup against righties in the Spring.
McCarthy/Kazmir/Ryu — Health decides which one
Urias, Stewart/De Leon –Spring training decides which one.
Given that Toles and Ethier and SVS can play RF I would be willing to include Puig along with De Leon for Villar to start that conversation with the Brewers. Getting Villar would flip the #8 with the #1 hitters in the lineup.
He looks much slimmer in these videos than he does now.
The guy is a little chubbier these days. I wonder how much we are paying.
And is he just trade
From what I read, most do think he is just depth, because his bonus signing was only 200 thousand dollars.
How much did this guy cost? Will something now be done with the other half dozen middle infielders stacked up? Looks like a throw a handful of darts at the board policy to me.
I think we all like Bellinger. But he has some steps left before he’s ready to take over for AGon. Unless Adrian wants to finish his career in his home town, he’s our first baseman for two more years. That’s my opinion anyway.
And Dozier? If we trade for him now? Wtf?! Another second baseman in the barn?
Let’s say Rizzo of the Cubs tears his ACL in June. The Dodgers send A-Gon to the Cubs and pay half his salary and up comes Bellinger.
… or maybe the Cubs put Schwarber at 1B?
You get my drift!
Write this down: A-Gon and Andre are both tradable as is Kaz.. if the Dodgers pay half their salaries. The Dodgers could get close the $30 million in Salary Relief by trading those three. If we got Dozier, I would be TOTALLY down with trading all three. If we did that, we could also get Braun and we would be a better team with this lineup:
1. Toles/Thompson RF
2. Seager SS
3. Braun LF
4. Pederson CF (I did that so I can get Bum off my back)
5. Dozier 2B
6. Turner 3B
7. Grandal C
8. Bellinger 1B
I am tired of waiting for Puig…
I must admit, I get tired waiting for Puig too, and I get even more tired of him, when he pulls his stunts, to get attention.
And I do think we need a hitter like Braun, but the Brewers would have to take one of Kazmir, or McCarthy, to off set Braun’s contract.
The bad part with Braun, is that he would be taking a outfield position, away from one of our young kids.
I wish we could get the bat we need at second, that would be a better fit.
I don’t think Dozier is that bat we need.
I think we need a more complete hitter, like Kinsler is.
But he wants an extension, and there doesn’t seem to be that type of second baseman, on the market right now.
Say what you will about conjectures regarding new parks and new pitchers, the undeniable fact to me is that Dozier’s the perfect fit.
Power bat. Stretches the line-up. Helps offset Grandal, Gonzalez and even Pederson’s slumps. Plays good defense. he takes longish at-bats, walks a fair amoun tand is a good base runner who doesn’t clog the bases for those behind him. Also he hasn’t been disabled, only a handful of games with injuries and best of all he doesn’t platoon, which helps ease the roster crunch.
Two years left at a reasonable rate.
Still relatively young.
If the team can get him for JDL and a spare prospect, it’s really a no-brainer.
First I wouldn’t consider any slump that Agone is in, to Grandal and Joc.
And Dozier doesn’t help, if his slump is at the same time, as Joc and Grandal, are in a slump.
And those two hitters, don’t hit consistently enough, to make up for each other, to much.
I guess the fact that Dozier is the type of hitter, that is streaky, and has months, where he just isn’t hitting, is a scary trade, especially since we would only have him for two years.
It isn’t a conjecture that last year, Dodger stadium was the hardest stadium, to hit a HR at.
That is an actual fact.
It’s conjecture to theorize how Dozier will perform in Dodger Stadium.
And of course, Dozier won’t offset a slump by other players if he is slumping himself! You have to think those concurrent events will be rare and short-lived, right?
Of course the hitters will cover for one another. That’s what line-up depth is. The more good hitters you have, the more opportunity you have for success when one or two is in a cold spell. Are we really arguing this?
Puig is 26. You’re tired of waiting? He’s put up 12.7 WAR for $24.5 million. You know what I’m tired of? Guys like McCarthy, Kazmir, Anderson, Latos – a string of broken down overpaid hamburgers. I’ll take young, athletic cost effective talent any day.
Toles/Thompson platoon leading off looks like a combo of .320 OBP to me. Neither may make the team out of Spring Training. Ethier is a better hitter than either of them and carries a career .359 OBP into the season, .382 against RH pitching. He would be a better leadoff hitter than those guys.
Braun and Dozier. I don’t know. If that was going to happen……..
Puig has not been any good since 2014. The last 2 seasons he has combined for 2.5 WAR. He cost $10MM for those 2 seasons and is going to cost $6.5MM in ’17 and $7.5MM in ’18.
Thanks Mark. Good things happen for those that work hard, and i did regarding you and Joc.
I thought players figured things out at different times. Puig is coming into his peak years.
The funny part about this signing, is that the scouts actually describe Fernandez, how you describe Calhoun.
