Here are the Very Interesting Details of Justin Turner’s New Contract

We’ve heard about it for a while, and today the details of Justin Turner‘s new contract hit the wires. According to Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports, the Dodgers have awarded Turner four years and $64 million dollars.

Here’s how it all breaks down:

$4M signing bonus

$12M in 2017

$11M in 2018

$18M in 2019

$19M in 2020

Turner will receive $1M each time (if) he’s traded, and he’s giving 1% of his salary to a charity of his choice.

Turner has steadily improved in his time with the Dodgers. After three years with the club, he’s put up a line of .296/.364/.492, with a 13.1 WAR. All that with struggling mightily in the first third of 2016.

The Dodgers have now wrapped up deals with a top starter, an elite closer, and a power hitting third baseman. Not a bad way to close 2016.  Let’s hope they start off 2017 with a new second baseman.

Oscar Martinez

Oscar Martinez

I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and was immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully has been the golden voice of summer all of my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodger manager I have ever known. My favorite things are great coffee, cold beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.

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238 thoughts on “Here are the Very Interesting Details of Justin Turner’s New Contract

  1. Interesting how?

    $16 million in ’17. That’s the most interesting number to me. Seems to be a popular amount with FAZ. Must be a sabermetric thing. He will likely earn that money. And earn it again the following year. ’19 and ’20? I don’t know.

    1. I think the $11M in 2018 is the most interesting number. It might be indicative of FAZ seeing that year as the year they get under the payroll penalty threshold. Ethier and Crawford gone. Agon traded? No more big contracts before 2019?

    2. I agree, i don’t see how it’s the least bit interesting. Every contract has variances and clauses.

      No, not every, but many.

    1. Always in the mix somehow when it comes to Dodgers scoring but it took awhile for him to receive his due respect. He’ll earn it all – no worries!

  2. I am afraid this would have been lost in the last thread. Can one of you tech savvy people please put a page where we can set up something to donate to in honor of Roger Dodger.
    Maybe something through his ministry in his name.
    Would be super cool.
    Some how name it in a way of LADT and LADR friends and family if possible.
    Thank you

    1. Thanks for bringing it up on this thread as I hadn’t had time to read what I’ve missed yet. I just wish it was better news. Roger always displayed the utmost class and respect towards all in every word he’s written. At least every word I’ve read of his. It’s sad we’re not getting further current issues. I’d like to read the books he authored. Respects Roger, RIP

    2. Tim,

      Roger was a survivor of Amyloidosis. It is a rare disease, but most people do not beat it. Roger did, and we visited Amyloidosis victims while in Spring Training at Vero Beach. We went to dinner with a lady and her husband a few days before she died. Roger was grateful that his stem cell transplant cured him and was passionate about helping these people. If you want to Honor Roger, go here and donate:

      http://memorialwebsites.legacy.com/rogersobin/Homepage.aspx

      which leads you here:

      http://www.amyloidosis.org/

      RIP, Roger – Godspeed!

    1. Mark

      Is that your second new puppy or the one you got last year?

      Because I know those type of dogs are big and built.

      And it takes two years for big dogs to reach adult hood.

      1. No, our Rott, George Cooney, died in the Spring and we just got Quinn about 2-1/2 months ago.

        Here’s his dad (who is a buck fifty):

        Image and video hosting by TinyPic

        He’s completely housebroke and a very chill dog. It is said that Cane Corso’s are almost “aloof” when they mature.

        1. Mark

          You don’t want an aloof dog do you, unless he is only aloof to people outside of your family.

          I think most big dogs are more chill then small dogs, and that is why they are better with children.

          He is probably going to be a very sweet dog, that still scares people, just with his size.

          Those dogs are built.

  3. That was smart for Turner to donate one percent of his earnings to charity.

    It is not only a nice thing, it might help a little with his taxes.

    I don’t know if he will be worth his contract at the end of his contract, but I do know he won’t stop playing hard.

    And really, does most players produce during the entire length of there contract?

    I guess they will have to wait until after 2018, to give Corey a contract that will buy out some of his free agent years, just because of the way the payroll will drop in 2018.

    And Bum, if the Dodgers are in the pennant race, they probably won’t be trading Agone at the trade deadline in 2018.

    But Agone will be able to help Bellinger make his transition to the bigs, easier if that happens.

    And remember Bellinger plays centerfield too.

    1. I love it MJ. I will try my best to not leave Agon out of the Dodgers’ future from here on out. He is a Dodger and I have always liked him. I look forward to Spring Training and watching Calhoun and Agon compete in a 40 yard dash (dash?)

      I read where he is tinkering with his swing this off-season.

  4. I do not think Bellinger could be an everyday CF – he can play anywhere in the OF, but is probably best suited for LF if he doesn’t play 1B. His arm is OK… not great. I think he’s already a better 1B than A-Gon because he has more range.

    1. I would need to see him in action before I believe he’s better than AGon and his 4 GG.

      But then, Gonzalez has accumulated nearly 5 -dWAR in his career. I guess the folks who hand out Gold Gloves don’t use the stats. They must use their eyes. Obviously old timers and out of touch with today’s game.

  5. There’s no question Adrian is a Gold Glover. Cody has a LOT MORE range. As slow as Gonzo is, that is not hard to believe, but I also think Cody has the softest hands I have seen. He’s Keith Hernandez-esque! Hernandez won 11 straight Gold Gloves – the most ever!

    Cody is of that ilk!

    1. That’s what I have heard about Bellingers defense too.

      It is only his bat that he has to prove, that is major league ready.

      But part of the reason that Agone plays such a good first base, is because he never panics, when he makes a throw, or a play.

    2. At the corner infield positions it’s about quickness, not speed. Obviously AGon has quick hands. Maybe his feet are too – for one step.

    1. It might be Calhoun’s strong legs, that helps him have so much power for his size.

      But your description of his legs is funny, because when I think of tree trunks, I don’t think about a smaller player.

