The Dodgers caused quite a stir on social media last night after their pathetic 4-3 loss to the Padres on Friday evening. Let me set the stage with you before we get into the details. The Dodgers returned home from a long road trip. They opened a weekend series with the fourth place San Diego Padres. Rich Hill and Clayton Richard battled, and the Dodgers lost by a run despite a very gusty performance from Rich Hill.
Now of course this is going to happen at least once or twice before the season ends. As Oscar noted, the Dodgers are going to drop a few games between now and before the end of the regular season. They’re playing with house money, which means they have a huge lead in the NL West. They have the luxury of experimenting, giving guys extended looks, and generally taking it easy over the last few weeks of the regular season. That’s fine, but it doesn’t mean we have to like it when they lose.
Nor when they lose in the fashion they did last night. The club just seemed out of sync. Maybe it was the effects of a long and tiring road trip? Perhaps. Or could it be the club was distracted, happy to be home and getting used to snuggling up in their own beds for the first time in a couple of weeks instead of living out of a suitcase? That’s certainly a possibility.
Whatever the case, the boys in blue did not resemble the historically great club that has the best record in baseball and has been setting records over the last two plus months. The bats were somewhat cold, going 4 for 14 with runners in scoring position, stranding ten runners, and loading the bases with nobody out but not scoring. The bullpen was off with Ross Stripling allowing two solo home runs in two innings of work that turned a 3-2 Dodger lead into a 4-3 San Diego win. Again as Oscar stated, the Dodgers are going to lose a few no matter how much we want them to win every single game from here on out.
Once the game was over the drama on twitter began. There was more drama on twitter than there was in the game. The drama surrounded my favorite whipping boy Kike Hernandez. Keep in mind that Kike has been a little better this season than he was during his historically awful 2016 season. Kike has hit 10 home runs, (32 extra-base hits) 32 RBI, and a .961 OPS against left handers in 2017. That’s what Kike was originally brought in for, to hit left handed pitching. Although he’s hitting only .221 overall and .188 against right handers. Yet I’ve been impressed with his improved play this season on both sides of the ball.
Unfortunately Kike can get a little immature, especially on twitter. He does have a tendency to goof around at times. Sometimes he goes a little overboard. So in last night’s loss he was playing in left field and apparently took some time during the game to interact with a fan in the pavilions.
I wasn’t there to see exactly what the interaction was, but it seems as though Kike was just reaching out to a young fan. That seems totally acceptable to me. Not everyone thought that way though. And one such Dodger fan did not like the distraction.
Political analyst David Wohl who I think just got annoyed with losing to the Padres lashed out at Kike on twitter taking offense to him interacting with the young fan during the game. He tweeted this….
You act like a goofball, totally distracted and we lose to the awful Padres. Hopefully Dave Roberts has a problem with that too.
— David Wohl (@DavidWohl) August 12, 2017
So a Dodgers player is screwing around excessively during the game, we lose to a crappy team, and you're good with that? Really?
— David Wohl (@DavidWohl) August 12, 2017
Sorry kids, David (Political Analyst) wants me to focus on the game! We've been wrong the entire time, little fans with dreams don't matter! https://t.co/eHQfeUjcK5
— Enrique Hernández (@kikehndez) August 12, 2017
Would we even be having this conversation if my last name was Smith?
— Enrique Hernández (@kikehndez) August 12, 2017
You're an amazing team, the best I've ever seen, and I've been going to Dodger games since 1975. Just thought the goofing was a bit much.
— David Wohl (@DavidWohl) August 12, 2017
As you can see, Kike defended himself snapping back at him claiming racism. In which Wohl responded by saying that he just had a problem with the excessive goofing off. Of course this launched a monumental slew of Dodger fans and media members rushing to Kike’s defense.
Now let me preface this by saying that I can’t stand twitter or social media. I normally try and stay away from this sort of nonsense these days. Nowadays players are all over social media not only interacting with fans and media, but also fighting and slinging insults. If you tweet at a player be prepared to possibly be attacked if you say anything that they don’t like. The lines between players and fans are closer than ever on social media in the modern era.
