Check Mate

I get so annoyed with hearing that the Dodgers are in on every rumor under the sun. Yet no moves get made. Then you hear about other teams in on players and those deals get done. Then I hear soundbites of Dodgers Manager Dave Roberts saying the winter meetings are slow for him. Andrew Friedman says things like he thinks the winter meetings will be slow. Tell that to the Boston Red Sox who have signed Mitch Moreland, acquired a reliever from the brewers and acquired Chris Sale.

 

Chris Sale is a once in a lifetime ace who instantly makes a team a serious contender. Prospects come and go and only one team can win the title. I like the aggressive approach of going for it. The Dodgers came within two games of the World Series and they take a passive approach while Dave Dombrowski is going for it. Stop overthinking and make moves on certain players who will turn the franchise around. The Dodgers have two pending free agents. We have Justin Turner and Kenley Jansen who just played with the Dodgers and are one of the best at their position in the game. So why all the hardball. Sign the guys and then try to improve the team to get over the hump. Signing your own players aren’t going to cost prospects which the Dodgers covet so much.

 

You would think with the top farm system the Dodgers have they can pull off a move to acquire a bat. You can have three prospects and only one will make an impact. Wade Davis just was acquired by the Cubs. A.J. Ellis was acquired by the Miami Marlins who now seem to me have an inside track to get Kenley Jansen. The Yankees to me have the inside track on Aroldis Chapman. Mark Melancon already signed with the Giants. Where does that leave the Dodgers? With nothing as usual. Stop thinking about things and pull the trigger. Stop playing hardball with your own free agents. For a team that hasn’t won the World Series since 1988, now is time when you came close to the World Series to put all the chips in and go for the ring.

 

Chris Sale would’ve been that kind of move but they let that pass by. Justin Turner does a lot in the community and is major influence in the clubhouse and you want to look for trade possibilities to get Todd Frazier. What a joke. Don’t the Dodgers have five whiz kids to run the front office while Mark Walter and Stan Kasten collect all our money. Jeez make a bold World Series type of move. Stan Kasten may have been a part of the old Atlanta Braves who won 14 straight division titles. The goal isn’t division titles, it’s a World Title. I’m tired of the song and dance of having no money. I don’t to see as an update that Yasiel Puig needs to lose weight. Sign our guys back and add a bat for the love of pete. Frustrated fan!!!!

James Moya

James Moya

Hi I’m James Moya. I am an avid Dodgers fan. I graduated Cal State Fullerton with a Bachelors in Communications. I used to freelance at the San Bernardino Sun. I’m excited about this opportunity to write for LA Dodger Report to gain experience. I’m a straight shooter on my opinions and I hope to get some good conversations going. My dream has always been to report on the Dodgers because Baseball is the National Past-time. I hope you enjoy the ride with me.

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This article has 190 Comments

  1. Boy are you going to hear it from the FAZOPHILES!!! But brother, I agree with you….28 years is long enough…..do something already!

  2. Some ridiculous comments here. The team, “came within two games of the World Series” …so why does the franchise need to be “turned around”?! Do you somehow feel that doing these multi million dollars deals faster would make them BETTER deals? Ridiculous. I love JT, but he is 37(soon) has balky knees and commands top dollar. Excellent for him, a risky signing for the Dodgers. They’re not trying to get to the World Series, they’re trying to win the World Series and not just once but be there repetitively. Considering alternatives is called being a responsible steward of the franchise’s assets for the good of the franchise. Getting their undies in a bunch and rushing into deals is NOT.

    1. Turner is 32, not 37. Get your facts straight.

      The Dodgers won 91 games last year. Without last year’s 3 hole hitter, closer and top set-up man, do you think that they will be better than last year?

    2. Who said anything about rushing? It is all about doing something else besides watching your competition get better. The Rockies everyday lineup is loaded. The Giants now have a decent closer. Huge reason for their demise last year was blown saves. They have holes and we all know that. Turner’s market has shrunk quite a bit and there is a good chance he will return to the Dodgers. But Jansen is going to get huge money, along with Chapman, and there are very slim pickings in the closer department. Use some of those assets and improve the team. You do not have to trade all of them, but you WILL have to trade some of them…….and make better choices than 3 top prospects for 2 rentals like Reddick and Hill were…..