And I am talking about his lower half.
You might be right. I have not seen him.
How can anyone be upset with this? I mean they learned from Olivera. $200,000 signing bonus. He’s organizational depth. What’s the big deal?
He could race Willie.
Just read a good write up and saw some more video at DD. He looked very different there. $200k? That’s nothing. How much more? I have no problem with this. Now we have 6 second basemen. One of them has to stand out, right?
He’s organizational depth on an organization chock full of left-hand hitting infielders with hands of stone. Either they plan to shop him to an AL team or they’re going to trade Calhoun.
You might be right about that!
What about Jose Bautista? Weren’t there rumors last month about the Dodgers showing interest?
(BTW, not to play 2B – just a general question about that rumor since Jose is obviously an outfielder. )
The article I read said that Fernandez has been playing 3B in winter ball. As it’s a minor league deal nothings hurt if he doesn’t amount to anything.
Here is MLB Prospect Watch’s assessment of Calhoun’s defense (it was complimentary of his bat):
“Calhoun’s bat allows him to profile at multiple positions, which helps his cause because he’s unlikely to stick at second base after making 18 errors in 65 games there during his debut. He lacks middle-infield actions and has fringy speed and arm strength, though he does work hard on his defense. He played the outfield and third base at Yavapai and probably fits best in left field.”
Yavapai? That’s Badger’s territory. He must have at least heard of the guy.
I live in north Yavapai County. The school is in Prescott. Never heard of him.
I think Calhoun can play second base. He’s been working on it. Give him a chance. He’s only played 200 games in the minors and he’s improved defensively at every level.
What I read about Calhoun, is that is bat, will play anywhere on the field.
And I did read that he is a quick learner, and has improved every year.
And right now Calhoun is just working on his defense in the off season, including on improving his first step.
Calhoun seems much more interesting then Fernandez does, because Calhoun is younger, and he has more power.
Calhoun is a hitter that is not afraid to be up, in clutch situations either.
Snider might be right about the front office signing Fernandez, to fill in for a prospect, they are thinking about trading.
I hope it isn’t Calhoun.
Scott – “stinks”? These guys are in the big leagues. I don’t think any of them deserve THAT description. Have we seen enough of Johnson to have given up on him yet?
Man, I HATE agreeing but I’m tired of waiting on Puig too. Wasn’t it Branch Rickey that said its better to get rid of a player a year too soon than a year too late? As much as I like AGon, Puig, and Ethier, this applies to them all. Father Time is undefeated.
In keeping with “hope-for-the-best but plan -for-the-worst” there’s not a thing wrong with signing Fernandez. Competition makes the best rise to the top.
Write this down – Puig – 20 home runs 70 runs 70 ribbies and 3 WAR.
Ok, you don’t have to write it down. If he doesn’t make it somebody here will remind me of it.
Here’s another prediction – Kazmir, McCarthy and Hill will combine for less than 16 wins and 300 innings, all for only about $43 million. FAZonomics.
Is Austin Barnes still in the mix?
I like your prediction about the 3 sore-armed pitchers better than your prediction on Puig.
I’ll take the over on both predictions.
Dodgers getting a scouting guy from Toronto (previously the employer of Alex Anthopoulos :
“Expect the @Dodgers to add Brian Parker to their deep scouting staff soon. Ex-Expos, Nats & Jays scout, most recently TOR scouting director”
How has he done? “During his time leading the Blue Jays’ drafts, Parker’s notable selections include Matt Boyd (sixth round in 2013), Kendall Graveman (eighth round in 2013) and Jeff Hoffman (No. 9 overall in 2014). Parker’s blemishes include failing to sign 2013 first-rounder Phil Bickford and 2015 second-rounder Brady Singer.”
Just another name on the front office payroll. They get rid of a few of the front office guys and they could lower the teams debt!
Balance. Its important. If a team has 8 second basemen they need 8 Assistant GMs. I wonder how many of the Ass’t GMs swing from the left
It didn’t sound like a good resume to me, either.
Another Cuban? Are the suits trying to make up for the immigration policy of the next administration? Man, they have done their share. Stupid. Just another name to be added to the list of Cuban failures. At least this one doesn’t have much expectation attached to it. The Cuban bar, at this point, is so low that 66 can crawl over it. Don’t forget to lower the bar for 66 so that expectations for him can be reached. Finally. I still say: DeLeon, Kazmir, McCarthy to the Twins with the team eating 2/3 of salaries. Or DeLeon and Wood straight up.
The last time I knew the Twins were in rebuild mode. They are not competing with the likes of Detroit, Cleveland and Kansas City in their division. Hence, why the White Sox are doing the same. It’s musical chairs. Time for Cleveland and KC to have a go at the division for 2-4 years then it’s time to rotate. THEREFORE, the Twins would not take Kazmir or McCarthy IF the Dodgers paid 100% of their salaries. They want young prospects. Either 2 top prospects for Dozier or 1 Top and 2 other minor prospects. Puig & JDL would probably get it done. Make that trade for Dozier and then sign Bautista. That’s all they need to do. Well address their starting pitching at some point.
