In the second Cactus League game of the spring, the Dodgers took on the Milwaukee Brewers at Maryvale Park.
Andre Ethier led off the game with a sharp single to the opposite field. Unfortunately, he was quickly thrown out trying to steal second. The Dodgers came out of the box aggressively today, as Justin Turner was also thrown out trying to steal in the first.
Rich Hill took the mound and had a good first inning (1,2,3 on 12 pitches), despite being squeezed on the outside corner by the home plate umpire.
Hill’s second inning proved productive, with two K’s and a short fly ball to centerfield. His curveball was snapping off beautifully, keeping the Brewers’ batters off-balance. He finished his day with 21 pitches.
Justin Turner, Chase Utley and the Arizona sun combined for four Dodgers runs in the 3rd.
Chris Hatcher took over for Hill in the bottom of the third. Hatcher promptly hit his first batter with his first pitch, and followed that by giving up a two-run home run. Yikes! Dodgers were up 4-2
With bases-loaded in the fourth, Chase Utley showed off his wheels by beating out an infield single that sputtered out just past the mound on the third base side. Scott Van Zeppelin showed off the bat with a big double, and the Dodgers took a 7-2 lead.
New Dodger, ex-Padre, Brandon Morrow took over in the fourth and quickly found himself in trouble. He gave up four hits and three runs. Dodgers 7-5
Kiké Enrique Hernandez misplayed a ball over his head in CF, allowing a run to score. Sun or not – that was not how to stay on the team when you’re sitting on the bubble.
Ross Stripling took over for the Dodgers in the fifth. Trevor Oaks in the sixth. Between them the lead shifted to Brewers 8-7.
Top of the 7th: Rob Segedin blasted a high, hard one over the Big Blue Wall in CF to tie the game at 8-8.
Trevor Oaks got an extra inning and held the Brewers scoreless.
After several lengthy middle of the game innings, the HP ump must have been tired. He gifted Trevor Oaks an outside strike 3 to end the 7th. The ump squeezed Rich Hill on much closer pitches in the first.
Cody Bellinger and Alex Verdugo mashed two Dodgers dingers in the 8th to boost the lead for the Boys in Blue to 10 -8
In the bottom of the ninth, Alex Verdugo made a running, over the shoulder catch in CF that probably made the banana boy fade away just a little bit.
The Dodgers won 10-8, and Trevor Oaks picked up the win.
Ethier leadoff report: Single to lead off the game, weak fly with bases loaded, and a walk. Last year was Ethier’s best shot at batting leadoff. He’s now one year older and slower. I have my doubts that he can hold up and lead off in 2017.
Oscar Martinez
I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully was the golden voice of summer all my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodgers manager ever. My favorite things are coffee, beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.
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I just love ST. I especially love to see the kids play.
Getting on Base > Speed when it comes to batting leadoff.
Stealing is not a priority with this front office. Not making outs is.
Bluto
Can’t they possible have both?
I heard the Cubs are thinking about having Schwarber, to be there lead off hitter.
And I I hear that people don’t want someone clogging up the bases, and that is usually about Agone.
But I believe that Schwarber might not be much faster, then Agone.
And Ethier might have lost his wheels, somewhat.
I don’t feel strongly about this, but it is worth the thought.
MJ,
I’m saying that we should NOT disqualify Ethier from the leadoff spot. Because all that matters is that he can get on base.
Bluto
Got ya!
Bellinger hit that ball, out of the park literally!
Dump Hatcher and sign Blanton ASAP.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/calltothepen.com/2017/02/26/los-angeles-dodgers-time-bring-back-joe-blanton/amp/
Yep Ray – can’t disagree with that.
Blanton, I would do this crazy 3 year deal. First year, $ 3 million with another $1.25 million in incentives (this gets him over the $4 million threshold). Second year team option at $4 million flat. Third year at $3 million, player option.
Thid has major lux tax implications, but Hatcher sucks and Blanton is really a much better bridge to our next generation of young bullpen arms than the likes of Hatcher and Baez. And neither Ravin nor Wood did well today.
In other news, Logan Forsythe needed a lubricating injection in his freaking knee. Now I know the FO has to have known about this because he was a Friedman draftee, but losing JDL on an average major leaguer who needs annual maintenance injections just seems like an entry in one of those “top ten bad trades lists” in waiting.
If we don’t make it into the WS during FAZ’s tenure, their legacy will have been to trade away a huge chunk of Logan White picks for no value added to a team that was already a playoff team when they arrived. There I’ve said it, and I’m not wrong.
