Something About This Smells

Will Mass Craziness Cost Us Turner and Jansen?

So, the Houston Astros just signed 33 year-old Right hander Charlie Morton to a $14 million/2 year deal. This is a guy who started 29 games in 2011 and 26 in 2014. He has started 27 games the past two years and is 46-71 with a 4.54 ERA for his career with a 1.44 WHIP.  Then, they signed Josh Reddick to an alleged 4 year/$52 million deal.  Josh “Freaking” Reddick!  Forget what he did for the Dodgers last year – he hit .281 with 10 HR and 39 RBI in 439 plate appearances. This is a guy who a certain platoon player and he gets all that loot? Charlie Morton is a totally undistinguished 6th or 7th starter who has below average stuff.  I mean, guys like Brett Anderson and Brandon McCarthy at least have very good stuff (when healthy).

Morton is a guy who has AAA stuff and he gets $7 million a year? A platoon player gets $52 million? Lord help us in signing Jansen and Turner – someone might pay them over $100 million each at this rate of craziness! It seems there a lot of dope-fiends posing as GM’s.  Last year it was Dave Stewart? How did that end up?

I think Turner is likely to get 5 years and maybe $110 million from one of these dope-fiends! Then, in the last two years we will have another guy we wish we could unload. As much as I like him and Jansen, we just may have to put down the crack pipe and walk away!

ARIZONA FALL LEAGUE

In the AFL Cody Bellinger is 9th in BA, 3rd in OPS, 4th in OB%, 3rd in slugging, 1st in doubles, 3rd in RBI, 3rd in HR… and he is only 34th in strike outs! Corey did two stints in the AFL – one at 19, when he hit ,181 and was overmatched and again at 20 when he hit .281. At 20, Cody is better than Corey was in the AFL. LIke Corey, he plays up to his competition. I think he could be ready for The Show if Adrian could be moved. That’s a problem… I have no idea how that could happen and how much the Dodgers would have to pay.

Also, in the AFL, Willie Calhoun is down to .255 and Verdugo hit .140, however Locastro is over .300 too.

WHO IS #2?

Do the Dodgers have a #2 starter? I say yes and his name is Julio Urias. In a whirlwind Rookie year in which he was clearly overmatched and awed early, he righted his ship and finished 5-2 with a 3.39 ERA at age 20.

Let’s look at some other outstanding pitchers first real year ERA:

Kluber – 5.14
Cueto – 4.81
Bumgarner – 3.00
Kershaw – 4.26
Verlander – 3.63
Scherzer – 4.12
Lester – 4.76

Here’s the point – they all kept getting better. J. Urias is a special talent. I would not be surprised if he had an ERA in the high 2.00’s in 2017. I think he will be limited to no more than 170 innings, so maybe he starts late, but do not count him out as a viable #2.

Mark Timmons

Mark is the founder of LA Dodger Talk which ran for nearly 15 years. He has been a Dodger fan for over 50 years and was the first blogger to sit in the Dodger Stadium Pressbox.

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176 thoughts on “Something About This Smells

  1. Well, he’s on the list:

    http://m.axs.com/the-10-best-shortstops-in-mlb-right-now-84644

    I’ll take Lindor. Russell. Maybe Boegarts. Correa.

    #2 starter? Yet to be determined. Urias projects at 141 IP (I’ll take the over on that, 150) with a 3.76 xFIP. Sounds about right. #2? No. #4 maybe.

    I say again, don’t trade our young stars yet. I like Dozier too. Who wouldn’t. There is no reason for the Twins to trade him now unless someone is willing to overpay. Why not just keep Calhoun and turn him into a ML second baseman by drilling him mercilessly. Send him to second base boot camp in Arizona this winter. Let me at him, 300 grounders a day everyday. Two-a-days … 150 in the morning, 150 in the afternoon. He’ll BE Dozier by 2018.

    Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III. Oh Lord.

    1. Badger, hello there first of all, and I don’t want to see the top prospects dealt either. As long as any deal does not include guys like Bellinger, Urias and so on I would be OK. But as far as Reddick getting 4 years at $ 52 million? After the year he had that really is ludicrous. I still say we should try to retain Turner because a trade would cost us way more in what other teams would want from us for a 3rd baseman.

  2. Well, I guess we can see why FAZ values prospects so much!

    Gotta close that southern border and seal off all the drugs going to Houston! I didn’t mind Reddick as much as many here, but, $52M/4yrs is crazy. Definite “dope-fiend” move.

    McCarthy and Kazmir contracts are looking pretty good right now. If they are healthy they are a saleable asset. I agree with you from last thread, I think one or both could also be pretty good for us next year. All we need from them is to eat innings. That allows us to “baby” Urias and the other young studs on innings limits. I also believe, you are right Urias is a 2 in 2017. Why not? He has dominated everywhere he has been after a SHORT period.

    Looks like big time inflation in MLB salaries. I saw where MIdgets are getting cold feet on Jansen and Chapman. Looks like they will target Melancon. Dodger fans need to get real, money does matter and Dodgers have been losing some.

    We should all be very happy if, FAZ signs Turner, beefs up bullpen (including a dominant closer), signs Hill (at reasonable cost), get some right-handed hitting platoon mashers and do “something” about 2nd. I know everybody wants star, two-way, position players, but, we have young CHEAP left handed prospects who are very valuable (Review Mark’s article) supplement them with a platoon option.

    1. Boxout7, hello and my wish would simply be that against LHP we don’t have to see that ‘platoon type’ lineup we saw last year that failed miserably against the. that’s why getting some RH bat that actually can HIT against lefties is needed. I too, want JT to be re-signed, as the FA market for 3B is bare, and a trade for a Longoria type player would cost us a plethora of our top prospects.

  3. Well put Boxout7… MLB is dealing with monopoly money…
    Try and make the Sale-Frazier deal work… Hate like hell to lose Bellinger…

  4. I’m with everyone else that teams are shelling out ridiculous money for guys that maybe be solid but arent “stars”. Congrats to Josh Reddick if he got 4/52 but there’s simply no reason for the Dodgers to do anything like that. I’d pay dearly for JT but that’s partially for what he’s already done for us and what he MAY do for us in ’17 and maybe ’18. After that? Who knows what his body may allow. Platoon with Bellinger as needed? KEEP Bellinger, Urias, DeLeon & Calhoun. There’s a reason everyone wants them.