I thought the whole thing was hilarious and I wanted to document it for everyone to see. Personally I don’t have a problem with Kike throwing gumballs, or having interactions with a fan during the game. I have more of a problem with Stripling giving up home runs to the Padres in consecutive innings.
However I do believe that Kike’s antics (Banana shtik, gumball bat, yoga pants etc. etc.) at times can go a bit too far. That has nothing to do with Wohl’s political views, or the outcome of the game. Kike has a very extroverted personality. That’s fine, but there are times when it’s needed and times when it is not. One additional note, Kike has blocked the LADR account. I guess I picked on him a bit too much over here.
In case you were wondering Hernandez was 0 for 3 with a walk in the Dodger’s loss to the Padres on Friday.
88 thoughts on “Enrique Hernandez Interacts With Young Fan During Game, Causes Stir, Hilarity on Twitter”
I know Kike is not one of our best players, so when I defend him a bit, it’s not because I think he can do no wrong. I can’t see how you or any other fan figures he has the right to judge how a player acts when he is not between the foul lines. He has coaches, managers and owners who have a more vested interest in it. If they don’t see a problem, you sure can’t. Nor can that political creep, David Wohl. Don’t take yourself so damn serious. Anyone with an active brain would have to get bored during a game, I can’t stand to watch them anymore. Fifteen minutes of action and three hours of waiting. My vote’s with Kike this time…
Kike is great and who knows why this guy had an issue.
I doubt it will resurface and hopefully will be forgotten
I have no problem with Kike interacting with a fan during a game. And I seriously doubt that it affected any of his at bats. He is not the only player to do so. How about the kid down the 1st base line and the look on his face when Myers caught that pop up right out of his glove? Myers just stood there smiling at the kid. A few weeks ago, when the Braves were in town, Phillips was talking to his son while he was in the on deck circle, and then went up and hit a triple. Have seen tons of players talk to and interact with fans since I Have been watching the game and not once have I thought the players performance suffered from it. Kike’s problem not hitting can be traced to his all or nothing swing even with 2 outs, not talking to a kid. His .220 something average relates to mechanics not antics. Kudos to Army vet Chris Rowley on his debut performance with the Jays and getting the win. Rockies signed Ryan Howard to a minor league deal…..yeah, that Ryan Howard.
Stripling hung 2. It happens….he was out there to eat innings, and has been pretty good at that. I dislike relievers giving up HR’s, but it happens.
I figured last night got their attention on Forsythe. He’s riding the bench tonight, and that’s going to be more often from now on… I see that Kinsler was traded and his salary is bigger than Forsythe. FAZ missed a chance to dump him.
Kinsler makes more money.
I figured everyone would like the line up tonight, since Forsythe isn’t in the line up.
I know I like this line up better.
I think Chase actually deserves more playing time, then Forsythe really.
He would be a much better option, against righties.
Roberts is having Chase hit seventh, and that is where I think Forsythe should hit against righties.
I think the team will play very well tonight!
I don’t think they liked losing like they did last night.
And really since they have had this big lead, non of the players have took a game off.
They are still playing with the same intensity they played with, before they had this big lead!
Oops, that was the Met’s second baseman, Walker who was traded, not Kinsler.
I think Walker also makes more money.
The only team that might want Forsythe, is the Rays.
At this point with such a big lead on the league for home field, I’m looking for how these relievers bounce back.
Twitter. Boon or hindrance.
This ump sucks.
Pretty lackluster performance considering this is the Padres.
Agreed. His strike zone is all over the place. On a little side note, sound has been out on Orel and Joe for the last 4 innings.
Great at bat by Puig!
Great at bat by Puig! And here comes Taylor with bases loaded again …and strikes out. He got set up by offspeed pitches. The book is being written on Taylor. Now let’s see if Seager can do something.
