My Dodgers Offseason Plan: 2016-2017

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Be sure to tell me how much of an idiot I am in the comments!

I wanted to get one of these off because this figures to be a busy offseason. Andrew Friedman and company will have a lot of work to do in order to make this roster compete in 2017 with the elites in the National League. The good news is that they certainly are creative!

Some of the multiyear contracts that the players have signed haven’t turned out great so it’ll be up to the team to maneuver past the Scott Kazmir and Brandon McCarthy contracts while adding some upside not named Clayton Kershaw in the rotation. They have to figure out how who is going to be the closer of the future now that they have no obvious internal option, and before you ask I will quit this site forever if they go into 2017 with Pedro Baez closing games…

I don’t see it happening.

They also have to figure out third base and understand that the next third baseman might not be long for the position because a Corey Seager move could happen at any point within the next few years, it’s something to consider when looking at the trade options for the hot corner this offseason.

The Dodgers have a strong stable of prospects as assets to fix the roster both at the major league and at the minor league level. Ultimately, I am trying to mix a realistic offseason with what i’d like to see happen, I doubt I get any of the trades correct, and some of the signings are interesting fits that rest on several things happening but I am sure the needs they have will be fixed one way or another.

So let’s get to it.


Arbitration

Luis Avilan– $1.5 Million

Scott Van Slyke– $1.3 Million

Chris Hatcher– $1.4 Million

Josh Fields– $1.2 Million

Matt Swartz of MLB Trade Rumors made a fantastic resource in predicting arbitration numbers of every eligible player in the league, these numbers are sourced directly from there.

This list is missing some big names but the names on it are cheap enough to justify bringing back, Hatcher and Van Slyke get one more chance to be meaningful contributors as Dodgers.


Extension

Yasmani Grandal– 3 years, $42 million dollars

This buys out one free agent year of Grandal, giving the Dodgers a good framing catcher and a strong hitter. In return Grandal gets some nice security and a cool payday in case anything goes wrong with his health. The Dodgers catcher is better than Francisco Cervelli who signed a 3 year, 31 million dollar contract in May, so Yasmani gets 11 million more considering the free agent market is about to expand. This is crucial because it allows them to have more options regarding Austin Barnes.


Internal Free Agents

Justin Turner– 4 years, $72 million dollars

Chase Headley, during the 2014 offseason signed a 4 year 52 million dollar contract that was viewed as being a bit under market value. While that has proven to be a mistake by the Yankees, I see Headley and Justin Turner as having similar situations. While Turner has had much more success offensively, being 2 years older than Headley was at the time of his contract will prevent the years from being too absurd. Ultimately the Dodgers will have to overpay a bit in order to keep him as far as total dollars are concerned.

I am of the opinion that they do need to keep him, his age works both ways. He will likely decline sooner than a younger player, however his age will likely prevent him from getting a huge guarantee, which allows the Dodgers to see how much longer Corey Seager can handle shortstop with the ability to construct a roster either way, a win all around.


External Free Agents

Mark Melancon– 4 years $52 million

The team is going to have to pony up for a closer, the easiest way to do this without getting into some moral conundrum -The Aroldis Chapman enigma- is signing Melancon. One benefit of replacing Kenley Jansen with Melancon is that Kenley signing with another team guarantees the Dodgers a draft pick which is something to look out for. Melancon basically gets the Papelbon contract cause he’s been an elite reliever for 4 years, sporting a 2.39 ERA and a 2.57 FIP.

I’d understand if the team is wary about him considering his velocity is trending a little bit downward, but signing Melancon is an opportunity to get a draft pick at the back end of the first round and a reliever that Dave Roberts trusts to close games.

Steve Pearce– 2 years, $26 million

This is an off the radar name that is really, really intriguing. Pearce is a utility player who played Right Field, Left Field, Second Base, and First Base. But his versatility isn’t the important thing about him, those who hate Jon Lester and any lefty the Dodgers ran into last season will love him.

He owned a .867 OPS last season and was targeted by this team during the trade deadline. The thing about Pearce is that he is a career .270 hitter against left handed pitching (.853 OPS). He fixes a huge hole in the lineup against left handed pitching and allows him to be Adrian Gonzalez‘s full time platoon partner (AGon needs it). The only issue is he’s coming off elbow surgery which isn’t a small wart with him, but if he can pass a physical then he’d be a fantastic addition to the 2017 team.

Yoenis Cespedes– 5 years, $125 million (1 year $25 million team option, 15 million dollar buyout)

Yoenis opts out of his deal with the Mets cause if not he’ll get in the Jose Bautista situation, hitting free agency at the worst possible time. He is coming off of a season where he posted a .884 OPS, upped his walk % 2.7 percentage points, and repeated his ISO from last season where he was. He did deal with some minor injuries but the reason his defense was worse this season was the fact that he was forced into playing CF primarily because the Mets couldn’t plan the OF correctly but that wasn’t his fault. This would be the cleanest way to figure out the OF because they get the best version of Yasiel Puig and he’d be 31 for the entirety of next year.

A 5 years for 25 million dollars per year with the 10 million dollar buyout seems reasonable considering he’s 31 years old, perhaps the Dodgers get outbid for him, but it surely won’t be from the Mets side.

Lourdes Gourriel 4 years $50 million

The Cubans the Dodgers have signed under this scouting department have been significantly better than the last. Yusniel Diaz is cracking some top 100 prospect lists, potentially being a solid, cheap corner outfielder who is only 21 years old. Similarly, Yadier Alvarez has put himself on the prospect map with a dominant season in Rookie Ball and Low-A Ball. He will start breaking into top 100 lists giving the Dodgers a legitimate replacement for the prospects they are about to graduate/trade away.

So if the team likes what it sees from Gourriel –who as a 23 year old, posted a .967 OPS in the Cuban National Series- then why not?

His brother, who just signed with the Astros is Cuban legend Yuliesky Gourriel, but if the scouts like him then Gourriel could be a prime replacement for the Chase Utley/Howie Kendrick/Enrique Hernandez experiment. He isn’t quite as good as Yoan Moncada, but is on the open market so that any team could sign him at no penalty other than the money they’re paying.

My thinking for this contract is basically the fact that the Dodgers get him for less than Moncada got even if he’s on the free market. The upside for Gourriel is that he has the ability to opt for free agency after year 4 and the Dodgers forfeit the final 2 years of arbitration. A compromise for both the dollars and years, and an infielder hitting the open market at 27 could be huge for his future prospects, and a 12.5 million dollar guarantee seems like a nice deal.

Brad Ziegler– 2 years $18 million

Ziegler seems like a good option to go after considering his career numbers, he has a 60 ERA- meaning he’s 40 points below the league average. The Dodgers have to replace Joe Blanton somehow, and don’t get me wrong, Blanton did a great job last season but the flyball heavy approach killed the Dodgers in the playoffs

Ziegler isn’t Zach Britton but a 66.3% career GB% is a good way to compensate the for fact the Dodgers are still gonna be flyball centric as a bullpen, Ziegler would represent a real fireman if the Dodgers wish to use him that way or a good setup man.


Opt Out/Outrighted/DFA/Non-Tendered/Waivers

Chin Hui-Tsao- Due $800K in arbitration

He doesn’t need to be occupying a roster spot.

Louis Coleman– Due $1.5 Million in arbitration

Ehhhhhh.

Free Agents Not Retained

Kenley Jansen

He goes to a team needy for a closer and overpay him in a Zack Greinke type situation.

Chase Utley

Wore down at the end of last year, killed the team in the NLCS, I will always have love for him though.

Josh Reddick

Probably best for both sides to move on.

Rich Hill

He’s either going back to Boston or somewhere else back east, i’d be surprised to get him back next season, though the Dodgers could be aggressive if they fall short on an Archer/#2 starter upside type and he’s still out there.

J.P. Howell

Cost himself millions by opting in last offseason, there are better, younger, cheaper, internal options.

Joe Blanton

Wouldn’t surprise me to see him back but it seems the Dodgers could fill this need by signing a different type of pitcher, one not so much like the other members in the bullpen.

Jesse Chavez, Jordan Schafer, Will Venable, Dan Johnson, Eric Stults (???) Sam LeCure

It was nice having you?


Trades

To Tampa Bay: Jose De Leon, Alex Verdugo, Austin Barnes, Alex Wood, Yasiel Puig

To Los Angeles: Chris Archer

The Rays get 2 top 50 global prospects in De Leon and Verdugo, a Drew Smyly type starter in Alex Wood, their starting catcher for the 2017 season in Austin Barnes, and Yasiel Puig on a relatively cheap contract to try to fix.

To Minnesota: Scott Kazmir

To Los Angeles: Ryan Pressly

This is a reliever the Dodgers seem to like, lots of fly balls who’s cheap and has good command/control numbers. He’s not great but freeing up the roster spot allows the Dodgers more flexibility to make the rest of this work.

-Don’t focus on the reliever that I listed seeing as almost every middle reliever in the game is in play. Focus on the information that they want to move on from Kazmir and he wants to move on from the team, I’ll bet he’s not back next year.-


Injured

Hyun Jin-Ryu- “expected back in time for spring training” who knows though?

It’s a damn shame about Ryu.

Yimi Garcia– I hope he’s able to pitch by Spring Training but things have been awfully quiet on this front.

Adam Liberatore– Expected to be ready for Spring Training after elbow surgery during the playoffs

Trayce Thompson– Should be ready for Spring Training after a fractured back kept him out down the stretch into the playoffs.


Lineup

VS RHP

Andrew Toles LF

Corey Seager SS

Justin Turner 3b

Yoenis Cespedes RF

Adrian Gonzalez 1b

Yasmani Grandal C

Joc Pederson CF

Howie Kendrick 2b –holding Gourriel’s place-

Vs LHP

Howie Kendrick 2b

Corey Seager SS

Justin Turner 3b

Yoenis Cespedes RF

Steve Pearce 1b

Carlos Ruiz C

Trayce Thompson LF

Joc Pederson CF


Bench

Carlos Ruiz C

Steve Pearce 1b/2b/OF

Trayce Thompson OF

Andre Ethier LF/RF

Charlie Culberson SS/3b


Rotation

Clayton Kershaw LHP

Chris Archer RHP

Brandon McCarthy RHP

Kenta Maeda RHP

Julio Urias LHP


Bullpen

Mark Melancon CL

Brad Ziegler SU

Grant Dayton SU

Pedro Baez MR

Ryan Pressly MR

Adam Liberator MR/LOOGY

Chris Hatcher LR


Rest of 40 Man Roster

Kyle Farmer C

Rob Segedin 1b/RF/LF

Lourdes Gourriel IF

Scott Van Slyke 1b/OF

Micah Johnson 2b

Chris Taylor IF

Hyun-Jin Ryu SP

Chase De Jong SP

Brock Stewart SP

Ross Stripling SP

Carlos Frias SP/RP

Josh Fields RP

Jacob Rhame RP

Luis Avilan RP

Yimi Garcia RP


So that’s the roster, and if we’re being honest very few of these moves are going to happen, maybe I’ll only get Justin Turner correct, maybe I’ll whiff and they let Turner walk and sign Kenley and go after some crazy deal that lands Logan Forsythe and Evan Longoria. There will almost certainly be a 3 way deal at some point this offseason and those are impossible to predict. This is just to emphasize the fact that the Dodgers have a few holes to fix before they’re ready to challenge the Cubs again in a postseason environment.

At this point those holes are:

Third Base

Closer

Second Base

Setup Man

Outfield

Starting Rotation

This is at the very least but we will certainly see a lot of activity this offseason.

Adrian Garcia

Adrian Garcia

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336 thoughts on “My Dodgers Offseason Plan: 2016-2017

  1. Good job! Very interesting read. You must have put a lot of thought into it.

    Lots of good ideas. Hard to tell, any idea the roster cost of all your moves in 2017 and 2018?

    I see the Dodgers REALLY beefing up the bullpen. Melancon should be a target. I also like Jansen back and lots more. Seems it fits with all the organizational starters we have and cost effective. Already have lots of starting pitcher depth AGAIN maybe less injuries. We saw a good bullpen compensates for five inning starters. Good thing, we have lots of potential young stud starters and all a year older.

    I don’t like your Archer trade. I don’t believe he is all that and would rather keep Puig than pay for Cespedes (and lose draft pick).

    Again GOOD JOB!!