    1. Dan

      I agree with you about Turner.

      I hoped we could over pay him a little on a three year contract, but it looks like he will get four years to me, because he is older then Reddick.

      I don’t think the last two years, will kill us, because Turner might hold up better, because he hasn’t been an everyday player, most of his career.

      The Dodgers have some advantages over the other teams, when it comes to Turner.

      Because Turner won’t cost us a number one pick, like the other teams.

      And if another team wants Turner, they will have to give him a much better deal then the Dodgers, or Turner will probably stay at home.

      And the last two years on his contract, isn’t going to kill the Dodgers.

      Because Turner is versatile, and can play most of the positions in the infield, except shortstop.

      His flexability makes him a better bet, and two years, is not a long time, if Turner produces at the same level he has, in at least the first two years.

          1. Have you done any kind of analysis of how the Dodgers have made out on that score? For example, if Kazmir cost $16MM last year and brought in .2 WAR, his cost was $80MM/WAR in 2016.

            McCarthy cost $25MM for the past 2 seasons combined and contributed -.5 WAR. I don’t know how negative WAR numbers factor in to the cost of WAR, but obviously he’s not cutting it?

            Here are some other Dodgers’ WAR per Baseball Reference.com
            Turner 4.9 A Gonzalez 2.1 Utley 2.0
            Seager 6.1 Grandal 2.7 T Thompson 1.4
            Puig 1.4 Kendrick .5
            Kershaw 5.6 Maeda 2.4 Jansen 2.5
            Blanton 1.7 Hatcher -.7 Urias 1.0

          2. dodgerrick,

            What would be the purpose of that examination? The idea is that process > outcome because of outside factors that impact outcome.

          3. Well, you have to evaluate what the front office has done and how their transactions have held up. Ned has taken a lot of heat (for good reason) over such winners as Jason Schmidt and Andruw Jones. Many who were critical of Ned seem to give a pass to the Braintrust. You have to look at the good and the bad.

            Kazmir was a last minute signing – the result of missing on some more expensive arms and needing to do something to fill in the rotation. As I posted below (but earlier) Kazmir has had one good year since his return to the bigs in 2013. It happened in his walk year in 2015. $16 MM/year for 3 years was probably an overpay any way you look at it given Kazmir’s track record, but: 1 – it was probably necessary given the gaps in the rotation (again, all of that depth!); 2 – what happened in 2016 was somewhat predictable given Kazmir’s history – not so much his injury (the subject of another post) but his mediocre performance.

            The Anderson/McCarthy signings were also questionable. You can defend Anderson at least on the grounds that it was just for one year (2 times), but McCarthy for 4 years given his track record – well, that was not destined to end well. You can look at his career (2 seasons in 11 with 170 or more innings, 2 seasons in 11 with 2.0 or more WAR) and can predict how this signing was going to work out.

            Badger talked of the cost of WAR at $7.7MM. How do the Dodgers stack up? Obviously, that kind of analysis will tell you that younger players are more valuable because they are cheaper. That doesn’t tell the whole story of course because you have to start accumulating WAR to win games, and have to have quality players everywhere (rotation, ‘pen, position players and bench) to win. It is just one way to evaluate the roster.

  5. Reddick at 13 a year maybe gonzos contract isn’t so bad and maybe something is going on with the bargaining agreement. The price on puig has just went up!

  6. Urias won’t be a #2 starter next year – he won’t pitch the innings. He also lacks the experience to pitch against the likes of Cueto, Strasburg, Arrieta or other post-season teams’ #2.

    He pitched 127 innings at all levels in 2016 – a 25% increase would be 159. They won’t push him too hard. I expect that there will be a couple of slots for the kids and I expect that it will be a combo of Stripling, Urias, JDL, Stewart and others who fill those slots.

    I repeat – McCarthy cannot be relied upon next year. In an 11 year major league career, he has pitched 170 innings once (2011) and 200 innings once (2014).

    Kazmir pitched 158 innings in 2013 (1.1 WAR) , 190 in 2014 (1.7 WAR) and 183 in 2015 (3.3 WAR). He pitched 136 innings to the tune of .2 WAR. In other words, you could pull almost anyone from the bone pile and get the same result as you would get from another season of Kazmir and he has faded down the stretch every year since his return from baseball purgatory in 2013. I expect that if the Dodgers keep him (no sure thing) they will get 170 innings of an ERA between 3.50 and 4.00 and he will fade in August. They can do better for $16MM/year for the next 2 years.

    If the Dodgers resign Turner and do nothing else, or keep nibbling at the corners, they will be worse than last year – no Jansen, no Blanton (I can’t believe I just wrote that), no Kendrick, no Ellis/Ruiz, no Utley, no Hill. They will not have solved last year’s 2 biggest problems (bad starting pitching with insufficient innings, bad hitting against lefties). I’m sorry – Darren Ruf is not the answer.

    I expect the Braintrust to make several trades and shake up the roster. On average, a major league roster changes 30% from year to year. (7 or 8 new players/year)They probably have enough guys to cobble together the outfield corners in house if they choose not to trade for a Braun or someone of his ilk. I do expect them to trade Puig. The most obvious place to upgrade is 2B and they can do that and add a good RH bat in the process.

    I also expect a Kazmir trade and an upgrade to the rotation – an actual #2 guy.

    I expect that we have seen the last of Jansen in Dodger Blue – the Braintrust will try some cut rate solution at closer since SABR guys don’t believe in paying a premium for relievers.

    Where I do agree is that we will see a steady infusion of kids -pitchers and position players. Calhoun, Bellinger, Verdugo and others – we will see what they can do. That is unless one or more are needed as a trade chip to pry a stud starter or 2B from another team.

    1. Rick

      Those are all great points!

      And like you, I think they need to move Kazmir, and McCarthy now, while the pitching market is this bad.

      1. Wondering

        Not yet, but those are cute ideas.

        You will be the first person I go to if I want to do that.

        That last one is especially cute!