You’re not the only one thinking that Yueh. Have you read Dodger Therapy?
We’ve mentioned Ethier and his .350 OBP for lead off before. He’s a pro, and certainly not slow. I don’t care he won’t steal bases, I care our lead off guy gets on base. That said, it will probably be Forsythe and a .333 OBP.
Dodger owners, unless they are really stupid, have to be wondering if they hired the right guy. Where is that baseball genius Stan Kasten while all these mistakes are being made? I think if they fall short again this season, there is a chance FAZ gets canned. Next year for sure. These guys could play the big fish in the very small ponds they came from but they don’t know how in the big pond they’re in now.
What a new and interesting take.
I look forward to the discourse in response….
Fei
Blanton is not worth 4 million. He is worth 2 million. That is why nobody has signed him. If you want to give him 2 million and 1 million in incentives, I would sign him.
Add a vesting option for the same deal next year to sweeten the pot for him.
A players value is what a team is willing to give him. If Blanton has been seeking a 2 year deal or a 1 year/$4M than it is apparent that others do not value him as that.
From Joe Blanton’s perspective…..he was ‘good’ enough to sign for 1 year $4M last year and pitched well so one can understand why he would feel/think that he would be worth at least $4M per.
Unfortunately for Blanton, he might have been overpaid last year (as we all know FAZ overpays for the cheap, older and infirm FA’s) and with the Dodgers loaded in the bullpen, FAZ isn’t willing to pay (overpay) for Blanton again.
My guess is that he will end up signing on with someone after injuries have developed during ST for $2M.
Fei
Which Logan White’s picks that have been traded are doing very well in the majors right now? Dee Gordon is one. Who else? On some of the other trades we got fair value back. Kemp trade is one. Help me out.
A 30 second Google search produced this al:
http://dodgersdigest.com/2014/10/27/dodgers-logan-white-padres-farm-system/
It’s a good read. The draft is indeed a crap shoot, and I’m not exactly a Logan White fan, but the farm system flourished under his direction. Russell Martin, James Loney, Kershaw, Kemp, Puig, Ryu, Kuroda, Seager, Pederson…. it’s a long list. It remains to be seen what the FAZ picks will do. Their trades have been rather meh, but that opinion of course depends on which side you’ve chosen. Kind of like the other big decision made recently. Once your mind is made up……….
Here we go again, bashing FAZ. We won the West the last three years. If nothing else, look at our farm system. Look at all the bad contracts they inherited. I know they made some bad signings. Just look at the farm. ROY last year with Seager. Urias this year. Bellinger and Verdigo looking good. More good starting pitchers on the way. I have been critical of FAZ. However, when you look what we have done in the past three years and the farm looking very good, I find it hard to bitch about the management. Their job is to give us a chance to win. They have done that.
FAZ has been running the team for 2 years, not the last 3. The team has won 4 in a row. Those prior 2 years belonged to Colletti. The new ownership has been here 3 years but not Friedman. New ownership allowed Colletti to make the trade for Gonzo, which people either hate or love. And by the way, they are still paying Carl Crawford this year, and he has not officially retired.
Here is Keith Law’s 2017 minor league rankings list:
1. Atlanta Braves (1st in 2016); 2. Yankees (13th in 2016); 3. San Diego Padres (20th in 2016); 4. Pittsburgh Pirates (8th in 2016); 5. Los Angeles Dodgers (2nd in 2016).
Al,
Note that the Dodgers were 2nd last year. In other rankings they were 1st. They are now 5th.
You really need to research all of the ‘great’ draft picks that Friedman had throughout his 9 years at Tampa. It is not impressive.
Other than the no-brainers of #1 overall David Price and #3 overall Evan Longoria, he had only 2 others (over 9 years) become bona fide ML players.
How often do you think he will be getting the #1 and #3 picks in the draft?
That’s what he knows too. Hence, why today he deals in the international market. If you can’t draft em, buy em. The problem with that philosophy is that it’s not 2005 with just a select few teams in that arena. Most every organization is swooning and proposing to the good international players and because of that the price tag has been skyrocketing.
Um, do you think the reason the Dodgers went from top ranked system to fifth could maybe, oh I don’t know, be because they graduated Urias and Seager?
