The Dodgers’ nation let out a huge sigh of relief as the news spread that Kenley Jansen had agreed to stay a Dodger for the next five years (with an opt out clause after three years) for the nice, round figure of $80 million. What made him turn down more lucrative offers in places where the outfield grass might seem greener? I believe Kenley was influenced – and Dodger fans received the early Christmas gift of an elite closer in their blue stockings – by the good timing of a wedding.
Almost as soon as the Dodgers’ 2016 season came to an end, speculation began over whether the Dodgers would keep Jansen on, and whether he even wanted to remain in Los Angeles. I had written before about the Dodgers previously being unwilling to offer Jansen multi-year contracts and openly trying to acquire another closer (Aroldis Chapman), which seemed to signal they were simply not committed to Jansen.
There was also the matter of the Dodgers needing to keep salary costs down. With Justin Turner emerging as another big dollar free agent, it was even money the team would only pursue one. Turner seemed to be the most valuable (and economical) asset because he could contribute daily, and for probably less money than Jansen would command.
As MLB’s Winter Meetings ran on, the rumor mills heated up, and it was reported that Jansen was being heavily courted by the New York Yankees, Washington Nationals, and even the Miami Marlins.
The Yankees have all the money and baseball history in the world, plus the thrills of the Big Apple to offer. What player wouldn’t love to play under the storied lights of New York? I was starting to wake up in the middle of the night seeing Jansen in Yankee pinstripes.
Washington offers…well…tours of the White House, and lots of money. They were throwing a whole lot of it in Kenley Jansen’s direction, and reportedly, it was more than the Dodgers were laying on the table.
Jansen’s former manager Don Mattingly has been assembling a “Dodgers east” in Miami. They recently signed A.J. Ellis, one of Jansen’s former catchers, so Kenley might have been considering moving someplace with familiar faces. The possibilities for Jansen kept the Twitter feeds running non-stop.
When the Winter Meetings broke a few days ago, many anticipated the next baseball news would be about Jansen’s decision.
Then came “The Wedding”.
Kenley Jansen was married over the weekend in his home country of Curacao, and Dodger teammates Justin Turner, Yasiel Puig and Scott Van Slyke were there for the happy occasion. In my opinion, this was the event that turned the tide.
A couple of summers ago, I was best man at my friend’s wedding, which took place in his bride’s birthplace of Hawaii. There’s nothing like returning home for a wedding to give rise to feelings of nostalgia and the close bond of family and friends.
Throw in a few drinks and the contemplation of life over beautiful island sunsets, and all of those emotions are intensified. Being in that wedding was the experience of a lifetime for me, and I’m willing to bet some of the feelings that arose for us in Hawaii were close to those experienced by those Dodgers in Curacao.
Puig, Tuner, Van Slyke and Jansen must have spent time alone reminiscing about the 2016 season and the ups and downs of playing in Los Angeles, experiences known only to them as teammates. I’m sure the fact they were all together in his birth home to celebrate one of the biggest days on his life reinforced their bonds as friends.
As a big orange sun set over an ocean of dancing diamonds, the pleadings from Washington and others sunk as well.
Sure, the Nationals offered a few more million dollars, but at the end of the day, Jansen figured he would make plenty in the first three years of the Dodgers contract, after which he could opt out if he wanted. In the meantime, he would stay in Los Angeles with the friends who joined him on his wedding day.
The deal for the greatest Dodgers closer ever, was closed on a beach, among close friends.
Oscar Martinez
I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully was the golden voice of summer all my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodgers manager ever. My favorite things are coffee, beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.
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Hey Oscar, Isn’t Puig in the picture also?? Can’t forget about him! Looks like a big happy family!!!
Geez, my bad! Thanks for catching that!
Nice Story. Wasn’t Yasiel there too?
With J.T. Soon to sign, I guess the bitching shifts to the FO’s failure to get a ??
Hey Pete, any stock tips? You seem like you have a knack for predicting.
Anybody want to trade Grandal for Baltimore’s 2Bman Jonathan Schoop?
http://m.mlb.com/player/570731/jonathan-schoop?year=2016&stats=career-r-fielding-mlb
Baltimore wants lefty hitters in their outfield and a catcher.
Puig RF, Seager SS, Turner 3b, Schoop 2b, Pederson CF, Thompson LF, Gonzales 1B, Barnes C
I’d pass on that sub .300 OBP.
Just a blue fan since the Chinese curtain n Moon shots..
2017 NLW again. Beyond that, only Mark knows!
None of the projections sites think much of our starting pitching. I didn’t have to look them up to agree, but I did, and I do. I might be a bit more optimistic – example: Kazmir and McCarthy are projected to pitch 115 innings, combined. I’ll take the over on that but I don’t see this rotation improving much on their 29th finish in innings pitched. We will again need stellar bullpen work and a lot of it. We haven’t yet improved our weakness in hitting LHP. Maybe Puig will help, maybe not. Have we improved? Not yet. Have other teams in the West improved. Oh yes. I still have the under on 91. I have only seen one other poster predict anything on that, 87, sorry, at the moment I don’t recall who that was as I’ve heard privately from a fee former posters who feel under 91 is a safe bet. Obviously that could change.
I’ll fly my flag, Badger, it was I who predicted the 87 wins. It is now meaningless as now Kenley and Turner are rejoining the team so everything must be recomputed. Hopefully there will be even more positive additions to the team in the next 3-4 months. But I retain my right to be pessimistic.
Aren’t you always quoting FanGraphs???? Did you miss their projection???
They have Dodger starting pitching for 2017 at # 1!!!!! Better than Boston with Sale!!!
https://dodgers.mlblogs.com/dodgers-2017-starting-pitching-c7517133eddc#.7ptfu0pi0
Don’t be so obtuse as to try and confuse things with facts.
Obtuse? Did you hear that word in a movie? I don’t think it means what you think it does. Besides, projections aren’t facts. You said so yourself.
Wood, 141 innings? 2.3 WAR? I’ll take the under on that. I’m tempted to take the under on Hill’s projections too. As Rick pointed out, he hasn’t thrown that many in a decade and he’s now a 37 year old fat cat. He did his Copperfield act and got his money, he can relax now. And I hate to be the one to mention it, but somebody has to – hold your breath on Kershaw’s back. I believe he should be good to go, but with torque he puts on it, you never know.
I am afraid I don’t comprehend why so many people hate Scott Kazmir:
Check out these career records:
Scott Kazmir (Age 32) – 108-96 4.01 ERA – Owed $32M/2 years
Jeff Samardzija (Age 31) – 59-72 4.04 ERA – Owed $80M/4 years
Gio Gonzalez (Age 31) – 102-73 – 3.73 ERA – Owed UP $36M/3 years
Edinson Volquez (Age 33) 89-79 4.44 ERA – Owed $22 M/2 years
I don’t get why people are so down on him. He’s not our ACE – we need him to be our #4 or #5 and he’s damn good for that!
I do predict that before the season is over, the Dodgers rotation will be one of the TOP 5 in baseball. Write that down! I said it… I meant it… and I’m here to represent it!
Perhaps they hate him for what he isn’t rather than what he is….
He’s likely to be a #4 or #5 and at that he’s pretty good.
I truly have never seen our rotation so stacked.
Every pitcher is one pitch away from the DL, so you never know what might happen, but we have so many young arms too.
Mark
They didn’t sign Kazmir to be a number four or five.
In fact before anyone even pitched, Kazmir was called our number two pitcher.
But since Maeda was able to pitch much better, he became our number two pitcher.
Top 5? Not in innings pitched. You pull them out before 6, the numbers will be obviously be better. But it often requires the bullpen to win the game.
You obviously missed the 60’s then.
Our rotation is so stacked with guys who are one pitch away from the DL! That’s a good thing?
The issue with Kazmir is that he isn’t a very good pitcher, regardless of his contract. But with this administration he just needs to go four innings.
Wondering
You got that right as always!
Kazmir was 10-6 with the Dodgers with an ERA north of 4……..4.56 to be exact. He pitched in 26 games. He had 2 less strikeouts than innings pitched. The reason Kazmir was vilified was simply, you never knew if you were going to get a 6 inning shutout, or he was gone with 6 runs given up by the 5th inning. I saw Kazmir pitch twice in person. Once in Colorado and the other time in LA. In both games he was out by the 5th inning. In Colorado he blew a 7 run lead. You paid 16 million dollars for 10 wins and a huge burden on the bull pen. And excuse me, a career ERA over 4 might work in the AL where you have DH’s who lengthen the lineup, but not in the NL. And once again he was injured and absolutely useless when they could have used another arm. He is more suited to the AL than the NL and the guy is the absolute worst bunter I have seen since Ballet Brett.
I think because many thought FAZ should have signed Greinke instead of Kazmir and Maeda.
Add Leake to your list.
2016 Leake, 176 IP, 4.69 ERA
2016 Kazmir, 136 IP, 4.56 ERA
Leake is owed $68M over the next four years compared to Kazmir’s $32M. Card’s would probably love to trade Leake for Kazmir, but sadly for Card’s, they also had to give Leake a full no trade clause!!
Mike Leake (Age 29) – 73 – 64, 3.99 ERA – Owed $68M/4 years
Yeah probably. But Leake has a chance to improve…Kazmir is what he is.
Mark, you did just compare him to a group of guys that I don’t want either.
You also said Jensen was as good as gone!
Starting 5:
Kershaw
Hill
Urias
Maeda
Kazmir
Reserve 7:
McCarthy
Ryu
Stewart
De Leon
Buehelr
Wood
De Jong
I take exception to a couple of your projections about the rotation:
1 – I don’t expect Hill to pitch much more than 125 innings. If he managed 125 it would be the second most that he pitched in a 14 year career.
2 – I expect one of Kazmir and McCarthy to be traded for salary relief, probably Kazmir since he was able to pitch 126 inning last year and more in 2015 and McCarthy managed 50 over the past 2 seasons.
3 – Urias won’t pitch more than 160 innings this year. This would be a 25% increase over the 126 that he pitched in 2016.
4 – I don’t expect Wood to start.
5 – I don’t expect Ryu to pitch again.
I expect the rotation to start out as
Kershaw
Hill
Urias
Maeda
Kid #2 (DeLeon? Stripling?)
I expect that both Hill and Urias will be unavailable for some of the season and that Kazmir won’t be on the roster at the start of the season.
Well, that is an opinion based upon the past. Sometimes history repeats itself… except when it doesn’t.
Mark
Why would we want Kazmir or like him, when he didn’t pitch well at all, and he doesn’t like being on the Dodgers?
And like I said above, he was never slated to be our number four or five.
In fact he was refered to as our number two, before the season began.
It was only when Maeda out pitched him, that Maeda became our number two pitcher.
You are counting on 3 injury prone guys to comeback..Ryu is definitely the biggest question mark, and I think no one expects him back. And after that , outside of Wood the list is full of talented kids with little experience. You are putting a lot of faith in those youngsters…..and it is spelled Buehler………..
I think most people would rather see JDL, and Stewart pitch, then McCarthy or Kazmir.
Every ST as steady as sin, other teams SP’s go down.. I think McC n Kazmir will be gone.
JDL will be part of a trade to get 2B or OF help.
Elementary..
If we could get Braun for Puig, Calhoun and McCarthy, then I would roll the dice at 2B with Kike and Micah.
OTOH, what if we did trade JDL, Verdugo and Lux to the twins for Dozier (25 HR in LA but not bad)?
Hummmm!
I still like Toles at leadoff.
Mark
I do too, and like you said. Dozier scares me.
I’m not sold on Toles. Certainly not in the leadoff role. He’s got 105 at bats at the ML level. That’s not enough to convince me he’s ready for that responsibility.
Toles started out as like a bat out of hell and then maybe the pitching caught on to him? He might go from number 1 to number 7 to play left out. Let’s see what happens for the rest of the off-season
I can see that, Ray!