          1. Betty Boop.
            Not so, got into the 30s last night, about 60 yesterday, a bit warmer today. At this point in life I think 80 is a nice temperature…

  7. The Houston signing of Reddick is ridiculous. But it seems that will establish the market. If so, let Turner go, but keep Jansen. We can find someone to hit .250 and drive in 60 runs in 500 at bats. That would be good enough to fill Turner’s spot if we can get some production out of 2B and LF. Of course, it would be nice if 66 was any good, too. Every off season for the last few I have said that 66 can fill a lot of other production voids. Ditto this year. Hope is eternal? Turner has too many injury issues to give him the kind of money he will probably want. I can see Segedin getting the first shot; maybe Farmer next. Farmer is groomed to catch, but played some 3B last year and was a shortstop at UofG. I think .250/60 is doable with about anyone who is able to play the position. I’m still puzzled about Kendrick leaving so soon in this process. He was a nice alternative. Oh well. I don’t think the suits will bite at any big contract if they feel a farm hand can do the job. It’s a nice time to be a farm hand with this team. Uriah a #2? That’s a stretch, but they might try it. I wouldn’t base the chances of the playoffs on that. To me, he hasn’t shown enough to merit a #2 spot. Maybe a #4/5. Maybe.

    1. Neither Reddick nor Kendrick are any great loss. Reddick just didn’t fit and in a full year, over 540 plate appearances, Howie hit .255 with a 90 OPS+. With those mediocre numbers he put up 0.5 WAR, way below what we needed out of a $10mm salary. We have to do better than that. I’m hoping Calhoun wins the job. I think he could step in and hit .255 – with more pop.

        1. I started to say, “and an attitude” but attitude is standard equipment with badgers, they come out of the womb mad at the world. Not saying that about our Badger ’cause I don’t know him that well.

          1. I had one, in the shirt SLOTim got for me. Frankly I prefer to not see myself on every post. I know what I look like, you don’t need to know. In general, I don’t feel the need for an avatar and if I could block them, there is one I certainly would.

  8. MJ, Thanks. I’m heading out to the game.

    We had the whole football team over last night for pizza and a bonfire. They are ready. Today is my birthday and I told them I only wanted one thing: A WIN!

    Here he is leading the team onto the field (the flag was his idea):
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    1. Happy birthday Mark! Today is also Dell’s (my best friend’s) birthday. And a certain oddity is her and I were once (at the least) in a relationship many years ago. These days she’s a great grandmother and her mother is still alive. I’m older than Dell. I’m not enemies with all my ex’s but there’s a couple of them that’s…………
      Oops! It’s my ADD! At ant rate Happy Birthday!

  9. Happy Birthday big guy.

    It’s a very proud thing seeing your Son doing so well.
    In my experience, watching your offspring excel at sport or anything for that matter, is so much more rewarding than when you’ve done it yourself, almost magnified in some way.

    Hope he makes you proud.

    Ps sorry about the Avatar

      1. It looks like he is always up to something, in a playful way.

        In the past some people have stated that thought as “Not having enough sense to keep his mouth shut…”

    1. Well, I’m a don’t trade any prospects guy, mostly because I don’t trust FAZ ….. I have to admit that trade would improve the staff for a couple of years. It also adds a lot to payroll, further empties our minor league system, and we get a bit older (28 & 32). What the heck. Do it.

      1. That link went to this:

        Chicago White Sox trade LHP Chris Sale and RHP David Robertson to the Los Angeles Dodgers for OF Yasiel Puig, RHP Jose De Leon, RHP Yadier Alvarez, and OF Alex Verdugo.

        That would give the Dodgers two lefty aces plus potentially another in lefty Urias. Sale is 27 and is not a free agent until 2020. His next three year cost is $12M, 12.5M, 15M.

        I would leave out Robertson but if has to be included I would make that a separate deal and swap McCarthy for Robertson straight up.

        I would also rather swap Calhoun for Verdugo as Verdugo would be needed to replace Puig as soon as 2018.

        I would not do that trade until Turner and Jansen are settled.

        1. Robertson is a closer. He makes a lot of money. McCarthy straight up for a closer won’t happen. McCarthy for anyone of value won’t happen.

          I don’t think much of significance will happen until Jansen and Turner sign.

          1. But can Robertson have the title of closer when he 31 and had a 2016 era of 3.47, a whip of 1.36, and 7 blown saves? I call that a middle reliever that is paid $12M in 2017 and $13M in 2017.

  10. Just read that Turner is looking for a contract, that is higher the Daniel Murphy.

    Which is three years, at 37.5 million.

    Vesseh said that on the radio.

    I know it sounds low, but maybe he isn’t thinking five years.

  11. Happy b-day Mark…Hope you got your W…
    Daylight Savings Time sucks for a lot of us seniors… I already miss riding my bike with the wifey after dinner…

  12. Badger…It could/will get worse…
    Bannon – Sessions – and I’m thinking Sheriff Joe Arpaio as head of Homeland Security!!?? Unemployed and well hold it, may be going to jail!??! …Donald can pardon him… That’s the ticket…
    P.S. Let it be Dozier and resign JT…

  13. The game started with a torrential downpour last night which lasted the whole game. It was 71 degrees at the start of the game and 47 when it was over. The only constant was the rain. They were ready for #6 (my son), holding him on nearly every play (a few were called):
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    He ran for about 45 yeards and had 13 tackles.
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    But when push came to shove with 1:00 to go in the game, on 4th down, he slid down the line to stand up the oponents 255 pound fullback and get the ball back on downs. When he did it, he pointed to me and smiled!

    We are going to the State Championship Game after beating last years state champs 14-13! NEXT FRIDAY at NOON!
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    Band of Brothers! I could not be more proud of my son… 3.6 GPA to boot!

    1. Somebody must have taught your Son a work ethic. You??

      It is very gratifying to watch some kids “push” themselves to accomplishment after accomplishment, especially up close! I have also been blessed to know. Congratulations!

      Thanks for sharing!!!

    2. Mark

      I was hoping that we hadn’t heard from you, because you guys were out celebrating.

      It sounds like a tough game, but your son shows that size doesn’t make a difference when someone smaller, has a bigger will to win!

      Congratulations!

      What a birthday to remember!