Judging from the way Chase crushed that double, against a lefty, he should be in there more than Forsythe.
Cody and Corey are clutch. Horrible injury to Bryce Harper….it did not look good.
That was terrible what happened to Harper.
He not only tore the ligament that Toles tore, he tore the other big ligament in his knee, that attaches to his thigh.
Thank God he got that one year extension from the Nats, because this was suppose to be his free agency year.
I don’t know exactly how badly Machado blew out his knee, but he blew out his other knee, in the next year he played, and he has been playing well, for the last couple years, but he doesn’t play in the outfield.
What Harper did looked terrible!
He has had some bad breaks, with injuries, because he plays with his hair on fire.
That is what makes Harper different then Trout.
You never see Trout let his emotions get in the way when he plays, like Harper does.
That is how Corey is like Trout.
But this injury was just an accident, from the damp base.
BellInger, Corey and Turner and hitting well these days. Grandal, Joc and Forsythe are just not consistent enough.
Turner has cooled off some since they got home, but knowing Justin he will turn it around soon. Bellinger now only 1 dinger behind Piazza.
Yes, he’s not getting hits, but he’s also making contact and getting the sacrifice flies. A lot of guys when they’ve had an 0-fer the previous night (or that very game) would not do that. They try to hunt for the hit and end up playing into the pitcher’s hands. Like Puig on his last at bat (but he did have a great at bat in the pivotal sixth inning and a nice play scoring on Seager’s run down!). I know you know all this – I’m just pointing out what I like.
Writing is on the wall for Joc. With A-Gone set to come off the DL probably on the next road trip in Detroit, I think Joc may get sent out. I hate to see it happen to the kid, but his confidence is shot, and the quickness is not there in his at bats. He left 7 men on including the bases loaded twice. Granted it was with 2 outs, but that is just not acceptable in the majors. Taylor or Bellinger will slide into center.
Dodgers never do anything EASY. Thanks Kenley, I was about to get greyer. They pick up a game on the Rocks and stay where they are against the D Backs.
Joc and Forshyte out of the lineup will be a very good thing, both have become pretty much automatic outs in clutch at bats. I occasionally hear that they are great at getting walks, well that is because they both take way to many pitches in general, that’s why both of them also take a lot of called third strikes (well at least Forshyte does). Both are big time rally killers, their absence from the line-up will be a boost to the consistency of this club. In the regular season, they can get by with these two’s lousy at bats, but in the playoffs lousy at bats hurt you against the best teams and the best pitchers. Demote these two from their current roles now and get this this really cranked up and settled weeks ahead of the playoffs beginning (time to tinker with the best line-ups now).
Joc to OKC, Forshyte to a back-up role and no more, he really shouldn’t be considered for a bat off the bench, just a defensive move at best.
What is bad with what Joc and Forsythe are doing, is that they are going out of their way, to get walks, to keep their OBA up, since they are not hitting.
And by over working their counts, they also get behind on pitchers, and not to many hitters, hit well down with two strikes, and Joc especially doesn’t hit well, when he is down with two strikes..
And sometimes the best pitches a hitter will get, is the first two pitches they get, because pitchers, don’t like to get down on their counts, so they mostly try to throw at least a first pitch strike, unless a hitter, is known for going after the first pitch.
Joc’s OBA for August is just a little over 200, and he has only had one hit all month.
Joc was doing pretty well when he first came off the DL, and Forsythe’s OBP over the last 10 games was above .500. But neither has been able to sustain any kind of momentum and they are just giving away at bats. I thought maybe Joc had come around when he got that clutch double the other night, but he went right back and had a couple of bad games. With Turner slumping a little, they do not need at bats given away.
Harper’s Injury. He has my sympathy.
I don’t think that’s going to keep him out too long, maybe 10 days to two weeks.