    1. Thanks Boxout! The roster costs are the hardest thing to figure out in a thing like this, for example the fact that they have to add a couple of players like Chase De Jong and Kyle Farmer. I will write about this at some point but the depth that the Dodgers have created will force them at some point to cash in their trade pieces for a very valuable player. That was the thinking behind the Chris Archer trade, that the Dodgers can’t have starting level players sitting in the minors when they can cash that in for a really good piece, maybe that’s Archer, maybe that’s somebody else.

      As far as the bullpen goes, I will probably get none of those names right, I think the Dodgers will try to get a pitcher through the trade route to be the setup man but it’s just too hard to predict, I think they’ll get one of Jansen/Melancon.

      I like Cespedes or Braun cause they need to fix the OF and getting the draft pick from letting Jansen walk makes them feel better about signing Cespedes and giving up the draft pick.

    2. Now ask Adrian his age. If you’re not aware of that, it should be interesting considering he’s somewhat a veteran at this.

  2. 5 guys for Archer? That ain’t happening unless FAZ is totally bonkers, and he sure as hell is not packaging Deleon and Verdugo in that deal. Cespedes , no thanks, I keep Puig and fix him myself. I am also not paying Grandal that much cash. I do not place that much value on a guy who’s only real defensive skill consists of moving his glove and fooling umpires. He still strikes out way to much and his BA is lousy. Maybe he figures it out and maybe not. He is terrible at blocking pitches and has too many passed balls. I do not tender Hatcher, or SVS. Hatcher is FAZ’s fair haired boy, but he has not proven anything, and SVS has been injury prone. The Cuban guy I know very little about, so I will go along with you on this. But I think the huge money that will be tossed around to the closers out there this year will keep them from jumping in. Unless Kenley gives them a home town discount, I think they let him walk. They will make every effort to resign Turner.

      1. Keeping Puig does not leave a hole, it plugs one of the biggest holes on this team. First, he is a RH power hitter, and he usually crushes lefty’s. 2nd, the guy is one of the elite RF’s in the game. He is a much better fielder than Braun and has a better arm. And his age is working for him. Giving up on a 26 year old guy with all those skills is STUPID. And, his trade value is probably down. So unless they move him to Milwaukee in a trade for Braun, they are not going to get all that much in trade. I think they make a concerted effort to unload SVS and Ethier. They are not going to resign Reddick most likely.

  3. Good read. Interesting thought process.

    What do those moves do to payroll?

    I don’t give up that much for Archer (I hear Pittsburgh is targeting him) and I don’t plan on anything out of McCarthy. At his age and possible durability issues, Turner concerns me and for $14 mil a year Grandal will need to play more and play better at the end of the year.

    The rest of this? Yeah, sure, maybe….. Ion’tknow.

    1. thanks for the comment badger, the goal of something like this is just outlining the problems with the roster and what they have to fix. the number of high level pitchers they will target will probably include archer, hill, maybe col, maybe sale, maybe verlander and others

      Turner does concern me but who else is out there?

  4. Good work, Adrian and should stimulate a lot of good discussion. That said, I really couldn’t buy the Archer trade.
    I became a Dodger fan in 1949, and I loved the Dodgers of the 50’s. I consider those teams as the epitome of the “Dodger Way.” Not only were they great hitting teams, they were equally adept in the field. Because of this, I cannot get excited about Braun or Cespedes. While they are great run producers, it’s hard to tell how many runs they surrender. Neither am I hot for Thompson. He has not been proven by enough ABs around the league, and I am skeptical about a long career being built upon a significant back injury. He is not a bad piece to keep around for a while to see how he continues to bat and how his back heals
    It appears to be difficult to talk trade without saying “Puig.” I don’t know when it is time to give up on him, but I think Roberts, maybe it was Friedman, recently said he has multiple ways to impact a game positively. I think that an outfield of Toles, Joc, and Puig would be fantastic in preventing runs and would be in a state of progressive improvement on offense with speed for both defense and offence. I say get a speedster for second. Get a couple of good starting pitchers. Start as soon as possible in developing a first baseman and use him for resting Gonzales in 2017. Platoon Grandal. And we are good to go.

    1. excellent points all around, I think that the perception of cespedes would be significantly different if he played in a corner last year as opposed to center field, platooning grandal would be a good idea

      and bellinger is waiting to supplant agon that’s why i couldn’t include him in any trade

      1. Some people say Bellinger may be a better fit in the outfield. I would say maybe Grandal at first, but I recall him having some difficulty “framing” balls in the dirt.

        I think there is still a lot of work to do with this roster and it’s my opinion the future really begins when Crawford, Gonzalez, Ethier and the other annoying dead contracts are finally put behind us. It doesn’t seem likely we will get the Wins Above Replacennt value out of the three just mentioned, nor out of Guerrero or Arruebarrena. Add McCarthy and Kazmir and…….

        polishing this up is going to take more than a few months. Patience is needed here.

    2. Just in case you missed my earlier post, hpwolfe.

      Better be careful around these parts, hpwolfe. Many here would tell you those 50’s teams were terribly flawed. Built only to get to the World Series, but, never to win it.

      You are probably about ten years older than me. My first Dodger memories were 1959. In those days ALL I wanted to do was play baseball. Would beg the older kids to let me play. School held no interest, except recess. Parents got me “The American Diamond” by Branch Rickey for Christmas one year. Probably learned to read with that book, practically memorized it. Still have it. The 50’s Dodgers were truly beautifully constructed teams!

      1. Mine were in 55. Saw them on TV and just loved the team. When they moved to LA I was in heaven. Those 50’s teams had flaws, but they were the best in the NL for most of the decade. And they were colorful and fun to watch. The 2016 version pales in comparison…..

    3. Personally, and not because I dislike the kid, I think Toles is being a little over rated here. He did well last year, but he looked over matched at times and succumbed to the same disease a lot of our LH hitters did of flailing away at the low inside pitch they have zero chance of hitting. He is a great piece to try and build on, but I am not sure he is ready for prime time.

      1. Michael

        Toles makes more consistent contact, then most of this line up.

        And he has consistently hit for a high average, as he went up in the system.

        We need a player like Toles, to help have a more productive offense.

        We already have to many HR, or strike out players, at the bottom of our line up.

        And if you are concerned with strike outs, save that for Joc and Grandal.

        Almost every time Toles came up to bat, it seemed he made something good happen.

        He either just got on base with a hit, and let someone hit him in, or he was hitting a runner in, with a hit or a double.

        And remember he only started at A ball, so he will only get better.

        1. You could be right, and then again the small sample size of his exposure to big league pitching makes me wonder. He was doing a Joc Pederson impersonation there for some of those at bats, and he looked over matched. I have learned over the years to not trust minor league success for a player. I remember too many guys who tore the cover off the ball in AAA and got punked in the bigs. Toles has tools. We will see how he fares in spring training. If he is going to play everyday, they are going to have to dump somebody.

          1. Michael

            I guess I get tired of these players, striking out, in situations where they need to get there bat on the ball.

            Corey was our only 300 hitter this year.

      2. I agree Michael. I have learned to be wary of early success. I like Toles because of the tools but it will take time to know.

        1. Well I value Nomar’s opinion when it comes to hitting, and he really likes Toles.

          And Nomar doesn’t go out of his way, to complement just any player.

          1. Toles could be awesome, or again have anxiety issues, or not adjust to what mlb pitchers do to exploit a weakness.

            He needs half a season at mlb level before anybody ill know what kind of a player he will be. He doesn’t even have a typical minor league record to help predict him.

  5. If the Dodgers could dump most of McCarthy’s and Kazmir’s contracts I would like to see them over spend on getting both Jansen and Malencon.

        1. Bum

          That sounds good, but it will probably be more.

          But those incentives sound good.

          It is hard because we have to sign Kenley and Turner, to stay about the same..

          And we don’t know what this front office will do.

    1. Bum

      I think if Toles was going to have those problems, we would have saw them by now.

      He did just play in the post season, and started in A ball.

  6. I used to think Chris Anderson could/would make a good late inning relief pitcher, wondering now if he’ll ever get his issues [control?] addressed enough to make the team. Too bad, he has a good fastball when he can get it to go where he wants.

  7. While I do not want to trade Puig and feel that management did not give him a fair shot this past season, I do believe that it’s already been decided that he will be traded. Look, the front office just doesn’t like this guy at all – so, he’s gone. Replace him with Braun or Cespedes if available? I go with Cespedes. He’d be a real difference-maker in the Dodger lineup: he bats right-handed (we need that), 2016 numbers include 31 HR, 86 RBIs, OBP .354, slugging .530, OPS .884. I think it’s a no-brainer IF he becomes available. If not, we’d have to try to close that mythical deal with Milwaukee for Braun. Not my first choice though; Cespedes is better.

    Turner has to be re-signed, there simply is no other 3B option. Kenley also but the guys in the FO remind me of my late beloved but pathologically cheap grandfather and I think they’ll let him go.

    1. It really sounds like Kenley is going to cost a lot.

      He told fellow players, that this was going to be his big pay day.

      Amd it sounds like he is going the Greinke way, and go for the top dollar.

      I think after this post season, Kenley’s value, has went up quite a bit.

      And some teams, might like Kenley much better then one inning Chapman, and I can see why.

      The question about Hatcher, is why is he still on this team?

      1. Kenley cost a lot this year. It’s about whether or not you would pay him for 4 more years at a slight increase in cost.

  8. Adrian:
    I don’t like the Archer trade either. We’re giving up too much for a #2 starter. as far as Cespedes vs Braun is concerned, my vote 100% is for Braun. Cespedes made $27.5MM this year while Braun will average $18MM for the next 4 years and his salary goes DOWN as he ages.
    Just a comparison between Cespedes and Braun on the playing field. The figures are all career averages:
    Cespedes vs Braun:
    BA- .272 vs .304
    OPB.325 vs .367
    Slug .492 vs .544
    OPS- .819 vs .910
    LHP- .263 vs .336
    OBP- .341 vs .404
    Slug%.486 vs .624
    OPS%.827 vs 1.028
    In addition: Fielding % for LF .978 vs 990
    Braun loves Dodger Stadium:
    BA -.346
    OBP.419
    Slug .644
    OPS 1.063
    I didn’t do the figures on Cespedes for DS because the sample was so small.
    I don’t understand why anyone would not prefer Braun and BTW Braun has stolen 40 bases in he last two years in 49 tries(81.6%) a better success rate than even Dee Gordon had.

      1. I do not want either in our clubhouse. Braun is a prima donna and a bit of a jerk……Cespedes can do a lot, but he has had some nagging injuries. Why go for the older players when out RF is only 26? Doesn’t make sense to me.

  9. Adrian.

    You are an Idiot!

    So there is that. You asked for it!

    But I am an idiot too, so I like it!

    In a perfect world I would like to see Kendrick gone, but…

    More later… It’s off to the second round of the High School Sectional tonight. We start tailgating soon. 3 Games away from a State Championship in my son’s senior year. He has 6 touchdowns in his last 5 games – remember Mike Alstott? That’s how he runs and catches and I couldn’t be prouder… win or lose! Hopefully a win…

  10. Want a 2B and leadoff SH? Try Jonathan Villar 62/18 in SB and hits LHP better than RH pitching. Make it a package deal. Of course we’re going to give up some premium talent BUT you have to give up quality to get quality and Braun and Villar are already proven.
    The prospects are just that prospects and for one Pedro Martinez there are dozens of Jerry Sands, etc.

    1. Makes a lot of sense to me but who will the Brewers want/demand. Puig, Stripling, Calhoun, Micah Johnson and a lower level pitching prospect. Would that get it done?

  11. The elimination of the contracts for Utley, Anderson, Howell, Beachy and most of Tabata’s cuts 34 Mil from the payroll with some of that going to arbitration raises. After next season we are currently slated to have 3 “large” contracts in A-Gon, Kershaw and Kazmir (if you want to count McCarthy at 10 mil I wouldn’t argue it). I would prefer we didn’t trade for Braun due to his contract, the eventual skill falloff, the fact that he seems like a jack-wagon with how he handled the steroid issue and is reported to be a prima donna in the club house (we know how the clubhouse loves those types of players). I’m afraid it would be considered a dope-fiend move down the road. If we’re waiting to get out from under Crawford’s, Ethier and A-Gon’s contracts we shouldn’t be looking to extend the problem. I’m really indifferent towards signing Cespedes.
    I was never big on trading of Reddick but it sounds like it was part of the cost of getting Hill plus the fact that at the time Ethier was still supposed to be out the whole year and Puig was supposedly on his way out the door so in retrospect I can understand why they traded for him. Rather than Braun or Cespedes I would like to see what it would take to get Brian Dozier. Including McCarthy or Kazmir probably wouldn’t be much of an enticement since the Twins already have several pitchers like them. Another move we could explore is trading A-Gon to Houston or Texas. Fielder retired and Moreland is a free agent. They need to make a decision on Gallo but haven’t been real keen to play him a lot. One other player it sounds like will be available is JD Martinez. I read somewhere that Detroit’s GM came out and said they probably won’t pursue Martinez due to money and needing to get younger. He’s only 29 and avg/opb/ops of 307/373/908 last year.