    3. Dan

      Since you don’t really know how old Turner is, and didn’t say a thing, about the front office signing a pitcher, that has quite a few years on Turner, and a long injury history, how are we suppose to take you seriously.

      1. Ok, get over the mistake i made. I MEANT to say he’ll be 37 at the end of a 5 year contract so that merits careful consideration. As to his knee, he had microfracture surgery. That is a very significant. It doesnt mean I don’t think we should re-sign him. I’m a big fan, but I think it is a significant risk how long he will be effective if his knee becomes problemmatic. Don’t we remember that Matt KLemp had microtfracture surgery on his ankle and has not been the same player since?

    4. Dan his final line was “Frustrated fan”. That’s what he is, along with many of us.

      So other teams make bold moves while we sign a 37 year old and minor league/future platoon players. I can see why these meetings are slow for the Dodgers. Not many other teams work that way.

  3. Wow, when did Turner get “balky knees”??? He had 1 surgery, and showed as the year went on that he was completely over that injury. Yet now he’s 37 with balky knees. Love it

  4. James the ball is in the players court. I want JT too, but I don’t think there is a need to guarantee 5 years.

    Kenley? I was all in favor of signing him, but do you want him st 5/100? From all accounts the Dodgers have offered at least 5/80. That’s a lot for 70 innings. One of the closers needs to make up their minds.

    1. Hawkeye

      Even if the Marlins offer Kenley just over that amount, I don’t think Kenley will go to the Marlins, over the Dodgers.

      He has that play off blood in him now, and he won’t be doing that, if he goes to the Marlins.

  5. The soon to be 37y/o was Hill whom they just gave $48M .

    Here’s the #2 prospect in the Chris Sale trade…

    Boston Red Sox prospect Michael Kopech will be sidelined indefinitely after fracturing his right hand in an “altercation” with a teammate.

    General manager Mike Hazen said the right-hander suffered the injury during an incident with his spring training roommate a few days ago. He declined to identify which teammate was involved and also refused to reveal specifics.

    Pass. The Red Sox unloaded one of their bad apples by covering it in carmel. Wait until the White Sox bite into that.

    1. Here’s a better article…..
      SARASOTA, Fla. — Top Boston Red Sox prospect Michael Kopech is in trouble once again.

      Kopech, a right-handed pitcher and 2014 first-round draft pick, suffered a small fracture of his right hand during what the team described as an “altercation” with his roommate a few days ago, Red Sox general manager Mike Hazen said Tuesday. The incident comes six months after Kopech finished serving a 50-game suspension for violating the minor-league drug policy.

      “It’s disappointing, very disappointing. It was stupid,” Hazen said. “He’s going to have to grow up, obviously, with the things that have happened so far.”

        1. If I can do a little due diligence while working another job than they sure as hell should have already known. Another little tidbit about Kopech. He is dating a girl that has been around reality TV while growing up. No, this can’t end badly. LOL

          1. Remember we didn’t know about Chapman, but the Red Sox did?

            And the Padres made a bad faith trade with the Marlins, and the Padres had to take a player back.

            And the Padres GM got suspended.

  6. If the Dodgers end up with a 2nd coming of Brandon League to close games…….I too well remember those days and it was too long time coming for the real deal to arrive. Did this franchise return $ to TWC or gonna cut ticket prices back to the 60’s? There were those that were critical of Jansen’s performance as great as it was. but I remember before him so start the real complaining! Aw but just maybe we have an inhouse closer down on the farm. Stealth closer, after all those are made from other players positions.

    1. We know why Mattingly wants Kenley, because he needs a sure hand closer, with the way he handles a bullpen.

      I remember when Mattingly had lost faith with Kenley one year.

      I think it must have been 2012.

      And Kenley said something about it at one time.

      I was down on Kenley, after blew that save at the beginng of the year to the Giants, that cost us two games in the standings.