Why do the Major Leagues have bases that are slippery when wet? They use the same base that are found on softball fields everywhere. Those bases are used by rec departments that are grossly underfunded and cannot afford a high tech surface. I’ve slipped on them many times. This should not happen at the Major League level. I sure hope he’s there for the playoffs.
Recently? You’re right, technology has come a long way in the last 150 years and better designed bases sure are possible. But some old fossil traditionalist would complain about any change in the game. That’s why the NL still doesn’t have the DH…
Someone told me last night he tore both his ACL and another ligament, maybe they were wrong, but that tape of that, makes it look bad.
But remember Toles was also able to walk off the field.
But I think the ligament that Toles tore, was the ligament that stabilizes the knee.
There are 4 ligaments that stabilize the knee. You lose any of them you aren’t running for a while.
In the mid 60’s we put a non skid surface on our diving board. They have it on boats, pool decks, stairs and tubs. I’ll bet they have it in the showers of the Dodgers locker room. Spray some Traction Kote 400 on the bases on wet days. A slippery wet base at that level is inexcusable.
Both the Anterior and Posterior Cruciate ligaments. The ligament on the posterior inside of the knee is the Media Collateral, the outside one is the Lateral Collateral. The question is whether they are strained or ruptured. If ruptured or torn to any degree, he’s done for the year.
All he has is a bad bone bruise. It is on the MLB site this morning. He was put on the 10 day DL.
That shows me that Toles is one tough guy.
Because he was able to get up by himself, and walk to the dugout.
I heard about the bad bone bruise later today, and that still hurts.
I bruised the inside of my knee cap, and I couldn’t walk or use my clutch, to drive my car.
Because of course it was bruised on my good knee.
Latest reports are saying Bryce Harper has a bad bone bruise, but luckily no ligament damage. He’s going on the 10 day DL for now.
Bone bruise is great news. It sure looked like more than that.
You don’t walk at all with a torn ligament. He walked off, with help. My guess is he has strained ligaments.
Toles walked out by himself, with a torn ACL.
David Wohl is a not a political analyst. He’s just some lawyer who is useful as cliche spewing pro-Trump apologist on all the political talking head shows. He’s incapable of saying anything insightful.
Anybody think that Utley’s ejection in the 9th was just weird? Or maybe that ump thinks he is above the game and throws a guy out for just asking him to move? That whole thing was just wrong, and the ump was out of line. A player can ask an ump to move. That’s all Utley did and he was not impolite to the ump. That was worse than some basketball ref calling a ticky tack foul.
I don’t know if this is the same ump, but I had just heard or saw, that another player had this same problem with an ump, not to long ago.
I got a technical foul one time, for a dirty look, and I didn’t even say one word!
Bluto called several fouls on you.
If I were FAZ today… No, I don’t want to be FAZ. If I were the GM today, I’d call up Verdugo and Ramos, send Joc and Farmer down, switch Taylor to second base, bench Forsythe and put him and at least three of the pitchers on waivers, Verdugo and Ramos play left and center. When Agon comes back, Bellinger goes into the outfield mix; you hit, you play; you don’t you sit.
Great, now Mr GM, who do you drop to clear roster space for Verdugo and Ramos? And basically you are adding 3 left handed bats to a team that is lefty heavy. I know Ramos is a switch hitter so that alleviates some of the problem. But neither Ramos or Verdugo is on the 40 man, and the other thing is now for the last 48 games or so, you have two untested rookies playing every day. Not going to happen no matter how much you might want it. Joc may get sent down when Adrian comes off the DL, but Verdugo and Ramos, no way.
DFAing Hatcher and McCarthy opens two 40 man spots. And EIGHT good left handed hitters beats 4 left and 4 right if several of them are bad hitters. Bellinger for one seems to hold his own against lefties. So does Corey. Maybe Ramos and Verdugo will too. Don’t sweat it too much, I’m not the GM; Just speculating to exercise my typing fingers….Both of them…
MCCarthy still has some value, believe it or not.
Any team can always use a pitcher, especially this late in the season, if their is an injury, on the team.