  12. We are all just slinging mud out here to try and see what sticks. Some scenarios are possible, others seem a bit far fetched, but that is what the hot stove season is about.

  13. Badger

    Based on your 1927 Yankee comparison, are we on, my 100 push-ups on Cleveland against your 200 on Ruth and Gehrig?

    While were at it, who you picking in the election?

      1. C’mon it’s the 1927 Yankees. Well OK.

        However, we can probably do some business on the election. I will bet 500 push-ups on Trump against your 100 on Jill. Deal?

          1. Sucker bet? Wanna bet?

            I will check back later. Going to watch game at a friend’s house. Was hoping to root for Cleveland a little harder. Sorry 1927 Yanks weren’t good enough for you to give 2 to 1 odds.

          2. I voted today in Iowa. As a Bernie guy, I feel a bit dirty but listening to Stein say that the President can wipe out all student debt, I just couldn’t do it. It’s a great thought, but totally unaware of how gov’t works.

  14. They better not let Jansen or Turner go to the giants. I feel the dodgers won despite front office lack of action in offseason. Them cheap deals aren’t going to work to get to the playoffs for a fifth straight year. Fanbase is getting restless. Moves need to be made.

    1. I totally agree, and the only reason they won is because the Giants went in the crapper. They play .500 ball over that stretch and the Dodgers are the wild card. You cannot win consistently having to have your BP pitch 4 innings a game, and patching holes with patchwork players and retreads……

  15. While I am at it, I wanted to clarify something. I have been asked a number of times why I dislike Yasmani Grandal so much. The reason is simple. I think, and this is my personal opinion, that anyone suspended for or caught using PED’s should be out of the game.. PERIOD. It is my firm belief that if you use them once, you will do it again. And for most, that has been proven to be true. I am especially mad when someone in the organization does it. I do not condone that kind of thing, and if you have to cheat to play, you deserve to be gone. Now why am I hard on this subject. Easy, first, I do not want my grand kids looking up to or idolizing a cheat. Second, in my chosen profession, which was truck driving, we were tested randomly. And sometimes, especially if you worked for a small company, that meant maybe once every 90 days. Since I never have and never will use drugs, I never worried about it. And I never had a positive test. Now the penalty for that in most of the company’s I worked for was immediate termination, no counseling, nor rehab, you got canned. And the state could revoke your license, so now you have no job, and no skills to get a new job. I do not feel that those who are privileged to have the skills to play the game I love, should be treated any different than a truck driver.

    1. Seems to me there is very little discussion about Yasmani’s past PED use in the public media for it to stand out to anyone including your grandchildren. He paid the penalty, didn’t lie about it after he was caught, nor try to take down anyone else’s career like Braun. No second chances for anyone? Yasmani plays a game. He doesn’t get behind the wheel of a truck that could kill someone so to me it is apples and oranges. I respect that you’ve taken your responsibility as a truck driver seriously. All people make mistakes especially if it means making enough money to support your family for life. From my perspective though it us up to us a parents to be role models and explain these issues to our kids not that of the ball player. I feel a bit differently when a player is on TV hocking products to people all of the time. A young man which is what Grandal was at the time, made a mistake and has been tested more so than the average player since and has come up clean. As someone who has a torn labrum and needs surgery so that I can continue to pitch to the kids that I coach or play catch with my four year old when she starts ball next year, I would jump at the chance for a little HGH if it meant my rehab went better and quicker. I dont’ recall if Yasmani was coming off of an injury or not, I guess it doesn’t really matter, but I can certainly empathize with players and the pressure they are under to get healthy under those circumstances.

      1. I get the way you feel, and understand totally. I just am against any kind of drugs period. I have bad knees, ankles, arthritis, and I hate taking aspirin. I do take an anti inflammatory when I feel an attack coming on. I saw too much of it in every industry, including the Army. I also firmly agree that parents need to be the role models and not musicians, movie stars or athletes. A friend of mine’s son is a ball player. He has played in the bigs and last year he was at AAA. He is a pitcher. A couple of years ago, he was trying to rehab from an injury and took I think it was HGH so he could get back quicker. He got tested and caught and suspended 80 games. It was his first offense too. It kind of put me in a quandary with his mom since we are good friends, but I stuck to what I believe and told her he was lucky because to me they should all be out of the game. You are right, truckers can kill people when they are under the influence. And I value my integrity as one who drove trucks. In my mind they should lose their jobs if they test positive. But truckers also get a bad rap as far as accidents go, statistically very few accidents that happen with big rigs are caused by drugs. The biggest cause is sleep depravation. And right up there is 4 wheelers, our pet name for your cars, doing something really stupid in close proximity with a rig. I have had people cut right in front of me on an icy road with no thought of can this guy stop. But that’s another subject. I just am against cheating in any form. As for yourself, as a civilian, I am pretty sure your doctor could prescribe HGH to help you heal quicker. They gave my sister steroids when she had knee surgery. As far as I know Grandal was healthy. But being young is no excuse. There are rules which are explained to every ball player in every organization…..they are iron clad, and should be obeyed……….That is the main reason I feel that Pete Rose does not belong in the HOF. He broke the cardinal rule. And hell, I loved Rose as a player. But I lost respect for the guy a long time ago. And I think that is the gist of why I do not care for Grandal. I do not respect him at all……

        1. Michael, you were in Viet Nam, right? Wasn’t drug usage pretty common there? Did you ever dip your toe in the water? Do you still condemn your fellow troops that fell off the wagon, no forgiveness for them? Just curious…

          1. I spent 9 years in the army. I did not go to Nam. I was in air defense. Drug use was common all through the military in those days. As was alcohol. I was in Germany for 3 years and a year in Korea, the rest of my hitch I was at Ft Bliss in Texas. No, I never dipped my toe in that water. I had too much responsibility at that age. A wife and kids, and making right about 600 dollars a month, I would not have had the money to buy that stuff anyway. I don’t condemn those guys, especially the ones who were in Nam. I had a ton of friends go over there and not one of them came back who was not damaged in some way. But a ball player, making millions of dollars with the potential to make millions more, damn straight I hold those guys accountable for their actions. The guy in the fox hole next to you is counting on you to be alert. Most of those guys only imbibed when they were off duty.

        2. For the record, I never thought there was a drug issue with truck drivers. I always thought pushing it when sleep was needed was a real issue. As for Pete Rose, every time you feel some sympathy for the guy he gets caught in another lie. His records are in the Hall and that’s good enough for me these days.

          1. They have bad people in all different jobs.

            I was critically injured in a car accident by a truck driver.

            And they didn’t have insurance either.

            And I wasn’t even a percentage at fault

        1. I am sorry you were injured by a trucker. That they did not have insurance I find a little weird since it is a requirement in all states in order to get your ICC permit. You should have sued their ass off if you did not get compensation. Their liability requirements are more strict than regular car insurance. By the way, I was in one accident in over 30 years on the road that resulted in the death of someone. Ironically it was the driver who caused the whole thing who was killed. He fell asleep at the wheel and rear ended a pickup hauling a trailer. He lost control and rolled his truck. Happened on I-10 about 30 miles from the Az state line.

          1. Michael
            I know you were a responsible guy, there is bad people in every walk of life.

            The guy didn’t have anything to sue for.

            He killed four people and critically hurt three people, and I was one of the later obviously.

            It was a truck hauling those smashed cars, and it tipped over on a over pass, and landing on us, on the free way.

            He had many violations on his truck.

            His king pin had been welded twice, and all the cables that held on the cars, were frayed.

            This was when the proof of insurance law had already began too.

            The driver tried to walk away from the scene even.

            And the goverment had a lean against this company.

            So you know they didn’t have any money.

            I am just glad I was not one of the people killed.

            The district attorney was suppose to decide whether to charge this guy with man slaughter, but he didn’t.

            This guy was working at Del Taco, at that time, so you know he didn’t have a dime.

    1. I think that is true, and they are banned from the next 2 signing periods…..if memory serves……..they went way over this year.

      1. He must have chose to wait it out when all teams could big on his service. Would be an interesting sign, but from what I’ve read he isn’t near the player of big brother. Doesn’t cost prospect, but might not be ready to fill a hole next year.

        1. Hawkeyes

          I have read and heard the same.

          Are luck with Cubans hasn’t been good.

          Even that Cuban that the Red Sox gave a lot of money to, didn’t do anything at the big league level this year.

          1. Yeah, but he’s looked good. I wish he would have held out for the couple of months the Dodgers asked him to. He would fill our hole at 2B. Early reports on Alvarez sounds like a great signing. Most reports on Diaz have been positive too.

      1. FAZ is a they and I agree they believe in unfailing apodictics that must be supportable by mathematical whyfor. And good luck with that in baseball.

  16. Watching this Cub team — one really has to take their hats off to just how the roster was created. A plan, some money, instructors, coaches, topnotch manager — and here they are. Win or lose, they are here for their fans.

    They have too many solid outfielders, had too many infielders, bunches of catchers (former Dodger in one), and a solid of pitching staff as there is in baseball.

    So what does Dodger ownership do to make changes to get on the right path?

    Dodger outfield: Toles, Ped, and Puig — OK if you want them. But they are ALL a pieces in development and not near ready. Each have many holes in their game.

    Infield – parts of it are old, getting older, and about to get old. They get tired — and some work needs to be done here.

    For starters: don’t even talk to me about – Anderson, Kazmir or McCarthy. Too much IF there all season long. And I am not sure about Maeda more than a #5. Did you see those games at the end . . . he could not hold his own.

    The young guys have to develop: Urias, Stripling, De Leon, and others on the farm.

    Sign Hill? Maybe they will, maybe not.

    But they need a key guy like Hendricks the Cubs have found to help Kershaw.

    What I usually hear about now is — wait for the plan to kick in. Some of the young guys, rent some cheap players to fill in here and there, look for players on the mend from injury, etc. Then hop the Giant fall apart in August or September.

    Wait! FLASH . . . Dodgers looking to sign more out of Cuba. Have sent a 911 call to pick up six ball players laying on the ground in Arizona looking for a new team. Hey, we are set.

    1. Roger

      And Epstein spent some money along the way too.

      Lester wasnt cheap.

      He paid Zobrist, and Lackey, and Heyward, which I think was not a good deal, but Epstein did spend.

      The Cubs have four starting pitchers good enough, to pitch in the post season.

      And right now, we only have one.

      But will Friedman who has only been with a small market team, spend the money when needed.

      When 2018 comes along, I am expecting a team better then the Cubs.

      1. Heyward’s first year. I would not judge that signing yet. Guy has legitimate power and is a plus defender. I remember the Dodgers trading for Dusty Baker and giving up Jimmy Wynn to get him. First year after that trade, Dusty hit .204 with 4 homers. Fans were irate because they loved Wynn……Wynn did little for the Braves, but Dusty was a fixture for the next 7 years.

        1. Michael

          The Cubs tried to change Heywards swing, to try to give him more power.

          Heyward hasn’t hit more then 14 HRs in the last four years.

  17. I don’t want Braun or Cespedes. But Braun is a much better hitter. A tainted batting champion. Cespedes couldn’t do that even with PEDs. Outfield is definitely in play, though. I guess Pederson is a fixture, but I don’t know why. The corners are iffy at best and lack production. I like the idea of some power there, but not those 2 guys. If Reddick were a better hitter, his power might play. They might give him a shot, if he wants it. He has that POTENTIAL. like someone else we know. Jansen and Turner remain the keys. Give them what they want. Young, future starters might not be a bad idea for some of the bullpen. Maybe 2. The rest should be proven guys who can get a couple of guys in a row out once in a while. We are starting out hot in the Pre Hot Stove. I can’t wait to see where it goes.

    1. Reddick is what he is, and average hitter with not much power. And his arm is not all that great. If you are wondering why Pederson is a fixture, it is because he is the best CF on the team. He has legitimate power and he is only 24 years old. So you figure it out. Reddick is history, not one fan I know liked that trade…..Puig is a better fielder than Reddick, and has a much better arm. And also , Reddick is about as good as he is going to get……he has reached his max potential.