What you can’t see is a guy who was out of baseball a year, started at A ball and tore it up on every level. He hit .370 in A ball, .314 at AA, .321 at AA and .314 in the majors. He was once a top prospect. I like what I have seen. Get some vision Ray! There’s no quit in this kid. Will it be easy? NO! But that has never stopped him. 😉
I’m a believer in Toles. He hit better than most of the team in the playoffs too. If Dozier is the guy at 2B, Toles needs to hit at the top. I still prefer
Toles
Kinsler
Seager
Turner
Gonzalez
Puig
Joc
Grandal
Kinsler not coming to the Dodgers. He has LA on his no-trade list and he said he would not waive that unless he got an extension. And that ain’t happening….
People put in no-trade clauses to gain leverage. Doesn’t mean it can’t be worked out. Many players list teams like the Dodgers to get more money.
Hate to tell you this Hawkeye, other teams will, the Dodgers will not. Not this FO anyway…they would rather have Dozier anyway.
Agree with Michael.
Let other teams get blackmailed.
Doesnt have to be the Dodgers who pay the ransom depending on how much the Tigers want a deal.
Well he did look a lot like Ray Charles on that fly ball in Wrigley.
Funny how we have Toles, Hill and Turner
off of the scrap pile with very similar lucky results. So far Turner is the only one with any sort of resume. As far as Hill and Toles.. we’re going to find out about their longevity. We don’t want to just keep our fingers crossed. We have to cover our asses just in case. We can’t just keep getting lucky, there has to be real substance. There is nothing special about our front office. Everyone else has similar Talent in the FO. All the Guru writers are in front offices now
How can anyone really judge Toles on what he did in September?
He wasn’t getting consistent at bats, or playing everyday.
If Joc or anyone else was getting the at bats he was getting, there numbers would go down too.
We do need to see more of him, but we need to give our young players a chance to flourish, and sometimes that means just going with them for a couple of months or more, to see what they can do.
Our young players have been blocked by our veterans, especially in the outfield.
The Nats and Boston didn’t know for sure, that there young outfielders would produce.
Trea Turner, and Bendentini were given that chance.
And the Bendentini came up from AA.
But everyone is right, we need to see Toles more, but we need to give him a chance too.
Because everyone has been wanting that lead off guy, ever since Gordon was traded.
Toles speed in the outfield, really made a difference on defense, in the outfield.
And I know he dropped that ball, but Reddick dropped more balls, then Toles.
He just let the game speed up on him there.
I think the Dodgers can be patient and wait out the trade market a bit for 2B. No need to overpay for Dozier.
Hawkeye
I agree with that.
Dozier is 29 and he is getting past his prime, do we really want to give up that many prospects for Dozier?
But it does seem like it would be good to get a second baseman, that can hit lefties well, because that is getting what we need, with one player, but we need to see what comes around.
There are good players out there, that are not big names, but they may do the job.
On Dodger Talk, they were saying that the Rays second baseman, was better then Dozier, and he shouldn’t cost as much.
But I don’t like our front office dealing with the Rays, because the Rays are not going to be easy to deal with, but there has to be someone else out there.
Even Solarte wouldn’t be terrible, if he doesn’t cost much.
He always seems to get a big hit against us, and gets a rally going, but I know he isn’t that big bat, that we need against lefties.
But he is a good hitter.
We need a guy that hits for an average, and has a lot power, that will hit lefties well.
This will help our line up, and protect our other hitters, and make our line up, longer.
We don’t know for sure that Thompson and Scotty, will deliver.
But we do need to give Thompson a chance.
He was hurt when his hitting stats when down, so he is worth a look.
I am really suprised that the front office gave Scotty a guaranteed contract, after what he has done the last two years.
I wonder like Hawkeye, was it only that one Dback pitcher, that Scotty could hit.
SVS feasted on Miley. I don’t love Forsyth but he would do.
I would say Dozier is in the middle of his prime years and his contract is ridiculously cheap. I just worry about whether last season was a career year. I hate to see DeLeon and Alvarez go for two years of Dozier and wind up with a .240 hitter who draws some not a lot of walks.
I am in favor of trying in-house options at 2B first: Micah Johnson, Kike Hernandez and Charlie Culberson. Hit ’em 8th.
I expect Joc Pederson to improve incrementally again and let’s not forget that Yasmani Grandal came off of shoulder surgery last offseason. He will have more power this year. He played sparingly in April last year and was below .150 in May and June, finally getting it going in July. A year later in his recovery and he should be even better. 30+ HR and higher BA. He is beloved by teammates and coaches for his work ethic.
A-Gon will have to be platooned even more. I think he will sit against many LH pitchers if Ruf (who mashes lefties – .371 in 2015) or SVS can hit against the LHP. Could Andre have his “career year?” Can Trayce Thompson realize his immense potential? Is Toles worthy? And… what is Yasiel Puig?
Mark
We don’t need more power from Grandal, we need him to bring up his average.
He would make a much bigger difference that way, and more often.
Kike scares me, because all of the pitchers, were ready for him, and Bumgarner even finally made an adjustment on Kike too.
And Kike never made the adjustment back, and he was swinging way to hard, and pitchers took advantage of his big swing, easily.
He also didn’t do much in spring training, because he was coming back from a surgery, so who knows what he would have done, if he was fine in spring training.
Turner and Corey should have even better numbers, because it took Turner sometime to come back from his surgery, and Corey missed most of spring training, so his first month, really wasn’t Corey like.
But the bottom line is, that we need another good bat, that hits lefties well.
There platoon line up, not only didn’t do much against lefties, they were last in offense, in all of baseball.
You don’t continue to go with a platoon line up, if that is what is happening.
They should have the everyday line up play, instead of a whole different line up, dedicated to lefties.
A team doesn’t have a whole different line up, to hit lefties in the post season.
And if they want to sit a couple of players do it, but don’t have an entire line up, that is for lefties.
I wonder if fan and press reactions to the lack of activity by the Dodger Front Office had anything to do with yesterday’s sudden flurry of signings? Don’t interpret this as an attack on FAZ, I’m sure he does exactly what Ownership orders him to do…. I wonder if the owners tried to not sign Kenly and Turner, to help their financial situation, but were forced to throw more money in the pot by vocal reaction of fans and the press? We’ll never know…
Wondering
I really thought Mark would say, that that owners made the front office sign Turner and Kenley, but Mark didn’t say that thankfully.
But the front office needed to finally give two players a contract, that actually deserved a good contract.
Because the contracts they had already given out, had predictable bad results.
Unfortunately for us fan prognosticators, we will know nothing until this team breaks camp and heads west. We can dream and speculate all we want. Things happen in spring. Injuries, trades, lineup shuffling. Things will happen to the other teams too. And the re-tooling of all teams is not over yet. There are free agents out there and trades that will be made. I am waiting until February to see what heads to camp before I even think about what they might do in 17.
I think the Dodgers have set themselves up for years. Signing Jansen and Turner will allow the farm kids to develop. Some will make it to the majors this year. Some in the next two or three years. There is enough in house players to fill in at second. In the outfield you can have Ethier and Thompson in left field and Puig and Toles in right field.
I agree with Mark on the starting pitchers and if any falter there are plenty of arms to fill in. I can see De Leon being the 5th starter.
The bull pen is now in good shape. Their are plenty of arms to choose from. I do not see any weakness. I do not like platooning, but we will see it again. Go Dodgers.
Those who have said the front office acts like small market players just had their world shattered. I was of the same opinion until now. I did not think they would sign Jansen. I have more faith in the front office today than I did yesterday. We are now on the road to a very successful 5 years and beyond.
Agreed on all points. I’d like to bring Blanton back. (Joey Pancakes??? Where’d that come from?) Also believe I’d trade for Solarte from the Padres. Cheap, versatile, got some punch, better than anyone we have on the farm. And repeat, cheap. And I still have zero faith in Barnes, another catcher is essential in my book…
I do think Solarte will cost more in a trade than people think.
I think everyone agrees with that!
The Dodgers might have their righty power bat already in Thompson. I would stay with an outfield of Puig, Pederson, Thompson, and Toles and be open to trading Ethier and Verdugo now.
I would wait until McCarthy, Kazmir, and Ryu show they are healthy and tradeable while watching to see what they have in Thompson and Toles before making a move to add a righty bat in the outfield.
I want a young second baseman, 25 years old max. But I could live with Dozier in a three team trade where Grandal went to Baltimore, Schoops went to Minnesota, and Dozier went to the Dodgers.
I’ll give up Grandal’s 30 home runs mostly from the left side for Dozier’s 25 home runs from the right side and live putting last year’s offense at second base behind home plate in Barnes.
I think there’s zero chance of trading Grandal. His framing is highly regarded, as is his OPS and WAR for a catcher. Further, can Barnes play full-time?
Would have to get a phenomenal return.
I think Thompson’s a really interesting case. Because his inclusion could portend (COULD) a change to a serious platoon based lineup. Thompson, Puig, Ruf vs. Lefties. Joc, Toles and Ethier vs. Righties?
Obviously there are roster size limitations that bears more investigating. BUT, I think platoons could be more and more prevalent.
Agree, Grandal isn’t going anywhere!! 28 yr old (in 2017) switch-hitting catchers coming off a 2.9 WAR season making $2.8M, but, elgible for arbitration in 2017 are very valuable. I find it hard to believe the old codgers around here can’t remember back to 2014, Ellis, .191 BA, Butera, .188 BA, Federowicz, .113 BA. An aging mind is a scary thing!!
Could be platooning in all three outfield positions in 2017 and there should be until someone shows they deserve to play everyday. Add Hernandez, Van Slyke and Segedin to your right-handed possibilities and Bellinger or Verdugo if any injuries to your lefty bats.
You assume old guys can’t remember that far back? That’s rather insulting. But then, source – catbox.
Remember the old saying – “to assume makes an ass out of you but not me” – or something like that. I can’t remember.
Well BAAAAAAAAger, It has to be one of two things:
1. An inability to remember back to 2014
2. FAZ derangement syndrome. An inability to give credit to FAZ for a HUGE trade won!!
I believe Ruf will be in OKC if SVS is still a Dodger.
Bum
We have been waiting on McCarthy for two years now.
And I rather let our young pitchers pitch, to get some more experience in, before Kershaw’s free agency comes up.
And that would be nice if Kershaw would let us know like you said, that he wants to go home, so we can pick up a bunch a prospects for him.
Trade Grandal? Oh, you’re gonna hear about that one.
Boras. Boon or hindrance.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2681526-scott-millers-starting-9-bryce-machado-championship-coffee-and-looking-ahead?utm_campaign=tsipad&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=teamstream
Yeah, maybe Thompson will hit for a full year. I like the guy, but his minor league stats aren’t all that – .241/.319/747. If one looks at Toles success in the minors and projects positive results in the Majors, wouldn’t lack of success in the minors project similarly In the bigs? Or am I being obtuse?
There are two chances Grandal will be traded: Slim and none!
The Dude is just coming into his own. You will see his pitch blocking improve too.
I will believe that when I see it. Has not done so the last 2 years……but I will with hold judgement until May or so. Or maybe after the first week of the season.
https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/808694026689974273
Anybody we know?? Actually, I doubt the Dodgers would offer prospects with so many older players they’d really love to move…
Well nice to see that the recent good news has brought harmony to the board.
I understand the desire to promote from within and maybe platoon various played at 2B.
However, IMO, I would really like to see us aggressively look to improve our production there.
We have a glut of utility/ bench players that we could use, but to be honest, I don’t rate any of them.
Kike, Johnson or Taylor, none of them will improve us, which is surely what the aim is.
We have a plethora of marginal depth players, together with some good prospects. Surely it’s time to trade some away for a decent upgrade? A MLB ready player.
I feel the same about LF. If we could upgrade those positions then we would have a very long lineup.
I keep Grandal, I only see him getting better.
Watford
I agree.
We can’t depend on that platoon line up, of part time players.
Every team will be throwing lefties at us, the entire game.
If they want to give a couple players a day off that is fine, but don’t have an almost entire line up, just to hit lefties.
That line up was last an offense, in all of baseball, all last year.
And these platoon players are not getting consistent at bats.
Our regular line up,,that is getting more consistent at bats, is more likely, to hit better, then a bunch of part time players, or AAAA players, that are only getting a few at bats.
We need a big bat, that hits lefties well, and can hit both for an average, and hit with power, and non of those part time players, or AAAA players, are the answer!