And let’s talk great prospects, you do realize that FAZ (as you label them) has only been in power for what 3 years? Most draft picks are high-schoolers. That said, here’s Keith’s top ten, I’ll note the only ones that Friedman (hint it’s only 80%) has acquired:
1. Cody Bellinger, 1B/OF (Ranked No. 6)
2. Alex Verdugo, OF (Ranked No. 31)
3. Walker Buehler, RHP (Ranked No. 40)
– Friedman draft pick
4. Yadier Alvarez, RHP (Ranked No. 46)
– Friedman signing
5. Yusniel Diaz, OF
– Friedman signing
6. Austin Barnes, C/2B
– Friedman trade acquisition
7. Gavin Lux, SS
– Friedman draft pick
8. Omar Estevez, 2B/SS
– Friedman signing
9. Mitch White, RHP
– Friedman draft pick
10. Jordan Sheffield, RHP
– Friedman draft pick
Dodger farm system is envy of many teams including Giants. They would love to have some of Dodgers scouts that find these studs out of high school.
Maybe and probably. But most every Dodgers fan would rather have accomplished what the Giants accomplished so far in this decade.
Are we still rooting that we’re #1?
They inherited a two time Division winner. Their job is to improve the team. The debate is whether they’ve done that. The farm system got to number 1 because of Seager, Urias, Bellinger, De Leon et al, not because of what Friedman did.
Blanton is projected to pitch between 65-70 innings and produce .4-.7 WAR. Using the $8 million per WAR point as the base he most certainly is worth close to $4 million. A 2 year incentive based contract that would give him $4mm per year if he puts up .7 WAR each year would be worth it to both parties. I know in MLB where guaranteed money is not production dependent this arrangement is not likely.
Badger
They did not trade any of their good farm kids away like some of you would of done. They tried to remain competitive the first 3-4 years while building and hanging on to their farm kids. They have executed the plan very well.
Depends on how you look at it. They are just now in the 3rd year of their reign. Their draftees have not yet made impacts at AAA. Trading from strength is what they did with Deleon. They are loaded with RH power pitchers who are starters in the minors, so trading Deleon was not a big deal. I was more concerned with sending 3 top notch prospects to the A’s for the garbage they got from them. Reddick sucked from the minute they traded for him, Hill won 3 regular season games. It cost them those 3 prospects and 38 million to keep Hill, and I for one do not think he is worth it. Montas and Cotton are going to impact the A’s this year most likely and Holmes by next. You want to complain about anything, think of how good those 3 kids would have looked in blue. And no, they did not trade Seager or Urias. But nobody, not even Mark knew what the other teams were asking. It was all supposition. You trade quality to get quality. Who would you rather have, Hamel or Hill??? And all those kids they did not trade were courtesy of Logan White and his staff, not FAZ. Where is White now? Arizona….
I agree Michael. Well said.
Much of this depends on perspective. I still would not have traded a ML ready pitcher for another second baseman. We’ll see how that works out. Trading 3 top prospects for an old guy rental on the DL was classic high risk that really didn’t pay off. I am on record, then and now, I wouldn’t have done that. It’s my opinion that the contract recently given Hill is exactly like the contracts given McCarthy and Kazmir in that nobody else would have done it. We bid against ourselves in all 3 cases and I believe all 3 will eventually be evaluated as poor judgement calls. Again, we’ll see about that.
I still think if we were going into this year with ALL those prospects we traded, we would be in the driver’s seat at this deadline and set up for a monster run starting in ’18. It may still work out. We did keep most of our best.
Al,
What?
They have traded 4 of the top 13 prospects from a year ago. Where have you been?
DeLeon was projected to be the 2nd best pitcher behind Urias. Last off season if one would have spoke of trading DeLeon they would have been viciously attacked and called names on this site.
Despite the fact that you disregard the trade of Holmes #5, Montas #8 and Cotton #13 to the A’s, all three were in the top 13 prospects last off season.
For 4 of our top 5 rated pitchers (Urias being the other) in our system, we have acquired………wait for it……….Logan Forsythe.
This post is a wonderful, if unintentional, ode to the value and power of prospect depth and development.
“Some of you”? You’re talking like Timmons now. We can revisit that if you like. Some of “us” would have traded De Leon, a higher rated prospect than ANY of the prospects the Rangers gave Philadelphia, with a few other top prospects NOT named Seager or Urias, for Hamels. FAZ didn’t want the high priced Hamels. They prefer high risk not high priced. We will never know what Hamels behind Kershaw and Greinke would have meant. We sure as hell know what Wood and Anderson meant don’t we?
Idahoal
I don’t think that everyone should be so negative about the front office, this year.
They have made some moves that can be debated if they were good or bad moves, but right now, no one knows for sure.