  18. This ump is terrible.

    No Reddick. Hill goes east. I doubt Cespedes. Frankly I doubt Braun. Maybe Turner. Jansen is going to cash in somewhere. We have seen how this management team works. Expect more of the same.

    1. Badger

      What is funny is that when any other pitcher has thrown a low ball, like Hendrick did, it wasn’t a strike.

      I am ready for the electronic umps.

      These umps can really change games, especially in the post season.

      It is worse when the umps in NY can’t get a call straight.

      They need to have someone else doing those calls in NY, instead of umps.

      That is like a fox guarding a hen house.

      1. Hard to know MJ. They gave hamburgers like McCarthy, Anderson and Kazmir a lot of money. Maybe in ’19, when all the contracts have cleared. And Kershaw leaves. There will be room then. But, we haven’t really seen them sign the free agent that produces big. Everything has the same smell to it with these guys. Like shopping at a Goodwill store. Hopefully that changes. When? I don’t think soon.

  19. Crepedes likes to play golf more than baseball. Doesn’t run things out. Perhaps Gerren can provide insight, but I think if you sign him you get another head case. Braun would be better but I never liked his inability to own up to his mistakes. Platoon of Toles/Thompson wouldn’t be to bad.

  20. I am a bit incredulous that people think Friedman will not spend big money when his team already has the highest payroll in baseball! Ponder that for a minute and if you don’t get it, there’s nothing else I can add.

    1. Mark

      The only real big money that the front office has spent has been on McCarthy, Kazmir, and Anderson.

      I can say some other small contracts, but that isn’t big money, by baseball standards.

      And I think Friedman’s biggest money spent probably was on Longoria.

      That is my biggest concern, and that is the biggest difference I see in Friedman, and Epstein.

      1. MJ,

        Here’s the point of why they would not spend big:

        #1 – In Tampa they did not have the money (I think that’s easy to understand, so how is that even relevant?). Boston and Epstein had triple the payroll – how can you spend money you don’t have? This is not the US Government!

        #2 – How many GM’s have taken over teams that have 5 players under contract for $122 million a year? Do you think the Cubs would be close to what they are now, if Epstein had a payroll like that for the first 2 to 4 years?

        It’s like some kid saying “My dad beat up your dad.” when the other kids dad was in a body cast. Geeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz. Think people!

        It’s not that Friedman won’t spend money – he just wants to spend it wisely and he did by not entering into more bad deals like Kemp, Ethier, Crawfish and Gonzalez! Spending money on big contracts is generally stupid.

        1. I painfully agree. Sometimes I want the player but I never want that big contract hanging over the team and inhibiting future improvements.. It is very rare to nonexistent that a player remains productive for the full length of the contract. How about front loading contracts to make it easier to trade withering stars? When a player asks for an opt-out, tell him, “Sure, as long as we have the same right. Otherwise, a contract is a contract.”

          1. Most teams are fully aware of this phenomenon and plan accordingly. The plan for many, including the Dodgers is to extend the contract out. Look at some of the players we have continued to pay for years after they are gone. All teams do it. And when you think about it, it’s the American way. Can’t afford it? No problem, just borrow the money! You can pay us later.

            Front loading sounds like a good idea, but paying guys like Kershaw and Greinke $40 million now might look bad and therefore be a hard sell. Paying chalupas like Andruw Jones a few million several years after he’s disappointed and disappeared is easier to hide. It shows up way down at the bottom of your payroll sheet. It’s like that $3.5 million going to Matt Kemp until 2019. Who’s going to notice?

        2. Mark

          Sometimes you have to pay a little more, to get better pitchers, or players.

          That is just a fact.

          Lester is a good signing now for the Cubs, but he might not be, toward the end of his contract, but sometimes you just have to take the loss at the end, to get a better pitcher, or player.

          That kind of thing, is what I am wondering about.

          I know for a while the Longoria contract didn’t look to good either.

          But like you said they are going to have to give Corey a good contract, to buy some of his free agent years.

          These kind of things, is what I am wondering about.

  21. The curse of the goat will be replaced with the curse of Bill Murray and the stupidest rendition of the 7th inning stretch ever.

    1. I thought it was great. Fans sure seemed to enjoy it. Didn’t work though.

      Down 2-1. This is where the Cubs woke up against the Dodgers. The Indians don’t appear intimidated do they.

      1. No they don’t. In fact, here at “Simple as 123” we have our new odds out on a Cleveland Championship, 50%. What do the dolts at 754 say now?

        Some of us could see Cubs were built to get to playoffs not win. You still seeing 1927 Yankees?

        1. Dolts? I thought you FAZ guys were all about the numbers? And if so, you would respect what it is the 538 guys have accomplished. They are very good at what they do. And, the new numbers they put up this morning have the Indians favored by 63%. Since you didn’t accept the 62-38, and I didn’t accept your 200 to whatever, it’s now turned around and YOU have to do the 63. Are we on? A simple yes or no will suffice. If you aren’t interested in that offer, I’m out.

          Honestly I really don’t give a rat’s ass who wins this series. It’s Chicago and Cleaveland, two cities that mean nothing to me. I’m a West guy. What I’m interested in now is the Washington Huskies getting into the BCS playoff, the Lakers showing improvement and the Rams getting to .500.

          1. We FAZ guys do put a high value on “the numbers”, but, they have to be the right numbers. We also put a high value on scouting, coaching, etc.

            I guess we can’t do business on the World Series. As I stated, we here at 123, have updated our World Series odds to 50%. Considered all the latest sabermetric info, even factored in luck. Doesn’t matter what the millennials think, remember no experience!

            Happily, I still think we can do some business on the election. You previously posted the 538 guys odds on Crooked Hillary winning the election. Wasn’t it 80%. I am sure we can find some common ground here. Let me know! We could both use some exercise.

          2. Badger, what you don’t get is that by them changing the number after making a prediction, they have admitted their original call was incorrect, as is their correction and any future predictions and therefore any value they might have. All of us thought the Cubs were more likely to win the series than the Indians. After the first game, we re-evaluated; after each possible changing event, we did so again. most people do. Few of us try to sell others that we are infallible, that we can always predict the winners. You want to buy into their con, feel free. Jimmy Swaggart and Oral Roberts convinced a lot of people too. hell, I used to live about 3 miles from the Crystal Cathedral….

          3. I’m not talking election here box. I’ll leave it at this, this country has lost its collective mind.

            My take on those odds is a bit different Wonder. There is no correct or incorrect as it’s data driven by what the information says at this moment. Given the available data, 62% a day ago was accurate. The Cubs were favored last night. They are in fact favored in every game going forward except game 7. And think about that for a moment.

            I’ll admit a lot of theses evolving numbers games I don’t completely get. I don’t think like that. I’m from the abstract model. But reading 538 MLB I find interesting. It’s like an adventure for me. Reading fangraphs is the same ride. If you haven’t read their stuff I recommend it.

      2. Badger

        We will see.

        The Cubs woke up once the Dodgers didn’t have there good pitching.

        We will see tonight, but Kluber is pitching only on three days rest.

        It isn’t a coincidence that the Cubs get shut out with good pitching, and suddenly they wake up for average pitching.

        Like I said before, most of there big hits against us, were on hangers.

        And there biggest hit was on two hangers in a row.

        The Cubs should be more ready then the Indians, because the Cubs were playing longer, and the Indians were waiting for the National League winner.

        And about that umpire they have places on the internet that they tract strikes, and balls.

        That umpire gave the Cubs, nine pitches, that were not strikes, that were called strikes.

        And nine pitches by the Indians, that were strikes, were called balls.

        Everybody is trying to give this World Series to the Cubs!

        1. That umpire was equally bad for both teams.

          The Cubs won 103 regular season games with an astonishing +267 run differential. In the playoffs they beat the giants and whooped ass on the Dodgers. They didn’t accomplish all that by only beating up on inferior pitching.

          1. Badger

            There starting pitching is also a big part of there run differential.

            You know that the best teams don’t always win.

            The Giants wasn’t the best team in baseball, when they won it all, in all of those three years.

            The biggest thing I see with the Cubs, is there starting pitching.

            And not that they don’t have good young position players, because they do.

            But that is also the reason, that they can be beat in a short series, by good pitching.

            Young players tend to be much more agressive.

            Baez looked just like Joc, when he swung at that last high pitch.

            That is because those two, are still learning how to hit.

          2. Badger

            The Cubs didn’t hit the Giants starting pitching.

            They beat the Giants bullpen.

            The only big hit off the Giants starting pitching, was when Arrietta hit that three run HR off Bumgarner.

            The Dodgers two top starters, shut the Cubs out, until Kershaw pitched in his second game, and didn’t have any of his good off speed pitches.

            And Kershaw didn’t locate his fastball much, if at all, in that last game.

            Take a look at the runs the Cubs got off the Giants starters.

        1. And another thing – why is what Bill Murray did there such a problem? It wasn’t for anyone watching at home, that was for the Cubs fans at the ballpark, and they all appeared to love it! Lighten up people.

          1. Badger

            I am not up in arms about that, but it must have been a inside thing, for Cubs fans.

            Because I didn’t get it.

          2. Actually Daffy and one of the damn dumbest thing that I have ever seen. It’s just like the Chicago Cubs to hand a drunk the microphone and hope for the best. They did it for years. I’m sure the front office and the network were holding their collective breaths when he didn’t start the song on cue. I know plenty of Cubs fans who thought it was stupid. I thought he was going to fire up the crowd at first and it had more of a Clint Eastwood at the Republican convention affect.

          1. You didn’t know the difference between Donald Duck and Daffy Duck? Sheltered life!!

            Next thing you will be telling us is, you didn’t know the difference between Alfred E. Neuman and Oblama. The following will help.

      1. Actually Daffy. Damn dumbest thing I’ve ever seen and I like Bill Murray. I thought he was going to really fire up the crowd there and I know that’s not his job necessarily but I think there was plenty of WTF in that crowd. Typical of the Chicago Cubs to hand a drunk the microphone though. I’m sure their front office and the Networks were holding their collective breaths when he didn’t start the song on cue.

    2. Did you ever see Ozzy Osborne do Take Me Out to the Ballgame at Wrigley? Funny for all the wrong reasons! But it was funny.

    1. That’s valid. I know I am. Yeah, they’re good, and good for them. But, really, my heart is nowhere near Chicago.

      It’s football season. Watching young Cubs and a team from Cleveland run around in snow gear is causing me to lose interest. I picked the Cubs but I’m not at all attached to any outcome. I think I might just allow those fans all the excitement they deserve and move my attention to something else. I have important yard work to do.

      I heard some tickets to last nights nationwide snooze fest were going for as much as $3,700 and tickets for game 5 are listed (not sold yet) for $6,000. Damn. Those Cubs fans really care.

      1. Badger

        I know your not into them.

        I’m not a winter person either.

        Because of money, I don’t think the owners will shorten the season.

        I think they need to start the season, about two or three weeks earlier, so they are not playing these games when it is this cold.

        1. Spoken like a true Californian….. Actually, it can be this cold in March or even early April in the Northeast. I think they will shorten the season. It appeases the players and the public. Any financial shortfall can be easily recovered by raising ticket/parking/concession prices. Remember “fan” is short for “fanatic”, they will continue rushing into the stadiums and buying over-priced beer, hot dogs, “team jerseys”, etc. In my “exalted” opinion, all intelligent fans (an oxymoron) quit going to games when TV coverage became available.

          1. Wondering

            And I am proud to be one.

            But at least if we start earlier, we know it is only going to get warmer and better.

            And your right about TV like my dad always said why do you want to go see the game in person, when you can see it better on TV.

            But there is such a big difference, but without having Vinny on your radio, it won’t be the same, to go to the stadium.

          2. I was one for almost 40 years and I’ll say it’s the best place in the world to live…if they’d just get about 80% of the people out of there… I grew up in Indiana so I have no use for cold weather either. I am probably not anywhere close to being a real baseball fan anymore. I only follow the Dodgers. I gave up cable TV a few months ago but for the last five years or so I did watch Dodger games on TV. Sorta. I DVRed them, then zipped through watching the interesting parts. Worked out fine since I go to bead early, 8PM or so. Strange life, I can’t explain it. Needless to say, never married, and I’m not gay, don’t smoke, drink, or use drugs. Weird life.

        2. Start earlier and you will still have snow in some of those citys…..go back to a 154 game schedule, change the first round to 7 games, and make the wild card best of 3.