Is Turner’s contract the most ever for 3B? If so, Machado will go through the roof. I don’t think the position merits that kind of dough, but he is a good player and a good guy. Just get rid of the beard. It might be nice to be a middle infielder in the organization because 2B is wide open. I wouldn’t spend the bank on a 2B. I’m still wondering why Kendrick wasn’t kept around. They could have made him happy by playing him.
Jeez, I hope not.
David Wright, Pablo Sandoval, even Donaldson better be making more.
Its actually a remarkable value in my eyes. Only 4 years to boot, which is the fewest I could have forseen as an outcome.
Beltre? How much are the Yanks paying that mediocre Headley cat?
Beltre is getting $18MM, I don’t think any of the others are more than Turner’s $16MM. Correction, Sandoval is getting $17MM. I think there is an ongoing possibility that Turner’s total package might increase a bit if he’ll agree to take some deferred money. I would give my life (what little I got left) for one year of it. Or less…
WOndering motivated me!
Donaldson at 17mm per.
Wright at 20mm per.
Longoria and Headley at 13mm per.
I looked up Beltre and Sandoval, didn’t think any of the others would be close. My error. Looking at Beltre, Sandoval, and Wright, how could they even think about not giving him $16MM?
Bluto
I am suprised that Donaldson is getting that much.
Because I don’t think he has been a free agent yet, and he was traded from the A’s to the Bluejays.
Wondering
I would want some of my money deferred, if I was Turner’s age.
It isn’t like he will only get peanuts in his first few years either.
I think me and you, could split Turner’s up front money, and still donate some of the money to someone not as well off, as we would be.
If my calculator isn’t drunk, Turner will make almost $44,000 a day. That’s every day of the year, not just game days. One day of his salary would give me a very hefty raise. Honestly, I receive a small pension, probably much less than most here think necessary to get by on, but I live a very downscale life and it is sufficient for my needs. Any money I would receive would go to my nephews and their kids. I’m glad I’m not a ball player, my conscience would bother me.
Bobbie 17
Are you kidding about Turner’s amount?
Have you took a look, at what middle of the order hitters are getting in baseball today?
And Turner not only is a middle of the order hitter, he is also close to a gold glove on defense.
And if he wasn’t going to be 32, he would have got a lot more!.
Machado might want to play shortstop, once he becomes a free agent.
That is his normal position, and a shortstop that hits like that, cost even more.
Machado might even get a larger contract then Harper.
I just don’t understand why you feel that way, after watching Turner play in the last three years.
Turner had the third best offensive stats of all third baseman, in baseball last year.
And he was a finalist for a gold glove, a long with Arrenando, who won the gold glove.
On MLB Now yesterday, they looked at Turner’s stats, and said that Turner was the biggest bargain, of all of the free agents on the market this year..
And these ratings were done by a head saber metric guy, that were based on only Turner’s numbers.
Wondering
One day would be a lot for me too!
I can’t even imagine having that kind of money.
It makes me wonder why any athlete, would want to be anything other then a baseball player.
Tom Brady is not making anything close to what David Price, is making on the Red Sox.
Turner is a bargain at 4/$64MM per Fangraphs
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs/dodgers-spending-big-to-bring-back-core/
Rick
I have been saying that, for the last couple of weeks.
I wonder if Pittsburgh would be interested in taking Puig for McCutcheon? How close a deal is that?
Wondering
The Pirates wanted to move McCuthen, to give one of there own top prospects to place to play.
Wondering
Do you know who it was, that had there name, as Ray Charles?
I know Mark says that, but I don’t think it was Mark.
It’s me, Karl. Dodger fan since 1962… My first transistor radio
I tried to change it but the website won’t let me maybe someone knows how?
I thought it was Mark. Sorry for my comments, you probably don’t deserve them…. In the Comment Box, just backspace the Name out and type in a new one, your choice. The email address is what counts, not the name… I will post this comment as Stevie Wonder to prove it.
I was the one sitting in the barber chair when Maury Wills stole his 95th base getting my monthly Butch and they said it doesn’t break Ty Cobbs record
Here’s a WP website with a couple of different ways to do it:
http://www.wpbeginner.com/wp-tutorials/how-to-change-your-wordpress-username/
or this:
Change Your Username — Support — WordPress.com
https://en.support.wordpress.com/change-your-username/
Change Username. Log into WordPress.com using your existing username. Access your Account Settings and enter the username you want under Username. In the box Confirm Username that appears, enter your new username again. The next step will allow you to change or create a matching blog address:
This must be Boxout!
I was sure it was Mark. And of course I was wrong. Que sera, sera.
Wondering
I think that is Boxout messing with us.
No, not Catbox’s style. He’s an in-your-face domineering, Republican kind of guy, no subtlety….
I would do that in an instant but unfortunately the Pirates will not.
They will want a top prospect as well.
However, that would not deter me from chasing Braun or McCucheon.
A lineup with Dozier & McC or Braun would be very powerful.
CF Joc
SS Seagar
3B Turner
LF Braun/ McCutcheon
1B Agon
2B Dozier
RF Ethier
C Grandal
P
Strong looking lineup although lacking a true Lead off guy.
I like that lineup but you are right it is lacking a true leadoff hitter. We’ll have to see what Toles will do in ST. Maybe he’ll be the leadoff hitter and switch positions with Ethier then adjust the lineup accordingly.
Afterall, Utley wasn’t a true leadoff hitter either and we got within 2 games of the WS. Also i’d rather have Braun than McCutchen. In 2015-16 Braun stole 40 bases with a success rate of over 80%
Just as an afterthought I looked up what Braun has done against some of the best LHP lifetime. They are(were) Hammels, Kershaw. Bum, Lee and Lester.
Combined .347(50-144) 9 HR 19 RBi’s.
Dozier hit leadoff for Twins.
I think i’d pass on McCutchen. Keep the kids and save the money. They’re gonna want Verdugo
Gonna see an old friend http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/padres-claim-zach-lee.html?fv-home=true&post-id=80492
Really nice article by Passan on the Dodgers.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/heres-why-the-future-dodgers-are-downright-scary-054109774.html
I like this bit:
When Friedman and Zaidi joined the Dodgers in the offseason after 2014, they didn’t bring with them some sort of small-market juju. There was actual substance to their approach: go piecemeal for a short while until the development system in which they have invested as much as any team turns into a talent spigot that won’t stop. The problem with the bloated Yankees of the 2000s and into this decade wasn’t all their bad contracts. It was that the team developed next to no talent alongside it.
I read the article too and Passan paints a really bright picture of the future. This always assumes that all of the prospects work out and is a little naïve in my view but I am hopeful too.
A more balanced view of the situation is here:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/12/12/
“President of baseball operations Andrew Friedman and general manager Farhan Zaidi have plenty of work still to do on the bullpen’s supporting cast: Top setup man Joe Blanton and longtime lefty workhorse J.P Howell are free agents; Yimi Garcia, Chris Hatcher and Adam Liberatore are among those coming back from injuries; and Pedro Baez remains erratic. Assuming Turner joins the fold, Los Angeles will still have to fill its second base vacancy, sort out its outfield situation and perhaps add another starter given the number of injury risks within its current stable. ”
This is similar to my post from the other day. I do not think that the Braintrust is done constructing the 2017 roster yet. I expect to see trades and another signing or two.
1 – They will look for salary relief, probably by trading Kazmir or McCarthy (likely the former);
2 – They won’t trust a Kike/Johnson/Calhoun group effort at 2B
3 – They will probably obtain a 7th or 8th inning option for a set up role
4 – They may obtain another right-handed platoon bat
5 – They may try to trade an OF too, Ethier if he agrees and someone will take on some of his salary or perhaps Puig if they are fed up enough.
I am very glad to see them bring back Jansen and I for one am surprised that they have spent the money. I am less surprised to see Turner back in the fold. I have mixed feelings about Hill – yeah, he’s good when he pitches but that isn’t very often. I fear that he won’t be able to answer the call when he’s needed the most.
I am hopeful that some of the kids will take the next step forward -it will be especially important to see if Urias is ready to take that step.
Agree Passan is overly positive, but I like that kinda stuff.
Your link didn’t work, can you repost please?
Here you go:
http://www.si.com/mlb/2016/12/12/dodgers-sign-kenley-jansen-free-agent-contract
That is a good article, but how I’m not sure I’d call it balanced.
It doesn’t have much of a perspective, except to say the Jansen deal could work out, or it could not. There’s a nod to the luxury tax, but nothing about the farm system (which is a cost saver) or the money that comes off the books in a year or two.
I like it too. And that is precisely why I have been saying I think our best years start in 2018.
Everybody seems to think Jansen and Turner are taking less to resign is for convenience or wedding or whatever, I think it has to do with loyalty. Dancing with the one who brung em. Showing their team mates it’s not all about selfishness. I think they read what we say and respond how they want us to look at them, at least in these rare cases. Taking a cut should almost be required to be a Dodger because part of them is doing it for Dodgers fans. A good reason to cheer more for them. I don’t want any player who has Dodgers on their ‘no trade to clause’ in their contract. Don’t want any disgruntled poisoning.
There are more reasons to list a team on a no-trade than not wanting to play for them.
Chapman sure doesn’t want to play on the west coast.
Kenley has a much better attitude then Chapman.
What if it’s because he has family in Miami and doesn’t want a 3hr difference between him and his kid.
Quas
The Dodgers may have saved Kenley’s life, with finding that tumor on his foot.
And they saved his career, by converting him to a pitcher, and he has a house in LA too.
And Turner became the player he is today, on the Dodgers.
And it has to feel great to play for your home town team, especially with the Dodger’s tradition, and there money.
Freudy is at it again at Dodger Therapy:
https://dodgertherapy.wordpress.com/2016/12/09/a-pox-that-has-spread-across-the-southland/
A couple of sentiments shared by some here:
““Greinke was greedy!” “Kenley doesn’t deserve that!” “We got a bargain with Kazmir!” It’s a mental illness tide that has swept across Los Angeles like herpes, and where once Angelenos wore Fernando jerseys and rooted Garvey, Cey, Orel, Sax, Yeager, Gibson, etc., they now put their loyalties out to Friedman, his pet troll Farhan Zaidi, gym rat Gabe Kapler, Josh Byrnes, and their ilk.”
I don’t root for the management, but for the team. Some here are Friedman fans – he’s not wearing a uniform though.
“Turned to bickering, if you point this out, the Twitter trolls will attack. How dare you question the genius of giving $16M to Brent Anderson? You’re too naive to see why Brandon McCarthy was a far smarter signing than keeping Greinke. If you had half a brain, you’d know trading away Dee Gordon for closer of the future Chris Hatcher was a master stroke. Oh, you don’t see the value in signing and then paying Cubans to leave? You idiot! Kiké Hernández, Austin Barnes, Josh Ravin, Luis Avilan – oh, you’re too ignorant to see greatness!”
I am weary of some smug Braintrust fans who peer over their computer screens and down their noses at we ignorant few who haven’t appreciated most of the moves by this management team.
And the prospects – of course they will all be stars!
“Ok – in 2018 magic potion will sprinkle from the skies over Chavez Ravine and every prospect in the system will be a superstar. Payroll will be low, homegrown talent will rule Blue Heaven on Earth. Never will a prospect bust, or just be a bench player. In this utopia, every player under the age of 22 will be a superstar. Never mind Clayton Kershaw will have an opt out; never mind generally most prospects do not become superstars; never mind the clear majority of the prospects were handed to Friedman from Ned Colletti and Logan White. 2018 is the year.”
The Braintrust fanboys will hate this article and some will appreciate it. It was posted before the Dodgers resigned Jansen and Turner and so the team hasn’t gotten worse – it’s not better than before yet although I have hopes that the Braintrust will fill some of the holes before the season starts – it’s early yet.
He’s such a miserable little swine.
And that isn’t the half of it!!!
It’s my opinion Freudy is the best Dodger writer on the blogosphere.
He’s the Dodger blogger equivalent of Keith Olbermann, only less intelligent. The patterns of histrionic and inflammatory insufferableness are similar.