The Yankees just put their Japanese starter on the DL, and I believe they also put another pitcher, on the DL too.
And McCarthy pitched in NY for half of the season in 2014, I believe.
But since Joc is a leftie, and Ramos is a switch hitter, you would only be adding, one left hand hitter, but we do need to hold on to any good right hand hitters, that we have.
And Farmer has been pretty good off the bench, since he has been here.
We have enough starters, if you’re not too particular. We could save McCarthy’s salary from next year, $10 MM, and a couple of $MM from this year. Works for me.
Everyone doesn’t want Agone and Grandal, clogging up the bases, so I would hit Chase behind Cody, and have Agone and Grandal, hitting sixth and seventh.
I would hit our pitcher eighth, and hit Puig ninth, so he doesn’t have Agone and Grandal, hitting, and running in front of him, to slow him down, and Puig would be a second lead off hitter, in our line up.
So this would be my line up, against righties.
Good though MJ. Hitting the pitcher 8th could be a great move for Joc until AGon gets back.
Keep hitting Joc 7th and have the pitcher hit 8th. Puig also gets sole protection with Taylor behind him. Or hit Puig 7th and Joc 9th.
I’d like to see what Verdugo could do. As far as making room I just don’t see it as a big problem. There are ways to get it done without compromising the team. Would anyone miss Hatcher, Kazmir, Liberatore or McCarthy? We don’t need any of those guys. Don’t need Segedin either. Is Eibner still on the 40? Kazmir and McCarthy were risky signings that just haven’t worked out. Admit it, swallow the olive and designate them. Who’s going to claim them?
That said, we don’t really need Verdugo on the 40 man do we. We’ve done pretty well without him.
Stanton hit #42, I don’t think Cody can catch him, but what is the Dodger record?
Shawn Green – 49.
Think he can top that this season? If he continues at the same rate, he would end up with 53 or 54. Outstanding!!!
Not a chance. He still needs 6 to get to 40, and then he would need 10 more to break Greens record. He would have to really go nuts to catch him.
And Cody didn’t start on the team, on opening day either.
And he will beat Piazza’s rookie record, for sure.
Well they sent Farmer down and activated, you guessed it, Hatcher. Now they are playing with a 3 man bench again. I am in no way in favor of that. It limits Roberts maneuverability. Maeda gives up another dinger and an error opens the door for a 2 run first. Turner usually sure handed. Dodgers hitting balls to the warning track again….we need some to go out.
They need to stop trying to hit HRs, if that is what they are doing.
We need to get some people on base, and make this pitcher, work harder.
They just need get some hits for now, and get some people on base, and hit them in.
After watching Joc for the last few seasons and seeing how he has consistently collapses (and it ain’t too great in the first half either) in the second half of each season, I think if he took his dog into see a vet, the vet would give the dog medicine and offer to put Joc down. It’s time to make a move on the Joc experiment, it ain’t working and appears to only be getting worse with each at bat. Have mercy, put Joc out of his misery, at this point in his career he is a AAA player, no more, no less.
I hate the decision to bring Hatcher up, especially by shorting the bench of position players. Don’t trust Hatcher, Stripling, Avilan (can we get his wife to have another baby in the next few weeks?). these guys can’t be trusted at all to come into a game, no lead is safe with those guys and the gas cans they carry.
Actually True, Joc had a good second half last year. He raised his average 40 points in the second half and his HR’s were almost the same. His first year he was terrible the second half. Little more research before you post there my friend. Joc hit .260 after the break last year and had 12 HR’s as compared to 13 in the first half, and he had more RBI’s in almost 50 less at bats. In 2015 he hit .230 in the first half and .178 in the second. He hit 20 of his 26 HR’s in the first half. But he made marked improvement in the 2nd half last year. I know what you are saying and it might be time to do so, BUT, with about 6 weeks left in the season, I doubt they do that. Verdugo is not on the 40 man and neither is Ramos. They could move Taylor to center when A-Gone plays. We will see if A-Gone gets activated next week in Detroit.