      1. Understood. Women really don’t have a sense of humor. Flintstones and Jetsons had a facade of domesticity in them that girls could relate to. Even Mickey and Minnie didn’t have a typical relationship.

        1. Yes, almost UnAmerican! Next thing she probably is going to tell us is that she didn’t like and watch “The Three Stooges”.

          1. My humor has a wide range, loved Martin and Lewis when I was a kid, I did not like Jack Benny, way too droll for me. All favorite was and always will be Red Skelton. For pure side splitting though it is tough to beat Robin Williams. He was nuts! And I love the Stooges. Favorite cartoon, easy…..the Road Runner…………

  22. I am empressed with the Cubs starting pitching, more then anything else.

    They have four starters, that can pitch well in the post season.

    And we have only had three, with Kershaw, Greinke, and Ryu.

    And we know Lackey is going to work the umpire tonight.

    And Rizzo was once again, kissing a umps A last night.

    1. I’m much more impressed (empressed?) by the Tribe’s pitching, which is also locked up for quite a while and has Salazar and Carrasco coming back from injury.

      1. Wondering

        My family is from Indiana.

        My mom was from Martinsville, and my father was from a very
        small town.

        How did you end up in Orange County, after living in Indiana, and in New England?

        1. No New England, just Kentucky-Indiana-Nevada-California-Nevada. No memories of Kentucky, left it when I was about 3. Lots of good memories about southern Indiana and Las Vegas in the late 50s, early 60s. It was a small town then, about 50,000 people including North Las Vegas and Henderson. And Lake Mead was wonderful. Now Las Vegas is everything that is bad about Los Angeles, and in a smaller bowl… I live halfway between Las Vegas and Death Valley. You can see millions of stars at night and hear a car drive by two streets over. One acre lots, 30,000 people scattered over 300 square miles. I don’t know a single one of my neighbors (only lived here 12 years…). A place where a weirdo can be himself…

          1. Wondering

            I thought New England because I mentioned the Patriots.

            I was brought to California, when I was only a month old, so this is all I know.

          1. Mark
            Really I didn’t know that!

            I was going to ask you if any of your kids played basket ball.

            Because you know that is king in Indiana.

            It is a good thing your tall, because your wife looks just a little taller then me.

            And your son is a nice size.

  23. I know no one here really has a good answer but maybe one or two have a creditable “in the ballpark” estimate. So here goes:
    If we had beaten the Cubs in 7 games and the Indians in 7 games, how many more millions would be in the bank?
    ANYONE here “closer to the pulse” have a GOOD estimate??

    1. I imagine there would have been additional money into the clubs account. But we as fans would never know of it. And, worse yet, from our flawed point of view, it could have effected negative results. The billionaires may have considered their quest finished, their having delivered to us faithful fans a championship, promptly cut funding to the club and lived off the farm and past glory until they find a sucker to unload the team on as they laugh all the way to the bank and Dodger fans sink into more decades of misery…

      1. Think return on investment. It’s all about fan involvement. We buy the tickets, we buy the merchandise, we are the market for the tv advertising – winning brings out the fan interest. Look at what is happening in those cities still in this thing. The money is flowing like the Cuyahoga.

        Yeah, when the Dodgers reach the top, their value will increase. I think you can count on that. I think Guggs do.

        1. They could always cut stadium capacity a little. The Giants have been selling their games out for the last few years. The Dodgers sell out maybe 10 times a year.

  24. I think I better declare myself a “timeout”. I’m posting too much, getting too personal with other posters and even exposing myself! Sayonara.

  25. On the game last night: Interesting how the lack of DH upsets the use of high impact relief pitchers in the middle of the game. You have to pinch hit for them. Of course, with a lead, that isn’t a problem. Not the best formula. I guess it shows you have to have a bunch of these guys. Or better yet, some starting pitchers who can pitch 7 innings. Just like high school. Where are they? Identify our starting pitchers who you can confidently predict can pitch 7 innings: I bet you can’t name 3. Even that is a stretch. We have to find those guys somewhere, maybe spring training. Hopefully spring training.

    1. 7 innings. 105 pitches. Every Major League pitcher should be able to throw 105 pitches. Not every pitcher can do that and go 7 effectively. We have only a couple on our roster. I think Urias and De Leon will get there. Maeda can on occasion. This year we used the bullpen more than darn near everybody.

  26. So Jose Fernandez had a BA of .147 and cocaine in his system. I wonder all of his teammates still love him and if all of his fellow Cubans in FLA feel the same way.
    Just adds some credence to Michaels statements earlier about not idolizing athletes too much.

    1. I doubt if there’s a person on earth surprised by that toxicology report. Love???? I find that people are more likely to love someone for their faults than for their virtues. It is easier to like someone when we know they, like us, have some faults. Fortunately, God is forgiveness, I am told…

        1. I do too. I feel for his whole family. That information has everyone saying “oh no”. It’s bad enough he’s gone. But this? A drunk driving accident? In his boat. Horrible news. Not all that surprising, but horrible news.

      1. Wondering said “I find that people are more likely to love someone for their faults than for their virtues”
        ….. So that is why you are so much of a Trump fan and have hatred of Hillary 😉

    2. Hi Tim!

      He was young, and he made a mistake.

      But that might explains his out going personality.

      I know a lot people here, wanted Fernandez on the Dodgers.

      But I was concerned because it looked like he threw as hard as he could, on every pitch he threw.

      So I thought he might get injured to soon, and he just had that TJ surgery, not to long ago.

  27. If you think about it, the Marlins have had some pretty bad things, happen with there players lately.

    First they sign Gordon to that multi year contract, and then they find out he was using steroids.

    I was not a big Gordon fan, and I thought that was a mistake to give him that contract, after only one year.

    I was never impressed with Dee.

    And then they have this happen to Fernandez, and his free agency was coming up, and the Marlins, could have gotten a lot of good prospects, from Fernandez.

    1. Dee came back and scored 47 runs in 79 games. That’s closing in on 100 over 162. He also stole 30 bases. He put up .8 WAR for $3.3 million. Not bad for a half year’s work. He makes $7.8 million next year. He’ll probably earn it. After that? 10, 13, 13.8 and 14 million. Maybe, maybe not. But for that money I wish we still had him.

      1. Badger

        I didn’t think Gordon was a gamer.

        He often crumbled under pressure, and that is why he couldn’t play shortstop.

        And he was given a lot of chances to play, and start at shortstop, but he would make bad throws.

        He also use to over slide, when he stoled a base.

        And he hurt his finger a believe twice, while trying to steal a base.

        And he got most of these chances, probably because his dad played Major League Baseball.

          1. Bum

            I have never been a Gordon person.

            And I don’t like when some players, get more chances then others.

            Just like when Reddick was constantly played, and he not only didn’t deserve it, and playing him, wasn’t best for the team.

          2. Reddick got playing time because FAZ wanted to justify that he made the right choice in trading for Reddick and Hill. So we lose 3 good prospects for rentals. Neither will be back in LA next year.

        1. MJ, Gordon got chances because he was a top prospect. Not because his dad was a big leaguer. The kid has legitimate skills, and his speed. Sometimes you act like these guys all need to be perfect. There is not a player in the majors who does not have flaws in his game. For all his natural tools, Puig has holes. But every single teams scouts will tell you the guy is a 5 tool player. He had problems at SS, but Steve Sax had almost the same problem. Garvey was moved to 1st base because as a 3B he had problems throwing to first. But he became an all star. Now, I do not condone Dee using PED’s. The is a no no in my book. But you cannot hide the fact that the kid won a batting title last year and was near the top of the league in steals. And he is an exciting player to watch. He was more exciting to watch than 85% of the roster the Dodgers fielded this year. It is like Pederson. The guy was the organization’s top prospect, so he will get more chances than others.

          1. Weren’t you just rambling about your dislike of Grandal due to steroids?

            Doesn’t that same shade extend to Gordon?

          2. No MJ, he was not on steroids, he was using a supplement, like a lot of players do that had something banned in it. If he was using steroids his body would have changed and he would have bulked up. Big difference. I do not condone what he did, but the kid has skill, and he is only 28. You want to see what a steroid user looks like check out the physical change in Barry Bonds from when he was a Pirate to his career as a Giant. He got huge, and he was very skinny like McCutcheon is.

          3. You are trying too hard Michael Norris. In both cases you are taking illegal substances to get an edge.

            You can try to use semantics, but both Grandal and Gordon were doing the same thing with different ingestibles.

            You can hold some silly “grudge” (don’t know the better term) but it’s the same for the goose and the gander.

          4. Bluto, A I was not defending the guy and it is not a grudge. I do not condone drug usage in any form to enhance performance, and I do not want any player on my team who used the crap period. We were talking about Dee’s play as a Dodger before it was discovered he used PED’s. Do not assume stuff. Braun, Dee, and Grandal, I do not want any of them. They are all cheaters….you like them, Fine, I am entitled to think and feel what I want.

        2. You were obviously not watching the same kid I was. He had bad games, but even as a first year starter he hit .289. Scored 92 runs, the only player we had in that stratosphere was Seager. His worst trait that season was too many K’s. He cut those down by 16 last year. He stole 69 bags that season too. The kid is a gamer, and he played hard. He jammed his thumb sliding into third and that’s when his average dropped a little.

          1. Maybe we don’t think of the same thing, about what a gamer is.

            I know he tried hard, but baseball wasn’t what he wanted to play.

            He didn’t have good baseball instincts.

            His first love was basket ball.

          2. Bluto

            I like Michael, he just watched the kid, before he was caught.

            It seems like most players have Florida in common with that stuff.

  28. Interesting situation: let’s say Fernandez was rained out on that fishing trip that day and did not go out of the dock. Later he is back at the ball park, and an extra test just happens to have his name on the tube. Then it is found out about the foreign substance in the test — and he is suspended . . . for a bunch of days.

    These guys got to get the message — you want to play professional baseball — you sign a contract — you do not use banded stuff (what ever it is). Not because you are prude, nor not a real man — because I and the rest of the baseball world are counting on you to be there, ready, as agreed = clean as a whistle.

    A day or two off, even for a starting pitcher, does not mean you can cheat with this stuff. Gee, I remember Steve Howe . . .

    1. Roger I had no idea cocaine was still a drug MLB players were using. PEDs yeah. Marijuana, sure, but cocaine? The word on that has been out for years. Cocaine is a mistake from the 80s.

  29. I would like to see some of these smart teams try those shifts on Rafael Furcal… Remember those bunts he used to send to the shortstop, nothing he could do but take a bite out of it….

    1. Wondering

      Even the slowest runner on the team, can bunt and make it to first safely, if the third baseman, is the only one on the left side of the infield, and they are playing were short normally plays.

      That is how Joc is defended sometimes.

      I just don’t understand why these kids don’t know how to bunt.

      The idea is just get the bunt passed the pitcher, and you could jog to first and make it safely.

      It seems like our young players, are trying to get out of the batters box, way to soon.

      They just need to square around fully, and just get the bunt down, then take off.

      1. The kids get away with it because today’s managers are stupid. Roberts is not a smart manager. And FAZ likes it that way.

        1. Come on Wonder. Why say something like that? Its a weird thing to say. You don’t even say Roberts is dumb because he …….

      2. MJ, I think pitchers try to put the ball in a location that makes it hard to bunt toward third when a shift is on to the right side of the infield.

        1. Bum

          I wish it was that, and it isn’t just Joc.

          When you bunt you only bunt a strike, or good pitch, to bunt, if there is no play.

      3. Most power hitters…aka Pederson, are not adept at that skill. One reason is that it is not practiced much during the season. They work on it in spring, but not much at all in their pre game workouts. I remember when I was a kid seeing guys playing pepper before games, and if you got there during batting practice you would see guys bunting when they first got in the cage…

  30. I will be happy to get Braun if the Dodgers get him for McCarthy, Kazmir, and Puig and no cash involved. Even happier if Ethier is included in the deal.

  31. Great to see a fan crowd get excited about their team like these Cub fan are. Win or lose, they have their World Series.

      1. Bum

        The wind blowing in, is an advantage for the Indians, because they don’t try to always hit it out.

        Most of there line up, hit line drives.

  32. Why don’t they try to dump puig on the Mets, they are cheap and roll the dice on a puig for a matt Harvey trade toss in Brandon McCarthy. If Harvey comes back healthy great if he doesn’t puig is gone and McCarthy is too and you may only have to eat half his cost.

      1. Bum

        He just wants McCarthy and Kazmir out of his sight!