      On my high school basketball team, are coach got a couple of really tall girls to play, but they were not really athletic.

      And the mean girls on our team, called both of them tree trucks, because they were close to five ten or five eleven.

      And all they really did, was mainly plug up the key.

      I could even beat them in a jump ball.

  6. Maurice Jones-Drew – oak tree trunks. 4.39 40.

    Willie Calhoun – Aspen tree trunks. Who cares 40.

    I just hope he continues to hit. If we don’t want him, somebody else will.

    1. Wondering

      I liked your other avatar better.

      But maybe this is how your feeling right now.

      Igore was charming in his own way, and I guess I was not a big Mad magazine person.

      I don’t know if this is true, but it seems like guys, liked and got Mad, more then girls did.

        1. All any of us really needed to know about everything was found in Mad Magazine. We get it from The Simpsons and South Park now.

          1. When I saw a girl in a tower, and they had her and arm pit hair, flowing down, to be rescued, I thought that was just gross.

    1. Wondering

      Madonna had hair under her under arms, in that magazine.

      The pictures were taken before she was famous, like Vanessa Williams.

      What kind of music did you like when you were younger?

      I know it seems that you like musicals a lot.

      And that one video you posted, was swing music wasn’t it?

      1. Right. Swing music from the 30s and 40s, listen to it all day on my computer. But there is a lot of classical mixed in, Gershwin, Beethoven, Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Borodin, etc… Funny, Glenn Miller, then Guy Lombardo, followed by Spike Jones and the City Slickers, then Artie Shaw, a lot of Helen Forest and Dick Haymes, maybe Dinah Washington or Duke Ellington, on and on… And I love musicals, I may dig out a couple to watch tomorrow, the Internet will be dead. West Side Story, Showboat, Guys and Dolls, all great.

        1. Wondering

          My father liked swing music.

          But that wasn’t the popular music during your youth right?

          I know some of the musicians that you mentioned, are jazz.

          The only musicals that I have really liked, were A Chorus line, and Grease, the movie version.

          I can’t even imagine what you think about the popular music, of today.

          You seem pretty well read too.

          1. I watched Chorus Line in the mid-70s maybe at the Pantages. It wasn’t what I expected but wound up being maybe my favorite. It lingers well in my soul.

          2. I have been to two plays on stage in my life…..Bleacher Bums at a small theater in Torrance, and Phantom of the Opera at the Pantages about 25 years ago. Both were well done.

          1. How many and on what dates Wonder? We’ll have to send Mark some cards.

            Never read Mad Magazine? Don’t like the Simpsons or South Park? Why am I not surprised?

            Christmas morning and we got 6″ of snow. I built me a nice fire, gonna find a Mad to read and watch the Simpsons Christmas Special later. Gonna be a fine day. Merry Christmas everyone.

          2. I’ll take the under on Badger reading a Mad magazine and watching the Simpsons today.

            Merry Christmas everybody.

          3. How much you willing to lay?

            I say 500 push-ups.

            Just like Mark did on every bet we made you’d lose Bum.

            Mad is available online and the Simpsons are on from 5-9 tonight on FXXHD.

          4. Badger, I bet one push up and accepted defeat and did my push up. Merry Christmas.

            MJ, you mean the one about T & A?

    1. I read Mad….I think 90% of the guys in the service did. I loved spy vs spy. But on the other hand, I think that the Simpsons and South Park are both moronic trash. My nephews watch South Park all the time, so when I am here in Cali, I am obliged to watch an episode or two. The Simpsons has all the appeal of a rotten tuna sandwich. No thanks, I would rather watch Roseanne and I cannot stand that woman.

      1. It is hard to move forward if we don’t loosen our grip on the past. If Christmas is lonely and we are able, one way to participate in it would be to serve meals somewhere, etc.

        Michele and Art, I am adding love and peace to the ether and visualizing it hovering over your heads this Christmas. Don’t accept sadness.

        1. Bum

          I am not loney, I just haven’t been a Christmas person.

          And don’t take what I said so serious or heavy, I was more just playing with you.

          I home you have a nice Christmas.

  7. Did everyone see that the Giants signed Ruggiano?

    He was on the Mets toward the end of the season, and he hit a grand slam off Bumgarner.

    He might be a better bench player then Scotty, against lefties.

    1. MJ
      I think you have a lot to do with this commentary being an interesting endeavour.
      A bit more than “Endeavouring to Persevere” and I salute your Perseverance to keep things rolling.
      Have a nice Xmas and thanks
      Karl

    1. 24% brought a future that’s hazy, democracy won’t work here because the people are lazy.

      We had a chance to get this thing right, but we sat on our hands while Trump turned out the light.

      Merry Christmas everyone.

      1. The sad truth is that few people are qualified or justified in living in a democracy. Needless to say, our democracy is a long way short of perfection. Humanity is best served by a competent and benevolent dictator. Call him King, Emperor, President or whatever, it is almost impossible to find a man or woman who is truly qualified to do the job. Most, perhaps all, of us have flaws, greed, avarice, envy, anger, and assorted mental problems. I have determined to have as little as possible to do with Authority and the part of the world (the very large part) that I cannot influence, to live my small life and gratefully pass on into whatever comes next. My philosophy and welcome to it.

        1. Lust greed anger attachment and ego. The 5 passions. Every human has all 5. Some more out of balance than others. And yes, our democracy is imperfect. But I contend it’s because we’ve allowed it through negligence to become a plutocracy. Now we have the worst of plutocracies, a demagogue in chief.

          But, who knows, maybe this reality show eccentric is exactly what you think we need – a benevolent dictator. Good luck with that.

          And I too will live my life out as I choose. I don’t think any individual firebrand politician can touch me personally. Hopefully the jackboots don’t show up at my door in the middle of the night. Only once per family, please.

          Happy Holidays Wonder!

        2. Wondering

          Yes we are all human.