The truth is Joc missed most of July last year, because he was out on the DL.
He had good stats in eight games in July.
And Joc didn’t hit well in August at all last year!
Joc hit well for only a month, in the second half of the season last year!
Because he hit well in September and October combined, and Joc had less at bats, in these two months combined, then he had in August!
So the truth is that Joc hit well for a month, and 8 games, in the whole second half of the season last year.
A hitter, should be able to hit well, for more then just one month, and 8 games, in either halfs of the season.
And he didn’t do that well in the first half of the season, and that is why people who like Joc, only bring up that second half.
The truth is Joc only hit well, for one month of the season, and eight games, in the entire second half of the season last year.
And the reason his numbers looked so good for that month, was because he hit seven HRs.
He has never been able to hit even 250 in almost three years, in the majors.
Again you prove you have no damn idea what you are talking about. From the all star break to the end of the year in 2016 Joc had 177 at bats. He hit 12 home runs and drove in 35 in that period of time. His batting average from after the all star game to the end of the season was .260. Those are facts, right off the Dodger web site. It matters not that he was being platooned That is what he did. It is on the stat page and you sit here and argue different? He hit .238 in the first half with 13 home runs and 33 RBI’s. That’s straight from his stat page, so he hit .022 higher in the second half. I could give a rats ass whether he was being platooned or not. He improved in the second half. Those are the facts period. In the second half of 2015 he went way down, and that’s there too. Yet you sit here and refuse to give the kid any credit what so ever for improving over the 2nd half last year. You think it makes any damn difference that he was platooned with Kike? He did not let the reduced playing time impact his performance, he improved on it. If you do not believe me, just go read the stats for yourself. You blame Kike’s lack of playing time for his lack luster numbers. Joc finished 2016 with a .246 average which was 36 points higher than his rookie year. All your damn blubbering about playing time is so full of bull I cannot believe it. Last year Kike hit .189 before the all star game and .191 after, so who should have been playing? The .191 hitting slug, or the CF hitting .260. Your arguments are weak and do not hold water. This year Kike was hitting .216 before the break and .234 since. Yeah he has a lot of extra base hits. His OBP before the break was .308, since it is .333. Joc’s OBP before the break was .361. Neither one is doing a great job there kiddo. Joc is in a huge slump and should be benched, but he also deserves credit for what he was able to do in the second half last year. You refuse to recognize the improvement he made last year, even though it is right there in black and white. You know nothing about the game, you make absolutely no sense what so ever a lot of the time and you sit there and beat a dead horse about playing time, reliever HR’s , platooning. Why am I defending him against you? Simply because you are wrong. The stats you quoted were incomplete, and you have an obvious prejudice against Joc. We all wish he was playing better. We all want the team to win, me, I have not had a favorite play since Piazza left, I just happen to see things you do not or refuse to see. I played the game and know how hard it is to excel at it. There fore I am a lot more forgiving than most fans. It is not easy to come out of a slump, it is a lot harder when you are on a team with so many good players and your failures put the spotlight right on you. For his sanity, I would send him down to get his confidence back. Not sure they will do that and I am not even sure Joc will be in their plans next year. But as long as he is a Dodger, I am not going to sit here and beat him into the ground every time he has a bad day. Yes, before you say it, there are players on the team I do not like. Hill, Grandal, McCarthy, Kazmir. The pitchers I think were just plain bad pick ups, and their overall performance leaves a lot to be desired. Hill has turned his season around and I will give him credit for that. The other two are a waste of roster space. As for Grandal, I have exactly no respect for a guy who felt he had to cheat. I do not wish him ill, I just do not like him at all. That is my choice.
MJ, check the other blog…. Bumsrap just posted a slam at me that must have taken him an hour to research and type! And I haven’t said anything about him in months. The old coot’s gone crazy….
I saw that!
He even mentioned Sears and Roebuck!