… except I am OK with the starting pitching.
Bautista isn’t going to be any help against lefties.
He hit 220 against lefties last year, and he only hit five of his 22 HRs, off lefties last year.
And he isn’t going to accept, being platooned.
Bautista had his worse season in awhile last year. Some felt like he was trying to do too much with it being his contract year. Most baseball people think he still has a couple of good years left. I would be very surprised if Bautista’s career numbers vs. lefties is equivalent to what it was last year.
The talk right now is $20M per year for 3 years and you have Bautista. Trading Puig and JDL gets Dozier. Opens an OF spot of which Bautista would step right in. Those 2 alone would fix the leftie issue AND improve the team against righties.
Although Puig bothers me some times, two years of Dozier isn’t worth Puig and JDL to me.
Sorry I don’t want another all or nothing hitter, in this line up.
We need a better hitter.
Bautista was hurt I believe a couple times last year, and his defense has went down.
We don’t need anymore players, that have troubles, hitting above 250.
There’s nothing against signing Dozier after his 2 years is up. IF he performs very well, the Dodgers will benefit greatly from that and I would assume would do what it took to sign him. If he doesn’t perform at a high level than he will be much cheaper IF they wanted to resign him. A ‘2 year rental’ is not the same as trading for someone in their contract season that EVERYONE knows is going to explore the market. Dozier has a lot of reasons to perform well at a relatively inexpensive cost.
That is what the Parrot got from the Indians, and he is worth more then Bautista.
Because he is a little younger, and he has had, better numbers, in the last couple of years..
66 ain’t what it used to be. Its a slow drive now from LA to Chicago.
Considering the success, or lack of it, with regards to signing Cuban players, I do not look at this as a major move. The guy screams average in all aspects of the game. It is a minor league deal, so I doubt it impacts the Dozier talks at all. The one thing that is disturbing is that these guys seem not to learn from their gaffs. They keep signing fringe players. Geltz, Wilson and now this guy. I think they are trying to find lightning in a bottle. They are more likely to find rotting fruit in the fridge.
Rotting fruit – funny!
True. But to say it gets you labeled “FAZ Basher”. We’re going to have to fail a couple more years before Guggenheim figures it out.
I suppose we fans see it as a fail because the team hasn’t won a world series in a quite a while and in hindsight we can see the bad player personnel moves the FO has made. Of course, if they happen to win a WS then the moves made by the front office will be genius, again in hindsight.
My main point though is this. I doubt if Guggenheim thinks it is a fail, whether they win the WS or not. No doubt they would like to win a WS but I suspect they base their version of “fail” on different criteria than us fans. While A or Z could leave via promotions to other teams within a year or two I expect that Friedman will be with us for the long haul.
I think they keep squeezing lemons praying for something sweet in the glass. I also think they know they were handed a team close to the top and only have so many years of vintage Kershaw left. Better make some hay while the sun is shining.
At $7.5M per year, Friedman will stay as long as they want him to. The question/issue becomes, how long do you pay a President of Baseball Operations that type of money unless they win a WS or at a minimum get to the WS a time or two.
As Badger pointed out, this particular FO inherited a very good team, 2 time NL West Champs with 2 aces and most everyone that has been a major contributor the past 2 seasons were inherited as well. Same as most of the farm products, (i.e. Seager, Pederson, Urias, Deleon, Holmes, Bellinger, Verdugo, etc.).
The payroll went up the first year and has remained at the highest level in all of baseball and probably will be again for the 3rd straight year. The Dodgers have had a 4 year window (soon to be 5) and like others on here, I’m concern that window could be lowering. Sure there are a plethora of young players in the wings but are they Kershaw, Grienke, Jansen, Gonzalez, Ramirez, Turner, Gordon, Kemp and Ethier ‘in their primes’ type of talent AND will they surpass the team accomplishments obtained by the above mentioned?
“The question/issue becomes, how long do you pay a President of Baseball Operations that type of money unless they win a WS or at a minimum get to the WS a time or two.”
That is a fair question and one I would be asking if I were the one paying the tab.
But to my point, I expect that Guggenheim partners have other criteria by which they decide “fail”. As long as that criteria is met, WS or not, Friedman will be the MIC of baseball ops.
He probably will. Guggenheim thinks the guy is brilliant.