He cobbles together this overwrought, poorly written description of his own basket of deplorables that exist only in his mind, ascribes to them beliefs that don’t in fact exist (Who ever described Hatcher as the “closer of the future?”), calls them names and then presciently predicts that “Braintrust fanboys” will hate been characterized that way. Gee! Ya think?!
I’m not a fanboy. I’m not a FAZophant. I am generally supportive of what the front office is doing because I understand the process under which they’re operating and appreciate the sober and rational and deliberate approach to creating a sustainable dynasty, one not compromised by desperation, win-it-all-now-and-then-suck types of short term strategies. That doesn’t mean they don’t take missteps or are not above criticism. I just find a lot of the criticism by those obsessed with criticizing to be ill-informed, irrational, reflexive, not based on facts and often stupid. This guy’s blog post is but a glaring example.
So Badger, to this day, some fifteen years later you still want to wave the bloody shirt of perpetual martyrdom over being banned on Mark’s old site. How about this? I made ONE COMMENT on this guy’s blog and it was deleted and I was banned. How’s that for speaking truth to power? Oh, it was reposted after I reported about it here, so apparently he reads through the comments here. So, to whoever you are smarmy blogger guy, YOU’RE A HACK!
Oh..and I should point out your situational indignation about manners and tone, Badger. You make a fetish of criticizing Mark for calling people morons and being off his meds or accusing him of imbibing. But, this guys is the best Dodger blogger around? …with that non-stop vitriolic harangue of the other side? Hmmm. Cognitive Dissonance much?
Immediately coming right after me hey patch.
I’m an Olbermann fan. I too think he’s one of the smartest, most well informed writers I’ve ever seen on television.
I dont know about why you were banned and frankly I don’t care. Mark banned several people who were calling him on his bullshit. And it’s my opinion people who resort to name calling are undermining the level of discourse. They also lose any purchase they may be seeking in the debate. It’s my opinion he shows classic signs of bi-polar behavior. Many of his snarkiest, most destructive posts happen right after happy hour. Did you see his post the other night? I was embarrassed for him. You’ve seen his attacks on all who disagree with him, but he’s especially aggressive with me. He has been since I called him on his pro Iraq war and pro Bush take. That was over a decade ago. He’s never forgotten it, nor have I.
“Nonstop vitriolic harangue of the other side”? You say those who find fault in how FAZ has operated stupid. Pot. Kettle. I think maybe you don’t like Dodger Therapy because Freudy very articulately skewers the guys in whom you, box, and Timmons are heavily invested.
And I did not say Freudy was the best Dodger blogger around. You read that into it, I suspect because of your obvious personal biases against me. It’s my opinion of all those who write about the Dodgers on blogs, he is the best writer. There are other Dodger blogs I think have more technical baseball information, but I happen to appreciate his ability to turn a phrase.
I too have an appreciation of what it is these guys are trying to do. You see, I’m not stupid, I understand the process, I just don’t like many of their moves. Frankly I’m not a fan of platoon lineups nor do I like the injured and 5 inning starters that are on and off this roster. . I’m patient enough to wait and see what the team might look like in 2018. I want to believe Friedman and Zaidi are better than McCarthy, Latos, Anderson, Kazmir, Norris and the seemingly endless stream of players similar to them. I think they know better, and unlike Freudy, I think they will do better. But not yet.
You can have the last word on this.
No. I didn’t call individuals stupid. I described some of their criticisms as stupid. You’re smart enough to know the difference. I just think you’re being a little obtuse to make a point that isn’t valid. But that’s ok.
I’m heavily invested, as a Dodger fan, in the Dodgers doing well. For the front office to be successful means the Dodger team is successful. I will conditionally support them based on the credibility they had coming into the job and the credibility they maintain in the course fo doing it. I also understand and agree with the logic of many of their decisions, even if they don’t always pan out. I will do so until compelling evidence shows me that their approach isn’t working or they’re not up to the job. I haven’t seen that evidence, yet.
It is short-sighted and naive to criticize only the outcome of a decision if the outcome is, in part, influenced by uncontrollable events. To me, I would argue that many here and elsewhere are emotionally invested in their own negativity and visceral dislike of the front office. To them, the front office and the data-centric approach to running sports franchises frightens them. It represents change and their own aging and mortality. There is a certain cathartic power in complaining behind a keyboard about it.
I personally think you’re much more preoccupied with Mark than vice versa. Fifteen years is a long time to focus persistent dislike and negative energy towards someone. And why? Because you disagreed about politics? Does he push buttons? Are his gleeful prognostications about the Dodgers future unrealistically optimistic sometimes? Sure, but I don’t mind. Who doesn’t want to hear how great the Dodgers are going to be? …well…ok…the miserable Debbie Downers here. I take what he says as entertainment, sometimes really insightful and thought provoking, but entertainment, which is how I think you and the other MarkHaterz should take it as well.
Thanks for the info on 3B salaries. I forgot about Donaldson, Beltre, Sandoval and Wright. Donaldson, a MVP and batting champion and triple crown type guy deserves the $. Beltre does also because he is a HOFer and a tremendous run producer. Sandoval won at least one championship for the giants, maybe more. I think he might have been MVP of the all start game one year. Still, he is not deserving. How Turner fits into those 3, I’m not sure. He is not as good as Wright, but has more longevity. I think Wright was a batting champion. I can’t say that Turner is in the class of Donaldson or Beltre or Wright in his prime. Maybe Sandoval. Still, he is being paid a premium, I think. If the next 4 years are in the Beltre/Donaldson class, the $ may be worth it. I doubt if they will be. There was a “comfort” factor for both sides, which attached to it a lot of $.
Bobbie17
I am suprised that Donaldson is making that much.
Maybe the Bluejays gave him a raise after winning the MVP.
Because he was on the A’s before the Bluejays, and we know the A’s didn’t give him a raise.
People felt the same about Donaldson, that you feel about Turner, when Donaldson first started to shine.
And then he won that MVP.
He may not get much more then Turner, because he is another late bloomer.
Oh, I couldn’t disagree more. You don’t get more money for being part of a championship team, that’s just not how it works. You consider the past in giving contracts, but also the future.
Wright’s contract has been an albatross since he signed it, and that’s exactly the metaphor I’d use for Sandoval’s. Turner’s much better than both by almost every metric.
Also markets go up.
Turner’s deal is really phenomenal, we should be thankful the Dodgers have created an environment where both he and Jansen took such positive deals.
Bluto
We agree on this.
The Red Sox biggest problem when they signed the Panda, was that they were siging him, for what he did, in the post season..
I think the Panda only hit twenty plus HRs, once earlier in his career, if even then.
And his numbers have been going down every year.
He has never hit like Turner has, in the last three years.
Everybody gets more money for being part of a championship team. Some more than others, but winning is profitable. That’s why everyone tries to do it.
Wright’s contract an “albatross”? He’s put up 50 WAR as a Met. He’s never made more than $20M. He’s on a two year schneid, but hardly an albatross.
Markets do go up, as does the cost of WAR.
Turner’s deal does look great now. I sure hope he stays on the field. Now that Jansen is re-signed, please, no more 3 inning or 50 pitch outings.
Badger
Who do you think Rays Charles is?
It’s me, Melton
Hi Badger,
But he signed the deal in 2012, November. 2013 was a very strong year, and then production disappears. It’s an albatross, but if that word is too strong I apologize.
I just view it as an eight year deal at a high per year for one and one-third years of production.
Oops. I thought he signed long term in ’07.
From Baseball Reference:
2017 Contract Status: Signed thru 2020, 14 yrs/$192M (07-20) (details) [*]
Service Time (01/2017): 12.075, Free Agent: 2021 [*], Agents: ACES [*]
Maybe that info is misleading.
The contract he signed in 2012 was an extension, which may indicate why some sources have the 2007 contract is original year.
Got it. Thanks. My mistake.
Wright may still hit, if he’s healed. Even injured he never OPS+’d under 100.
In looking at his best years, and many other All Stars best years out there, the numbers are very consistent. His string of All Star years began at 23 and his last one was age 30. This constant is immutable. Of course there is the rare variable but the fact is signing players over the age of 30 almost guarantees diminishing returns. I’m quite sure Friedman is aware of this, thus the many high risk over 30 players that saturate our roster. It will be a few years before this is turned around.
I am prepared for all things, that is all players, to have past prime great years at the same time. I’m also prepared to wait this thing out.
Badger,
You said a ton there that went all over my head.
I just think the Wright deal is why you don’t give term (long contracts) to older players. I’m sure it seemed romantic to die-hard Met fans to give the face of the franchise a big deal to keep him on the team for a long term, but what’s that really worth?
Wright was 29 when he was extended. Turner is 32. Hill is 37. Kazmir 33. McCarthy 34 in July. Jansen is the only guy we signed that is still under 30.
Though some may accuse me of being stupid (not you) I do understand the dance steps here – remaining competitive while reducing payroll. I’ve mentioned the clarity of that several times. It’s easy for me to look back and say I think our best shots were when Greinke was here. It’s easy to say I don’t trade for Latos, and I don’t give up 3 top prospects for Hill. That’s not hindsight, I said it at the time. I didn’t believe Hill was a difference maker and I still don’t. But he’s here so I’m on board, hoping for the best.
The bottom line of my previous post is – we just have to get younger and more athletic. I believe we will. But not in ’17.
Perhaps the players themselves are taking a more bullish outlook on the future prospects of the team and want to be a part of it. Perhaps also, the hiring of Roberts created a very positive vibe in the clubhouse.
They gave a home town discount. Greinke didn’t. But Greinke doesn’t seem like a particularly warm and fuzzy guy. Cold…calculating..without affect or effection. Makes Mr. Spock seem like Richard Simmons.
Dodger patch
Are you saying Greinke is autistic?
Autistic? Nah. He was just SAD. But he says he’s over it now.
Maybe Aspergers disease(Syndrome)….I noticed it too
Maybe Aspergers disease(Syndrome)….I noticed (observed) it too
Actually, I have perfect vision
Perhaps. Every article I referenced said he suffered a social anxiety disorder. It’s more common than you might think.
Maybe. I really don’t know. I would speculate that he’s a little bit of an odd duck.
All Dodgers must make $16 million a year now. Turner, Kamir, Jansen.
Hawkeye
Hopefully Kazmir will make 16 million else where.
But we will probably be paying part of his salary.
DV mentioned tonight that they’re shopping him. Mentioned talking to Seattle.
Hawkeye
I think I have read that.
I guess considering some of the chances that other teams have taken with other pitchers, maybe Kazmir can be moved.
But between his quote condition, and his back ground, I will be happily, suprised, if Kazmir can be moved.
It is going to be exciting to watch the young pitchers come to there own, in the next two years.
They say the front office is only giving one year deals, to bullpen guys, and Blanton is going to get more this year, so I don’t think he will be signed again.
But I would be Leary if we signed Blanton again, especially the way we used him so much.
He didn’t look to good in that last series.
He did look good throughout the year though. He just didn’t look good against the best, Roberts just has to have to keep that in mind. Given his age I don’t think he’s going anywhere it would be an easy resign.
Melton
Maybe if that isn’t true what the press is saying about the front office, only giving out one year contracts.
We need to get a real set up guy this time.
Blanton wasn’t suppose to set up, but he did the job pretty well, and someone had to do it.
And Friedman can make up a pretty decent bullpen, on the cheap they say, so we will see.
It will be interesting to see what they do with Hatcher.
They already gave this guy a guaranteed contract, unbelievable.
The bullpen will be fine. With Kenley, Dayton, Liberatore, Avilan, Yimi, and the long list of kids knocking at the door the Dodgers will be fine.
If they can sign Holland or Ziegler, on a 1yr deal even the better.
I don’t care if they get Blanton back or not. He had a nice season that he most certainly won’t duplicate. He doesn’t belong in the 8th inning role. I think Dayton can handle it but if not there are plenty of young arms. I don’t think at his age and with his career that Blanton is guaranteed to get more than a one year contract.
Ziegler is the master of ground balls. He would be a nice addition to a pen full of power arms.
I think that last point is important.
The team seems to see high value in a variety of different looks and styles in the bullpen.