      And he also had a bad weekend against the Padres.

      And that blown save, against the Cardinals at there place was bad too.

      But after watching him in the post season, I now think he is a better closer, then Chapman.

      It looks to me, that Kenley just needs to work more often, to keep himself sharp.

      We really do need him, and he is young enough, that his contract won’t be that bad.

      1. Are you sure he’s not too young? The maximum amount offered is $48M. Maybe $48M over 3 years followed by another $48M over 3 years…..for those without a calculator that would be 6 years at a total of $96M. Now after Kersh opts out, guess what he’s getting, yep $48M per. Not a dime more dammit. FAZ is the master of $48M contracts.

  7. I feel your pain James. Losing a free agent to the Yankees, well, we’ve all been there. But to lose Kenley to the Fish? And the FO needs to stop talking about all the players they’re interested in and start dealing. They’re not gonna get laid on the internet in their parents’ basement.

  8. Per Dodgers.com, quoting Zaidi:

    “A lot of it does depend on how we fill our other needs, in terms of holes and handedness and payroll,” Zaidi said. “We’re trying to fit a puzzle together with multiple pieces. There’s no one thing, obviously, no one move we’re ready to lock in.”

    There’s no move the Dodgers are ready to make. Not yet.

    1. Of course not. Things happen on their time table…..like after everything is over. They are the folks that show up at the party when the party is all but over.
      They are the folks that go shopping the night before Christmas and wonder why the good stuff is gone and everything is strew all over the place.

      Remember the Porsche story…..everyone else shows up puts down their money, gets what they want and these 2 go back home with nothing and act like everyone else was filthy rich.

  9. Marlins have offered KJ 5/80+ While forfeiting their 1 pick.

    If the Dodgers want KJ and to assure there is no bad blood about trying to trade for Chapman they should go 5/87 and make him the highest paid reliever.

    1. That would be insane.

      I say let him go, and either trade or develop a closer from within.

      I think 16mm per is too much for a closer and the Marlins are at 18mm.

      That’s just bonkers.

      I read that with Fernandez’ untimely death, Mattingly thinks the route for the Marlins is to develop a strong bullpen instead of a starting rotation.

    2. Hawkeyes

      Even if the Dodgers offer the exact amount as the Marlins, Kenley will go to the Dodgers.

      He won’t be going to the play offs with the Marlins, and he really liked how Roberts talked with him, and prepared him for the post season.

      And the players get extra money going to the post season too.

  10. Let’s look at the payroll of the TOP 7 players the Red Sox have ands what they will make this year:

    Betts ($566K) – 7.8 WAR
    Pedroia ($13.1M) – 5.2 WAR
    Bradley ($566K) – 4.8 WAR
    Bogarts ($566K) – 4.7 WAR
    Ramirez ($22.7M) 2.6 WAR
    Leon ($566K) – 2.5 WAR
    Young ($566K) 1.1 WAR

    That’s seven players – $38.6M and 29.7 WAR

    If you can, THINK about this:

    Carl Crawfish ($21.8M) – Minus 0.8 WAR
    Andre Ethier ($20 M) – Minus 0.2 WAR
    Adrian Gonzalez ($22.3M) -1.3 WAR
    Arr, Kemp, Puig ($17.1M) – 1.0 WAR

    $81.2 Million – 3.3 WAR

    Do I have to explain further why the Dodgers can’t make those deals and the Red Sox can?

    If you don’t think THE TRADE had a big impact upon what is happening now, then you are simply out of touch with reality. We paid $42 Million for 1.1 WAR! The Red Sox spent $38.6M for 29.7 WAR, but someone says WAR costs $17 or $18 million – YES IT DOES, IF YOU ARE A DUMBASS!

    The RED SOX SWINDLED the Dodgers and got them to take Crawfish and Ethier so they could be where they are today.

    SWINDLED is the EXACT word! In two years, the Dodgers can make these deals. They can’t now.

    Do the math!

    What is wrong with you?

    1. I think the bigger question is, how does an organization win a Championship in 2004 and 2007, then regroup and win again in 2013. And now is going for it again?
      All those young guys you mentioned……..who drafted most of them? And in that you will find your answer.