Wondering my friend, I could care less if they label me a FAZ basher. To me, and this is my opinion, the only really smart moves he has mad is not to trade the kids. His trades for the most part have been very mediocre, Mark’s love of Grandal not withstanding, and they have failed miserably when it has come down to that one major piece needed for a championship run. They knew last year they were lousy against LHP, what did they trade for? A pitcher on the DL and another LH bat in the OF. The year before they passed up Hamels and he would have made a HUGE difference in the playoffs and last season. Granted the price was probably high, just how high no one here knows. Most of their trades have been with the A’s and the Ray’s. Most of the DFA’d players that have signed have been from one of those two teams and except for maybe a few games, not one of them panned out. Bud Norris? Please, he has been mediocre for years. Their free agent signings are lousy. I just think for a couple of so called genius’s they could have done better.
Every team signs those kinds of players this time of year. Look at the transactions. There are literally hundreds of these deals. They are not for the BIG team – they are depth for the minors. No more – no less! To bash FAZ for signing those players shows a complete lack of understanding why they were signed.
Agree. We originally signed Justin Turner on Feb 6th, 2014. Isn’t that the definition of an organizational/depth/lighting in a bottle signing? The FO wasn’t expecting to resign him a couple years later for 15+ million a year. That’s how a lot of relievers are found.
It might be, but Ned is the one who signed Turner.
I know. Whether it was Colletti or FAZ wasn’t the point.
Yes, exactly right. I remember thinking “you got to be kidding me, what a crummy signing” when Turner was signed. “Why do we want the Mets castoffs, especially one who doesn’t hustle?”
The two posts above and the Turner signing make me realize that I do the same thing everyday in the market. I never really compared the two before but I look for other people’s castoffs of quality companies. Sometimes they don’t work out, often they do. Thanks for helping to enlighten me…it will be easier to accept what appears to be so many “depth” signings in the future.
Who ever said that Turner doesn’t hustle?
On the MLB show, MLB now, they had two writers on the program, who cover the Mets, and one of these writers, put in a good word for Turner today.
And he said, that Turner always played hard, when he was with the Mets!
And that is why he was happy to see, Turner get that contract.
I’ve seen no sign of not hustling by Turner, in fact quite the opposite. However, when he was released by the Mets, among other things, one of the mentions as to why he was released was a lack of hustle all the time. Part of the reason the Dodgers had the op to make another crummy “depth” signing. This one “Turner’ed” out good.
There is no lack of understanding at all. I know exactly what kind of deals that they are. They are minor league signings, depth as it were. None of those guys is expected to have a huge impact on the team. Bash FAZ? Sure, why not. Every team makes those kinds of signings, just look at the Pirates transaction list for today. You will see close to 20 moves like that. What I am saying is that FAZ keeps signing guys hoping for, like all management types, that one off the radar signing that makes you look like a genius. Hey they did not want the guy, we got him for a song and look what he did! Amazing! That is his job, and he does it the only way he knows best. And even after several failed Cuban’s brought to the team, he keeps on trying for that one guy. They are fodder, nothing more. Wilson is insurance in case Grandal goes down, even a blind man could see that. He is a plus defender with a weak bat. Geltz is just AAA filler. I know nothing about the Cuban they are signing, which in my opinion makes the signing just another stab in the dark and missing the target move.
Also look at Dozier’s numbers from 2015.
His numbers look quite a bit like Grandal’s, from this last year.
And you know that Grandal doesn’t hit consistently.
If he’s some one who can put the ball in play that’s good, if he’s so slow he can’t make it to 1st base that’s bad. If he defends like Guerrero that’s really bad, if he’s actually adequate defensively I guess that’s OK. My opinion is if JDL is still in the Dodger organization in 2017…that’s good.
I sure agree that it is good to have hitters, who can put the ball in play
You sound like those two guys on Hee Haw ’58.
Roy Clark and Buck Owens……..country music hall of famers…..
When Agone came up to bat, with runners on base, he hit in a higher percentage of runners, then anyone else on the team.
I have a question for everyone who wants Agone out of the meat of the order, who is going to step up, and be able to hit in runs, when they are needed?
Is Joc going to shorten his swing when he has two strikes, with runners in scoring position, and get the runs in?
Will the other hitters, be able to do what is needed, to get runs in, when there time comes?
After Agone had those three days off, he came back and hit 300 the rest of the season, and his power numbers, were back, to the power numbers he had, in the two previous seasons.
And he did hit 28 HRs, in that prior season.
My problem with those who want Agone out of the top of the line up, is once again, who is going to do the job?
I think Turner can help, but I don’t see anyone else that will be able to do this next year.
I think Corey will get better, but even Corey, who hit 300 all year, wasn’t able to hit in a higher percentage of runs.
Who besides Corey and Turner, is going to do better then Agone, to push him down in the order?
Braun and Dozier!
That made me laugh, when I read that!
Braun might do it, but I still think Agone will hit in a higher percentage of runs, then Dozier.
Most of Dozier’s HRs, came when he was hitting first.
And pitchers pitch hitters tougher, when people are on base.
In 2015, Agone hit as many HRs, as Dozier did, in that same year.
But the point is that no one else on this team, besides Turner and Corey, will probaby be able to hit in a higher percentage of runs, then Agone.