          I think the president that was the best human being was Carter, but he wasn’t ready, and I think no one is really ready, except those who we’re fated to be president.

          But this Russian thing kind of reminds me, of when Reagan was going in, and suddenly the hostages were released.

          And I didn’t see that movie about this, so I am saying this, a little blindly.

          It just feels somewhat the same way.

          1. I read somewhere there are certain professions–Policeman and preacher were mentioned— whose duties automatically made anyone who wanted the job, unqualified for it. I think President needs to be on that list as well.

    1. Wondering

      I could see that as being the truth.

      How many times have we seen people in those careers, take big falls.

      I couldn’t do that, and I know that, and like you said, most are not made to do that.

      The scary ones, are the people that don’t realize they are not meant to have these type of careers, but they still pursue these careers.

  8. 5 years and a day ago I had a very serious stroke on the right side of my brain that had both left limbs paralyzed. Xmas eve in the hospital emergency after a urinal malfunction as I shockingly discovered one needs use of all their limbs for a task as simple as turning on his side ended with me pouring the not emptied from my previous usage urinal on myself. I was wishing I hadn’t called my brother for help and instead stayed at home where putting a bullet in my head was possible. But I wasn’t at home and the means to end it all were not convenient which lead me towards the path of some serious rehabbing. I was told that I had a 1 year window to regain functions and that’s pretty much what I’d end up with. I found that was not the truth. I still am gaining more strength and coordination even after 5 years and it was a lot of hard work. One of the things that helped me greatly was the conversation at LADT about how punctuation and such was important and at that time I was typing with one finger right hand only. I remember using my right hand to lift and place my left finger on the shift key for a capital letter. I think I fake it pretty good with my typing skills. I fake it even better with walking. I don’t need the rail going up stairs but down stairs….well I try but often have to grab the rail. What I’m blabbering about is to say thanks that you’ve all been part of my getting leaps and bounds better than a bullet in my brain. HAPPY HOLIDAY!

    1. A good success story for Christmas. Hang in there and keep on gaining. It takes a lot more courage to do that than many of us have. Our troubles seem a lot smaller.

    2. Quas, my wife has had 2 major strokes. the second a brain stem bleed. You can keep rehabbing – as long as you keep working the brain will keep “re-wiring” itself (building neuron pathways to replace damaged ones). You have to keep working at it though.

      Life is absolutely worth living. I don’t know what I would do without my wife and she and I keep each other happy and going. Merry Christmas.

    3. Quas

      I was a lot luckier then you were, because I only had a minor stroke

      But I had my stroke in the right side of the brain too.

      And we were both lucky, because I think if it is in the left hemisphere, it can affect your ability to reason, and to communicate.

      You were pretty lucky that you could communicate to your brother, because you would have been worse, if you didn’t get to the hospital sooner.

      I couldn’t talk when I had mine, because my voice came out like a cartoon voice, so I didn’t get right in like you did, so that helped you a lot.

      And Rick is right, your body and your brain, can work around almost anything, and learn to adjust and learn a new way, to get things done.

      So don’t let others put limitations on you, and don’t let yourself do that either.

      I consider myself really lucky, because what caused me to have a stroke, was something that was only temporary.

      I had undiagnosed Diabetes, and that caused me to have high blood pressure.

      And I only had that at the time, because I was on steroids to long, so I don’t have that anymore.

      But even after that, I eventually was able to ride my exercise bike, and I do that for a hour, so keep up your hard work.

  9. You know a name we haven’t heard mentioned much is Trayce Thompson. Not much in that trade has worked out for the Dodgers. Will Thompson heal from two stress fractures? If he does, he could be a right handed thumper this team needs. 13 home runs in 236 at bats, career .469 slugging % in only 358 ML at bats. Is he in the plans? Steamer doesn’t think so.

    1. I like the guy. He and SVS could make a difference. Maybe Thompson and Toles platoon in LF and SVS gives AGon more rest than he has been getting. If Toles isn’t the guy then we still have Ethier. I would like for Pederson and Puig to not be platooned. I don’t want to ever see Kike’ in CF again.

      I am still interested in signing Tolleson but otherwise I would like to see Taylor and Kike’ get a real shot at second base. Maybe Calhoun can jump up mid-season.

      1. Bum

        We have to get a good hitter, either that plays second, or somewhere else on the field.

        Are we won’t be equipped to beat the Giants.

        The Giants added Moore just to take advantage of our weakness.

        We have to adjust back!

          1. Maybe Thompson, but I have lost faith in Scotty.

            I wonder if it was only that one Dback pitcher, that he could hit.

            And if we don’t get another player, I don’t want to see Kike and the other guy at second.

            There probably won’t be enough production from those guys, to get by.

            They are more AAAA players.

            And actually, Charlie out hit them both last year.

    2. Badger

      They will give Thompson a very long look in spring training this next year.

      It is hard to know if his average went down, because he was playing hurt, or just the at bats caught up with him.

      All of that, and the team needing so much help, in hitting lefties, will get Thompson a long look for sure.

      Before his numbers started going down, at least Thompson had very even splits.

      That is how it should be.

      I was really suprised that the front office gave Scotty a guaranteed contract, this soon.

      But that may just be for the same reason, that Thompson will get a long look.

      I not big on Dozier, but we have to get some help with lefties, and they can’t just depend on these type of players, to get it done.

      We need a good hitter, not just a platoon type hitter.

      I thought Puig was going to play winter ball in the DR, but I guess that was all talk, because he isn’t playing.

      Puig needs to find a way to hit better, especially in clutch situations.

      It is like he falls apart everytime he has an at bat of this type, and he swings wildly at pitches out of the strike zone.

      1. SVS is arbitration eligible. It was give him a contract and position on the 40 man roster or non-tender him and let him go on waivers. Only if every other team in MLB passed on him (and that wasn’t going to happen) could he be offered a minor league contract or non-roster invitation to Spring Training.