  11. Mark, I’m sure it was just an honest error on your part, because I’m sure you know that the Red Sox DID NOT get the Dodgers “to take Crawfish AND Ethier.” Other than that I won’t re-hash the THE TRADE issue.

    Lots of deals get done in January, and even February, so I’m not exactly in panic mode. I’d like the Dodgers to re-sign Turner and Kenley, especially Turner, since there is currently no in-house third base option, unless the Dodgers swing a deal for a top rated shortstop and slide Seager over to 3B, where I believe he ultimately belongs.

    As for Kenley, I’d like him back, but if the Dodgers have to get into a bidding war with Miami (or some other mystery team), and his deal goes way above what Chapman just got, then I’d consider letting him go, take the draft pick, and look in-house for a replacement. That’s a risk, but one that could end up being worth it, or not.

  12. Sorry, I meant Crawfish and A-Gon, but here’s the most important point: The Red Sox like the Dodgers have some bad contracts, but nothing of the magnitude of the above 2 plus Ethier. $60 million last year on those three gave them 1.1 WAR.

    That why the Sox can do what they did with Sale and STILL BE UNDER THE LUXURY TAX!

    CC and Ethier goes away after 2017 and A-Gon after 2018. The class of 2018 should be a decent class of FA.

    You can bitch all you want but salary is going down and FAZ hands are tied. James is right – this is on Guggs and Kasten.

    If they did not do the trade and let FAZ blow up the team in 2015, we would be sitting on a huge stockpile of prospects. We still have a shot at winning in 2017, but salary wise, it will be hard. If they don’t do much in the trade or FA market, any way you slice it they are still $40 million over the Red Sox salary.

    It appears to me that they are just driving prices up. I am surprised that Turner is not getting more love, so maybe he will be back. The Dodgers have tried to move Ethier and A-Gon and can’t do it with even eating half their salaries. Might as well keep them if you have to pay more than that.

    The upside is that maybe there is a team that needs one of them during the season and let’s not forget that young players develop at different rates. Some of the young pitchers will require more time, but some will likely just suddenly “get it.” I was on a 8 hour road trip yesterday and listened to MLB the whole time and they talked about just that. “Suddenly a light goes on and he’s another player.”

    Who will it be? Dozier, Braun or any of those guys aren’t coming. I think we have to pin our hopes (again) on Yasiel Puig realizing his potential, Andrew Toles being the player he looked like, Joc Pederson growing as a hitter, Corey Seager becoming a monster, Yasmani Grandal becoming an All-Star and others stepping up. The Dodgers are going to get under $235 mil… but there’s no mandate! Yeah, right!

  13. IF Yasiel Puig can suddenly “get it” and hit .300 with 25 HR and 100 RBI, it’s a new ballgame. One can only hope.

    Joc Pederson has 51 HR in his first two seasons. He grew as a hitter last year. Can he improve that much again? Maybe!

    I think JT comes back if they backload his deal, so the biggest money comes after A-Gon, CC and Andre are off the books.

    These are not predictions, but it could happen:

    1. Toles – .285/.350 OB%
    2. Seager – .320/30 HR/100 RBI
    3. Turner – .300/25 HR/90 RBI
    4. Puig – .310/25 HR/100 RBI
    5. Pederson – .265/33 HR/85 RBI
    6. A-Gon – .275/15 HR/85 RBI (decline but still solid)
    7. Grandal – .250/33 HR/70 RBI
    8. Hernandez – .260

    Again, the aforementioned players are capable, but I’m not predicting it!

    1. I see about 5 career years in there. The most logical to happen of all is #6 and if that is his numbers than the team is probably in trouble offensively.

      Any team that gets 5 career years from it’s starting line up should be setting the world on fire and end with over 100 wins. As Pluto likes to say, back to reality.

    2. Mark

      Here you go reverting back to that trade!

      You always seem to forget to mention this current front office’ s mistakes.

      McCarthy, Kazmir, Olivera, and thank goodness Anderson who took 15 million for one season on the bench, is now
      gone.