We’ve had a ton of bad 3rd baseman before Turner. Glad he’s back. Maybe we could take a couple our starters and turn them into long relievers. Seems to me if we’re going to keep guys like Brandon McCarthy they might be a pretty good relief pitchers. If we’re going to pay them we might as well play them. At least they can save some arms for later in the season
Melton
That is a good idea, and McCarthy may have good enough stuff to help in relief, but his attitude isn’t close to being what you need in a good relief pitcher.
I think it takes him sometime to warm up to.
But there are other starting pitchers we have, that probably can fill that role.
Remember the Dodgers use to have there young starting pitchers, start in the pen, when they first came up to the majors.
And the Cardinals
still do this.
We have a lot of options in the minors they say, so who knows.
McCarthy sure looked awful coming out of the pen in SF last year. I know it is only one appearance If he isn’t traded I think he holds down the #5 spot so they can showcase him and because Urias, CK, and Hill are all lefties.
Hawkeye
That sounds right to me!
Melton
You don’t like reading McCarthy’s tweets?
Just a thought, but is anyone else here tired of the Dodgers just being contenders? Is it too much to ask that they actually win a World Series? I read 3 story’s saying the Dodgers resigning Jansen and Turner makes them one of the top teams. I on the other hand see a ton of holes. The bull pen up to Jansen, 2nd base, and hitters who can actually hit LHP. I think they are more pretenders than contenders. I have no faith in the starters past Kershaw and not a whole lot of faith in the offense.
Good point. The Blue have done nothing in the postseason 4 straight season.
Here’s an article that makes the same point:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/dodgers-need-to-make-one-more-move-to-compete-with-cubs-012115506.html
Can only win a championship by making the playoffs. They keep doing that, and are positioned to keep doing it,
Early odds for playoffs and WS have us winning the West again. Cubs and Red Sox are favorites, of course. Then it’s Dodgers, Nats, Mets, giants. That will change as teams evolve and more money comes in. But, Vegas seems to like our plus 30 band-aid roster.
Then do it already or do we want a repeat of the ATL Braves of the 90’s and early 2000’s….
LOL. Stuff like this reminds me of this line in Superman 3…remember the one with Richard Pryor?
As if somehow winning the World Series is a piece of cake. Ask the Cubs and the Red Sox if it’s too much to ask to just win the World Series.
Any time you’re in the post season, truly anything can happen in such a short sample size. The more you get to the postseason, the better your odds of winning it all. It amazes me the people here who don’t comprehend that increasing likelihoods is not the same as guaranteeing outcomes.
Why does the bridesmaid always wear DodgerBlue???? Time to be the Bride!!! That wasfor you MJ!!!! The rest will settle for the crown!!!
Tim
You are right, every team wants to be the bride.
And the Dodgers want to be the bride, at least three more times, in the next few years.
And us fans, especially want to have that happen, so we can shut up all of those big mouth Giant fans, that don’t know how to act like they have been there before.
It’s good to see that you all have recovered from some positive news to be as negative as ever!
Good job!
You must be so proud!
VOMITING SOUNDS!
I see you haven’t changed one bit, same old narcissistic asshole – different day.
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? You really need some therapy. Normal people just don’t act like you do.
Brilliant response yet again. Proving my point once again. You got something deeply flawed in your mind, better deal with it before it consumes you. Damn, you are predictable.
It’s amazing that you follow me so close and only post when I do. Maybe you are not just a troll:
Maybe you are just a stalker:
Ya know Mark, you are an insufferable sot. Yes, resigning Jansen and Turner was great news. We are all happy. But anyone with eyeballs and the ability to read can see this roster is full of holes. We all hope they are not through retooling and it will be February before we know who is actually going to camp with the team. What has being proud got to do with the fact that they do NOT have an everyday 2nd baseman yet, the roster as constructed does not hit LHP worth a damn, and they are counting on the return of some sore armed pitchers to have a decent rotation? Predictions are worthless and mostly wrong anyway. The only vomiting sounds we hear is you spouting your high and mighty you peons know nothing rhetoric…..
Hyperbole!
We were within 2 games of the WS and we are full of holes?
I’m insufferable? All year last year, everyone bitched how about FAZ was and let me emphasize that it was a LYNCH MOB BITCHING! If our ACE had performed like an ACE, we might have been there, but he’s still my favorite player.
I don’t think the roster is “full of holes.” I think it’s full of opportunities, Will Kike hit .307 or .190 – you have a short memory. He was pretty good in 2015 at .307 and he was injured last year, had offseason surgery and his father had cancer. I think he’s worth a risk!
WE had the MOST injuries in baseball EVER last year and still almost won. I seriously doubt we will repeat that.
I might have said Moron but not Peon. You have no idea what I am all about. It’s that when you write stuff like “anyone with eyeballs and the ability to read can see this roster is full of holes” it rubs me the wrong way because we have the DEEPEST Farm System in baseball.
I disagree with that and so do my eyes… and unless you are psychic you cannot know if I am a sot… on the other hand, I don’t have to be psychic to see if someone is a moron. I just read what they write!
Have a wonderful day!
Disagree all you want you overblown ass. You head is so fat from all the BS you store up there that it is a wonder you can even type. I know Kike hit 307 and I also know he couldn’t hit crap last year. You trust him to be the everyday 2nd baseman? Fine, I think you are loony tunes, and I may not know what you are all about, and you know nothing about me, so on that point we are even. What I do know is you are so friggin full of yourself that you think anyone who has an opinion differing from you is an idiot. Me, I think you are beyond help. You are a self centered egotistical ass. PERIOD
I have no problem with disagreeing opinions. I do have problems with stupidity. You always start it with name calling and then ask innocent. I wish you were 30 years younger, so I could shut you up! I won’t fight with an old man…
Come on down Timmons any day. I am far from stupid and more than some hoser like you could ever handle…even at my advanced age. I am your worst nightmare dude.
What will you do if or when the Dodgers actually win the World Series? Will you find something to complain about?
“Yeah, they won. So what!! They did it with all of that saber nonsense…not like the real Dodger teams with Koufax and Drysdale!! ..and I still hate Grandal!”
Quite correct!
Irrational…
The only person on this thread who is irrational is you. You think everyone should agree with you and not have their own opinion. You base yours on what you see as the facts, I base mine on what I see with my eyes. And sorry if that offends you…too effen bad. Grandal still sucks……..
What I will do is enjoy it like I did all the others. The only thing I will say is it was a long time coming. I won’t complain a bit. But I will continue to complain and disagree that this team is that good until they prove other wise.
this is the most entertaining fan site I’ve ever come across. I’ve been late for work more than once reading and laughing why you guys stick daggers in each other
You want in on it? Just suggest that Mark might be wrong about something. He’ll feel “skewered” and skewer you right back. It’s especially entertaining around cocktail hour. Revenge. We’re gonna see a lot more of it in the coming days.
I’m looking forward to it
Mark
Who wants to hold the record of winning the west for four straight years, and not making it to the World Series, like the record that the Dodgers now hold?
And I am not even sure if it is just making the World Series, or winning the World Series.
You miss my point. I EXPECT the team to make the additional moves that they need to make. They haven’t made all of the moves yet but the season doesn’t start for 3 1/2 months.
If I add it up, 3 years of Hill, 4 years of Turner and 5 years of Jansen. That equals 12 player years for 3 pretty good players in the recent past. No guarantee of what they might do in the future but that 12 years total is for less money than Grienke’s 6 year contract. That is maybe a pretty good deal compared to what AZ did last year for Grienke?
Pretty Good Deal??? Try a GREAT DEAL!!!
Dodgers got the best starting pitcher in free-agency, a stud third-baseman (Also best 3rd baseman in free-agency), and a lights out closer (and the best closer in free-agency), All for $192M. Good job FAZ
AZ got 6 years of an aging, declining starting pitcher with Kazmir like production (if they are lucky) for $206M.
Yes but the Dodgers are a big market team, unlike Arizona.
And there is Kazmir, McCarthy, and the memories of Anderson.
But I am thrilled that they did the right thing !
Kenley’s wedding might need to be referred to as The Blue Wedding. His agent was on Sirius and said that this weekend Kenley did a complete pivot from get the best deal to get it done with the Dodgers. Katz said being around family and his teammates made it hard to process leaving the Dodgers and then Kenley told Katz to get it done with the Dodgers.
Exactly as LADR told you it played out. We know our stuff 🙂
Yes you do!!! You’re the best!! However, when your competition is Fraudy at Dodger Therapy that doesn’t say much!
Boxout
Oh I mean Ray, how are you doing today?
Where is your therapy pet, that Wondering gave you?
Wondung gave me a therapy pet??? You mean the picture of BAAAAger I use for a dart-board??? I guess that is sort of like therapy and much better than looking to Fraudy, the snake-oil salesman, for therapy.
Ray??????
I don’t see any therapy pet
Thank you Ray!! I know I can always count on you!!
Oscar you are right, Scott called it right!
I am just joking, you called it!
Boxout
I knew that was you!
Especially after you said, that bit about being in the barber shop.
But you got Wondering on that one, or he wouldn’t have been so polite to you.
MJ, your detective skills are lacking. While I can always count on Ray, I am not Ray!
You are right about Wondunging though, he is never polite to me.
Ray
You are not suppose to see your therapy pet, just feel him, with your best Braille!
Let me at em, just twirl me around and pour some bacon grease on him.
Hawkeye
Did you hear on Dodger talk, that Forsyth is suppose to be a better over all player, then Dozier?
Yes, he said a couple of GM’s thought that. I’ve got to be honest I haven’t seen enough of him to give a fully accurate opinion of him but he doesn’t excite me.
Whether it’s Dozier, Kinsler, or Forsythe the problem to me is that they don’t move Gonzalez down in the batting order. Don’t get me wrong they would be an upgrade to an even older Utley. The thing I liked about going after McCutchen is that he would push Gonzalez down in the batting order.
Hawkeye
I agree I am not that excited about them either, and especially with the prospects they are throwing out there.
But we do need that type of hitter, to lengthen our line up, and to hit lefties better.
And I don’t see any of those second baseman doing that.
So I can see McCutchen or Braun, being brought up.
I guess I just do not understand some of you. Two and one half great signings and you are still negative. Sure we have some holes, and so does every other team. Because we signed veterans now we are too old. I am convinced that if we had 5 starting pitchers like Kershaw, three outfielders like Babe Ruth, 4 infielders like Ty Cobb, two Catchers like Jonny Bench and 7 relief pitchers like Rivera, you would still bitch. Come on guys. They signed the best starting pitcher avaible, the best third baseman available, and one of the best relievers available. It seems like a pretty dam good job to me.
AMEN Idahoal!!! If FAZ put your proposed team together, around here they would be accused of being too cheap/small market for punting on DEPTH!!!!
Little over the top there Al. We had those guys and we would be the 27 Yankees over and over. They are not griping about the signings, although I think counting on Hill is a stretch, they are worried about the rest of the team. Of course we will not know who is on the roster until spring training starts, plus the non roster guys they always bring in. But there are holes and that is a fact and not an illusion. And until the holes are filled there will be questions. Not saying they have not done a good job there. Just there is plenty of work left to do. Especially since their rivals are improving too. Right now it seems to me we have pretty much the same team that fell short to the Cubbies last year.
For those who wanted Holland, Chisox just signed him to a one year $6MM contract. Personally I think we have players for RP inhouse although some may not agree which, of course, is your right.
Roster Resource lists out BP for 2017 as: Kenley, Baez, Dayton, Fields, Wood, Avalian and McCarthy. Liberatore, Ravin and Nuno at AAA.
What about Yimi Garcia? He should be healthy, and I do not see them having two long men in the pen…..Wood, McCarthy. Looking at that bunch I see no bridge to Jansen. Baez? Fields? Dayton? And I would keep Liberatore over Avilan.
They signed Derek Holland the starter.
At the risk of hearing for the next year, that all FAZ does is sign injured pitchers, I would love to see Dodgers sign Greg Holland to a cheap deal.
They will only do 1 year according to all reports. Not sure what Holland wants. But he might go for a Blanton like contract.
I just read that the Twins are asking especially for JDL
And in Dodger Blue, they said it would take Brock Stewart too.
I wouldn’t want Dozier if we were going to have to give up either Stewart and JDL, let alone both.