          1. Have none. Maybe get some pulled pork out of the freezer, make some French Fries and Cole Slaw, I think there’s one beer left in the refrigerator from the 18 pack I bought a year ago. What’s it all about, Alfie?

        1. Hawkeye

          I just have heard this stuff every year from Puig, and it seems like it is more talk then action.

          I don’t know if the team told him not to play winter ball.

          I know when he first came back he tried to be patient, and he has done that at times, but it just seems that after it doesn’t work as fast as he wants, he starts to get inpatient.

          I am not judging just this year, because he wasn’t given many at bats, after a while, so it was hard for him to do better.

          It just we hear every year that Puig is going to come back and do better, and it only lasts for a short time.

          Puig does need help hitting so I was glad he said he was playing winter ball, but he didn’t play.

          I don’t see a reason why the Dodgers wouldn’t want him to play, unless they want to trade him.

          Apparently Kike is playing winter ball, and he is hitting exactly what he hit in the major leagues.

          Mark said he might be working on something, but he doesn’t know that for sure.

  10. Greetings to you all from the UK.

    Been a great day with 14 of us here, ranging from 3 to 79.

    Hope you all enjoy yourselves, and so glad to hear you are doing so well Quas. Keep it going pal.

  11. Seasons Greeting from Indy. We had my kids and family and my ex-mother-in-law today (her daughter, son and husband are all gone, so she has adopted me as her son). I think we had 16 for dinner. It’s rare these days to get all three kids together – my daughter lives 3 hours away and my eldest son live in NYC and is a world traveler with the likes of Morgan Freeman, Bruce Springsteen, Steve Martin and many of the other rich and famous. So it was a blast – I am very blessed!
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    1. Is that your daughter?

      Looks like Superboy cut his hair. Doesn’t he know the story of Samson?

      My sources tell me Puig is seeing a sports psychologist, who is also a low and away hypnotist. He should be ready to go by March 1st. Puig, not the hypnotist. He’s ready to go now. The hypnotist, not Puig. Puig will be ready to go March 1st. But I already said that. Weren’t you listening?

  12. Happy Boxing Day! This might be my favorite Holiday simply because it means Thanksgiving and Christmas are in the trash can and New Years is only a week away. Then the world can get back to what passes for normal these days….

    1. Good holiday Wonder. I’m taking the day off. But, then, I’m off every day. No big deal. But wait…. that means every day is a holiday. That’s good news! But, it’s not news. I’ve been retired since I moved to Sedona. I need more coffee.

      Quas, I’m reading an excellent book my Stanford M.D. Sister-in-law recommended to me. “Power Up Your Brain – The Neuroscience of Enlightenment”. It’s co-authored by a neurologist and a shaman and it beautifully brings together the long separated disciplines of science and spirituality. Yes, you can rejuvenate those parts of the brain shut down and at the same time ignite that which defines us as human beings. It’s a great read.

      1. I just bought that book, a digital copy anyway. I’ll be glad to lend it to you, Quas. You can download a free ebook reader for your computer and I can send the book to your email. Let me know…

  13. The Cubs are apparently interested in Tyson Ross, who is coming off thoracic outlet surgery. Are they saying that so teams who lack starting pitching depth (yeah, I say that’s us) will ask “hey, if they’re interested, why aren’t we?”

    Still some interesting arms out there. Hammel, Holland, Feliz, Wood along with Ross.

    1. Badger

      From what I have heard on the MLB Channel, is that almost every team is interested in Ross, except his former team the Padres.

  14. I sincerely hope everyone had a great Christmas. Mine was nice and quiet. Watched a John Wayne marathon later in the evening……

    1. John Wayne huh. Interesting guy. Loved Nixon. Cheated at chess. 5 packs a day. And those rumors about him having several pounds of impacted meat in his colon at death aren’t true.

      1. Badger

        There was a movie that Wayne was in, that almost everyone in this movie, died from cancer.

        It was filmed where they had did nuclear testing I believe.

        And I believe the movie was filmed in the 50s, but I could be wrong about that, but it wasn’t much time,after the testing.

        They dug up the land and used a giant fan, for effects I believe.

        1. That would be “The Conqueror”, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conqueror_(film)) about Ghengis Kahn, if you can believe Wayne cast as an Oriental! Said to be one of the worst movies of all time. Said to be so bad he bought up all the prints of the movie and kept it out of circulation until it was sold by his estate. One of the very few John Wayne movies I have never seen. Wayne’s ex-wife disputed the radiation connect to his death. She claimed it was his constant smoking. I could never understand why a woman would marry a man who smoked or vice versa…

          1. The man allegedly smoked up to 5 packs a day. He also owned a 136′ yacht and had a net worth of $50 million. This explains both why he died and why a woman would put up with his chain smoking habit.

          2. Left out info above. Howard Hughes was the producer and it was he who removed the movie from circulation until his death.

          3. His yacht was a converted mine sweeper. He spent the last years of his life sitting on his back porch/deck on Balboa Island waving to tour boats. Some where in the 40’s maybe you get a deed to swamp land in New Port if you bought a set of encyclopedias. That land was eventually dredged and yachts were tied up to narrow properties with homes that sold for big bucks. Or something like that. Anyway, that is folklore I remember.

          4. The movie was filmed near a nuclear test site. More than 50 people associated with the film died of cancer. Duke’s cancer was from his heavy smoking. He had a lung removed in the early 60’s and was ok for years. The cancer returned and eventually killed him. Susan Heyward, his main co-star died from cancer and Pedro Armendariz committed suicide because he was dying of cancer. His last movie was a James Bond movie and he played a Turkish spy. I have the movie on blu ray and regular dvd. It is basically pretty bad and almost all the Oriental’s are played by white guys. Agnes Morehead played his mother and Pedro Armendariz and William Conrad, who was the voice of the Lone Ranger on radio, played his brothers. And all his wives were exes….he was married 4 times and all his wives were Hispanic. His Yacht, The Wild Goose is still in use in Newport today. It is used for dinner cruise’s. Heyward also co-starred with him in The Fighting Seabee’s

        2. It was a movie the called the conqueror and John Wayne played Ghengis Khan if you can imagine that. Susan Heyward played the love interest. She was Beautiful and died young of cancer also.