But he didn’t mention Laverne and Shirley, one of my favorite shows, when I was younger.
I just think you were a little to convenient, to go after.
Now if Joc homers, we’ll know the apocalypse is upon us….
BTW, Vinny has to be kicking himself that he bailed one season too early. Great season but damn it would have been even better with Vinny up in that booth. I think we need to start a drive for Vinny to come back and do the post season, wouldn’t that be special? How can we start a grassroots movement started to get that going? Any ideas?
Yuck, I just went and checked out The Catcher’s blog (yes Brutus that is a homosexual reference, not that there is anything wrong with that) at Jonah’s prompting and saw that they are calling for an end to Joc era, that’s enough to make me want to reconsider my last posting, except I have been calling for the end to Joc for some time now (No Brutus not a homosexual reference)
There is no way Vinny would want to step on young Joe Davis. He’s too much of a man to do that, and he was given a shot when he was very young so he’s going to want to do the same for Joe.
Good ole Joc. He must have some blackmail data on Mr. Sock Puppet…..
Figure The three man bench continues until Gonzalez returns..
His stats on rehab are still iffy (to me) but what is the team going to do? Waive him? No way.
When he’s ready maybe Stripling goes down? Then when Kershaw returns…. maybe Wood gets a rest on the 10 day. Call it a blister or sore tooth?
Good one, Brutus….
Got the name wrong. Not that it matters (it’s fake.)
Et tu, Blute?
We have players in our line up, that are not producing.
And Agone is a much better option, if he is healthy.
Right now, both Joc and Forsythe are not doing much against righties.
And believe me, a healthy Agone, is much better hitter, then those two players, will ever be.
And if Agone isn’t right, he won’t keep himself in the line up, because he is a stand up guy.
I hope you are right.
The lineup is great and deep, but is slightly top-heavy. A productive Gonzalez will go a long way to strengthen the back half.
Let’s hope he contributes and the others rally!
Like I said, if he isn’t producing after a while, he won’t keep himself in the line up, so there is no big risk here.
And Forsythe has not shown any power, or hit many extra base hits this year, so even if Agone is not driving pitches, he will still be better then Forsythe, because I doubt he wil get many at bats, against lefties..
And remember Joc didn’t do anything with his bat last year, until September.
Not sure what your point is, but great.
I don’t agree about Joc last year, but you have your own interesting analysis there. I know it well.
Still waiting to hear from you why walks should have no value in rating a player’s batting ability. Also waiting to hear why a walk is more indicative in skill than a weak grounder that finds a hole, a bunt, or a weak pop fly that falls in front of a OFer.
It is the truth that Joc only hit well, in September and October combined, and he had more at bats, in August, so those months combined, were more like one month, and he hit well, in eight games in July, when he came off the DL.
That is what the stats say.
Walks have nothing to do with a player’s ability to hit.
Walks are in the hands of pitchers, not hitters!
If a pitcher throws strikes, a hitter doesn’t have the control to change that!
And all of those others things you have brought up, even good hittters, do that!
And those other things can advance runners, and can get runs home, unlike a walk, that only brings runs home, if the bases are loaded!
And all of those things you mentioned, are something good that can happen, when a hitter puts the ball in play!
Once again you are raising a nonsensical point.
If you know of any pitcher who intentionally or unintentionally only throws strikes, then perhaps I’ve been watching a different game.
The point of the game is not to put the ball into play. The point of the game is to score runs. No, scratch that, the point of the game is to score more runs than the other team. Most at bats have three true outcomes: Walk, contact, strikeout. If you do any one, and only one, of those every time you are guaranteed to win. That’s walking. This is absurd, but it does show that walks have value. They are a path to scoring.
Despite not being an out and getting on base, walks have other benefits. They increase a pitchers pitch count by at least four (not counting HBP). They impact the pitches called, they test a pitchers confidence.
Don’t go down the “other things” road, it goes both ways.