I agree with Mark that Dozier is a scary guy to bet on, and he is 29, so he is getting past his prime right now.
What is Dodger Blue? Is it another Dodger blog? Do they get good info?
I’m not a huge fan of JDL, but I wonder if this could be a three team deal.
same type of page as Dodger nation. They give news and rumors and invite comments.
Bluto
Are you judging JDL on what he did at the major league level last year?
No, that’s too small of a sample size.
Mostly on what I’ve read from scouts and reporters.
I’m also guilty of reading between the lines from last year. The team went with Stewart/Stripling/Urias when it came to filling a SP spot on the 40 last year.
To be fair 29 and 30 are your prime years. Two years of control on An extremely friendly team contract for a guy who hit 42 Hr’s is going to cost at least one of those guys + more.
I agree. Some players do really well beyond that and some have solid careers from the get go. But a 29 year old should be pretty solid for the next 2 years. And nobody knows how those kids will fare in their MLB careers. And do you really want Kike Hernandez at 2nd as your regular starter? Not me.
The evidence on prime years is clearly NOT 29-30. It’s 25-29.
Depends on the player more than some prognosticators idea of when it happens. Turner could not be used as a model since he was 30 before he really showed up.
Hawkeye
Someone said that 26 to 29 was a players problem prime.
I thought that maybe a players prime years have went down, because most players are not taking steroids anymore, because the tests have been better.
And if Dozier is 29 now, won’t he be thirty next year?
30 on May 15th. Plenty young.
Who would you trade? It takes quality to get quality. And the FO likes this guy a lot. Twins are not going to just give him away for a second tier prospect, so it will take at least one of those guys and maybe a couple of lower tier guys to get him. They are not going to want McCarthy or Kazmir.
Michael
I really don’t want Dozier.
Fox reports that is who the Twins want most, but the Dodgers do not seem to be inclined to include him in a trade.
Dodger nation reports the Dodgers and Twins are talking about Dozier, but mentions no names as trade bait. MJ, 29 means he is coming into his prime. Most ball players reach that from 27-30. Peak performances follow. Turner at 32 is actually right about his productive peak. Of course you use PEDs like Bonds and you improve at age 37. I do not believe Dozier, if traded to the Dodgers, will even come close to 40 homers.
Michael
On a show on the MLB Channel, a guy said a players prime is 26 to 29, but if it is 27 to 30, wouldn’t he be at the end of his prime next year, when he turns 30?
Not necessarily. Each player is different. Turner did not come into his own until he was 30. Jackie Robinson and Maury Wills were rookies when they were 29. Some guys blossom early and some much later. And just because he turns 30 it does not mean he will suddenly become a bum. It took Koufax 5 years to finally become the HOF pitcher he was. He retired when he was 32 because of the arthritis in his elbow. That is why I think people forget that some of these players have a lot of pride in what they do. Guys like Gonzo, the ultimate pro, and Utley, who really rebounded from 2 awful years, comeback the way they do. I believe because of how professional he is, Gonzalez is going to have a great year. Why? Because the guy takes pride in his ability to be the load carrier on this team. Will he hit 30 homers again? Maybe, but I believe he is perfectly capable of 25 and more than 100 RBI’s. His slow start denied him of those numbers last year. But he came close.
Peak performance by most measurable standards is before 30. If you look at most of the best performers in the game, they start hitting their stride in their mid 20’s and start trending down at 30. Yes, of course many are still productive into their 30’s, but PEAK for nearly ALL of them is before 30.
Like I said Badger, it depends on the player. Some have one good season and disappear totally. But for the most part that is probably accurate.
You cannot put all players in a box and say that from say 25-30 they are going to be at their peak. There have been too many contradictions to that formula.
No box Michael. Those who may actually have BETTER years after the age of 30 are outliers.
Younger. More athletic.
Though I suppose one could say after Utley and Kendrick, 30 is younger and more athletic.
I read somewhere that Northern European males don’t totally physically mature until around 27 yrs. old, whereas other folks are totally physically mature at 18 or 19. I think it was an article about the NFL draft before it wasn’t politically correct to say those sort of things
Ray
Are you sure you are not Al Campanis?
Michael
I don’t think he will hit forty here either.
And I don’t like that it took him five years in the majors, before he was able to hit above 250, and that was only last year.
And I don’t think he will adjust fast, to all the new pitchers, in the National League.
He might be a late bloomer you never know. After all Justin was 30 before he made an impact and was 31 when he became a starter. You never know. Dozier might adjust to the NL style of play with no sweat. Only time will tell. If he is traded we will have to wait and see how it all plays out. The same can be said about the other guy they are pursuing, Logan Forsythe. He is a career AL guy, so maybe his numbers will not translate to the NL game. Way around that is try and trade for Villar. But they would probably have to trade for Braun and give up a ton to get that guy. AJ, there are a lot of players who play their entire career and never smell .250. Grandal’s career BA is .241…..
Michael
We don’t need another hitter like that, that will also, strike out a lot.
Grandal and Joc are enough!
We need a more complete hitter, if we are going to give up, two of our best pitching prospects.
We need a player that makes our offense more productive, and also hits lefties well.
MJ, you never know what a player is going to do year to year. There are no guarantees that either of those pitchers has a productive career. Dozier is a proven major league hitter. He also might benefit from a different hitting coach. Example, look what happened after Ozzie Smith left SD and was traded to StL. Before then he had never hit much above the Mendoza line. Look at the bright side, the guy does hit LH pretty well and he has power. That is something they have not had at that position since Jeff Kent left. And he is a decent defender. I would rather have him than Kinsler. And he is only owed 14 million over the next 2 years so he fits into the Dodger budget, whereas trading for Kinsler means an extension for the guy. The alternatives at this time are not all that appealing. I would bet you that Joc improves a lot this year. 3rd season in the bigs. He is finally getting it. Grandal is a lost cause. He will always be a strikeout hitter. Especially from the left side.
Exe Dodgers finding new homes. Logan Shafer who turned from being a OF to a pitcher and was at OKC and Tulsa signed. Dustin McGowan and Zack Lee have new addresses too.
Jordan Schafer.
Wondering
Where are you?
We need someone to instigate a little trouble here, or to give some words, of wisdom!
Thanks for asking. I had a 9AM Doctor’s appt for a cortisone shot. Then I had to drive to the Post Office to pick up 2 weeks of mail, followed by a trip to the market, a trip to Home Depot, a stop at WalMart and Subway for meatball sandwiches for me and my nephew, and finally to his house to deliver his sandwich and some groceries I picked up for him. Got home about 1 O’clock, put groceries away, changed back into pajamas and house slippers, and finally had breakfast. Don’t know why it took so long… I don’t go out more than once or twice a month, so I do all the errands I have stacked up at one time. Lazy is efficient.
Wondering
That was nice that you did that for your nephew.
You sound like me, with your mail, and I only have to go out on the other side of my home, to pick it up.
Me and my dog, or is it, my dog and I? , went out to a couple of stores to pick up some things to, but he stays in the car, unlike that fu fu.
Do the cortisone shots work? And how long do they last? also, what are you treating? I know it’s none of my business but I’ve been getting PRP treatment on my lower back. Ins. doesn’t cover it and it costs $$$
What is PRP?
Platelet rich plasma
Arthritic type knees and shoulders… The first time I got one, I could really tell it helped. After a while, they don’t seem to work as well. problem is, how bad would it be if I quit taking them? I don’t want to find out. One shot every 90 days. They don’t hurt.
I climbed two 14ers and two near 14ers after I turned 60 and paid for it. My knees got ground down. I did some PRP injections, and the VA did two Synvisc injections and it helped. I only do short hikes now, an hour to ninety minutes and am able to avoid the serious pain. I have rotary cuff issues so my weight lifting is restricted to light weights. Not benching 200 anymore. Arthritis beginning in my hands. I believe being a vegetarian for 46 years has helped me. I feel lucky. So many are worse off than me.
Dozier has only 4 full major league seasons under his belt. His numbers:
2013 – .244/.312/.414/.726, 18 HR
2014 – .242/.345/.416/.762, 23 HR
2015 – .236/.301/.444/.751, 28 HR
2016 – .268/.340/.546/.886, 42 HR
Even if 2016 is an outlier, he looks to be a .750 OPS middle infielder (which is very solid) who will hit about 25 HR. His numbers have been on the ascendancy since he started. He is currently 29 and under team control for 2 more seasons so it is very unlikely that he will start a big decline before he is 31.
Dozier or Forsythe would be solid additions. Just comes down to how FAZ values DeLeon and other prospect pitchers the other teams are surely asking for. If FAZ sees DeLeon or the other prospect pitchers as potential #1’s or #2’s, I pass. Better to try, in house options, or less expensive trade options.
How about Phillips for Ethier? Both salaries about equal on one year remaining contract. It does look like Phillips’ fielding took a huge downturn last season.
I’d do that but the Dodgers would need Ethier’s OK. It would be for just one year and we would be looking at the need to do something about 2B again next year, but the market could be different and the Dodgers might have a better idea about whether Kike, Calhoun or Johnson might actually be able to play major league quality 2B.
Both guys would have to approve it. Phillips has a no-trade clause. Don’t think he helps improve the team much though unless moving Ethier allows for a run at Cutch. No way Ethier approves the deal though.
Boxout
That sounds a lot better, because we don’t want to give away, any more of our young pitching prospects, for a two year rental at second.
We already tried that.
We did that once, and that was enough.
Rick
We are going to trade away two of our best pitching prospects, for a player that will only be a two year rental.
And Dozier, doesn’t have a much better lifetime OPS then Howie, if he even does.
Howie’s OPS last year, was under 750, but the year before, he was right there, with a OPS at 750, when he was playing everyday.
And I know Howie doesn’t have that power, but there OPS’ are almost the same.
Sorry I don’t think two years of Dozier, is worth two 25 year old top, pitching prospects.
I dont do it.
And why would Ethier ok a deal to the Midwest? He’s a coastal cosmopolitan guy.
I am willing to bet Dozier just had his career year. He’s an everyday guy, and probably better than anyone we have, but not worth a mid rotation starter.
Kiké Hernandez – 2B. .250/.325/.400 – 16 HR 68 RBI. You traded for him. Give him a job or send him someplace he can play.
Badger
I was thinking we are going to need JDL, and Stewart this year.
We don’t know what is going to happen to Kazmir, McCarthy, and even Hill, because of his blister problems.
It seems if talent projections are right, that JDL and Stewart, will be pitching in our rotation this year, and will be in the rotation, in years to come.
We have to still see what we have.
And two years for Dozier, is not enough.
I am more worried about his arm problems from the past than his blisters.
Ethier is not going to waive his no-trade to go to Minnesota. Not a snowballs chance in Hell. He would waive it for maybe Az and the Angels. But no way he wants to be a Twinkie. And the Twins are rebuilding, why would they want Andre. As for Hernandez, he is a sub and that is it. I do not believe Kike would hit that many dingers, and if they are going to stay in-house, give it to the kid. Calhoun.
The trade was Ethier going to Cincinnati for Brandon Phillips. Reds are supposedly looking for left-handed hitting outfielders and we know the Dodger need at 2nd.
Why would Ethier waive his no trade to Cincinnati? Because he better go somewhere he can play everyday to influence his next contract. At best he is a platoon outfielder in LA.
Trading both of those kids is pure speculation and no where I have read says that is what the Twins want. Both teams are in discussions about a trade, but no mention of who goes where.
Michael
It is in Dodger Blue.
It is under trade rumors, LA is reluctant to trade JDL.
And Dodger Nation does a good analysis on Dozier, and they mention JDL and Stewart, and even another trade idea.
Dozier being 29 and refusing to void his no trade clause could be turned into an advantage for the Dodgers. If we offered him a two year extension, that would mean we had him 4 years and the contract runs out when he’s 33. I don’t know the player, so I’m not saying to get him, but if we do, the extension at his age could work out perfectly for us.
Stevie
Sorry I wrote you some words, but I forgot to put them in Braille for you.