      And you forgot to mention that other player that we are still paying for, that no one even knew.

      Anytime you bring up that trade, and don’t list this front office’s mistakes, no one is going to take you seriously.

      Every front office makes mistakes, that is being human.

      And now we are at the end of this winter meetings, and we don’t have a third baseman, a second baseman, and a closer.

      What the heck is this front office doing?

      They have so many bodies in this front office, and we still have big wholes in our line up!

      And we are still stuck with McCarthy, and Kazmir!

      What are they doing, are they still trying to plan a five team trade or what?

      Sometimes the obvious move is the right move!

  14. The Dodgers can do whatever they CHOOSE to do. The trade has nothing to do with it. That move accomplished exactly what it was supposed to do, whitewash the McCrap years, put butts back in the seats and WIN again. We’re all weary of the tired Trade tirade that is dumped on us every week. Move dot McTimmons.

    I think $80+ million for a one inning guy is nuts. Great closers surface every year. Let Kenley go to Miattingly, hope you melt down there sugar pops, and find another guy. We probably have one already. $80+ million and a draft pick sounds more valuable to me. It would, I made less than $20,000 as a teacher. And I taught for more than 1 inning every few days. Sign or beat feet Jansen.

  15. Those numbers are insane.

    #6 could happen. But I think it’s more productive to make an attempt at accuracy. I.G. – Grandal is going to play less than 125 games, hit .235 with 20 home runs and <70 ribbies. The older he gets the more owies he will accumulate.

    You criticized those numbers guys who do it for a living then throw those cowpies against the wall. It's nice to think positive – in your OWN orbit. Setting personal bars high can be productive. But let's try to be real about baseball players

  16. There are none so blind as those who will not see. There are 43 million reasons why The Trade still impacts the Dodgers but if someone can’t see that there is a better chance I can convince my dog. I think even he would comprehend it.

    1. Yeah and the blind must not have looked at the new MLB labor agreement. Luxury tax rates going up and draft penalties for being in luxury tax territory.

  17. Looks like it is time to move on from Jansen. $80M/5 yrs for 70 innings per year is crazy. Somebody on the prior thread questioned paying Hill $133,333 ($16M / 120 innings) per inning. Paying Jansen $228,571 ($16M / 70 innings) per inning is really insane. FAZ knows it. Hope you enjoy Florida Kenley, thanks for the memories and draft pick!

    Now to Plan B.

    Internal options to close

    Dayton
    Liberatore
    Rhame
    ?????

    External options to close or beef up bullpen

    Greg Holland
    Neftali Feliz
    Boone Logan
    Shawn Tolleson
    Chris Withrow
    ??????

    Lots of options out there for Dodgers with an extra $16M to spend. Get somebody with a pick-off move while we are at it.

    1. Boxout

      I think Felix would be a good arm for our bullpen, but not for our closer.

      I think the Cardinals already signed Logan to a three year contract, before these meetings started.

    2. Rhame would be interesting as an internal option and I would include Ravin also. Both throw in the high 90’s.
      Rhame rates a 70 with his FB but his other pitches are rated as below average. Not sure about Ravin’s other pitchers on how they rate.
      Turner is still our #1 priority and if KJ is all about the money(who isn’t really) let him walk. We’ll still get a pretty high(#13?) pick for him.

      1. I haven’t heard anything on Blanton, not as a closer but setup man. I think he was a plus but wore down due to overuse.

  18. Too early to say the Dodgers will not be at least as good as last year. Those holes will have to be filled but the holes will be smaller due to a few players that should be better in 2017 than they were in 2016 such as Pederson, Seager, Puig, Toles, Thompson, Ethier.

    Utley was good while Turner and Kendrick were not early in 2016 and the opposite was true in late 2016.

    The Dodgers might add Dozier or Cutch or Cain still. They might trade for Davis or Britton.

    Roberts might be able to use Stripling like Cleveland used Miller with similar end results but with higher era and whip.

  19. If Turner were not such a good clubhouse guy I would not over pay him. Still, I evaluate options.

    Turner could wind up like Jody Reed if he waits too long.