They did bring back Turner, Kenley, and Hill, and that was the right thing to do.
And that showed me, that they do want to win now too.
I know some don’t like the signing of Hill, but he isn’t like Kazmir, McCarthy, and Anderson, because when Hill does pitch, he pitches much better, then these other three pitchers, so he is worth the risk, unlike those other pitchers.
We have so much depth, and young pitchers, that are on innings limit, I don’t think Hill is that much of a risk.
And I don’t think the front office signed Hill, expecting him to make most of his starts.
He is more like a top of an order pitcher, and he along with the young pitchers, will share the innings, and the starts.
Kershaw and Maeda are probably the only starters, that will make most of there starts, and if Hill does too, then we will be even better.
We can’t depend on Kazmir or McCarthy, and like Boxout said, let’s hope that Kazmir and McCarthy, pitch well at the begining of the season, so they can be traded, hopefully at the trade deadline, or sooner.
And about Logan, Turner got that same lubricate, that Logan got.
And Greinke also would get those lubricates, every spring training too.
It is used more for maintenance, to prevent anything from happening.
We have a very good contract with Logan, because he is only signed through this year, and he only has an option, for the next year, at a very fair price.
So if the Dodgers are not happy with his production, they can buy out his option year, and let him go.
And if they want him for another year, to give Calhoun more time to get better defensively, they have Logan for another year, and for a very good price.
Where did that depth come from MJ? Surely not from Friedman and his staff. They could not do that drafting in 2 years. The depth is holdover from Logan White. And for all this talk of what they have done, it is what they have not done that is their glaring weakness. They did not make a good team better. They just more or less kept the status quo. So they were 2 games away from the World Series. Big deal, had they gotten a slugger who could hit lefty’s and a TRUE #2 starter, They might have well beaten the Cubs. In their 2 years at the helm, they have not really made an IMPACT trade, and that is a fact, all their signings, and all their roster moves have done nothing more than keep the team competitive. I look at this starting rotation and I see disaster just lurking in the shadows. Why? Because 3 of the guys they are counting on are injury risks, 1 is a 20 year old with limited experience, a ton of talent and a innings limit. Maeda surprised with his win total, but he is not a horse who goes 7 every time out, and the other 3 are kids. You go back over the last 2 seasons and their first winter meetings, they have made a lot of trades, and how many of those guys are still Dodgers? The big deal with the Braves, Wood and Avilan are all that is left. Grandal is the only one left from the Kemp trade. Hatcher and Hernandez and Barnes still here from the big deal with the Marlins, but Hatcher and Hernandez are playing their way right off the team. And even at that, only Grandal, who I still dislike immensely, has made any sort of major contribution. Kike had half a good year. Hatcher has stunk, and Barnes has yet to show what he can do. Friedman did not draft all that well in Tampa. He still thinks small market. I like the depth the team has, but it would be nice to have a stud starter behind Kersh, and a couple of hitters you could depend on to hit LH pitching in the lineup…..Turner and Jansen, I agree with bringing them back, but I think they screwed the pooch on Hill, and missed the boat not resigning Blanton. I would take him over Romo any day.
There’s this odd aspect to some of the perceptions some here have towards in the front office. People alternate between saying they have a “small market” mentality and then bad-mouthing the “big market” deals.
Part of people’s argument is that Friedman overpaid for some players (Kazmir, Hill, McCarthy and Anderson) which is not a small market play. Then they rail on not spending more money on a RH power hitter (like Braun?) and lament him as having a small market mindset.
If you call every pitch a ball, you will never see a strike. In other words, if you only look at the marginal negative aspects to a deal, then all deals will have a negative glow. To this point this take didn’t mention the Chris Reed for Grant Dayton trade. Nor did it mention that the Braves trade and the Padres trades were similar to the Reed trade in that they WERE OUTRIGHT ROBBERY. The players surrendered, Olivera and Kemp, both have the same value in the big leagues. NOTHING.
How these can be construed in a negative light is beyond me, but it’s opinion and everyone has the right to try and do it.
Best post you have ever written MJ, well said.
The problem is the front office hasn’t been great as some like to say, and they have not been as bad, as some people think.
And this year, they did sign the players back, that we needed.
I think some would rather have the Dodgers not do well, to prove there point, that the front office, isn’t all that.
But just because the Dodgers do well, it isn’t all, because of the front office.
It takes a lot of different people, a long with Roberts, and the players, to make the team successful.