      2. If anyone watched the academy awards he appeared on about 1 month prior to his death, there is no way you could have believed that several pounds of meat story. He was so emaciated it was unreal. He was sick during the filming of his last movie, ” The Shootist ” and missed several days of work. He also was not a big fan of the director of the film. But he gave his all as usual. The movie had a stellar supporting cast. Duke was a mans man that is for sure and as macho as they come. But he had a soft spot for servicemen and was as big a patriot as ever lived. I still have his America, Why I Love Her album.

        1. “A mans man for sure.” “As macho as they come.” But he refused to serve in WWII didn’t he. He made movies pretending he was a hero, but he was so attached to Marlene Dietrich he didn’t want to leave her bed to serve.

          1. Refused is a stretch. From what I read, Duke was classified 3A when the war began because of his family. Republic Pictures fought to keep their big star from being reclassified 1A. Of course he could have joined up and I think he regretted not doing so.

          2. From what I read he didn’t want to go. Many other big stars fought hard to go fight, and were allowed to do so. Also, after war Wayne regretted his decision.

  15. A favorite metaphorical defense of the electoral college is that the winner of the World Series is determined by games won, not runs scored. But in the electoral college, some games (and votes) count more than others. California gets one elector for every 713,637 people, Wyoming one for every 195,167.

      1. It’s interesting you should post that Bum as I figured out something similar about those rust belt states that stepped on their own peckers in November. Why a democracy is not decided by votes cast is ridiculous. And the fact 76% of eligible voters did not vote for the winner is downright shameful.

        1. The (LACK OF) quality of candidates is the biggest reason for that. Get some quality people running for office, you’ll see lots of votes for them. You want an easy solution? Outlaw political parties.

          1. Seems to me outlaw political parties by its very wording requires lawmakers. You’d be asking politicians to outlaw themselves. We are where are because we stood by and did nothing while these very people set it up so ALL of them are set for life at our expense. They aren’t going to do a thing to stop the gravy train. The laws are in place, including Citizens United that allows those with money to buy those with legislative power. The wool has been firmly pulled over our eyes. How do we the people change this? Grass roots movements right in your home town. Fire all of them from the dog catcher to the mayor to state senators to the governor. It may be too late. It’s too late for me. I’m too damn tired to keep fighting. This last one kicked my ass. Good luck young America. Hope your generation does a better job with this than mine did.

    1. Bum

      That is why I think it needs to be changed.

      People might not like people from California, but Calfornia helps support some of those smaller states, that are getting more electorates then they should.

      Because the state of Calfornia has an economy that is bigger then a lot of country’s.

      Calfornia’s economy helps support education in some of these smaller states, and California has a worse educational system then the state’s we support with are economy.

      This is the second time this has happened in our recent history, so I hope this can be changed, down the line.

      And this time it is even worse, because three million is a lot of votes.

      1. Yes, they hate California but they usually end up copying it. California usually does it first and gets laughed at. Then first thing you know, some other states are doing the same. I give you, Colorado, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, and now even Nevada.
        Wyoming? It was the first state in the Union that allowed women to vote, sit on juries, etc.

      1. I think California’s GNP is the 7th largest GNP in the world. It’s GNP is therefore larger than all but 6 countries.

        Middle America seems to hate helping those that are struggling with most of those strugglers having moved to the big cities. But middle America gets more Federal Aid than it contributes whereas California contributes more to the Federal government than it gets back. Another example of middle America hypocrisy.

        I always dislike those that say we have too much regulation without saying which regulations they want to eliminate. We have become complainers and gripers. Oops, what did I do there?

  16. California is a model state. Take note Umerika. Scrape the rust off your belt and get your collective crap together. Follow The California Model dammit.

    Proudly brought to you by the Left Coast Bias Committee.

    1. We have found something we can totally agree on Badger. California is a great place to live, work and play, and with the services we get I’ll take the high taxes. I have always been proud to pay my taxes. According to some I guess that makes me stupid. Hate the Giants but like SF politics. Lived in the greater LA area for 64 years and I have absolutely no complaints. Worked as an Ironworker out of local 433 LA for 42 years and NEVER missed a Lick of work ever. Put my 5 girls through college. I now have a great pension along with social security and medicare that I paid into for 42 years and I have to watch nice guys like Paul Ryan try to cut and gut the system. He’s number 1 with the middle finger. Confirmed social democrat now and getting ACTIVE , kinda like the tea party but without the lies. This will be the last politics I will EVER mention on this a baseball site. Gooo BLUE… in more ways then 1.

      1. Well said ’58.

        An old Union guy. I’m impressed. It’s guys like you that built this country and it was done through organized labor. God bless you my friend. I fear the days of men like you are long in our rear view.

        The California model needs to be promoted. It’s working. And let us not forget, taxes are THE PEOPLE’S MONEY! Spend it on the people! Create schools and build infrastructure. Create jobs NOT WAR!

        1. My father was a union Ironworker for 48 active years. His 3 uncles were founders of the local back in the early 20s. It was a tough trade filled with tougher men and pretty much still is. We’ve been at war for 16 years now with peace not in sight. Spending 52 % of the yearly federal $ on defense. Be nice to give peace a chance. Has not been a just war since WW2 when the working class of America showed it’s quality. Military Industrial complex rules this country sorry to say. Eisenhower warned us.