Look, if you think hits are more valuable than walks I think that case an be made. They are definitely more fun to watch! But if you seriously think walks have no offensive value, then I’m truly amazed and saddened.
Either way, can we please not discuss it again?
At the end of the season last year Pederson was, on aggregate, the third or fourth best hitter on the team.
I don’t think Pederso. Is all that. He’s way too streaky for me, and fiddles with his stance and swing too much. But he was better than average on the who,e last year. Keep telling yourself otherwise.
I never said walks don’t have value!
I said they shouldn’t have the same value as a hit!
Sure hitters can work a count to possible get a better pitch, but you are a numbers guy, so you must know that most hitters, get a good pitch, early in their at bats.
Because pitchers, don’t like to get behind on hitters.
There is a big different in a 2 and one count, then a one and two count, and the odds are very different in these counts.
Some pitchers are going to try to pitch around certain hitters, and then, a walk might be good thing to take, if you are not going to get a decent pitch to hit.
And that is a definite pattern with Joc.
And don’t you think if the Dodgers thought he was one of their top hitters, wouldn’t they be hitting him, at the top of the line up.
He also can’t hit lefties, and that is why he is a platoon player.
Onc again you are arguing nonsense and irrelevant things.
Who the hell cares about counts and working pitches. We are talking about results, not processes. It doesn’t matter when you get a pitch to hit. It matters you have a positive result from an at bat and we both now agree that a walk is positive and has value.
Of course the Dodgers like Pederson. He has been a great defensive player (arguably except for this year) has been a good power hitter, is young, works hard, and costs little. He has produced and has potential. The team just needs him to produce again.
FINALLY, Two things:
1.If we agree walks have value, then we agree batting average is a bad metric. It gives walks no value.
2. Now you see why OPS is a key metric. In slugging Walks don’t have any value. It is a metric for how well you HIT the ball. In OBP it has the same value as any hit, because the metric is ONLY EVALUTING the ability to get one’s self on base without an out.
Batting average has some value and use, but it has deficiencies and limitations.
And you do the same!
But the Dodgers are doing well, and it is about the team, as a whole!
I don’t like to see a young player struggle either!
And I thought Joc might have had it, earlier in the season, during those hundred at bats.
Let’s just hope he has another really good, one hundred at bats, sometime this year!
She reads the stats the way she wants to see them and has not one iota of understanding how hard it is to play the game and raise your average 36 points like Joc did from his first year to his second. Through arguing with her, she is so full of IT> Joc is not playing to the same level this year, we all know it. Yet she sits there and beats her tom tom trying to go on the warpath. Tired of it.
Bull shit. Walks are a part of the game and always have been and they factor into a players OBP. Taking pitches is an art form.
Don’t know it’s an art form, but agree that the value is a base. All bases garnered from an at bat contribute to OPS. From an old coach’s perspective it’s
“keep the line moving”. They have to get 27 outs. Don’t give them any by swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. A player’s batting average on making contact with pitches out of the strike zone is below Mendoza. Don’t do it. Art form? Maybe. Plate discipline? Definitely.
Joc had 36 at bats in July, and he had 78 at bats in August and 69 at bats, in September and October Combined.
So Joc hit well in 105 at bats, in the second half.
Most everyday players, get close to 100 at bats in a month, except in a shortened month like in
July, because of the break, so that isn’t close to a full second half of at bats, because Joc was on the DL in July.
And Joc is mostly platooned, so he is mainly only facing righties, because he can’t hit lefties.
And Joc had 109 at bats in June and July combined this year, because he was on the DL, until the middle of June.
And I think he came back on June 13, and this was the time Joc was also hitting well again, much like he did last year, in those 105 at bats.
It seems like a pattern with him!
And remember he did nothing, in those first two months of the season, this year.
177 at bats, check the stats lady. In 2016 he had 177 at bats after the all star break, check the splits, YOU ARE WRONG. Get off the Pederson bashing train. We all know what he did.