And both Colletti, and this front office, are responsible for the players, in the Dodger’s system, and the players, on the major league team.
Once our young pitchers are major league ready, they won’t be signing these risky pitchers, to fill the starting rotation, anymore.
They might sign them for extra depth, but not to be one of the starting five pitchers, in the rotation, like they did, with McCarthy, Anderson, and Kazmir.
And I wasn’t happy with those signings, but I don’t see that happening, anymore.
Because we have to many young pitchers, that are close to being, major league ready.
Why can’t everyone just enjoy the team, and the young players, that will be coming up, in the next couple years, and make this team, even better?
And I do think it is a fair question about the trade deadline deal, but we will have to wait, and see.
You want a reason fans do not just enjoy the team? 28 years without going to the World Series. Fans want a winner. It has been far too long in most fans mind to wait any longer. The Cubs won because their front office was not afraid to trade for a quality player to mix in with the solid players they got from their farm system. The Dodgers were hamstrung by injuries last year, and they persevered. But the only reason they won the division was the fact that the Giants did the biggest El Foldo in years. They were cruising and then just went totally south, and still got into the playoffs. They almost beat the Cubs. They have a better starting rotation than the Dodgers. Now they have a closer they trust. This team is not going to waltz to title #5 in a row. It is going to be an all out dog fight. Any one who thinks any different is just being naïve and foolish. And their GM is not afraid to pull the trigger on a trade that makes them better.
Evans is short on chips he is able to trade for impact help.
He might be short on chips, but him and Sabean always seem to get that guy……and sometimes it is not what seems at the time a major move. remember, they traded for Cody Ross, seemed just a filler trade at the time, but the guy instantly brought a good bat, and was one of the main reasons they won. Look at it this way. They got Hunter Pence….we got Shane Victorino……..advantage SF. It is not always what it seems. And they have made better deadline deals.
I have to agree with Michael, there.
The Giants have always seem to get these certain players, to fill there needs.
And those same players, have helped the Giants, win those three, World Series.
But there number one pitcher, has been able to pitch more effectively, in the post season, then Kershaw has, and that has been a problem, too.
The Giants went out and got their guys last year and finished behind the Dodgers plain and simple. Their Offense sucked and they did nothing to improve it. Moore better be lights out because between the deal with Milwaukee and the deal with Tampa they have nada in the minors.
Hunter Pence is always hurt. The hell with Hunter Pence. He will get hurt again and continue to hit something like .050 against Kershaw. They guy is an overrated spaz who takes god awful routes to fly balls.
Every front office makes mistakes. I can rattle off a shit ton from Coletti. Just off the top of my head-Schmidt, Jones, Pierre, Rivera. There’s a reason the ownership took away his ability to make trades and blocked him from the Kershaw negotiations. Just 5 years ago this was a bankrupt organization with an empty stadium and a baron minor league system. One team wins the World Series each year. Just one! Yes, I never thought the Dodgers would go 28 years, but let’s not act like things are bad. They may or may not do it this year but look at the youth. If Bellinger is as good as I think he is, the Dodgers are going to be good for a long time and a World Series title will come with it sooner rather than later.
Michael
It was easier for the Giants to sign those free agent starting pitchers, because they don’t have the young starting pitching, in there Farm sysytem, like the Dodgers have, so they didn’t have to worry, about blocking there young starting pitchers.
And if they sign Cueto after his opt out, that will be interesting to see, because he had elbow issues, the season, before the Giants signed him.
It was more then just the Giants bullpen and closer, that caused there fall.
They had a much easier schedule in the first half of the season, then the Dodgers did, when they got there lead.
And Posey wasn’t healthy most of the season, and Pence, wasn’t either, and because of that, they had trouble scoring, in the second half of the season.
If you remember, in that last series we played against the Giants, there anouncers said, the Giant’s bats, had just came to life, in that last series, of the regular season.
As much as everyone wants to talk about the Giant’s having a bad closer, and bullpen, we didn’t have Kershaw, for much of the second half, of the season.
And we didn’t have another starter, that could regularly, pitch further then five innings, in most games, so we didn’t have the starting pitching, and innings eaters, that the Giants had.
And they added another starter, at the trade deadline, and he pitched mostly deep into games, when he pitched.
And I have all ready said, I was not happy with that trade, at the trade deadline.
And every Dodger fan wants a World Series, but if we can maintain a program, much like the Cardinals have, and go to the post season, often.
Wouldn’t it be better, to get to the post season every year, and continue to build the team, with the Farm System, and a few free agents, here and there, then to bet on only one year?