  14. Just got the official notice to join LA Dodger Talk. I hope we are all going back. I hate change. I hope the next version of Talk will be the last. Is the Report continuing?

      1. I tried to join twice and was told I would get a confirming E-Mail. I never did. I understand I was thrown off once under Gilly#14 but geeze that was years ago. Oh well.

  15. Interesting 40 man roster additions. DeJong had some good comments. I think he might be ready. I thought Culberson was older than 28. At that age, maybe 2B is his for the taking. Or 3B. DeJong was a Blue Jay signing, and the Blue Jays know how to scout talent.

  16. I am thinking Kazmir will be hard to trade, because he seems to be an over pay to me.

    McCarthy also has his problems too.

    But we are going to have to take someone that isn’t the best also, because these two pitchers don’t have that much value, but it would be worth it, just to get rid of them this year.

    It seemed like the Brewers were willing to take McCarthy.

    I don’t think the Yankees would take McCarthy now, unless they have an injury to one of there pitchers.

    Because the Yankees let our former pitching prospect go yesterday, so they don’t seem to be worried about arms.

    We might have to wait on Kazmir, until some team has a pitcher get injured.

    On that show MLB Now, they said that that Reddick was an over pay, and on another MLB show, they had to make a correction on stats they gave about Reddick.

    Because they gave Reddick better stats, than Reddick actually had, at the Astro’s stadium.

    Reddick is only hitting 199 there, and that isn’t good, because we know that Reddick is mostly a singles hitter right now.

    Daniel Murphy sure didn’t get a very good contract, because they didn’t know if Murphy would hit like he did, in the post season.

    Because Reddick is getting more then Murphy, and we know that is a over pay.

    I guess Turner is using Murphy’s contract, as a measure, to see what he should get in years, because they are close in age.

    So maybe Mark is off with five years, when it comes to Turner.

    I think Turner will get a four year contract, at the most, not five years.

    But maybe they can sign Turner to a three year contract, by over paying him per year.

    They could give Turner a three year contract, at 70, or 75 million, to eliminate that fourth year.

    Turner deserves a raise, and he is the type of player, that is worth paying, because he has performed well, since he came to the team.

    I don’t see his hitting really declining in the next few years.

    I actually think he will be an even better hitter in the next two years, at least.

    I can see him hitting well, for longer then that too.

    Turner is really going to be a good price, with what he brings to a line up, because of his age and injury history, working against him.

    And it looks like his knee surgery was a success, because I didn’t see him favoring his knee at all last year.

    Mark actually thought Turner looked faster last year.

    It isn’t like he has an injury history, like McCarthy, and Anderson.

    And I bet only two years down the line, Turner’s contract will look like a bargain, considering how the prices go up in baseball, every year.

  17. Taking a break for the Thanksgiving holidays. Be back when the meetings start prior to flying to Cali for the Christmas season!

      1. I’m sure there’s a relationship between the two.
        I could have labeled that: ” FAZ waiting for call from Turner’s agent.”

        1. Wondering

          I am not good at that.

          I really don’t want Frazier, if we can sign Turner.

          It doesn’t sound like Turner is going to get the moon, like we think.

          They also had an article in Dodger Blue, where Roberts, is talking about what Turner brings to the team, beyond his good stats.

          I wonder how long Kershaw and Sale,
          will be pitching like this?

          Someone kind of questioned the timing, of these two, from when the Dodgers will have all of there young players, ready for the majors.

          But I guess the Cubs signed Lester early, and that worked out.

          Maybe Sale would take the pressure off Kershaw in the post season, and help Kershaw pitch better, at that time.

          But we are gonna need a closer too, or we will be squirming everytime we only have a one run lead, in the ninth.

          Maybe we can take on Roberson’s money, and him, and ship Hatcher to the White Sox, in a bigger trade, like Sale will be.

          1. I wouldn’t take it for granted that all of our young players will ever be ready for MLB. History says some of them, at most. Tommy was wrong, God isn’t a Dodger fan…

  18. Actually Alvarez is listed at #91. But considering his age and limited experience, we can probably expect that he will move up the rankings. I remember when Seager was in the 40’s and finally worked his way up to #1 last year.

    The Dodgers farm system is very young. A lot of our current prospects came out of that large international signing haul that the Dodgers pulled off in 2015. Most of those players are probably still teenagers. It’s going to take some time to see how they develop.

    I have never seen Willie Calhoun play, so any thoughts I have about him are based only on what I read. And based on what I read, and on how he’s built, it appears to me that Willie Calhoun will likely always be a defensive liability. Again, without much to really go on, it seems to me that he might be most valuable as trade bait, especially to an AL team where he could DH. And although things could change over time, another lefthanded hitter is probably not what the Dodgers need right now.

    Again, I haven’t seen him, but Bellinger appears to me to be a keeper, especially with Gonzalez entering his mid-30’s.

    I definitely want Jansen back. However, I wonder if the Dodgers would consider letting him go to get the draft pick, and then sign one or both of Chapman and Melancon, neither of which carries draft pick compensation.

    Would the Dodgers consider signing Cespedes? Is surrendering a draft pick any worse than trading away current talent already in the organization in a deal to get a righthanded hitting outfielder with power?

    The Dodgers are restricted again during next years international signing period that begins on July 2nd. They can’t sign a player for more than $300,000. However, unless there’s a change in the CBA, the Dodgers will be free to spend wildly during the international signing period that begins on July 2, 2017. The Dodgers may be averse to surrendering draft picks, but they may be willing to do so if they plan on stocking up on young international players going forward.

    I’d like to see the Dodgers sign Turner, but doubt if they would go into the 4-5 years $100 million territory to do it, especially since Turner struggles a bit against lefthanded pitching. I think it will depend on whether or not they can pull off a deal for an established 3rd baseman (e.g., Longoria or his ilk). Actually, in the long run, I see Corey Seager moving over to 3B, since I still believe he lacks the range of elite shortstops. He’s still OK at short, but I doubt if that’s where he stays long term. In fact, although he’s an adequate defensive shortstop, I believe he has the quickness and arm to develop into an exceptional 3rd baseman.

    1. Brooklyn

      I don’t think it is a good idea to judge a players potential on the way they are built, or how tall they are.

      I just feel if your going eliminate someone on there size, you might eliminate a really good player.