And Turner and Corey, didn’t do that last year.
And that is why I don’t understand why some people, want him out of the heart, of the order.
I just don’t see anyone else, that can do the job.
MJ, here are the 2016 stats–represent the split = against righties
Pederson .269 .371 .547 .918
Gonzales .303 .372 .488 .859
Joc is more likely to improve and Agon is more likely to digress.
So, to answer your question about who should hit in front of Agon, against righties, its JOC.
The only thing that you got right, is that Joc should improve more then Agone, because of age.
Joc is not going to hit in more runs, then Agone, if he is hitting in the heart of the lineup.
You can take Joc’s slugging percentage and forget about it.
Because he won’t be hitting as many HRs, or having as many hits, hitting in the heart of the order.
Pitchers pitch much tougher to hitters, at the top of the line up.
Both Turner and Corey didn’t do it last year, and I think they are both, much better hitters, then Joc.
Joc is still learning how to hit.
There is nothing wrong with that.
Well, that and the stats I got right and that makes 2 our of 3 right. I’ve done worse.
The chances Ryan Braun become a Dodger are getting slimmer and slimmer. If he is traded at all it will probably be a deadline deal, so quit yer dreamin.
“he hit in a higher percentage of runners, then anyone else on the team.”
Do you mean he drove in a run with a hit or just by putting the ball in play? Probably the latter. Given his veteran status he can tell when just putting the ball in play is enough. Corey probably understands that, Joc still learning, Puig fuggedaboutit!
All of the above!
And I guess that is the difference, with
I think the percentage is used, because some players have more chances when people are on base.
Like Agone because he is hitting fourth, or third.
But even then, he hit in a higher percentage of runs last year, then anyone.
He try’s to get runs in, anyway he can.
Haven’t noticed, we have some players, that have trouble just putting the ball in play, when it is needed.
If we have a runner on third with less then two outs, you would think it is easy to get that run home.
But for some, it isn’t easy, even though a sac fly will do it, or even a grounder to the right side, that isn’t hit to hard.
And I do hope all of our young players, take notice when Agone is hitting with runners on.
perhaps, the twins wanted to have a 2B to be a part of the Dozier trade and did not find a suitable candidate on the Dodger’s roster. could this acquisition be the next step needed to bring this situation to fruition?
One can only wonder…
Agone had 100 more at bats then Joc, but he also had 62 more hits then Joc.
And Joc only had seven more HRs, then Agone.
That is a big difference.
And this is not only against righties, this is from all pitchers.
Wow, that is a big difference. I forgot that Joc had 7 more home runs in 100 less at bats.
Joc didn’t do that, hitting at the top of the order, is my point.
MJ, I think your hypothesis that it is harder to hit at the top of the order is unsubstantiated and I disagree with that hypothesis. I think you are holding on to something that you don’t know is true or not.
We have a half dozen candidates for that position and yet we’re offering our best pitching prospect for theirs. I think that sums up what FAZ, and likely the Twins, think of our second basemen.
You can disagree, but why would they even care about where players hit in the line up, if it is only a hypothesis.
Why do you think Mattingly put Joc in the eighth position, in his first month of the season, in his first year?
Because he was trying to ease Joc in to the majors.
And you know that Joc doesn’t shorten up, most of the time, when he has two strikes, with runners in scoring position.
He doesn’t do it that often, and that is why I give him a call out when he does that, in a good way.
The order matters only for two real reasons (for the NL). The players at the top of the order get to hit more, and the player before the pitcher gets to walk more.
Hitting the ball hard is hitting the ball hard. Getting on base is getting on base.
Are you saying that pitchers don’t pitch hitters at the top of the order, tougher?
And hitting the ball hard, only means something, when there is consistent contact.
And I know the eighth hitter, can get more walks with the pitcher coming up.
We will just agree that we don’t agree on this, and get on with it.
I really wasn’t only talking about Joc, I just don’t see anyone on the team now, that can step up, and move Agone down.
Someone like Braun might, but Braun might take some of the heat off Agone, and make his job easier.
We lost both Hanley and Kemp, and we need at least another bat like that.
That is what I think is missing.
MJ, you have heard that good hitters need protection or they will be pitched around. If a hitter has a good hitter hitting behind them, a pitcher will be less likely to nibble on the corners that tends to get them behind in the count and then they will either put a pitch more in the middle of the strike zone or risk walking the hitter. The next good hitter then gets more chances to get RBIs.
The 8th hitter never gets that fat pitch unless he is a weak hitter with little power.
Friedman inherited a farm system that was ranked #14 in 2014 by Baseball Prospectus. By 2015, they were #3 and they won the division and went to the NLDS. In 2016, they rose to #1 and got to the NLCS! They will likely be in the Top 5 again in 2017.