Hey, if you see Ray Charles, tell him I posted a couple of links in yesterday’s comments that will tell him how to change his User Name, although it can be just as easy as backspacing your name out in the comments box and tying in a new one. Note my name now:
And I’d bet there are people on here who don’t recognize the name, W C Handy, the composer of the great St. Louis Blues…
Wondering
What era is that from?
Ray Charles can see that!
Dozier doesn’t have a no trade clause. Kinsler does though.
I still think that Kike can play 2B. He had offseason surgery, then was injured and had his dad fighting and winning cancer. Those of you who bash Kike totally ignore .307 the year before. What happened last year? Surgery, cancer, injury. He is a baller and deserves a chance. Badger has it about right: Kiké Hernandez – 2B. .250/.325/.400 – 16 HR 68 RBI In the #8 spot, that would be nice.
I would rather get a proven RH Masher who owns lefties. That would be Ryan Braun. Not Dozier. I think FAZ has shown they are trying to win NOW while building the deepest farms system in baseball. How about this: McCarthy or Kazmir (Milwaukee chooses). Puig, Calhoun, Toles and Stewart for Villar and Braun? I would throw in Lux if I had to. (Lux and Stewart are almost locals)
Lineup vs. LHP:
1. Villar 2B
2. Seager SS
3. Braun LF
4. Turner 3B
5. Ruf 1B
6. SVS RF
7. Grandal C
8. Hernandez 2B
Lineup against RHP:
1. Villar 2B
2. Seager SS
3. Braun LF
4. Turner 3B
5. A-Gon 1B
6. Ethier RF
7. Grandal C
8. Johnson 2B
Mark, if you are going to use a severe shift you will need faster outfielders, otherwise you should give up on your shift and go with 3 outfielders.
I forgot Pederson. I guess I am a moron.
Here’s what I meant:
Lineup vs. LHP:
1. Villar 2B
2. Seager SS
3. Braun LF
4. Turner 3B
5. Ruf 1B
6. SVS RF
7. Grandal C
8. Pederson CF
Lineup against RHP:
1. Villar 2B
2. Seager SS
3. Braun LF
4. Turner 3B
5. A-Gon 1B
6. Ethier RF
7. Grandal C
8. Pederson CF
Mark
The Brewers have talked like Villar is there Franchise player.
And I rather see Calhoun play second, at least they think his bat in major league ready.
And with all of these shifts, a player doesn’t have to be that quick laterally.
Johnson has defensive problems too, and he didn’t hit when the White Sox gave him second, at the major league level.
I rather keep Toles and Stewart.
And the Brewers talked like Villar will be there shortstop next year.
MJ has a different take than I do, but I don’t call her a moron. She is entitled to it, even if I totally disagree.
See, it’s ok to disagree… just don’t be disagreeable.
Mark
I just like Toles and Stewart.
But I know we need someone that can hit like Braun, so I might like a different trade for Braun.
Calhoun nor Johnson will play before Utley comes backnext year.
I might do that. At least it’s not our top prospects. If the organization is done with Puig, this could be their opportunity. Braun isn’t younger and more athletic but he’s still thumping. He may be a guy that could be moved to the AL later.
Maybe throw some $ their way instead of Lux, but he’s several years away so, what the heck, they may love the guy. Braun and Villar make us better.
Here’s a couple rumors from today. One was the Twins taking McCarthy in the deal in order to get better prospects. The other said that the Twins liked Buehler more than JDL.
I do not trade Buehler.
I hope I spelled that right or I will get a bad grade.
I agree 100%. I hate hearing about Alvarez being mentioned. I envision a future staff of
Kershaw
Urias
DeLeon
Buehler
Alvarez
And that rotation, with a powerful bullpen, Seager, Bellinger, Pederson, Calhoun and Verdugo anchoring the middle of the lineup, the controlled payroll costs will allow the Dodgers to compete in the incredible free agent class of 2018. And there will still be a crop of good to very good prospects stacked in the minors.
To infinity and beyond!
Wait, maybe somebody already used that.
‘Tis the season…
“There was actual substance to their approach: go piecemeal for a short while until the development system in which they have invested as much as any team turns into a talent spigot that won’t stop.” Jeff Passan Dec 13
And what have I been saying for the past year and a half. Go piecemeal. McCarthy, Anderson, Latos, Tepesch, Norris, and gag on and puke forth – piecemeal until the development system in which they have invested as much as any team turns into a talent spigot that won’t stop. And how long will piecemeal last? Another year for sure.
Yep, Jeff sees it exactly as I do. Hope he’s right.
Yes, but what does $5.38.com say? We await with baited breath…
You know why Silver chose the name 538?
Electoral votes.
What? You and Passan see “actual substance” (value) in FAZ’s approach? I hadn’t realized that’s what you have been saying since I got on this board. Don’t know where I got the impression you weren’t happy with the FAZmasters.
You’ve also been saying “Go Piecemeal”? I must of missed that also! Where did I ever get the idea that you wanted FAZ to spend ALL of Guggs billions signing all the top talent? That it wasn’t Guggs money but the fan’s money? To hell with the luxury tax, after all it’s just another desired tax writeoff! You mean sometimes even billionaires have their limits and must choose between multiple expensive options instead of signing all?
Well anyways, Thanks for clearing all this up for me!
Here’s my thinking on why I trade for Braun and Villar:
I know that Milwaukee values him highly, so we would really have to over pay, but with him at the top of the lineup, the team would have a totally different look.
McCarthy (and we pay his salary)
Puig
Hernandez or Johnson
Calhoun
Toles
Stewart
Lux
Maybe even Sheffield and/or De Jong
Milwaukee is 2 or 3 years away, so stack them with prospects. Get rid of Braun’s salary. Toles could be a very good player, but we have too many lefties. Ethier will be gone after this year and Verdugo is also LH (so is JOC) so Toles is expendable. Stewart and Lux are almost locals for Milwaukee.
I just don’t know if the Brewers would think that was enough. With Villar and Braun, the Dodgers could compete with anyone. I’d keep upping the offer…
I don’t approve. I’ll go Puig and a broken pitcher, maybe a low prospect, for Braun. But I’d rather get Solarte (cheaply) than blow a bunch of prospects on Villar.
Villar is the clincher for me. Younger. More athletic. He alone would cost at least 2 prospects. Puig should have value. McCarthy doesn’t. So we have to add to the offer.
Wondering
I am with you!
I just think Solarte would be so much cheaper, and he will probably be better, on the Dodgers.
He also is one of those players, that keeps an offense going.
I know we have a lot of leftie hitters, but most hitters, hit right handed, so we don’t have to go for that next right hand bat.
And I don’t want to have these entire platoon line ups, next year
Those platoon line ups of part time players, or AAAA players, didn’t work last year.
And I rather have an everyday player getting at bats, then some part time player, that isn’t getting many at bats.
Like I have said before, maybe put a couple of these part time players in against a tough leftie, or to give a day off, but don’t have a full line up of part time players.
They were just terrible last year.
And you don’t want that platoon line up playing against lefties, in the postseason.
And you want your everyday line up, ready to face a leftie in the post season, so let them hit against lefties, most of the season.
Wondering
And if we just get Braun, we don’t need another bat, at second, that badly.
Braun and Villar would certainly be welcome additions to the Dodger roster. They would plug most of the “holes” mentioned around here.
However, I think Mark’s trade proposal is too high of a price, especially when you include De Jong. But, what do I or anyone else here really know. What is the internal scouting reports on the players you are offering? If Stewart and De Jong are highly rated, they are too big of price for Villar. I say this after looking at what Seattle got for Taijuan Walker. Walker (24 yrs old) has a total of 357 IP of 4.18 ERA ML baseball. He was the headliner for Segura, who I would have preferred over Villar.
Segura, 26 yrs old, .319 BA, 33 SB, 5.6 WAR
Villar, 25 yrs old, .285 BA, 62 SB, 3.9 WAR
I know TODAY Stewart and De Jong are still viewed as prospects. This time next year with a few innings of MLB pitching under their belts, demonstrating Walker upside, and their value could be off the charts. Again I don’t know (or anyone else here) how high these pitchers are rated by FAZ, but, I think I would much rather trade Alex Wood (25 yrs old) with his 499 IP of 3.35 ERA ML baseball instead of Stewart and De Jong. Based on the Walker trade, Some GM’s must believe good, young, controllable MLB pitching is more important than good hitting infielders.
How about:
Puig, Kazmir or McCarthy, and Avilan for Braun.
Wood, and one of Hernandez/Johnson/Calhoun for Villar.
Boxout
I agree with you.
I know Stewart was the Dodgers minor league pitcher of the year, last year.
And he hasn’t been pitching that long
He throws the ball, a lot like the older major league pitchers use to do.
Even Vinny liked the way Stewart threw the ball.
He really improved in the majors last year too.
Braun isn’t worth that much, and Villar hasn’t played in the majors that long, has he?
Boxout
We really don’t have a true place for Wood either.
I gotta wait on Toles because of his speed…ST will be good test for him… I’m really bummed that year after year we have no speed on top of the order…
Trade JDL – Yes
Trade Buehler – No … He will fly thru the system…
A big bat in the wings???
ST will be absolutely crazy in 17…
The Brewers have several highly rated prospects that are outfielders so offering Puig and Toles doesn’t match up with their needs. http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=mil
I don’t see anybody in the Brewers organization that could replace Villar and the Dodgers don’t have a shortstop to offer in a trade. There would have to be a third team involved that had a shortstop to replace Villar. When I make my crazy trade proposals, I look at things like that.
I would let it be known that Grandal, Verdugo, Hernandez, Calhoun and obviously McCarthy and Kazmir were available in exchange for a young, fast, controllable, second baseman that plays great defense and hits from the right side.
Chris Taylor best fits this scenario: young, fast, controllable, second baseman that plays great defense and hits from the right side. He doesn’t cost anything either as he already on the 40 man roster.
RF Puig/Ethier
CF Pederson/SVS
SS Seager/Culbertson
3B Turner/Hernandez
1B Gonzales/Ruh
LF Thompson/Toles
C Grandal/Barnes
2B Taylor/Calhoun
Wow. A platoon for every position. We’ve been BumFAZled.
Badger
Just say No to platoons!
Just showing depth. I would hope for much less platooning next year. Also, those players add up to 16 and no team will go with 16 position players.
I do like Puig in the lead off spot though.
BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR……….snow is coming!
Michael
I couldn’t see the very end of your remark, and until I made my screen big enough, I had no idea what you were talking about.
It is supposed to snow Sunday and Monday. First real snow storm of the season….
It brings out the kid in you, at least for a day!
When I was a kid, my joints did not ache so much when it got cold! LOL
I am very reluctant to trade good minor league pitchers for a 2B. If that’s what it takes, use what we have. I still can’t figure out Kendrick.
Bobbie 17
You know what, I didn’t agree with you about Howie, but once I looked up Dozier’s stats, and Doziers’s OPS, isn’t much better then Howie’s.
And Howie probably has better lifetime stats, since he has played in the majors longer, and he doesn’t have the same power.
And I am talking about Dozier’s stats, before this last year.
Baseball is a business just like any other business. I would not do some of these deals especially the one with the twins for Dozier, business is all about Bi-Lo sell High. Right now they would be buying High and potentially selling low with some of their minor league prospects. guys like jdl and Buehler and Calhoun etcetera etcetera. These guys are the cream of our crop and it took a while
Ray Charles, you want to look back on yesterday’s comments? I posted a couple of links on how to change your user name…
Yes and I appreciate it. Thank you very much. I’m trying to figure out what my name should be that wouldn’t draw too much Flack. Not really an identity crisis just that there’s a few people that are pretty harsh I’m not up to being reactive
Yes, there are some overly aggressive posters here. Some suggestions:
Don’t use your real name
Favorite player; historical character you admire; an attitude or emotion you want to exhibit; just a word, like WingNut or something… When you select a name, I can give you some ideas on an Avatar if you like.
You are probably referring to me and Timmons right now. I pretty much am through bantering with the guy. I tried to be nice, but he just kept on and then earlier said he wished I was 30 years younger so he could shut me up. To me, that is the last straw. Normally I am pretty laid back, but he knows how to push my buttons. As for using my real name, well I am not afraid to do that. On different sites I use pen names per se. I am sorry if it bleeds over a little. But as far as I am concerned it is over.