        And if Ethier didn’t have a way to veto any trade, he wants him out of his sight too!

        And he will take Harvey even if he is missing one rib, and we don’t know if he will ever pitch again.

        That is wanting to get rid of someone badly.

  33. I am headed to PHX tomorrow. I plan to see the Desert Dogs play the Saguaros in Surprise on Monday afternoon. Hopefully Cody stays hot!

    So, Kenley is the best Reliever in the NL? OK…

    1. Mark

      I saw that on Kenley.

      He did pitch really well in the post season, we can’t take that from him.

      The more he pitched, the better he got.

      That is why I think he is going to get a big contract, and hopefully, the Giants don’t sign him.

      You must admitt, that Kenley looked much better then Chapman did, in this post season.

  34. My biggest question is why you’d trade for Archer instead of re-sign Hill.

    Hill’s not going to sign for many years, fits into a plan to gradually incorporate home-grown talent, and is at least twice the pitcher Archer was last year.

    1. I’m all for Hill at 3 years/$45 million, but I think Boston will pay more. I also think Archer can be a lot better on a better team, but he’s going to cost us a lot of prospects. I vote for Hill. If Ryu comes back healthy, this could be our Rotation:

      1. Kershaw
      2. Hill
      3. Urias
      4. Ryu
      5. Kazmir

      That could be – all lefties! I’m not sure that is healthy…

      But, Kaz and Ryu might not be either.

      1. I agree Archer would be better on a better team.

        He has really good stuff, and he is a smart kid.

        And your right, the Red Sox need a number two pitcher badly too.

      2. Given the dearth of RH power hitters, I’m not sure it’s the worst thing in the world.

        I’d go more than 15 per for Hill, if the term can be kept at 3. I think he’s exactly what this team needs.

        Provided the blisters can be managed, which you have to presume they can be….

        Right?

  35. Anybody remember NED/McCourt trading Carlos Santana to Cleveland for Casey Blake? At the time, it was said money rather than Santana would have got it done.

      1. Better than Jason Schmidt deal. Much much worse than Kemp deal. Probably a push with Wilson deal. No, worse than Wilson deal.

  36. Any of you Dodger Therapy guys heard the rumor that the quack wants to take his snake oil sales business to Chicago? I heard business is very slow in LA. Seems nobody, but, a few deranged individuals want to boycott Dodgers. However, the snake oil quack sees green pastures with his new website “Cubs Therapy”.

      1. Yes, I think Hawkeye also saw this coming. Good job MJ. Hard to believe some compared Cubs to 1927 Yankees. I guess they never heard of Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig or “Murderer’s Row”.

  37. Franconia is a better manager then Maddon.

    He just doesn’t like the media much.

    Everytime he sees a camera on him, he flips them off, so they stop.

  38. Didn’t get to see all of tonight’s game. Had to take my son on a zombie paintball shooting. Then we were out looking for a goats mask and an Indians hat for a costume. Found every damn animal except a goat.

    1. Hawkeye

      That is ok you were just being a good father.

      I don’t know if that was the case, with your costume idea, unless you were wearing the goats head, when you took your kids out.

  39. Well, it’s not over. The Cubs are capable of coming back – It’s just that I’m not sure if the Indians are capable of giving up 3 loses in a row.

    Look, the Cubs were the best team… on paper, but they have to play the game. The only predictions I make on which team will win, is when the game involves my team. Then, I predict my team will win. You never know what will happen.

    If the Cubs lose, then they came a step closer. They will likely win one soon.

    Here’s a quote from Theo shortly after he was hired:

    “We’re going to build the best baseball operation we can. We’re going to change the culture. Our players are going to change the culture along with us in the major league clubhouse. We’re going to make building a foundation for sustained success a priority. That will lead to playing October baseball more often than not. Once you get in in October there’s a legitimate chance to win the World Series.”

    Epstein vowed to build a better scouting and farm system for the Cubs.

    “We won’t rest until there is a steady stream of talent” going to Wrigley Field from the minors.

    “We’re going to have to grind our way to the top,” he said.

    You could just as easily substitute the name Friedman for the name Epstein.

    Friedman is two years in and doing it differently than Theo by mandate of the owners, but the Dodgers might be ahead of the Cubs after two years. The Dodgers have remained competitive and have started changing the culture. Next year, it might be us in the fall classic – the “steady stream of talent” has started. No all of it is from FAZ – that’s a fact, but the system is deeper than it has ever been.

    Hopefully the Dodgers can sign Hill, Jansen and Turner (without making a dope-fiend move) to keep the system stable. It would be nice if they could trade Gonzo and Ethier and while I realize Puig possesses immense talent, how long do we wait? I would be down with the trade of a prospect or two but I’d rather build from within.

    To that end, I would not sign a FA that would cost us a pick. You have to keep re-loading. Would we be able to package Puig, Ethier, McCarthy, Kendrick, Hernandez and Gonzo (and some salary) in a three or four way deal and get Braun and a second-baseman? If Andre was told he will not start in 2017, he would likely trade his no-trade clause… especially if he went to AZ. I’m sure FAZ will try and do that. The question is “Are there any takers?”

    We have had this conversation about Guerrero and Crawfish – not only could we not trade them, no one would take them for the MLB minimum. Ethier and Gonzo have big contracts that the Dodgers would have to pay at least half.

    I think we could integrate Bellinger this year, if we had a good 2B… maybe Howie is the guy? Put him at 2B and let him fight for a new deal at 34.

    Lineup:

    1. Toles RF
    2. Seager SS
    3. Braun LF
    4. Turner 3B
    5. Bellinger 1B
    6. Pederson CF
    7. Grandal C
    8. Kendrick 2B

    1. Mark, it might be just you and me that are willing to trade Gonzales. We probably differ in that I would also trade Grandal.

      I only want Braun if the Dodgers can get the Brewers to pay a year of Braun’s contract and take McCarthy and Puig.

      I would like to trade Grandal to Texas for Lucroy. Lucroy is up for a Gold Glove and Grandal is not so there is that. I think Lucroy would be a better hitter against lefties.

      Trea Turner is much like Toles in that pitchers haven’t had much time to find and exploit their weaknesses but I still try to get him. Verdugo is probably a safer bet for success than is Trea Turner but I still make that trade and would add Calhoun. That gives the Nationals a future CF and second baseman that can pound the ball.

      I think it might be fair to Gonzales if he could finish his career in San Diego in a three team trade.
      A. Gonzales, Barnes, and $20M to San Diego.
      B. Ethier, Kazmir, and De Jong to AZ.
      C. Greinke and Noris to LA.

      1. Toles RF
      2. Trea Turner 2B
      3. Seager SS
      4. Turner 3B
      5. Braun LF
      6. Pederson CF
      7. Lucroy C
      8. Bellinger 1B

      Kershaw, Stewart, Stripling, Urias, De Leon, Buehler, Ryu, Wood
      Those guys should get the Dodgers rotation through the season.

      1. Bum,

        I love Turner but he would cost a ton. Calhoun just needs to get his glove on. 2B is the only place for him. I think Howie in the 8 hole wouldn’t look bad. I can’t see any way they get Lucroy although I like him.

        Calhoun improved his D this year. He needs another big step forward.

        1. Probably true Mark but it doesn’t change what I want for the team.

          Maybe a better three team trade would be:

          LA sends Gonzales, McCarthy, Jordan Sheffield, and Puig to Brewers.
          Brewers sends Gonzales and $20M to San Diego.
          San Diego sends Noris to AZ.
          LA sends Kazmir and Ethier to AZ.
          AZ sends Greinke to LA

    1. I would also consider trading Puig and Calhoun for Trea. Puig would be able to replace Turner in CF now for the Nationals and Calhoun would eventually replace their second baseman as a Murphy clone.

      That probably ends the Braun to LA trade but I am more than okay with that. Toles, Pederson, Thompson, Ethier, Kendrick, SVS can take care of the outfield in 2017.

  40. My favorite lineup as of now is as follows:

    1. Trea Turner 2B
    2. Toles LF
    3. Justin Turner 3B
    4. Seager SS
    5. Pederson CF
    6. Lucroy C
    7. Bellinger 1B
    8. Puig RF
    8.

    1. Bum

      The thing about Agone is, that we don’t know if there is anyone who could play and hit as well as Agone can, at the Major League level, in our minor league system.

      If you are questioning Toles, how can you asume Bellinger is going to hit at the major league level.

      Just like someone here mentioned, Bellinger has not hit at a very high average, in the minors, let alone at the major league level.

      Like I already said, Agone in the post season, even with not great stats, still hit in as many runs as Turner, if not more, and that would be the most on the team.

      And if Bellinger is another player that doesn’t hit for a decent average in the majors, and he is an all or nothing type hitter, this team can’t have another hitter like that in the line up.

      It is bad enough when Joc and Grandal are not hitting at the end of our line up.

      They make a pitchers work to easy, when they are just not hitting, and they make our line up shorter, because of that.

      1. MJ, why do you insist on saying stuff that is not factual such as: “It is bad enough when Joc and Grandal are not hitting at the end of our line up”?

        I like Joc. I liked Loney as well. I never said they were great. Hopefully Joc continues to get better and not wind up disappointing me like Loney did. I liked Kemp and Gordon as well but I moved on.

        Bellinger can use another half season at AAA but he might just be ready enough too. The Dodgers have a chance to have a bunch of pitchers and position players play together for years that are fast and young. I am anxious for that to happen. Maybe too anxious but still I am ready to move on to a young team now.

        1. I do not think MJ bases most of her takes on statistics. She tends to focus sometimes on what she sees a particular player doing. She sees Joc as an all or nothing type hitter and did not I think notice that he had changed his approach, after the first half that was mostly unspectacular, and he actually hit pretty well the last couple of months. He hit 300 in September. She saw Toles come up and do well, but was not seeing the fact that the pitchers were figuring the kid out and his average dropped over 100 points the last couple of weeks. Bellinger, who I have seen play, has a lot of potential, but there is that word again. Potential. Until you prove yourself in the big leagues, and sometimes it takes a few years, you have nothing but potential. I liked Loney, he actually drove in a lot of runs including a LA Dodgers record of 9 in a single game. None of their HOF players ever did that. Pederson and Grandal do strike out a lot. But it is more because they have holes that major league pitchers expose, than because they are not good players. I like Pederson a lot better than Grandal because he is a more complete player than Grandal and is far superior defensively. Toles to me is an unknown, and I for one am a little leery of throwing him out there everyday against all comers. Especially when you have a guy like Thompson coming back who if not injured would probably have blocked Toles from getting to the majors because the guy has power, speed and a great glove. A-Gone is a great player and although his power has gone down some, he still drives in runs. Turner they need to sign because they have no real option over there. I think if he is not signed, you will see Kendrick over there a lot more than he was this season. They have a lot of players who can play 2nd base, but 3rd base options are limited. I do not believe they will pick up an A class pitcher, but the bullpen will be retooled, then will address the OF overload and most likely choose a permanent 2nd base option from the players they have on the MLB roster, and in the minors.

          1. Michael
            I did notice Joc adjust at times, and that got me excited for him, but he doesn’t adjust consistently.

            And when I know Joc is capable of changing his approach, but he doesn’t continue to do that, especially with two strikes, and with runners are in scoring position, it is frustrating.

            Both Joc and Grandal at times, get caught up, in over swinging, on every pitch, because they want to hit it out.

            I agree that we don’t know what Toles will do playing everyday, with the pitchers, adjusting on him, but he deserves to get a chance, to play everyday, and see what he can do.

            Joc got that chance all last year, even though he didn’t hit much, past the first two months of the season.

            Before Joc got hurt and went out, he was almost on the same path, with his hitting, like the year before.

            But Joc got hurt, and went on the DL.

            And when Joc went out on the DL, he was at a crossroads with his career.

            And once Joc saw Toles come up and was hitting, Joc started to try to find out what he was doing wrong.

            He wanted to find out why he was not hitting, so he looked at his old films, and he made some adjustments, that he thought he needed to make, to hit well again.

            And that is why Joc came back, and started hitting better.

          2. Michael

            If you don’t count the only ten games, that Joc played in, in July, Joc only hit at a decent average, in April, which was 264, and in September when he hit 298.

            The thing that I don’t agree with Bum about, is that Joc is the second best hitter on the team.

            And Bum thinks this, because Joc has the second highest OPS on the team, if I don’t count Toles’ OPS.

            There is no way that Joc is a better hitter, then Turner, or even Agone.