      I know Calhoun is stocky, but there are some really good players that are stocky, but they are also really athletic.

      1. I think when people talk about how he’s built it is just understanding why he may lack the range to play 2B and why he doesn’t project long-term at the position. He seems to lack the speed to play OF and the arm to play 3B or RF. None of us have watched him enough to know for sure. His offensive numbers and the question about his defense tells me he is really a candidate for opening day at 2B for the Dodgers. He is ticketed for AAA or another franchise.

        1. Hawkeye

          If he makes the rountine plays, and is a plus hitter, his defense might not matter, as much as some think.

          And with all of these defensive shifts, it makes it much easier for players, to make these defensive plays, in baseball now.

          Size can be deceptive, because I have seen bigger built players, cover more ground then some, would think.

          And I just don’t think we should judge on size.

          I know Altuve and Betts, are not built like Calhoun, but some teams would have not drafted these two players very high, even with there speed.

          I don’t know what kind of defense that he plays, and I don’t think he is tabbed for 2017, but it sure sounds like he can hit.

          1. I dont think he’s being judged how he’s built. I think he’s being judged how he moves and throws. If he hits like Daniel Murphy then you sure can live with him being avg on defense.

  19. I think Mark meant Urias.

    I thought De Leon would have moved up. He was #21 when I suggested he be packaged for Hamels. That would have made him much higher than any used by Texas in the deal. I wonder why he has fallen?

    I don’t know about Calhoun either. But he’s our second base prospect and we need a second baseman.

    The restriction on international signings is on the list of why I’ve been saying 2018 will be the year FAZ can start running with their own plan. Hopefully when freed up they will be better at signing FA’s and trading for something other than crap or rentals. I still want to see a Dodgers team that is filled with everydaystars, not lineups that change everyday by matching up platoon players. I see Seager at short for a few more years but I still want to see the fleet footed electric gloved middle infielder. I’m sure the pitching staff would agree.

    We wait.

  20. Quick Hits: White Sox, Dodgers, Twins, Yankees, Orioles
    By Connor Byrne | November 19, 2016 at 10:07pm CDT

    The White Sox are willing to listen to offers for just about all of their players, and industry sources regard them and the Dodgers as perfect trading partners, according to Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan (Twitter links). Ace Chris Sale, third baseman Todd Frazier and closer David Robertson are among the players Chicago could move, and all of them fit the Dodgers’ needs, notes Passan. Meanwhile, the White Sox like several Dodgers – outfielder Yasiel Puig and prospects Cody Bellinger, Alex Verdugo, Jose DeLeon and Willie Calhoun – so it seems the two sides could line up for some sort of deal this offseason.

  21. A lot of people here seem to like Calhoun’s hitting potential but question his fielding anywhere in the infield or outfield. I wonder if they ever considered turning him into a catcher?

  22. By Connor Byrne | November 19, 2016 at 10:07pm CDT

    The White Sox are willing to listen to offers for just about all of their players, and industry sources regard them and the Dodgers as perfect trading partners, according to Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan (Twitter links). Ace Chris Sale, third baseman Todd Frazier and closer David Robertson are among the players Chicago could move, and all of them fit the Dodgers’ needs, notes Passan. Meanwhile, the White Sox like several Dodgers – outfielder Yasiel Puig and prospects Cody Bellinger, Alex Verdugo, Jose DeLeon and Willie Calhoun – so it seems the two sides could line up for some sort of deal this offseason.

    Given that 70% of pitchers pitch from the right side I suppose we could loosely say that 30% of the games the Dodgers would benefit from a stronger righty lineup. I like an outfield of Toles, Pederson, and Puig so that extra righty bat needs to come from second or third base.

    I think Turner will return so that extra righty bat has to come from second.

    I would definitely include De Leon, Verdugo, Calhoun to get Sale but I am only okay with including Puig because I am tired of all the drama around Puig. Will he be great? Will he prepare? Will he stretch? Will he show up early? Will other teammates hang out with him? His best friend seems to be De Leon and he would be included in the trade for Sale.

        1. Bum

          I agree with you, and what about Bellinger?

          If you believe in Bellinger, why Abreu?

          Bellinger is really good defensively at first, and isn’t he suppose to be that big bat, that Abreu is?

          I don’t think Abreu is a good defensive first baseman.

          I also noticed his HR totals, has went down every year, since he joined the league.

          But it isn’t a bad idea, if we didn’t have Bellinger coming up.

          And we do need that big right hand bat, but like Bum said, it would be smarter to get a second base man, that can help against lefties, since we have no one to fill in at second base, right now.

    1. Bum

      Time is running out with Puig, he only has two more years left with the team.

      So everyone better hope he gets it fast.

      The thing I don’t agree with Badger about Puig, is that Puig needs someone that can get to Puig, and make a difference.

      I feel if Roberts couldn’t do it, Puig is the problem.

      Roberts gave Puig a clean slate, and Puig still didn’t do the things he needs to do.

      Puig has to make the extra effort to be a better player, and do it consistently.

      Until Puig is really serious about making the effort, no one is going to get to Puig.

      I want Puig to do well, but I don’t know if he ever will, with the Dodgers.

      When Puig first came up from AAA, he was throwing to the right base, and not running in front of anyone.

      But after a few weeks, he once again, went right in front of Joc, and caught a the ball.

      And it was just a routine fly ball, that Joc was already under, waiting to catch the ball.

      If Puig doesn’t hit, or can’t make a good throw, he does this other stuff, to bring attention to himself.

    2. Bum

      I agree that we should find a player for second, that hits with some power, and is an all around good hitter, who also hits lefties well.

      Like I said before, it is like killing two birds with one stone.

      This is probably the position we should trade for, since the free agent market, isn’t that good this year.

  23. I also like a line up that plays every day. I am tired of these mix and match line ups. We need 8 starters and roles players . I do believe guys like Pederson and Toles can play every day, if given a chance. We do need a good right handed bat in our line up. If not Puig, then he needs to be traded for one. I am one who believes players play better when they know their define rolls.