You missed the point. Sure it would be great to win every year. But in the reality that is baseball today, that ain’t going to happen a lot. The Yankees won 3 in a row in the late 90’s and 2000. Since then no one has really come close. The Royals went to the series twice, but only won one. And all the things you pointed out aim right at the heart of FAZ’s biggest weakness, his inability to land an impact player. You have to go back to Colletti landing Manny Ramirez to find a player that truly turned the season around. Manny was a one man wrecking crew. Had they pulled off a trade that brought them a masher like that and a front line arm, we would not even be having this discussion. We have been to the post season 10 times since 1995. No world series appearances. 6 times since 2008, 4 of those they went to the NLCS and lost. They have been getting to the playoffs. The just have not won. The Giants schedule means bupkis. That is the Giants problem. They have been getting there, but not winning where as SF has taken advantage of their opportunities and won. Leadership and making the right personnel decisions has been the main reason for their success. And had they not collapsed last year they might have won again. None of us were happy with that trade, but that kind of trade has become FAZ’s signature move. Until that changes, I do not see this team as a championship unit. They have depth, and they have some very good players, but they lack killer instinct, and they lack quality in the starting rotation. In the end, that will be their undoing again, unless the ownership realizes that they need that stud pitcher out there with Kersh every 5th day.
Hawkeye
It is good to see you over here.
I always appreciate your input!
Re: the Front Office
1 – As Badger posted, the Braintrust seems to prefer high risk to high cost players. This is small market thinking in part, but is in part imposed on the Dodgers by luxury tax considerations. I would say that few of the high risk players signed have panned out – yes on Maeda (so far); no on McCarthy; 50/50 on Anderson (1 good year out of 2); no on Kazmir; the jury is out on Hill.
2 – The Dodgers’ success over the past 4 years is almost entirely due to the Colletti/White administration. All of the kids coming up who have made a difference were White draftees; same with the team’s core. Only regulars obtained by the Braintrust include Grandal, Forsyth (this year)/ Utley (last year), Kendrick. The starting pitching the Braintrust has obtained is mostly noteworthy for the amount of time spent on the DL.
3 – I appreciate the current emphasis on getting “character” guys – no more Hanley Ramirez or Matt Kemp sulking or causing trouble in the clubhouse.
4 – We don’t know if they kids traded away are going to come back to hurt the Dodgers or not. They have traded 4 of the top 13 prospects in the past 8 months, all right handed starters (except maybe Montas); they have traded from a surplus, and maybe traded guys they didn’t think would contribute.
5 – Braintrust hasn’t done enough at the deadline in either of the past 2 seasons, in my view. Last year’s haul was 6 starts from Hill and 2 bad months of Josh Reddick for 3 top prospects. Does anyone remember who the Dodgers obtained at the deadline in 2015? Mat Latos, Alex Wood, Jim Johnson, Luis Avilan, Jose Peraza. Not much help there.
6 – I too am surprised and glad that the Dodgers have brought back Turner and Jansen. The team didn’t have adequate guys in the system to replace them and they both came back at below market prices.
7- What happens when Ethier and Gonzalez come off of the books? Will this group spend money on actual major league players (as opposed to countless Cubans) or will we continue to see the old and infirm brought in on short term contracts? (Witness this off-season signings of Gutierrez, Utley and Hill).
Astute analysis…and right on the money.
Dodger rick
I am just being positive, and I want the Dodgers to win, and I have never gave all of my credit, to the front office.
Last year, I gave the credit to Roberts, his coaches, and the players.
And I have always questioned the starting pitchers, that they have signed, but I don’t think Hill is the same as McCarthy and Anderson, because he has a higher upside, so he is worth, the risk.
His signing, and the questions about it, are debatable and natural, because of the other starting pitchers, that they have signed.
And I did, and I have, questioned, that trade deadline deal, that this front office made, to get Hill, from the begining.
We didn’t need another lefthanded bat, and Reddick just blocked out, players we already had on the team, who would have done, a much better job.
And I just think that those three pitchers, that we gave up, seemed to be much, for what we got.
I didn’t and I don’t want them, to make trades, with the A’s, with Billy Beane there, because they are not going to win.
And with Kershaw out, and with Puig in AAA, the A’s and Billy Beane, held all of the cards, in that deal.
Theo won when he dealt with Billy ‘Small Balls’ Beane.
Hell, Theo did to Billy what Billy did to FAZ. Theo traded guys with expiring contracts (Samardzija & Hammel) for prospects(Addison Russell and Billy McKinney). So who learned from who?