          1. Yeah, Ike did. He saw it coming. Don’t know how to stop it now. Too much of our economy is driven by the war machine. I read a book years ago, Natural Capitalism, Creating the Next Industrial Revolution- by some PhD, Paul Hawkin I believe. The whole premise was, if we start now (written in ’98 or ’99) using technology we get off the fossil fuel model, and replace it with harmonious ecological friendly solutions, solar, wind, geothermal etc, creating tens of thousands of jobs and saving the planet. To date, we haven’t done it. And the new cabinet members won’t lead us that direction. Oh well, like I said, good luck kids. Sorry we are leaving such a mess, but, I’ll leave you with this advice – don’t elect any more political leaders over the age of 50.

            My ancestors, both sides, were roughnecks in the oil fields of Oklahoma, Texas and later Southern California. I was the first to get a college education.

            We have more in common than we don’t ’58. That’s probably true with most of us here. As much as we bark at each other, there isn’t anyone here I wouldn’t help if help were needed.

          2. Since 1958

            You are proof that not all union people don’t do there jobs.

            I am in a union too, and it is only a few people who don’t do there job, and try to take advantage of a union.

  17. My New Year’s Baseball Resolution: To be realistic with 66 and expect only .260; 65;12. Hard to disappoint from there, I think. Of course, to get there he will have to have 500 at bats. That will be the hard part. With those numbers, he would be an average right fielder, which is all he is, I guess. And to think that at one point in the not too distant past, he was supposed to be better than Cespedes. Projections again.

  18. The metropolitan areas almost always vote Democrat for obvious reasons, but consider that 2,623 counties were won by Trump vs. 400 some counties won by Clinton. I can make an argument both for and against the electoral college. I guess it depends upon whether your side won or lost!

    1. Not at all. It’s simply about majority rules. I don’t care what side wins or loses, it’s about majority rule. Those who don’t believe in that concept are those who continue to find ways to win elections without winning a majority. You might want to give some unbiased thought to that – if you can.

    2. The second amendment was passed when muskets were the most powerful personal weapon. The Electoral College was created before TV, Radio, Internet, automobiles, airplanes, Faux news, etc.

      If the desire of the Electoral College is to not let a few most populated states have too much influence on who gets elected, then at least don’t make each state’s electoral votes be winner take all. Share them proportionally by the percent of votes a candidate gets.

      The Founders of the United States warned against Parties because they thought politics was supposed to be rational and collaborative, not competitive.

      1. IMO the Electoral College is an artifact of slavery. There were more white voters in the North (only men of property could vote remember) than the South so something had to be done to even the odds. The EC should have ended long ago.

        1. Precisely. It seems obvious doesn’t it. Yet, the EC remains. One has to ask – why? Then one is reminded – whatever the question, the answer is money. You can be assured, if the plutocracy wanted majority rule, the Electoral College would be gone tomorrow.

    3. Mark

      You know what Gerry mandering is, and because of that, counties don’t mean a thing.

      The point is that three people in Maine, shouldn’t have more pull, then a million people in another state.

      And what is good about this last election, is that people are more aware of the electory votes.

      And because of this, maybe we will finally change this in the system.

    1. Lower your expectations and he won’t disappoint.

      Steamer has him projected at 2.9 WAR. Depth Charts at 3 WAR. I figure he, like damn near everyone on our 25 man, is a platoon guy, so that being the case I’d be thrilled with 2.5 WAR. For $8.2mm that would be a steal.

      1. Puig parties in Miami. That is where his house and home is as well. I think he would love to be part of the Marlins other than his buddy being the Manager.

        That said, I would like for Puig to be the full time right fielder for the Dodgers, other than when he threatens the well being of fellow defenders.

  19. The University of California charged $86 a semester for tuition and it cost $5 a semester for Community College in 1965.

    California provided its students with far better education K-12 than other states. If California’s educational system has slipped since then maybe it is due to the immigration of other state’s populations into California and the overcrowding that followed.

    But, I am getting caught by surprise by comments here that say California’s education system is no longer the best in America.

    1. Prop 13 pulled the rug out Bum. I was there when it happened. When I started teaching in ’80 we were coming off a string of Top 5 finishes among the 50 states. Within a few years it collapsed, and it was all about funding.

  20. 1 – We don’t have a democracy (mob rule) – we have a democratic republic
    2 – The electoral college is part of the republican form of government – voters elect electors by state and electors vote for president
    3 – The original 13 states were sovereign nations under the Articles of Confederation. They gave up a portion of their sovereignty but not all of it when they adopted the Constitution. (It was the states that adopted the Constitution – not the people. It wasn’t done by majority vote either, for the same reason.) Thus the electors from each state vote for president – it is done state by state. (It’s called federalism.)
    4 – The Electoral College is part of the Constitution. By Bumsrap’s reasoning, throw out the whole Constitution.
    5 – The “California model” (whatever that is) – explain why there has been an exodus of business from California and the bulk of population growth has been due to foreign immigration and high birth rates among the immigrant population. People vote with their feet.
    6 – While some of the founders were against political parties (read the Federalist Papers’ essays on “faction” authored by James Madison), those same founders formed parties within 4 years of Washington’s 1st inauguration. People have different opinions and get together with others who have similar opinions to try to elect people with the same opinions. What’s wrong with that?
    7 – Taxes are ” the people’s money”. So why not let people keep their own money rather than have it confiscated by the government and redistributed to others?

    I hope that this is my last post on politics on this site.

    1. Why? You have a wealth of knowledge to share with us. I learned several things from your post that I had forgotten or never learned in school. I would hate to think you think so little of us you won’t correct our errors and share your knowledge.

      1. Dodger rick

        I don’t care what you say about business leaving Califonia.

        California’s economy is still one of the best.

        And Bum didn’t say, throw the constitution out.

        And I noticed that you conveniently, didn’t explain the different reasons, that the electorate was put into affect.

        1. And by the way, most businesses and jobs, are going out to other countries.

          This isn’t just happening, in California.

          And the way that you described California was being populated, sounds a lot like, how the US was populated too.

    2. Rick, I said: “then at least don’t make each state’s electoral votes be winner take all. Share them proportionally by the percent of votes a candidate gets.”