  24. Tampa was a low dollar club, Friedman never had the money to hire good players, so he did the best he could with bit players, mix and match lineups etc. He had fair success at it and began to think that was the only way to do it. The trouble is that now he has responsibilities for the Dodgers and he has more money to work with. Much more. But now too expectations are higher, contending for the playoffs now and then are not enough, heck, making the playoffs every year is not enough, the fans want World Series, for God’s sake… He needs to spend some of the owner’s money and prospects now to get a winner. The owners win, the fans win, he wins. Then he will have time to work on his grand plan…

    1. Wondering: “He needs to spend some of the owner’s money and prospects now to get a winner”.

      Am I mistaken or did the Dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball the last two years? I thought I heard they did.

      1. Boxout

        That payroll is deceiving, because there is a lot of dead money, being paid to players, not on this team.

        And we have a couple of pitchers on this team, that don’t contribute much at all, McCarthy and Kazmir.

      2. And haven’t you always blamed that high payroll on the previous GM, Ned Colletti? You can’t have it both ways. That’s dead money (unless he can trade it off). We can’t win last year, we need to work on next year. Spend money on it.

        1. Wondering

          I don’t see them getting under the luxary tax, until 2019.

          As long as they make good deals, and keep that in mind, it will be ok, and we know they will do this.

      3. Dead money??? Now money has a life of it’s own??

        Have either of you ever heard of the word: BUDGET?

        Some on this board have been saying it for years, but it just doesn’t get through to you guys!! There is only so much money, even for billionaires.

        Try this one, look in the mirror, ask yourself, If I waste a bunch of my money on drugs (dope-fiend moves) will my standard of living drop in the future? What if you used most of your money on a “1957 Chevy Bel Air two door hardtop”, an oldie but a goodie, even though you already had some other cars. Would that effect your future spending? By the way, the 57 Chevy was wrecked just before you bought it, so you can’t resale it for what you paid. There is your answer!!

        Wondering: “We can’t win last year, we need to work on next year. Spend money on it”.

        What is our payroll going down to Tampa Bay levels??? C’mon, get real, Dodgers will once again have the highest payroll in MLB in 2017!!!! I know, what is another $100M among billionaires!!

        I will say it again, We should all be very happy if, FAZ signs Turner, beefs up bullpen (including a dominant closer), signs Hill (at reasonable cost), get some right-handed hitting platoon mashers and do “something” about 2nd.

        What does everyone think of this potential deal?

        http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/cincinnati-reds-rumors-los-angeles-dodgers-are-coming-for-brandon-phillips-111916

  25. Cody Bellinger is untouchable in my opinion – he’s of the same ilk as Corey. We just need a basher between them.

    I would trade Jose De Leon, Willie Calhoun (he might be below average at 2B… at best and he has no speed) who is suited to DH, Alex Verdugo, Chase De Jong, Gavin Lux and Brock Stewart and Edwin Rios for Chris Sale and Jose Abreu and Todd Frazier (one year-rental). If they want Puig I would throw him in too, but I don’t think they want him. Let Frazier walk and get a pick next year.

    That means we don’t re-sign Turner or if we do, he goes to 2B for a year. We have to move Gonzo which would cost $20 million.

    How about this lineup:

    1. Toles LF
    2. Seager SS
    3. Turner 2B
    4. Abreu 1B
    5. Frazier 3B
    6. Grandal C
    7. Thompson/Bellinger RF
    8. Pederson CF

    Rotation:
    1. Kershaw
    2. Sale
    3. Urias
    4. Maeda
    5. McCarthy, Ryu, Kaz, De Jong, Buehler

      1. I don’t watch any of the other teams, especially American League teams. so I can’t answer that. What difference does it make? For the Dodgers, he will play first base except for possibly the Interleague games we’ll have…

    1. I think what eveyone is forgetting about Abreu, is that he has a very reasonble contract.

      But I guess most of the White Sox do have reasonble contracts, now that I think about it.

      Robertson did get a good contract, but I am not sure how pricey it is, but we could take his contract, and maybe he could be our set up guy.

      He didn’t do as well as he did for the Yankees, but he might do better in the National League.

    2. I don’t really want to drain our farm to acquire Abreu or Frazier. Turner has turned into a top notch 3Rd baseman no need to move him. The team needs to add speed.

      I agree that Bellinger is untouchable. I was listening to a bit of the AFL championship on the radio and the announcer had Bellinger as the 2nd best player in the Fall league.

      I would work a deal for Sale and Robertson and use aRobertson as a setup guy. Pay JT and Jansen

  26. I don’t think this team needs to trade away the store for anyone. Especially pitchers. Young–and healthy–arms are where the future is. I can see the entire rotation turning over to youth, except for Kershaw. The old, injured guys will have to fight for jobs this spring, with the best man winning. I can see 3 veterans and 2+yoots starting the season. I like Sale, but he is used goods, and when will that elbow pop? He does not merit giving up more than a couple top 10 guys. Abreu is solid, but we have AGon for a while still. Abreu for AGon would be an improvement except in the clubhouse. Don’t discount AGon’s clubhouse presence. I would like to see our top 5 young pitchers compete in the spring for those 2+ spots in the rotation. The bullpen is another matter. We can expect the near future to be 5+2+1+1 or 6+1+1+1. The 2 inning relief pitcher is the premium pitching position in baseball right now. The Dodgers’ 2d round pick from Santa Clara pitched last summer almost exclusively 2 innings, and pitched well. Don’t be surprised if he makes the team next year.

        1. Thank you Wondering. But after reading many of you and Badger’s posts, I wouldn’t want to deprive either of you, your feed bag!!

          Bon Appetit!

  27. Willie Calhoun a DH? Laughable. Read up on the DH, like the average age of one. Calhoun, 22, is an athlete that never really had to work on a defensive position. I figure he’s a left fielder, but, whatever, assign him a spot and work him at it. He can rake, and every team out there is looking for hitters. Speed? He’s got a slugging % close to .500 and is fast enough to hit the ball and run to second. He’s a player. Use him now, in trade or in the lineup.

    1. The President of OPS and half-dozen GMs of Dodgers, which I hear are highly overrated, should immediately apologize to Dodger fans for their terrible high-risk, oft injured pitching signings. See what I did there?