Chili
That was the first time Beane, went in, for the post season.
But I am just talking about our GM, who was Beane’s assistant.
Billy Beane traded for RF Jermaine Dye at the deadline in 2001. The A’s won 102 games that year.
Billy Beane traded for Ted Lilly in 2003 of which they won 96 games.
He’s acquired players before for the stretch drive but he got his clock clean with the 2014 deadline trade.
The problem isn’t Billy Beane there, it’s Farhan Zaidi here.
Agree.
All I’m saying is that what Theo did to BB in 2014, BB turned around and did to FAZ in 2016.
Jonah
Exactly!
And really, Billy Beane’s worse deal that year, was when he traded Cespedes, to the Red Sox.
Because after that deal, the A’s went in a downward spiral, and they barely, went to the post season, that year.
Jonah
Thanks, and I knew you could give us a good selfie, and you came through, as usual.
And dressed at your best!
Rick
Do you think that they had to sign Hill, after giving up, those three pitchers?
To save face with their supporters , yes. The FAZophants want to tie the trading of three prospects to the signing as if they are connected. They are not.
The trade of three prospects was for 2 months of Josh Reddick and Rich Hill of which Reddick sucked and Hill arrived DOA, well maybe not totally dead, but DL on arrival. The Dodgers did not get to the WS. 3 Top Prospects gone.
As an example FAZ could have signed Hill the prior off season as he signed for $6M with Oakland. If FAZ had any vision whatsoever they would have signed him to a 3 year/$18M contract. Rich Hill would have been all over that.
The signing of Hill happened because FAZ… cough, cough….’outbid’ everyone for 37 y/o Hill’s services for the next 3 years/$48M. He is making tripled these next 3 years what he made his first 12 years in the league when he was in his prime.
I think that they might have signed Hill this offseason anyway. It was a way to sign an “ace” without spending ace money – $16MM/year for 3 years. Of course, if he wasn’t 37 years old and injury prone it would have cost way more.
This is the sort of high risk signing that they have been working instead of spending more to sign an established star.
I agree with you that Hill has been better the past season+ (when he has been able to pitch, which hasn’t been often) than the likes of Kazmir, McCarthy and Anderson, but still and all, they are paying $16MM/year to a guy who is unlikely to pitch more than 120 innings per season and whose arm may fall off and not only that, they are relying on him to be their #2 guy.
A high risk indeed.
Thanks Rick and Chili
I do value, your opinions.
Do not forget this. They are pretty much right now in a need to win this season mode. Why? Well Kershaw can opt out after next year. Who is going to anchor the rotation then? Hill? Urias? Stewart? Maeda? Nope. Just look at the roster fodder that came and went last year, and you trust FAZ to bring in immediate help? It was so hit and mostly miss last year it borders on being comical. Turner’s huge turnaround was one reason they held on, not because of anyone the FO acquired. The list of mediocre players and injury riddled low risk high reward guys he has tried is truly mind boggling. If he is a baseball genius, I am Tom Selleck….and that ain’t happening. Make a gutsy truly baseball trade like the Sox did for Sale, and I might think he actually knows what he is doing. if it costs me one major prospect, I can live with that if a Series title comes with it.
Michael
I don’t have to worry about you.
I know you want them to win, or you wouldn’t be almost getting a heart attack, when the games are close, and Baez or worse, are pitching.
And I don’t think anyone on this site, have claimed they are genius, or drink all of the Koolaid.
Exactly Michael! Took the words right out of my mouth…..well actually much more eloquently stated.
Small Balls Beane. Funny.
They’ll win again this year. Who knows, it’s tough to repeat and the Nats may cough up another hair ball so – this could be the year. Or not.
I did forget the trade with Oakland. I am getting old and the memory may be going. Not a good trade. But, we may have a very good number two pitcher. If we do, then it may look a lot better.
I think FAZ has two goals:
Try and win now.
Build up the farm so they did not have to use free agency all the time. Free agency can be used to fill a hole, but cannot be used to build a team.
They have done exactly what they set out to do. I think the job of the front office is to try and provide a chance to win every year. They have done that.
Remember, Seager and Urias were not signed by FAZ. However, they were smart enough to keep them.
No problem there Al.