            Joc has hit more HRs then Agone this year, but he isn’t a better hitter, then Agone, as well as Turner.

            Joc only had 100 hits this year, but he also struck out 130 times.

            I think Joc is still learning how to hit.

            And about Toles, Toles hit in his first at bat in the majors.

            And his batting points did drop, but it was still better, then anyone on the team, except Corey maybe.

            And Toles did this, in two and a half months, and he wasn’t getting to start and play almost everyday, like Joc.

            And it is harder to hit when your not getting consistent at bats, but he still hit better then most in the line up, in those two and a half months.
            And he has speed that no one else, but Puig have on this team too.

          3. MJ, the point is this. Pederson and Toles are different kinds of hitters. Pederson is more of a power guy, and they all tend to strike out more. Kemp when he was here struck out a lot. Even when he was hitting .300. But he was a far cry from what he was as a rookie and youngster. He learned and Joc will too. Joc is only 24. He is a babe in the woods baseball wise. Toles is a contact hitter who rely’s on speed and making constant contact. He is also a young man, but until the guy has played a full season in the bigs, you have no idea what he is really going to be like. You judge Pederson on his first year, and what you see is a guy who was greatly over matched after the all star break. The more Toles plays, the more we will know. What we do know is that the pitchers figured out his weakness pretty fast.

        2. Bum

          Why are you mad because I am just saying the truth.

          This isn’t a knock on Joc and Grandal, this is the truth.

          A line up can’t be made up with to many players that don’t contribute a lot to make an offense more productive.

          And it is a fact that Grandal and Joc strike out more then others in the line up, considering there number of at bats, and where they usually hit in the line up.

          And someone here, pointed out, that Bellinger, has not hit as high as Joc did in AAA.

          And Joc had a good batting average in AAA, and Joc hasn’t hit 250, or above yet, in the majors, although he came close this year.

          How do you think Bellinger is going to hit in his first major league season, let alone this next season, like you want.

          1. MJ, I rarely get mad. I am a laid back fan. I am not mad at what you said but I am surprised at your stubbornness. You refuse to recognize OPS but are willing to use Average to base your takes.

            Joc and Grandal led the team in Home runs and RBI per at bat with the latter stat more difficult to achieve based on where they hit in the batting order and yet you say the bottom of the order where they hit is weak.

            Agon is a safer bet than Bellinger. I just would rather watch Bellinger play. Just because he plays first doesn’t mean he will bat cleanup like Agon did. He would be replacing Agon defensively only. Someone would replace Agon offensively in the cleanup spot. That person might be Joc, Turner, Braun, or someone else. Bellinger replaces Joc in the 8th spot. Three years later Bellinger might move up to cleanup. That’s how teams evolve and not stagnate.

          2. Michael

            This is what Nomar said, on a pregame show.

            I guess Bum has other inside info, that is better, then Nomar.

    2. My favorite line-up:

      1. Altuve, 2B
      2. Seager, SS
      3. Arenado, 3B
      4. Trout, RF
      5. K. Bryant, 1B
      6. M. Betts, CF
      7. Grandal, C
      8. Yelich, LF
      9. Kershaw, C

      Since reality may not be applicable here.

    1. Bum

      This is not just based on batting average.

      I sure hope that Joc and Grandal have the most HR and RBIs per at bat, because they are the only ones that constantly swinging from there heels, on almost every pitch they get.

      I know what I see, and there are times, when these two hitters, are like a dark hole at the end of our line up.

      And if these two were hitting, second, third, or fourth, in the line up, they wouldn’t be hitting the same, because pitchers, pitch hitters, much tougher, when they are hitting, second, third, and fourth in the line up.

      And those two players also have more strike outs, per at bat, then others in the line up too.

      And strike outs, are unproductive outs, and they are hitting at the back of the line up too.

      1. And Bum Toles had the highest OPS in the post season, on this team, but I know he isn’t the best hitter on this team, he is still learning.

  41. Right now across the baseball blogospheria/blogohsteria people are presenting scenarios on how they can trade their Puigs and Calhouns for Seager and Urias. For years they gabbed of ways to get Kershaw. None of what we want will be done. What will be done? More of the same. Depending on what happens with our FA’s I see more scouring of disabled lists and purchasing margin bargains. What you’ve seen is what you’re going to get. These guys are Tampa/Oakland trained. They know what they know. They were hired to implement what they know.

    This organization is in transition and transition can be uncomfortable. I’ve been uncomfortable since the ’15 deadline hairball. I don’t see ’17 unfolding any differently than the last two years did.

    1. Badger, why have a blog if we take a fatalist attitude? Basically we all could just say nothing fun will happen and therefore no need to fantasize. That is boring. You are not a boring guy so why not have fun with this?

      Seager made the top 3 MLB prospect list and I think he was rated #1 at one time. What was the highest ranking for Trea Turner?

    2. Sad but pretty much true. I don’t expect any great acquisitions that will improve our lot or make us happy. They will sweep out some of the riffraff and sweep in some new but very similar. Expect the same scenario we saw with Zack to be reenacted with Jensen and Turner. They will make a half-assed effort to sign them but someone else will offer more money….. To some Dodger fans, this was a losing year because we didn’t go to the World Series; to others, it was good because we won the division and got into the playoffs; to the owners, they over-achieved. A hard fought Wild Card win would have served their purposes just as well… There may be some trades but don’t expect them to spend any more money.

      1. Wondering

        I think the only ones that over achieved was Roberts, his coaches, the players, and the bullpen.

        And they did this, with no real starting rotation, much of the year.

        I know some here, didn’t want the Dodgers to go to far this year.

        Because they thought that the front office would have thought that it was ok to make a starting pitching rotation the way they did.

        And they were afraid that the front office, would get away with how badly they made this rotation, if the Dodgers did well.

        But it is obvious that a team needs a stable pitching rotation, to be successful.

        Because if a team doesn’t have a stable starting pitching rotation, that have pitchers that pitch deeper into games, the bullpen’s over use, will eventually will cause the bullpen to falter.

        Bottom line, a team needs balance, which is they need both a solid pitching rotation, and a solid bullpen.

        The way are starting pitching rotation was built, is no recipe for success.

        And now we all just want McCarthy and Kazmir, to just go away, but that is why these two, should have never been given these multi year contracts in the first place.

  42. Bum, I was clear with what I would like to have seen happen. Signing guys like McCarthy, Kazmir, Anderson, trading for stiffs like Latos, throwing guys like Norris and Beachy and Baker and Weiland and so blah and so forth – ef that. Stack up the system and invest in the future is what I said. Nope. We trade 3 top prospects for rentals that didn’t do squadush. I don’t know what to make of ’17 but I see a continued trend of less wins as those around us will indeed be better. If we sign Jansen and Turner, and pick up a bat similar to that of Braun, if we actually find a #2, I’ll revisit the scenario. For now I look at this Dodger team and I don’t know wtf to expect. I know my projections don’t match anything FAZ might be thinking. What I know for sure is they didn’t win more than 92 and they again, for the 10th straight time, made the playoffs and did not win the pennant. Is that a record? Sure feels like one.

    I think I’m done with baseball for a while. Time to put this headache in the rear view.

    1. Badger

      All of the moves you suggested, is exactly what we need going into the 2017 season, if we want the team to be better, and to win too.

        1. Now your catching on! I told you, millennial whippersnappers have no experience.

          Put your trust in “Simple as 123”.

          123 says it’s 50/50 tonight based solely on the latest and greatest sabermetrics. 1927 Yankees comparison to Cubs was input into the computer in determining today’s odds. Computer says no correlation.

          You can take it to the bank!

          1. Why worry about Millennials, they are not going to live as long as Baby Boomers, and probably Generation X’s!

            They are to sendentary, because of technology, and eat way to much!

        2. Badger

          The money should probably be on the Cubs in this game, because they are facing the Indians weakest starting pitcher, but who knows, maybe fate wants this to end today.

    2. I am making my last splash myself Badger getting it out of my system and then hopefully be quiet for awhile again until FAZ does something exciting and that doesn’t mean tinkering with the 40.

  43. Bumsrap: “I would also consider trading Puig and Calhoun for Trea”.

    Yeah, you would, but, Washington DEFINITELY would not.

    I haven’t seen it in awhile, but, somebody writes about the Best/Most Valuable players in baseball, considering, their performance and CONTRACT. I bet Seager is # 1, but Trea Turner could be # 2. Turner makes $500K/yr and isn’t even ARB elgible until 2019. FAZ would have much better chance of getting Harper from Washington than Turner. Washington would want Seager for Turner.

    You needed to be on the Trea Turner train a year ago, before he became Trea Turner. But, the number 13 overall pick in the draft was probably highly thought of, even then.

    1. And yet, Trea has not proven himself and therefore is still a question mark. How much can a team get for potential? Puig has just as much potential if not more.

      1. Gotta disagree!

        Trea Turner

        350 AB, .329 BA, .361 OBP, .900 OPS, 35 SB, 14 HRS

        Corey Seager

        725 AB, .312 BA, .374 OBP, .892 OPS, 5 SB, 30 HRS

        You get either player for $500K/yr. I have to believe, Washington is just as in love with Turner as we are with Seager. Puig has potential and an almost $10M/yr salary

      2. Bum

        Your a really big Joc fan, does it bother you, when Puig catches a ball right in front of Joc?

        Those kind of antics is what turns me off to Puig, because he knows better.

  44. Well Dee Gordon fans, as per MLB Rumors the Marlins are in search of starting pitching and Gordon may be available for the right price whatever that may be.

    1. His contract is too rich for FAZ, over and above any other feelings about him… But maybe if they could trade McCarthy or Kazmir for him….

      1. I’m not saying I would want him back. DR doesn’t play small ball with hit and run and SB’s and if we offered McCarthy and Kazmir, they might also want Calhoun too along with us paying at LEAST 75% of their total salaries. It was just FYI.

  45. MJ, a while back I posted to you that you should get a computer for your posting because it must be so much more difficult on a phone. I got on EBAY looking at MAC laptops because you indicated that was probably the direction you would go in. I saw some potential bargains, and sucker that I am, I put in low ball bids on a few. Darned if I didn’t win one!. It is less than $90 with shipping and I am looking forward to learning how to use it. I already have a desktop and 3 laptops, all PCs (Windows). Never used a MAC before so this will be an interesting experience for me. I didn’t get into computers until I was 59 years old and I have thoroughly enjoyed the experience learning about them. I even bought a Linux conversion kit awhile back, thinking about converting my oldest laptop, a Dell in Windows XP. (The other three were all converted to Windows 10 when it came out). It’s better than television, I sit here reading ebooks on my computer, listening to my choice of music from its speakers. I do my banking and shopping online. It is my window on the world.

    1. Wondering

      So that was on a site that you bid just for computers, and how do you know if they will work?

      They must work, or you woundn’t have put the bid in, so maybe that was a dump question.

      I don’t know how to even put one togther, but I guess I should try.

      It would have to be a Mac like you got, because they are suppose to be more explanatory.

      1. That was EBAY. You pay with PAYPAL and they guarantee your merchandise is as listed and delivered to you. In addition you can get extended warranty service through EBAY. Everybody who buys or sells there has a feedback record of their transactions. It is a good record or they are banned. Most of these people are companies with thousands of successful transactions behind them. I have bought and sold 964 items (I’m shocked at the number) over the 16 years I have been on the computer. I have gotten a few items that didn’t work or never arrived but I have never failed to get my money refunded in those cases. MAC computers are more expensive than PCs (Windows), I was shocked to get that one so cheap. I know nothing about using the MAC, never used anything but PC. I don’t really see how MAC could be any easier to use. I’m not trying to talk you into anything you aren’t comfortable with. I’m pretty sure there are computer stores near you, I don’t mean the big name merchants but smaller stores that sell new and used computers and repair them. Go there and ask questions and see what they have. Baseball season’s over, you got to pass the time some other way…

  46. Got to agree with MJ on this one.
    Personally I find Joc the most infuriating of our batters.
    I think we watch the game in the same way, MJ and I. We are not concerned too much about the various stats or percentages, we are interested in what is happening in front of our eyes at any particular moment. The decision making in the heat of battle. The subtle change of approach. Reading the game, being ahead of it ,not behind and reacting to it. Having professional At Bats. Passing the eye test.
    Joc’s figures may tell a different story, but I know what I see, and feel. Not once in the playoffs, when Joc came up to Bat did I have any confidence in him. He is always on a 0-2 count, with the pitcher in control.
    MJ has banged the drum for him to throttle down and hit the gaps, but no, there he is swinging from his heels again.
    I know there are others (Grandal), but I honestly would rather move Joc and get someone else in there.