  28. https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/800405462264909825

    Boxup, there are literally hundreds of trade possibilities like the above. If I should happen to mention one, it doesn’t necessarily mean I think that is the best trade possible. I am just anxious for something to happen. I have seen too many (what should be) good trades go bad to invest 100% of my faith in any of them. That is why I’ve said many times here that I’m glad that FAZ has to make that decision, not me.
    When he makes a signing or trade, I’ll speculate whether it is good or bad (How I feel) about the player). In time we will all have a more substantial opinion about the deal. Some of my quick judgements have been good, some bad. When I think I made a bad judgement, I will admit it. Here is a judgement I have been two years arriving at: FAZ seems to be a poor judge of player’s ability. If GMs had batting averages, his would be about half of Grandal’s. His next ten might be good; if so I will certainly give him credit for them.

    1. How many of the several hundred FAZ manuevers have you looked at and said “great move”? How many have you said “wtf?”

      They took over a multiple West Champion team that was one player away for two straight years and whittled away at it for 24 months now. Payroll is going down, and after bouncing up and down in “best system” rankings, at last look we’ve dropped to 8th, with 4 Tier 1 players still with us. We’re now talking about trading all 4 of them.

      I don’t know what to think at this point. I don’t believe we will further deplete the system with a Chicago trade. I don’t believe we will sign both our free agents. I do believe we will continue to attempt to resuscitate wins from the infirmed and the waived. This is who we are now. Obviously we still have a decent team, but I still have the under on 91.

      1. I would be okay with signing Turner and trading Jansen for a QO draft pick.

        Closer candidates: Stripling, Dayton, Rhame, Tolleson (signed as a free agent).

        1. You have a lot more confidence in those guys than I do, but maybe we can start a new trend – Team Saves. The Blue Curtain – It drops in the 6th inning. I’ll work on that promo. Right now I’m watching Seattle football. Rams not on here of course.

      2. Until we know who’s on the roster there’s no way to predict wins.

        Predicting who will be on the roster is a more interesting exercise.

        As a fan, I’m hoping for a plus at 2B, resigning Turner and Jansen, trading for a legit #2 starter, a big bopper (righty) to play an OF corner, grabbing a set-up man.

        As an oberserver, I doubt that all of that will happen and fearful that none of it will.

        1. As an observer, fearful of none of that happening, would it not be easy to see this team winning less than 91 games next year? Saying “less than” is simply stating an opinion on the current team. We went from 94 wins, to 92 wins, to 91 wins. Without Jansen and Turner I see that trend continuing, depending of course on moves made.

          There’s no way to accurately predict anything, including who will be the roster. But I predict we will do it anyway.

  29. Everyone how about Quentano and Robertson?

    Quentano won’t cost as much as Sale, and maybe the Sox will take Baez, and Hatcher, for Robertson, and pay a little for Robertson.

    I know Hatcher might not be enough, but maybe they would take a chance on him, because of his stuff.

    We could use Robertson as our set up guy.

    I know Quentano would be cheaper then Sale, but what will it take to get Quentano?

          1. Wondering

            That is for sure.

            I remember when he couldn’t even hit a fair ball, when we had to use him, in an extra inning game against the Nats.

            But the Royals main catcher plays a lot, and much more then even Grandal plays.

  30. Speculation is that the 25 man roster will increase to 26 men, and September limit will be 28 or 29. I don’t think that’s enough of an increase to be meaningful. I favor 28 players for most of the season, increasing to 30 in September.

      1. That is the problem.

        They think if they add those extra men to the roster, teams will have more relievers, and that will slow the game down, even more.

        They say kids don’t like to watch baseball, because it is so slow, compared to other sports.

        But as much as kids are on there phones now, I don’t think it is the problem like the people in charge of baseball think.

  31. Maybe the Dodgers just need to shake it up a bit (not blow it up) — just several key changes.

    The White Sox deal of some sort might be it. Sale in the rotation might be an edge to keep Clayton a Dodger longer. And help the rotation from breaking down in the post season.

    Dodgers need a new fire power bat in the lineup. So a kid has to be traded. OK, June 2017 draft will come around and we will sign another.

    The Dodgers have been close for four years and no cigar.

  32. You know, I float out a lot of trade ideas to stimulate discussion. However, maybe we don’t need much. Maybe we just stay the course. FAZ attempted to get to the next level last year and it failed – all we have to show is three less prospects. Maybe we stand pat!

    Payroll is going to go down. That is a given! If I had to bet, I’d say we do not sign Turner or Jansen.

    The sky will not fall. Someone suggested we move Puig to 3B. He has the arm…

    Maybe Kyle Farmer is Bill Mueller. Maybe he can play 3B?

    Trayce Thompson? 30 HR?

    Micah Johnson – Can he harness his potential?

    Barnes and Hernandez? Time to put up.

    Can Joc become a slugger?

    Can Yasmani get even better next year?

    Is Bellinger ready?

    What about all the young pitchers?

    Maybe we should just ride with what we got!

    … and keep gettin’!

    1. Trade nobody for nobody?

      Great idea.

      Where have we heard that before?

      We traded for both Hernandez and Johnson. Why, if not to play them? I think we need to improve the starting pitching, but perhaps that could be done midseason. Let’s see what we have here and play to the deadline with an open mind.

    2. Mark, come on. Somebody suggested Puig for third? That would have to be either you or me that would suggest such a thing.

      Puig not only has the arm, he has a very accurate arm. He is agile. He could dive for a grounder and bounce up and throw quickly and smoothly. He begs Roberts to let him take infield practice at third. He could charge a bunt and throw off balance.

      The argument I always get about Puig at third is he is too fast to waste at third. But an outfield of Toles, Pederson, Thompson, and Verdugo has plenty of speed and with Puig at third the Dodgers would add speed at a position that is usually only faster than the guy at catcher and first.

      Puig at third and Bellinger at first and the Dodgers would compensate for the lack of speed at second and short.

        1. 1. Puig would be closer to the dugout so there’s that.
          2. Puig wouldn’t have a running start when he bumped into Seager as he does now with Joc.
          3. Puig would make the Dodgers more entertaining if he were in the infield.
          4. Its out-of-the-box thinking which as you know, I prefer during the off-season.
          5. Who else plays third if Turner leaves that won’t cost some of Badger’s 2018 team?
          6. Dodgers have replacements for the outfield but not for third.