In 2013, here were the top Dodger prospects: Yasiel Puig, Zach Lee, Chris Withrow, Chris Reed, Matt Magill, Onelki Garcia, Cory Seager.
In 2013, here were the Top Cardinal prospects: Oscar Taveras, Shelby Miller, Carlos Martinez, Trevor Rosenthal, Michael Wacha, Kolten Wong, Matt Adams. The only one who didn’t make it was the best one, Oscar Tavaras who was a Superstar in the making when he was killed.
The Dodgers have had a few good players drafted, but look at the Cards. They know how to draft. I think Friedman knows how too. What most of you fail to realize is that most teams (like the Cubs) rebuild by Blowing it up. The Dodgers rebuilt while winning. Some of you don’t want to be confused with the facts but to keep winning while rebuilding (this no long term deals) they had to take a lot of risks AND IT HAS WORKED! Most of you thought the team would be horrendous last year and it wasn’t!
FAZ has a clue – most of you don’t! No offense intended, but if the shoe fits, wear it!
I agree that FAZ has a clue. However, their past draft history at their former clubs, Friedman in particular, don’t necessarily look convincing that Friedman has been good at drafting.
Thank you. Someone that has looked at the facts. 9 years of historical data. The wall street investor has not been impressive.
I concur. Rays are in a state of disarray now……and who’s fault is that?
So – how much did the Braintrust contribute to that glorious farm system?
2014 – top 10 Dodger prospects
The Braintrust has not added appreciably to the ranks of top prospects during the previous 2 or 3 seasons. As time passes, the Braintrust’s drafts will of necessity make up most of the team’s top prospects as the older prospects either get called up or traded or wash out.
The fact that the 2013 prospects were not a stellar group doesn’t prove anything except that in baseball, drafting players is a crapshoot and that even your top prospects don’t usually make it in a substantial way in the Big Leagues.
Is this really fair? I mean the Dodgers rebuild was decidedly anti-tanking so they never drafted high in the draft. The International Signing rules limit them to one signing period (which they seem to have done well in).
So expecting immediate impact from mid-low (in the round) picks and super-young signings is a very high bar.
I’d look at Alvarez, Barnes, Trace Thompson, Montas as indicators that the Front Office knows how to evaluate young players.
The point is that Mark gave the Braintrust high marks for building the farm and compared it to the 2013 top 10 prospect list. My point is that the same previous management team also procured the prospects that that the baseball press loved – not the Braintrust. He can’t have it both ways.
The Braintrust’s drafts won’t be properly evaluated for 3 – 5 years so we won’t know. And as far as the group that bluto has mentioned, we don’t know about them either. Barnes has not done well in a small sample size at the big league level. Thompson – we don’t know whether his precipitous decline was due to injury or if the league had simply figured him out. (His minor league performance was hardly stellar.) Montas didn’t do anything for the Dodgers but sit on the DL along with many of the other pitchers procured by the BT. And does anyone know what Alvarez will do at the major league level? Has he pitched higher than class A ball?
We know what the prior administration procured – Seager, Pederson, Urias, DeLeon, Stripling, etc. I’m not saying that it had done a stellar job – lots of lean years too. But it is hardly fair to credit the BT with building the farm when all of the work was done by the prior regime. Also, Frank McCourt gutted the foreign scouting and procurement program so that can hardly be laid at the feet of Ned C. either.
Totally agree. Could give the current FO some credit for holding onto the prospects, but all credit in getting them goes to Mr. White.
” You get my drift ” ??? Painfully Mark…
Please lets see what we got in the Jose…
I have seen both Seager and Bellinger and I project Bellinger will be our 1B for many productive years. To have him replace Gonzo says that we have been blessed over the years in having quality 1B…
At least that’s what my eyes and sources have told me…
The facts remain:
1. The Dodgers did not tank like the Cubs;
2. They did not draft high;
3. They did not trade away the good prospects;
4. They were competitive;
5. They are one of the best farms systems now; and
6. I mean, what in the hell do you want?
Some people just have a shitty outlook on life. ENJOY! You get what you believe!
I guess anyone who deigns to disagree with you has a “shitty outlook on life”?
Who did I denigrate? How was I negative?
Mark speak for you disagree I bash your outlook…
You guys bitched just as much or even more about Ned and now the current FO had this WONDERFUL stable of young players when they took over from him.
You’d complain no matter what this FO did.
PS: Please learn the differnece between the words “then” and “than”. They re not interchangeable.
I too prefer the correct use of then and than as well as spelling they’re correctly.
Seems obvious the prospects that caused the system to be ranked higher were already here when Friedman took over. Rick did a good job of pointing that out and for his work he’s told he has a shitty outlook on life. Nice. What appears shitty here is the logic behind giving credit to FAZ for work done before they got here. We’ll see in a few years how good their drafts are. Their trades don’t impress much. I think you have to give them more than two years. I’ll give them three, but the plan might actually be five.
Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong and I probably am but,
Montas(while we had him)
were all acquired by the current front office. It has been a mix of Logan’s guys and Freidman’s guys. Logan seemed to do better before and after McCourt, but he definitely had his share of misses and I like Logan White, but to say the current state of the minor league system is all on Logan is wrong though..
Add the three young players who have already made it beyond prospect to the majors:
Dayton, Barnes, Hernandez.
That is a list of potentially good major league players gotten by FAZ and they represent part of the reason why the Dodgers farm system under FAZ has moved up in the rankings. Hopefully, some of them turn into real Major League Players, either by performance or trade.
The problem seems, so far at least, that most of their trades haven’t produced big results at the major league level and that leaves many fans in short term anguish.
While I may have hoped for better short term trade results it seems that the future that FAZ is building bodes well at the ML level from both inherited/retained talent and from acquired potential talent. Over the last 4 years they have become a perennial contender and I’m willing to wait on what they are doing now to turn into a team that feels like it has a real shot at winning the WS. They are close but a few things need to go their way over the next few years and we will have a LAD WS party.
Hope…….it kept Cubs fans afloat for over 100 years. Hope does not win pennants or World Series. It takes a combination of grit and talent and a whole lot of luck. I agree with Badger. The FO’s trades are not impressive. Of the guys traded to the Sox, 2 are in the majors, Peraza and Schebler. Thompson is the only one who made any impact with the Dodgers. Montas is an A, Johnson is bench fodder. Reddick is gone thank you and Hill won exactly 3 regular season games. He did well in the playoffs, but without that true #3 the Dodgers were bound to lose. They came within 2 of the Series a bunch of you cry, but no matter how you spin it, they lost.
Your point about Peraza (backup), Schebler (backup) and Thompson (Backup) is only valid if each teams roster were the same in terms of depth and quality.
The two Reds backups had WAR under 1. That’s not good by any measure of interpretation.
I get accused of making too many trade proposals especially the larger and bolder ones. Let me accuse many here who complain about the players FAZ have traded for without saying anything about the quality or lack thereof of the players used to make those trades.
FAZ did give up Holmes, Cotton, and Montas for basically Hill and that could have led to a WS appearance and almost did. I liked that trade. It was similar to a trade that some here wanted to make to get Hammels. The latter potential trade has been rationalized as much as the Hill trade was criticized.
My belief is that if anybody wants to criticize FAZ for not making good trades they need to propose the trades they would like for them to make. There is entirely too much Monday Morning Quarterbacking in here.
Hamels and Hill are two VERY different pitchers. And proposed trades, and alternate strategies, have been posted and reposted by many for 3 off seasons and 2 trade deadlines.
Brock Stewart was drafted by the previous regime. So of all those names…. how many have made a difference with the big club? Toles & Thompson? Both in very minor roles.
Since we are only looking at the ‘younger’ additions. How many of those project in the top 10 Dodger prospects for 2017?
Do you really want me to provide a list of all the great major leaguers that 9 years of drafting brought forth the Rays organization? There is a reason why this guy waste, I mean spends money in the International market so heavily.
yes, because and that reason is that they are never drafting near the top of any round?
The gentleman who broke the JT and KJ signings tweeted tonight that there was some movement in the Dozier deal. The Dodgers feel their offer is fair and basically have told the Twins to shit or get off the pot. Next 24-48 will be crucial.
I have to like that. This has dragged on much too long.
I hope that is true, because I don’t want to give up to much, for two years of Dozier.
I actually think our front office has the upper hand here.
Because the Twins don’t have any other teams, that are in the bidding.
Who broke those signing?!?!?!?
Is one Rosenthal?
Chris Camello broke those signing 12-24 hrs ahead of talking heads like Rosenthal. When some of those guys started taking credit, many people including myself, made sure to point out that it was Camello. Rosenthal eventually sent Chris a tweet congratulating him. He had JT’s contract within $1 million and he had KJ going back to the Dodgers when everyone else had him leaving.
I think it was you and Bobby, who mentioned it here first, but I think the program here, wasn’t letting anyone’s posts go through, on that night.
Cool. I’m going to follow him on Twitter.
This guy is always insightful, but especially so today. If you don’t feel the same way, then don’t bother reading it:
They just said that the Dodgers are in on Holland.
Holland wants a two year contract, with an opt out, after the first year.
If he is still that same pitcher, he would be a very good set up guy.
Thát could very well be a list that will push the Dodgers farm system back into the top five in MLB. BUT, I submit the players that launched them to the Top were Seager, Urias and De Leon. When you are THAT top heavy (#1, 2 and 21) you will score well. Now our top prospects are De Leon, Bellinger, Alvarez, Verdugo and Calhoun. Slowly, the Friedman picks are moving up. They’ve now got 3 years doing this.