I do agree about Seager. No way do you trade a Franchise type of player. But I feel a little (ok, a lot) different about pitchers. Urias will have his struggles and he is not the 2nd coming of Kershaw. Hell no one is. Urias might be a very good pitcher and he might be so-so. That remains to be seen. I’m of the thought that I will always take proven over unproven. Hamels….proven. Sale….proven. Sale’s contract was very team friendly. Kershaw and Sale sounds a lot better than Kershaw and Urias for the next couple of years.
Hi Chili,
What would you have given up for Sale if you wouldn’t trade Seager?
DeLeon, Cotton, Holmes, Verdugo and Puig. I would have held back Urias in my early negotiations.
But I would have pursued Sale at the trade deadline.
Then I would have signed Joey Bautista this off season to a 2 year deal.
Yeah, I’m sure they offered something close to that. If not more.
But did they?
Did they fly to Chicago and talk to Kenny Williams in person? Thats what I would have done.
I’m prone to believe they did, but obviously we cannot be sure.
Not sure what talking to the GM in person would do, nor am I sure that’s appropriate behaviour. Then every GM would be dropping in on every other, creating odd dynamics and what not.
It wasn’t a difficult decision to keep Seager and Urias. No brainer comes to mind.
I still say we won’t know how good FAZ really is until the payroll is all theirs. When AGon has cleared, they will be out of excuses. I think we can expect more of the same for a while. That blockbuster trade, or free agent signing of a Hall of Famer, isn’t happening as long as we are close to $40 million over threshold.
Badger
Did you watch to night?
Just follow the money.
Watch what tonight? I am watching a report on a Russian billionaire, the Deutsche Bank laundering money and the connection to our new Commerce Secretary.
The $40 million over reference was to the fine put forth by the new CBA. Remember, beginning in ’18 those teams $40 million over the threshold lose a top draft pick. That won’t sit well with FAZ. That threshold is set at $197mm.
Badger
The New Yorker.
And I love the cover.
Yeah, I saw that mentioned. Haven’t read it yet, but will tomorrow.
I just think management did everything needed to keep this team together. I really believe they like this team and so do I. Injuries will always play a part. I just think the Dodgers are better able to handle injuries than most teams.
I like this team a lot, but my problem is how they handle trades with prospects, and this latest episode of Forsythe needing lubricating injections must have been known to Friedman.
FO tendencies can be picked up and exploited, just like batters and hitters. With the FAZ, they tend to undervalue their own prospects and, like Badger aptly said, prefer high risk over high priced (or longer contracts). So this can be exploited, and our trade with the A’s as well as with the Rays totally exemplify this.
To be fair, they have done better on drafts than their track record (maybe because they have a bigger/more expensive team of scouts and development personnel). And as Rick said, they’ve improved the clubhouse a lot with character guys (though credit also due to Roberts having more influence).
And of course their strength is in the off radar low dollar moves like Dayton, and also the international slot trades, etc. I also give them credit for unloading players like Crawford. Lots of FO’s wouldn’t have gone that. And they also hired Roberts over their own personal pick. Not enough credit were given for those decisions which had to be hard to make.
But the “on radar” moves? It’s clear to me that they deal too many B to B+ prospects to get short-term contract vets whom they think can have a “breakout” or “turnaround” season or two. Sometimes even Colleti gets lucky with those types of players (like Justin Turner).
If I was an opposing GM I’d target and exploit these weaknesses, and heaven help us if they do it again this year, if they unload Calhoun, Verdugo and Oaks for another mediocre or injury prone vet on a short contract. Line up their deals and you can see a pattern, and weaknesses. Maybe some clubs’ FO are already signing the likes or Bautista and Carter with the hopes of bagging some of our prospects at the trade deadline.
I’d do the hill for three mid rotation guys every day of the year.
That’s what I’ve read Holmes, cotton and Montana are
YF
I don’t give them credit for having Roberts, be the manager, because the owners got involved, with that.
But I do give them credit, for not agreeing to give Mattingly, more years, and that was a very good move.
Fei
I do not know if the lubricating injection is that big a deal. Turner, and Grienke do that every spring. I am not a doctor, but it seems to be something that is acceptable.
Idahoal
I think that is just smart players, that know there bodies, and they only do that for maintenance, and to prevent injuries, so you are right.
Michael, I do see a Tom Selleck similarity. You are better looking though.
But Selleck has hair. (On his head, I mean…)
And so does Jonah!
Jonah
There is a cute dog video at TrueblueLA’s top story with Kazmir in the headline, in there comments section.
Only 50 something comments, and this dog accidently went through a sliding glass window before, and this is a video, of the dog, when the glass in the window is gone.
It is so cute!