I can’t believe he was referring to you, Michael. I can think of three that are pretty bad, and a couple of borderline types. You don’t even make the top ten. Your image is that of a fuzzy teddy bear. Just hold yourself above the loudmouths.
You should be afraid of using your own name, even if your record is as pure as the driven Colorado snow. People can still use your name to hurt you. They could sign up to other blogs using your name and seriously damage your reputation. Just select the real name of someone you don’t like here, add city or state if known, and Google the results.
I use my nick name on some sites. As for my reputation they can try. Those who really know me know better and I have never been one to give a crap what people think of me anyway. Gossip is just that. I am way above all that. But the one thing I freely admit is that I have a temper. For the most part I can control it. Learned to do that a long time ago. But I have a tipping point and I know that too. I try to avoid it, but sometimes it is just impossible.
Even Ray Charles can see this.
Yes, if he wants to, I suppose. And I wonder who you are? Have I created a monster here??? Nah, the Internet is for people to have fun with, enjoy. It’s safer than drugs, alcohol, and sex….
Ray
Those are some very good and wise points that you made, and I agree!
That Ray is one of the smartest posters on this board!!!
If you are Ray, Catbox, please remember that I am treating you in a fair and helpful manner. You get back what you give.
Wonder
Ray took on some different souls yesterday, and I made differen’t!
Most of you seem like really good guys, and the blogs I guess they call them are very informative. As a matter of fact I can just go to this site read all the latest info and just tap on the links you guys provide. I don’t need to search all over the internet . I am new. I live in Southern California I’m over 60 and I’ve been a Dodger fan for life.
Hey MJ, it was after the Campanis incident but it did have to do with drafting big gangly white guys 4 linemen
Ray
That is what that reminded me of.
Ray
You sure sound like you fit here.
Everyone here, are mostly just a little younger, and just a little older then you.
But there is people here, right at your age too.
You get back what you give.
Words to live by. Don’t skewer me and I won’t skewer you!
I’ll keep this under consideration
I like the trade scenerio Mark suggested. MJ said Braun is not worth that much. I disagree:
Lifetime Braun has the 2nd HIGHEST OPS(1.028) just behind Goldy(1.038) since 2007 vs LHP.
Lifetime: .336 BA. At Dodger Stadium: BA-.346; OBP-.419; Slug.-.644; OPS-1.063.
BTW: 1.014 at AT&T Park.
What’s not to like?
On Villar: Vs LHP this year: .309 BA; OPS-.930. SB-62/18(16/1 vs LHP)
If you want quality you have to give up quality.
You could be right, but that’s a high price. Oh well, FAZ will make that call, I don’t have to worry about it…
High price? Yes it is but the last time I looked at our top 30 prospects, 20 were OF and Pitchers. Certainly we can afford to trade some of them because they all won’t make it and STAY on our 25 man future roster.
It was not too long ago that Zach Lee was our #1 prospect. How did that turn out? It’s a crap shoot and sometimes you get burned, many times you don’t.
Somewhere above Badger mentioned Seager, Bellinger, Pederson, Calhoun and Verdugo as anchoring the middle of our lineup. I’m sure he realizes they are all LHB’s. Isn’t that what we are trying to fix?
Our lineup is LHB heavy and the Brewers are RHB heavy. Seems to me there is a fit between the two teams.
Richie
The Dodgers have a better farm system then the Brewers.
Why would we want to trade prospects with them?
Well let’s see. The Brewers are looking to dump salary and strengthen their minors to be competitive in a couple of years. The Dodgers are ‘willing to take on salary while trading prospects to improve the team for 2017?’
Square peg in a round hole? Per the FAZophants, at least 1 week ago the Dodgers were looking to decrease payroll and not trade prospects. Has that changed?
The FAZophants support whatever it is this management team does today. Doesn’t matter what it is, it could be Sandoval and Sabathia and they would cheer.
I just want guys who can hit, run, field, throw, throw with power (bullpen) throw with stamina (starters, 7 innings) and draw crowds (me driving 100 miles to see an exciting team). I don’t care if all 8 are left handed hitters if they all hit like Rod Carew or George Brett. Better yet, give me 8 Mickey Mantles. He only made $100,000 and in today’s dollars that’s $744,000 so you’d actually be keeping payroll down. FAZophants should love that.
Richie
Braun has some things going against him.
He was caught for doing steroids, and has had problems with one of his wrists, that affected his hitting for a season or two.
And he is only getting older.
He still has a lot of money left on his contract.
I can see a different deal for Braun, and if we get Braun, there
is no need for Villar.
MJ: I never said trade our prospects for their prospects. I don’t card what Braun has done in the past. It’s what he does on the baseball field that interests me.
Hasn’t Kiki and Ravin and others had problems too?
Braun’s comtract isn’t so much if you subtract McCarthy’s or Kazmir’s salary + Puig’s also.
If you remember a deal was almost completed for Braun with Puig and McCarthy + 2 unnamed minor leaguers with the first agreed upon. The sticking point was the 2nd minor leaguer, then time ran out.
Richie
I thought you were in on those prospects.
Getting rid of one of those pitchers, would be another plus.
I know you said you were not concerned with his past.
But he did have problems with his wrist, or the nerve of his wrist, and I don’t know what happened with that.
I don’t want to get Villar because he would cost to much, and we won’t need his bat, if we get Braun.
Have you looked at Villar’s minor league stats?
He has never had that kind of power, before last year.
MJ:
I was never in on any Brewer prospects. I don’t know where you got that from.
I didn’t know Braun had a wrist injury. If he did it must have been a while back because it certainly both him THIS year.
I’m not really concerned about Villar’s power. I just mentioned it because it was a plus. In Dodger Stadium his 19 HR would translate to half or less. It’s his speed and base stealing ability that intrigues me.
I don’t put much stock in minor league stats. There are some who have terrible stats in the minors and do much better in the majors.
There are others that the reverse is true. Remember Tim Fedowitz? He had good numbers in the minors and was an automatic out in the majors.
Badger
Have you looked at Villars minor league stats?
Nope. Just his big league stats.
Putting all our petty battles to the side, u just read Craig Sager passed away.
He was a one of a kind. Never heard a bad word from him or about him.
100% class act.
We should all try to be a bit like him.
We could try, but likely fall short. RIP
Sorry I never heard of him. East coast bias maybe? I’ll look him up though.
If you watch the NBA regularly, you’d know him.
He also used to do sideline/field work for MLB, I believe.
Thanks Bluto. I don’t watch basketball. Too small. Once a long long time ago I did see Nate Archibald dribble a ball between Wilt Chamberlain’s legs though. I think NA was only 5’7″ not sure.
I don’t watch golf either. Too boring. Hit a little ball and walk after it?? What’s the sense to that? Why bother. Just go straight to the 19th hole.
I am missing a few pieces of the wardrobe to be a bit like him.
I think we’re coming up with trade scenarios prematurely. If we get a few months into the season people might start looking at our access starting pitchers and we can get what we want without selling the farm. And dump some of what we’re calling junk. One man’s junk is another man’s treasure with a little patience maybe we have someone else’s treasure
Ray
If we do wait on Kazmir and McCarthy, what will happen if they don’t pitch well?
They haven’t been pitchers you can rely on.
What if they do pitch well?
If they don’t the kids can pitch, would be the thinking I presume.
Not sure I agree, but it would be an upside play as their value can’t be much lower than it is now.
That’s about right. We could always look ahead to 2018. Kazmir and McCarthey will be pitching lights out for their next contract and we can get a good price for them in July…. But I won’t hold my breath.
They may show brief signs of life. But I doubt it will last long.
Are saves overrated? Or maybe underrated.
http://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-news-kenley-jansen-five-year-contract-zips-projections/2016/12/14/
Not a lot of WAR for $80 million.
Hopefully, Saves begin to matter less and less as key relievers are used in high-leverage situations irrespective of what inning it is.
I agree with that Bluto. Blow away the middle of the order in the 7th or 8th, get the Hold and allow somebody else the Save.
I have an issue with WAR anyway. Doesn’t it depend upon how good or bad the replacement is? It doesn’t? Then it should. I’m not a fan or ERA either but I fully explained that months ago.
This is what a replacement player looks like
I see Killary put on some weight.
She also grew a 1″ penis.
There was only one candidate that brought that into the election.
That is a sure sign of displacement.
Demagogue-in-chief MJ. Self promotion is the only real talent he possesses.
I know
The point I was trying to make is that as the season progresses our pitchers will become more valuable, they will show some upside. And then maybe we can trade known quantities. I remember a long time ago when we needed a second baseman and we sent this kid named Pedro and received a lifetime 268 hitter name Delino. Would rather hang on to the kids. Whatever happened to you need a pitcher and I need a second baseman. Everyone seems to think they can pull the wool over someone else’s eyes
Ray
I don’t want to trade the young pitching prospects , and make a deal like the Nats did, for Adam Eaton either.
And I am not big on Dozier either, so it always depends what the deal is.
https://twitter.com/kengurnick/status/809565736288993280
Wondering
Talk about keeping the truth away from the press, and everyone else.
You can always tell when a baseball executive is lying…
But, their lips weren’t moving!
I just don’t understand why now.
All I can think why they kept it back, was to not let any team or free agent think they need another arm for the bullpen.
But why now?
The off season is far from over.
Don’t look for conspiracies!
IMO, it’s more likely Garcia had a choice of rehab or surgery. In the past players have tried to avoid surgery at all costs. Garcia probably did so, and when rehab didn’t take, he realized he would have to have surgery.
I shouldn’t have used the word conspiracies there.
Apologies if it was inappropriate.
Wondering
I guess we should have learned, from when they said, they were not trading Gordon, then traded him the next day.
Don’t trade De Leon.
In Dodger Blue they have two good articles under the news that Yimi had that surgery.
They are about JDL, and the trades on the second basemen.
Bluto
That could be true.
The only guy I have saw lately that didn’t have the TJ surgery, and was able to go on pitching, was Tanaka, that Yankee’s pitcher.
But why not even mention that?
MJ, have you ever consider starting your own blog? You spend as much time, if not more, than any of the guys, your baseball knowledge can pass any test, and your passion is self evident. You could call it Dodger Distaff. The object of any of your posts can be whatever you want it to be, team concerns like writers on this blog write about, along with the occasional article from a woman’s special point of view. It costs little or nothing to get started, I doubt if anyone will tell you how much income it produces, but rest assured none of these guys are doing it for their health or passion. A company like Word Press furnishes you the software and bandspace and technical support in getting it set up and keeping it running. As you have seen here, other writers contribute articles at times, I’m not sure how they are compensated, so you’re not even tied down to providing an article every day. I think a Dodger blog run by a woman would do well at attracting commenters. You have some experienced bloggers here, like Mark and Oscar and Scott, who I am sure would help and encourage you… One down note, the smart phone has to go, you would definitely need a computer for this undertaking. And don’t forget SpellCheck, your misspelled words kill me. Just kidding.
Wondering
My misspelled words kill me too.
What happens sometimes, I correct a word or spell it correctly, but because I have misspelled a words so much in the past, the mis spelled word goes up on the screen as the right spelling, and when I hit the space button, the mis spelled word prints , and I don’t notice it right away, because I am already at the next word, or at the end of the sentence.
And that misspelled word goes up, as soon as I hit the space button.
I will try to do better!
I wouldn’t like having my own blog.
I wouldn’t want the responsibility, and I don’t know enough about computers, and I am still learning about Major League Baseball.
Most of us are still learning about baseball, and all the other things in life, for that matter, it’s an ongoing process that only stops when the old heart stops. Oh, except for Mark and a few other guys who post here who have been granted full all seeing knowledge. How boring life must be for them.
Can you imagine a blog whose stated hypothesis is:
Republicans Only!
FAZ is always right, no criticism allowed!
Name-calling, harassment, lying, and back stabbing not only allowed but recommended!
Wondering
Everyone seems to like to read this site, but they only dare to post, unless they take on a name of a beloved celebrity, with a disability.
And they use this name, so no one will go off on them!
Wonder
I was wondering where you have been, that is why I came back here.
There is a new post today.
And Mark and Michael, seemed to call a truce.