      Rick, you then said: “4 – The Electoral College is part of the Constitution. By Bumsrap’s reasoning, throw out the whole Constitution.”

      How did you take that jump?

      You tend to sell your arguments by positioning others’ comments toward the ridiculous. I once said that the Dodgers would get by if not thrive (something like that anyway) with a rotation made up from Urias, De Leon, Stewart, Buehler, Holmes, Alvarez, and you disagreed saying a rotation full of the likes of Latos types would be bad. That is why people don’t like attorneys. They too often like to manipulate the facts.

  21. 1. Yeah, that’s true. And our elected leaders don’t do what we want. In fact, they do the plutocrats bidding. How do we stop that?
    2. Yeah, we know that
    3. Explain how and why “the electoral college” was ever adopted. If you have trouble with that, I’ll give you a hint – 3/5 of a person
    4. Ever heard of amendments? There are quite a few of them
    5. Where do you live?
    6. You have to ask “what’s wrong”? Look around man.
    7. That’s rather naive, even for a lawyer. There are some things that government does better than a H.O.A.

  22. If you google “Why the electoral college?” You will get enough reading for an afternoon. It’s not black and white and short answers don’t suit the facts. It’s flawed however you do it, but it may be less flawed the way it is.

    I agree with what Bum said about the Second Amendment. I think there needs to be better gun control and limits on the magazine sizes, etc. In Indiana, I have a Lifetime Conceal/Carry Permit (which is recognized by about 25 other states), but I have to get my drivers license renewed every 4 years. What kind of stupidity is that? You should have to be checked out every 4 years for a gun permit too. The NRA are idiots!

    1. I am an NRA Life Member and I couldn’t agree with you more. But your permit was sold to you by the same organization that sold you your Driver’s License, so the state legislature takes both raps. The NRA’s ideas of how things should be are just as cock-eyed as any of our governments. I guess our world is at best a compromise. It could be worse…

      1. I’m not a gun person, but have no problem with hunting or protecting your home. The NRA went from a group that represented gun owners and gun safety to a group that represents gun manufacturers.

      1. Consider the NRA a political organization. They have grown far beyond the purpose they were created for. They have many thousands of people on their payroll, not to mention its organic will to survive. To keep the money flowing in, they have gone beyond responsible levels of advocacy, they have aligned themselves with groups most people want nothing to do with. But, be of good cheer, The NRA and the gun culture is on it’s way out. Each generation has been less interested and less involved with guns. Kids now days don’t care. Within 20-30 years, the anti-gun people will be able to get any law they want passed. Have you noticed how the two political parties have aligned themselves on opposite sides of the popular issues? The Republicans seek donations from pro-gun people, ant-abortion people, Traditional Marriage, non-socialized medicine, while the Democrats suck up to the other side? It’s all a farce for money. In their minds they feel about the issues not necessarily in agreement with their parties but they haven’t the guts to say so.

      2. MJ, as long as someone on the No-Fly list can still get a gun then I will go along with you and not let people with mental issues to have one. Some things are just hard to believe.

      3. Well most people who have a history of mental illness that is documented cannot get a firearm. Now I have bought a few firearms in the last couple of years. Every time I have purchased one I have had to have a background check, which I also must pay for. If I had been seeing a doctor for mental problems there is no way I would pass that check. If I have a criminal record or a history of domestic violence, I cannot purchase a firearm. Now it is also true that a person may not have seen a doctor for mental issues and that person gets the firearm. But unless someone takes notice and sends that person to a doctor, how in the world are you going to know if they are unstable or not? A lot of those kind of things go unnoticed and unreported. I am trained in the use of firearms and firearm safety. The chances of me committing a gun related crime are very small. I do not have any so called assault weapons, nor do I see the need for anyone to have large capacity magazines. But I also see no reason for the government to tell me which kind of a weapon I can own. A Henry 44.40 can do just as much damage as any other weapon and it does not have a large ammo capacity. People who commit gun crimes are not always mentally unstable. They might have other issues which have nothing to do with mental stability. I am no gun nut, but neither do I trust the police to be able to respond to a crime being committed at my place of residence in a timely manner. In California their response time is even slower. So I chose to be able to protect myself, and therefore I do not think the federal government nor any private citizen has the right to tell me how to do so.

  23. I don’t think guns are going away anytime soon. The horse is out of the barn. In our city, a very high percentage of 15-25 year-old black men carry guns… most illegally. That’s not racist – just accurate. I’m not sure how we fix it, but in the meantime, I am armed. I’m not scared, but I’m also not stupid!

    1. I agree with both Mark and Art. It will be awhile before all guns are gone but I think large magazines, machine guns, and assault riffles will soon be off the streets and restricted to gun ranges and totally out of incorporated areas.

      1. Wrong, Fred, the place where guns will disappear first will be the ranges and places where sensible honest people use them. The criminals will always have guns. That is the sad part about gun control. Seems clear to me but most non-gun people think it’s just that easy, pass a law and the bad guys will turn in their guns. Doesn’t work that way; the good guys obey the laws, the bad ones don’t.

  24. Every once in a while someone will share their perspective on the meaning of life. I have an open mind, sometimes and here is my two cents on the metaphysicality of things.

    Einstein’s space-time continuum states that the apparent linearity of events depends on the observer. And since all experience is interconnected, and if we become aware of this interconnectedness and allow that interconnectedness into our cognitive processes, we can be aware of all events independent of all time.

    I am not sure what that means but I like it. It makes me think of life’s time line less as a straight line and more as a circle. Life on that circle might begin at any point on that circle meaning that life could begin earlier or later than the prior one. Metaphysically speaking, what we do now could affect our past as well as our future.

    1. “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a consistent one.” – my favorite Einstein quote.

      “I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, …Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism.
      ~ Albert Einstein, as quoted in his New York Times Obituary, April 19, 1955)

      This one I find a bit confusing. I would sure like to ask him his definition of “soul”, as most define it as something separate from mind and body. If you believe in a soul, one would have to ask: what is it, where does it come from, and how can it return to its origin.