          1. That’s good. Especially like #1. Am thinking that they could easily remove him from the game during an inning and not too many folks would notice.

      1. Puig with a position change sounds risky to me. He could be the best defensive right fielder in the league, why mess with that. All he needs is a cranial/rectalectomy, some subsequent therapy, and some coaching up and he’s a perennial All Star.

        What this organization needs is an Ozzie Smith shortstop and the Roman Candle can be lit. Kershaw, Urias, De Leon, Maeda, Brock-Jin McStewru, Stripwood and the Blue Curtain and turn on the jets to the trade deadline – then do nothing because this party starts in 2018.

    3. Mark

      Why would anyone put Puig at third, with the speed he has.

      That would not be using one of Puig’s best assets.

      Not to mention, he is one of the best defensive right fielders in baseball.

      He has enough trouble hitting, to worry about playing a new position.

      1. Puig makes enough questionable decisions in the outfield.

        And the infield moves a lot quicker, and has more action.

        It isn’t going to happen.

        Mark you waffle about things, sometimes.

        First you make this pretty good suggestion, and line up, and then you are the complete opposite.

        They are not going to turn around now, and not try to win, this next year.

        It is funny the payroll finally came down last year, but the ticket prices, and everything else, has went up the last three years.

        And like few here like to remind everyone, a lot of these prospects, just won’t make it in the majors, so you can’t go all in, or you will lose, because the odds are very small.

        And your assessments about talent, better be good.

      2. Why would anyone put anybody in the infield if they have speed? Is that what makes Seager such a good shortstop–lack of speed? Is that what makes Utley a good second baseman–lack of speed?

        MJ’s Rule: If a player has speed he has to play the outfield.

  33. MLB Network’s Jon Morosi reports that the Dodgers have interest in Logan Forsyth.

    Imagine that – FAZ wants another Tampa player!!

  34. How is it that Atlanta can trade Shelby Miller to AZ and get shortstop prospect Dansby Swanson, the No. 1 overall pick in last year’s draft and outfielder Ender Inciarte and the Dodgers can’t get anything like that for De Leon?

      1. They won that one, that’s for sure.

        I know I said this last year, and ate some crow as Pollock and Miller went down, but the Dbacks have something going on here. They got a baseball guru running the show now and when healthy have an over .500 team. The giants will get what they need, count on it, and the West will be competitive. 5 in a row will not be easy.

        1. AZ looked like they would be better last year. They missed Inciarte and Pollock plus Miller tanked and Greinke was much less than anyone could have guessed.

          The expectations for FAZ seemed to be that they would find the nuggets and it was assumed they would know the difference between gold and pyrite.

          Why were they not smart enough to think Anderson would accept a QO?
          Why didn’t they sign Hill for a one year $6M deal like Oakland did instead of trading key prospects to get him for a hand full of games?
          Why didn’t they make an offer to Scherzer that he couldn’t refuse?

    1. Because JDL isn’t a proven starter, in the majors, like Miller was.

      Miller had been a starting pitcher in the majors , for at least three years, and he pitched pretty well, up until last year.

      I don’t know what the Dbacks do with pitchers, but Miller pitched really well, the year before, he was traded.

      JDL has only pitched in three major league games, and he didn’t pitch well, in all three games.

      You are just valuing prospects to much, because your heart badly wants that young line up right now, but it takes time.

      And not all of these prospects, will make it, and some might make it, on another team.

      The As are going to have Cotton in there starting pitching rotation next year, I read.

      And on the Dodgers, he wasn’t even close to that.

      1. You missed the point MJ in your haste to say I value prospects too much. Tit for tat would be for me to say you value declining players too much.

        Doesn’t it seem like FAZ could get a young second baseman that hasn’t yet become famous for someone like De Leon or a combination of De Leon and Calhoun? San Diego traded rizzo and turner before they were Rizzo and Turner.

  35. If Friedman is trying to get another player, from the Rays, he doesn’t have a clue about people.

    They are still not over him leaving, as well as Maddon, taking off.

    The fact that the Giants picked up Moore, and Friedman didn’t get a thing from the Rays, says a lot.

    I read an article that also made a statement like this, about the Rays not being chummy with Friedman.

    But the Rays won’t voice this publically.

    1. It’s business. If the Rays think they gain advantage, they will. I’m sure they’ve seen some of the moves Friedman has made and may be thinking LA has made him soft in the head. Something could happen with them, like Hernandez and Johnson, and of course Urias and Seager, for Forsythe and Archer.

      1. Badger

        Exactly the Rays will make a deal if they think they have the advantage, but they are not going out of there way, to deal with Friedman.

          1. Bum

            That is true, but Friedman is not just any GM or president for the Rays!

            And GMs, and front office personal, are people too.

            The Rays feel even worse about Maddon.

            And remember Friedman leaving the Rays, kicked in, Maddon’s opt out.

            And the Rays were considering filing enproachment against the Cubs, for stealing Maddaon.

  36. It’s not easy to wean a baby from the nipple. Zaidi/A’s, Friedman/Rays. For some reason they think everyone else is trying to rip them off………what was that trade again….Hill & Reddick (for 3 months) in exchange for Holmes, Montas & Cotton.
    Have they not learned their lesson yet? But then again, a baby loves that nipple.

    When will Anthopoulos be taking over?

  37. What Churchill would have said about FAZ:
    “I had hoped that we were hurling a wildcat onto the shore, but all we got was a stranded whale.”

  38. Hey, Michael, this should be of interest to you. About 40 years or so ago when I was living in Orange County, one Sunday my dad wanted to get a sturdy box (no offense, Box) to ship some oranges to my sister. He went to a nearby small shopping mall and looked behind the stores. He found a good one behind a small tailor shop. When he opened at home he found a claymore mine (complete), a live mortar shell, and several less lethal military items. He called the local PD, who inspected it and called in an EOD team from Seal Beach Weapons Station and they naturally took it away. I suppose the police investigated the place he found it but I never hear any more about it. The tailor shop was owned by someone with an Arab name…

      1. I found out about this later in the day. You would think the box would have been heavy enough that he would look in it before taking it home. I don’t know if he did or not.

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