Obviously we are stuck in this loop. You like FAZ, you will choose the information that supports their genius. You aren’t sure, you just need to look at results. Like digit, I too wish the moves they made with the big club were better, but they were not. Simply put, they didn’t win us that long wait for pennant. Nobody can argue that point. In ’15 and ’16 we got beat in the playoffs just like we did in ’13 and ’14. The team they inherited, the ’14 squad, had the most wins of any of those teams. Frankly I believe those two teams were better. My opinion.
And now the beat goes on. Will ’17 be the year?
The Dodgers were the last team standing except for the two teams who went to the WS.
Many bitched incessantly all season moaning how they were not going to do anything, blah, blah, blah…
Then, they almost got to the WS and might have had their ACe not let them down and it’s back to a bitch session.
Yes, we did not get to the World Series, but we got a step closer – there’s a lot to be excited about.
I do think Friedman is bright – I put him there with Theo and several others. No more, no less. If the Dodgers hadn’t clinched a week early because the Giants tanked, they would have won over 95 games. They didn’t because they did not have to, but all I hear is:
“they got another A’s re-tread.”
“they only sign injury-prone players”
“but their pitchers can’t pitch deep into games”
“they didn’t do this”
“they did that”
Yes, some people do have a shitty outlook on life. Will 17 be the year? It won’t be for a lack of trying, but if we don’t get Dozier and don’t win most will blame Friedman and if they do get Dozier and don’t win they will do the same. Many of you have the same tired narrative playing on a continuous loop… or maybe that’s a contentious loop. Just my opinion – don’t let it ruin your day if I am wrong.
Don’t worry, we won’t.
Speaking from years of experience, there is no loop more tiring than yours Mark.
Think I will go try on some shoes and see how they fit!
You might try the shoe store Mr. Applegate used…
I hear that Imelda Marcos’ family, still has a lot of her shoes, in one of there closets.
We avoided arbitration with Nuno. So, that’s a thing.
They gave him $125K more than the projected arbitration number. Hardly call that a victory although that’s pocket change in their league.
You gotta’ love guys like Justin Turner:
Nuno frequently breaks 85 with his fastball, but he has a killer changeup. I’m not sure where he fits in the pen… probably AAAA.
If his fastball is 85 MPH, his changeup must roll backwards…
I only think Weaver can relate, to that fastball.
Now that was funny.
He throws his change up at 90 MPH.
I would take Betts of the three.
lets forget dozier and go for braun and villar
VILLAR IS NOT AVAILABLE!
It has been reported the Dodgers want Forsythe, but he’s not being moved either.
I think Harrison may be a direction the team has both explored and will explore.
In Dodgers Digest they say the Dozier deal is at an impasse, so it isn’t going to happen.
They used Rosenthal’s tweets, to confirm it.
Not to nitpick, but impasse doesn’t mean “isn’t going to happen”.
I know, but I looked it up, after reading the article in Dodger Digest.
It can mean progress can’t happen, because of a disagreement or deadlock.
When that article, had Rosenthal’s tweets, and said it was an impasse, I thought the same as you, but in that same article, they are saying the deal fell apart..
Well Bluto, I do get your point, it could change I suppose, but the word impasse kinda does mean it won’t happen. An impasse is “a situation or position from which there is no escape, a deadlock”. Deadlock is a state in which progress is impossible. As it stands, the teams are deadlocked. The Twins know they need to make a move or shut up about it, and at this point I think it’s safe to say that for now Dozier stays in Minnesota. It might be revisited later, but it appears they aren’t even talking anymore.
Chris Carmello and a Twins fan who supposedly had source tweeted the same thing. Dave from Twins Daily actually tweeted it before Rosenthal. He claims JDL and Alvarez were agreed upon and the Twins were asking too much for a 3rd piece rather than the AAAA guy the Dodgers wanted to include. He has a twitter site called Dozier2TheDodgers.
Yeah, that guy’s a fraud, according to the established Twins reporter Wolfson.
The latter’s reporting and Rosenthal’s report seem much more accurate, IMO.
Micah Johnson was designated for assignment.
Kenley back on roster now.
Doesn’t this mean Johnson is now on waivers, subject to claim by any team and they can resign him only if every other team passes on him?
He probably will go to the minors right?
It seems the Dodgers and MJ held similar concerns. Rosenthal reports:
The Dodgers were willing to part with De Leon and more knowing that Dozier’s season was an outlier, that he has never played in a large market, that he strikes out above the league average.
Really, what would Braun cost and would they take Kazmir in Trade?
Now add Villar, is it that much more than what the Twins want for Dozier?
Much bigger return.
Braun was going to cost Puig, McCarthy, and two prospects last year with the Brewers eating the deferred money. Now add Villar to the deal. I’m not sure about others, but I would want more for Villar than Dozier.
Braun and Villar?
Kazmir and $16 million
That’s what they would want.
That all makes Hernandez and Utely look pretty good…