  25. For the last 6 or 8 months my email address, which I have had for 17 years, has been inundated with junk, refinance home, Viagra, and similar crap. I attribute most of it to this website, which is about the only one I go to. I did not want to give up my address because all the accounts I do business with use it. So I got a new email address and switched that out with my “real” one. Seems to be working OK, my avatar should be back in place soon or perhaps I’ll get a new one…

  26. Point of order gang. Every state has 2 senators. That is the way the system is set up and it is not unfair. Representative’s on the other hand are based on population. Just because a state has a small population does not mean it does not deserve equal representation in the senate. The House has elections every two years so there is always turnover there. I also do not think that just because California has a larger population, that the way California goes should dictate who is in the White House. The electoral college got it right, and all the crybaby libtards should go get a box of crayons and some play dough to ease their pain. Colorado went for Hillary because of the 3 big city’s in the state, but she was crushed in the rural areas. For me, I want to give the man a chance. He has done nothing yet and all the liberals are shaking in their boots. I think it is laughable and totally moronic. If he turns out to be lousy, hell, contact your representative and ask him to sponsor a move to impeach. But until your worst nightmares turn into reality…..chill…..nothing has gone wrong yet….

    1. Libtards?

      You sound like Timmons with that one.

      The electoral college got it right? They just voted the way they were told to vote. Not a “profile in courage” in any of them.

      We’re all hoping he doesn’t fu*k this up Michael. We will all give him a chance. What choice do we have?

      1. As a former member of the Democratic party, I think that most liberals have lost their collective minds. They have leaned more and more towards socialism, and that for me was the tipping point. I know they voted the way they were told to, but in doing so they did the right thing and upheld a legal election and kept the crayon kids from changing what was legal.

        1. Michael, I’m assuming that you don’t call the socialist police and fire departments when you need help. Don’t use the VA. Stay off the socialist interstates and highways and will be refusing your Social Security and passing on Medicare.

        2. Neither party represent the people they portend to. I wasn’t by any stretch a Hillary supporter, but to me, and millions of others who did vote, this was indeed a lesser of two evils election. You seem to like this guy Trump. I think he’s about one thing – his own ratings. I find him to be an unconscionable con artist. But, who knows. Maybe he surprises everyone.

        3. Michael said: “Point of order gang. Every state has 2 senators.”

          That was the most condescending thing I have read on this blog, ever!

          “Crayon kids”. Wow, just wow. So you want to position those who don’t think like you do as childish?

          “the way California goes should (not) dictate who is in the White House.” So, it is fair that the west coast gets a total of 6 senators and the east coast gets something like 20 senators?

          California could easily be divided into Southern California, Central California, and Northern California. Republicans seem to want prevent people from voting that don’t vote their way and you fall right in Michael.

          1. Voter suppression is obviously still a thing and only one party needs to do it.

            I’ve felt for 40 years now there should be two California’s. Doesn’t appear to be a push for it like there usta was. The Electoral College is a remnant of slave days and must go. It’s time has passed.

        4. Hi Michael,

          Did you see this:

          http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/12/poll-republicans-are-now-more-antifree-market-than-dems.html

          In specific this recent finding:

          55% of conservatives say the free market is failing. Only 31% of liberals agree.

          I would argue that the Democratic Party didn’t move far enough to make their economic platform more broad (and to that extent some would argue more socialistic.) I mean Trump’s major domestic platform was a trillion dollar infrastructure spend!

          1. It is not just California.

            And rural areas usually have less people, and only people vote, so the most votes should be the right way to do this.

            And what is crushing is getting three millon less votes.

            And this guy has made fun of a prisoner of war, and everyone else, and that is why he is so unpopular, to the majority of the people in the US.

        1. I hope the giants don’t get him. Even though he was voted “most likely to recede” I know how some guys get ignited in SF.

        2. Thinking on this. Who is the Cards’ equivalent to DeLeon? Only Martinez and/or Reyes, and they wouldn’t trade either, would they?

          Well, they could trade Wong, I guess. But aren’t the reports that Minnesota wants pitching?

          1. Bluto

            Yes you are right, they need young pitching, badly.

            The Giants are a reach why would they want another second baseman?

          2. Good question MJ. Maybe they don’t trust Panik’s body.

            I don’t think St Louis would trade Reyes, but Weaver is pretty good.

            Cards ready to give up on Wong. When asked why, a team spokesman said “his legs are too short”. Turns out that’s a saber sabatoger.

  27. If Dodgers give up 3 good prospects I want one better prospect back. I don;t want to get 2 years of Dozier for three good prospects.

    1. Mark

      If there is one place that Puig should not bat, it is fourth.

      He doesn’t know how to slow the game down, and he gets even worse, when he is hitting fourth.

          1. You sound like Dr Pangloss here and Dr Doom when you call us a second tier team with AGon at cleanup.

            Which is it Kurt?

  28. Can he believably reinvent himself into the cleanup spot by Opening Day. That would be cool. That is also highly doubtful. I hope it happens, but until further notice Gonzalez hits cleanup.

  29. Once again I gotta wake up to this crapola…
    Oh the Trade, the Trade!!! Mark can’t let it go and I’m relatively sure he’ll have another season to bitch!!! Second tier my ass… Go back to politics MT…
    P.S. I may be one of a few on this site to still believe Puig will break our hearts with his fence post IQ…

  30. Mark, I’m very curious as to how you came into possession of a handgun, not to mention a carry permit? Swearing to a lie on Form 4473 is a another felony, a Federal one. Curious minds want to know…

  31. I am not going to argue politics on here. My opinions are mine. I earned the right to believe what I do. . Agree or not, I really do not care.

      1. Maybe that’s why catbox hasn’t been around. In his mind we just have too much experience for him.

        I’m ready to critique a FAZ move.

        4473. Damn.

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