    I know this won’t be popular on here, but ultimately if we want to
    actually win a WS then we will need more than he gives us. He is not a patch on what Matt Kemp gave us, and is not going to fulfil him early potential, much like Puig.

    1. Much of what we see is predetermined in that we always look for things that support our purchases, beliefs, opinions. That is why stats should be used to see if we have biases. MJ probably likes the short compact swings that Utley takes but he is less clutch than Joc. Don’t believe it? Look at their stats.

    2. MJ and you better get used to 24 yr old Joc and his $500K/yr salary. Happily, he does have a sweet “go to left field” swing at times. Another year of pepper and the sky is the limit. His 3.4 WAR this year on that salary wasn’t too shabby either. Oh before I forget, you know who his BFF and roommate is?

    3. Watford

      I think Joc is very capable of hitting better, and I see enough improvement, as well, as he plays good defense, that I don’t want to trade him.

      I just want him to do better.

      I just don’t think Joc would do well right now, in the meat of the line up.

    4. Watford

      I think I am more hard on Joc, because I see him making these adjustments, and he goes back to the old way at times.

      I am not as hard on Grandal because Grandal is a catcher, and he has to work harder, and I don’t think Grandal hasn’t figured it out like Joc.

      But I am watching the World Series, and Baez is swinging just like Joc does at times, at balls in the dirt, or over his head.

      So it has to be hard for young players at times.

      It bothers me more, with two strikes, and runners on base.

  47. We just got done with a great Southwest lunch and now I am back at the hotel in PHX. Just a few rambling observations:

    1. Colts suck. Chuck Chuck and Fire Ryan! Pitiful!

    2. Michael Norris, I get that you don’t Grandal because he used illegal testosterone and was suspended for 50 games. OK. But how about Dee Gordon? He was found to be guilty of use of exogenous testosterone and clostebol which is an 80 game suspension. He was found dirty in spring training and in my opinion it is likely he used it long before that and Michael, that combination does not bulk you up. It helps you recover quicker. Grandal did it to get to the major leagues quicker. Dee Gordon used it to swindle the Marlins out of a $50 million dollar deal. If any of you don’t like Kendrick – look at his and Gordon’s stats. Gordon is worse! I’m fine if you don’t like Grandal, but it’s a double standard when you like Gordon. I never want him back!

    3. We have no clue what is about to happen with FAZ and ignorance is bliss… at least in my case it is.

    1. People need to stop giving Luck a pass on everything too. His play at the end of the 2nd Quarter was pitiful. He’s been a turnover machine. As for Grigson, the fact that Joe Reitz is still on the roster after 5 years in Indy should be enough for termination.

    2. I would not want Gordon back in Dodger blue. I pretty much do not want anyone like that on the team. Nor do I want guys who abuse their wives and family. Gordon was an exciting player, when he was on the team he played hard. They found his usage after he left the team, but that is no excuse. I just dislike abusers and cheaters. The stuff Bonds was using did bulk him up. His physical change was totally visible. Dee obviously did not use the same stuff…

      1. Michael

        The stuff they said Dee used, was some kind of old steroid, that countries in the eastern block use to use.

        And almost everyone that was caught this year, tested positive for this very old eastern block steroid.

        Like I said about Grandal, I think the connection is Florida.

        Dee and Grandal are from Florida, and Grandal went to college, at a school that has had a few players, test positive.

        I think Grandal went to same college that Braun did, but Grandal went there much later.

        And of course you know that big bust baseball had, with that clinic in Florida.

        And many of those players who’s names came up at that clinic, never even tested positive.

  48. Gordon passed over 20 drug tests. He tested positive for colestebol, which is on the meh end of anabolic steroids. It’s possible he absorbed trace amounts by having sexual intercourse or ingesting meat contaminated with the material. Cattle farmed for harvest are injected with many different growth hormones, and some vaginitis meds have the steroid in them. Sex, and contaminated farm animals. I won’t go any further with that thought, but I know some here will.

    http://clinchem.aaccjnls.org/content/50/2/456

    1. Badger

      Every guy that tested positive this last season, tested positive for this same stuff.

      And Gordon admitted he made a mistake.

      And if it is something to make a player recover better, Gordon would be a player, that would benefit from using this stuff.

      Because he got wore out, because of him being so thin, in a major league season.

      He bulked up and gained thirty pounds last year, is what I read.

      1. Take a look at Gordon’s Babip in 2015.

        I know things like that can happen, but Gordon admitted to taking this stuff.

        And he didn’t go out right away once he tested positive, and he cost us a game, because of his timing.

  49. One year of testing positive can mean tens of millions in a new contract. I think damn near EVERYBODY would agree it’s worth it. Even MLB does as the punishment is 80 games. A few extra months off and you’re back to work with $40 million in the bank. Give me some of that punishment.

    The fans want more offense. MLB knows full well that the “black eye” they suffered in the Sosa, McGwire then Bonds years was well worth it as fans flocked back to baseball after the strike. The only anger I feel about this is baseball turned a blind eye to Barry Bonds when everyone knew damn well what he was doing. If Shawn Green would have done steroids he might have hit 80 home runs as he was more a natural home run hitter than Bonds was. If Green had done that, and by so doing carried the Dodgers to a World Series it would have been easier for me to accept steroid use. Hey, MLB obviously doesn’t care – why should I?

  50. Badger: “It’s possible he absorbed trace amounts by having sexual intercourse or ingesting meat contaminated with the material”.

    Yes, and I guess it’s possible Crooked Hillary never emailed classified information or broke any other laws. NOT!

    Badger: “One year of testing positive can mean tens of millions in a new contract. I think damn near EVERYBODY would agree it’s worth it. Even MLB does as the punishment is 80 games. A few extra months off and you’re back to work with $40 million in the bank. Give me some of that punishment”.

    Spoken like Crooked Hillary: ” ‘What difference, at this point, does it make?’ Right?

    1. Translation: Every man has his price. And I agree. If taking steroids would get me $40MM I’ll plead guilty. What the hell, I am guilty; I get a cortisone shot in my knee every three months…. Our world consists of muddied waters. The black/white, right/wrong of the Garden of Eden doesn’t exist anymore, billions of men over eons have cut corners on morality to where it’s pointless to even discuss it. Which all goes to say that Badger is right; Most fans don’t care, most players don’t care (There’s a trickle up effect for even the non-users), the owners don’t care (Fans spend more money to see the big users, err, I mean stars), and it won’t get any better. Calvinism is dead. Sorry for sticking my nose in, you and everyone else has his right to an opinion, I just hate to see someone fighting a battle he can’t win…

      1. No problem!

        You are correct “right/wrong” have been with us since Garden of Eden. Disagree, “that it is pointless to even discuss it”. I believe, we are “hard-wired” to want to do good. When we make bad right/wrong decisions, it hurts on a individual basis. NEVER hurts to thrive to do right! The battle isn’t perfection, which we can’t win, but to do better!

        1. Hillary? To bring politics to the table in this way weakens any credibility with 67% of your audience. Sorry man, but whatever you said after “Crooked” went right in the crapper.

          The point being made was that it’s absolutely possible many fringe players, guys like say for instance Dee Gordon, just might feel a little bit of help for this season could translate to millions in the future. And how is not possible to look at this individual scenario, in and of itself, and say “damn, it worked”. Here’s a guy that allegedly passed 22 tests before this one. Pretty easy to look at this, say oops, and move on.

          Obviously I have no proof my premise is true. All we know for sure is Dee Gordon won a batting title, signed a $50 million dollar deal then tested positive for a low level, yet banned, substance. Looks like a Dee win to me.

          1. Badger

            It is only a win for people who put more of a value on money then respect.
            Who knows what is going to happen with Gordon, because the Marlins owner, sounds kind of erratic to me.

          2. Badger

            When I saw that they were going to give Gordon a multi year contract after only one year, I thought that was a bad idea.

            So I guess this is the Marlin’s owners fault, as much as Gordon.

            He was the one that choose to give Dee that multi year contract, after only one year.

        2. Agreed. But I realize I can only manage my own morality, I don’t even try with other people. I might regret what they do but I don’t have the wherewithal to worry about it any more. Let God sort it out… (By the way, I refer to God a lot but it’s just my way of evading responsibility; I haven’t been in a church in more than 60 years)

          1. Wondering

            I am not usually a judge mental person either, because I am not perfect.

            As you probably saw I didn’t judge what Fernandez did.

            He was a young guy, and if we had to give our life, for mistakes we made when we were young, non of us would be here, right now.

            But Gordon’s father played Major League Baseball, and Gordon had a lot of former players, he could talk to, if he didn’t want to talk to his father.

            And Gordon got on my nerves, when he first came back and played against the Dodgers, in the first season, he was with the Marlins.

            He had only played for them for a short time, but he was acting like he was the big star of the team, like Stanton is.

          2. Yes, we can only “manage our own morality”. It can be frustrating to try with other people, I know, I have kids. I do try with them, right/wrong, I guess I learned from my parents that it is part of the “parent” job description.

            Interesting comment on the Church. I believe God/Jesus viewed his Church as “What’s inside a Person”.

        3. I think the ‘doing right’ in us is a learning thing as toddlers are selfish and children are cruel at early stages of life. And nobody gets all the Freddie Kruger out of themselves ever. Whole nations go insane and we’re all potential lunatics. We have to be able to see the ugliness inside ourselves to choose to avoid the ugliness. I’ve got a lot of that to look at.

          1. Good philosophical discussion, as we wait for the Hot Stove to heat up.

            Maybe the “doing wrong” in us is a learning thing. Infants have little selfishness or cruelty, newborns even less. The world does quickly teach us ALL, selfishness and cruelty.

      2. Everyone just because a lot of people might do that, it still doesn’t make it right!

        Personally I have to much of a conscience to do something like that.

        I would probably do badly, just feeling quilty about what I was doing.

        And steroids are not good for your health.

        1. Make it right? So cashing in on something that is not illegal is somehow a moral issue?

          How unAmerican of you! Everyone knows we are a capitalist driven nation. Even our religious institutions accept and live by those principles. And respect? Professional athletes?

          Look, until MLB takes a hard stance on this it will continue. I don’t care anymore. I did at first, and I told you why. Now? I forgive and release any and all judgment on those that may value $50 million over what fans in Bygosh Californdiana might think about them.

          Aren’t I evolved?

          1. Badger

            I am not from Indiana, my family is.

            I was born in New Mexico, and brought out to California, when I was a month old.

            Did you see that the World Series, it had more viewers, then the football game last night?

      3. Wondering

        The cortisone shots you get are not the same type of steroids.

        You are only doing that, to get relief from inflammation.

        They are also used for auto immune disorders too.

        I was on predisone for a few years, and it has a lot of side effects, when taken a long time.

        The other type of steroids also have a lot of bad side affects too.

        Obviously baseball is getting tougher on steroids, because a lot of the players, don’t want them in the game.

        That is why the players union, isn’t trying to defend these players who test positive that much.

        This is why the tests are getting better, and harder to beat.

        Gordon could have been taking this stuff longer then some think.

        Arod wasn’t suspended because he tested positive, he was on the list of that clinic in Florida that someone turned in, for being dirty.

        Look at all of the all time records, that steroids allowed players, to beat, like Hank Aaron’s HR record.

      1. Jeez guys! Here we are having a conversation on the “politics” of steroid useage. Some here feeling it’s OK to cheat, as long as there is a PAYOFF. Couldn’t help but, relate it to Crooked Hillary and today’s Wikileak, on how she and Donna Brazille cheated Bernie Sanders. I guess you guys also think it was OK to give the cheating hag the debate questions before she debated Bernie.

        As a guy who was feeling the “Bern”, I DON”T!!

        I agree with MJ, “Just because a lot of people might do that, it still doesn’t make it right!”

          1. Yes, I see what you did there! The always hurtful BADger.

            I am going to take the high road, HAPPY HALLOWEINER to you!

          2. There you go again!!

            I wouldn’t wish the old “ayahuasca in the beer” trick on my worst enemy.

            Karma is like a camera. Once you click, you get the output.

  51. Heyman: A few teams are showing interest in Carlos Ruiz. The Dodgers could be ready to give the backup job to Austin Barnes, but they could still pick up Ruiz’s $4.25 million option, and think about trading him. Ruiz is popular as he’s great in the clubhouse, a good game caller and can still swing the bat.

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