  20. The Bucs might be more willing to drop their demands for Cutch now that they have an awkward connection to him.

    How much can a team ask for a player that is a two year rental that has some ego issues?

    Cutch didn’t like batting second last year. He probably wants to play CF and the Dodgers might prefer him to play LF. Cutch had a bad first half last year.

    Dodgers have quite a few players whose trade value should increase after July so unless other teams are willing to accept some risk about the Dodgers prospects or recovering veterans fulfilling potential, I would wait before unloading a boatload of prospects for Cutch and others.

    I want young players anyway. For me, I want the mirror of Verdugo, Calhoun, Toles–same skills and age but hit from the right side.

  21. Very frustrating few days for Dodger fans. We of course want the big splash and they did not even make a ripple. I agree with Bum that Turner could end up like Jody Reed did. The market for him has shrunk. Jansen is as good as gone considering that according to yardbarker he and the team are far apart in years and salary. They did not lose anyone in the Rule 5 draft so the farm is intact. Giants and Rockies both made moves to get stronger. I think I have one thing figured out. The way baseball is played today and the way teams are built and paid for makes the game less fun in my eyes. These salary’s they pay are ridiculous. What they charge you to go to the games is skyrocketing along with the salary’s. I have moved on. I would rather pay the 109.00 a year and watch the games on my big screen TV rather than fight the traffic and all the post game bullshit to go to the stadium. I still love the team, and I will root for them to win with no expectations that they will do so. Because all that does is set you up for disappointment. I dislike the front office and the way they do business, but it is their business. I refuse from now on to get attached to any player because in all likelihood they will be gone in short order. As good as Kersh is, he will probably walk in 2 years without winning the big one in LA> . He will take the money and run just the same way Greinke did. I do not begrudge any of the players for making their money. If ownership is stupid enough to pay it, they should take it while they can. I am starting to think of baseball in the same terms I think of movies. I can do without spending 25.00 every time I go to a movie. I will wait for it to come out on blu ray. Then I can make my own popcorn and watch it over and over if I like. I wish all the Dodger players this year success. I hope they do well. Bitching and moaning over what moves or non moves this FO makes is just a waste of energy. At my age, I do not have much to spare. Arguing with the FAZOMANIACS and their ilk, is also a waste. I will just post what strikes my fancy and let it go at that. Y’all have a great day. It is frippen freezing outside and I am not going anywhere today.

  22. James, turns out you were spot on. They did bupkis….according to mlb.com…..they are doing due diligence ahead of trades………must take them a long time to read the new CBA……….

  23. This is what I would like to do:

    Baltimore wants a lefty bat in outfield to replace free agent Trumbo.
    Baltimore wants a catcher to replace free agent Weiters.

    Dodgers want a closer.
    Baltimore has an awesome closer in Britton.

    I would weaken the Dodger catcher position and live with Barnes and Farmer in order to include Grandal in a trade with Baltimore.

    Grandal, Ethier, $$, Verdugo, Baez to start the conversation with Baltimore for Britton.

    Dodgers could still sign free agent Weiters (a Boras guy) to catch with money saved from not signing Jansen, especially if they can trade Gonzales.

    Gonzales and $$ and Hernandez and Johnson to San Diego for Solarte.

    1. What is frustrating is that we have all of these bodies in our front office, and much more riches then most teams, and our front office can’t even give a contract over 48 million to any free agent.

      And the free agents that they gave this money too, most teams wouldn’t give these players, a multi year contract, let alone, for 48 million dollars.

      And even in the worse year for starting pitching, we are still stuck with McCarthy and Kazmir!

      And we don’t have a second baseman, a third baseman, a closer, and no bat to help this team, to hit better against lefties next year.

      And we still don’t have enough arms in our bullpen either.

      And a good closer and a good bullpen, is pertinent to this team, because we have a bunch of starting pitchers that don’t pitch much past five innings!

      And if the front office doesn’t want to spend money, or trade for a starting pitcher, they better use one of these ways, to get a good closer, and to bring some good arms to strengthen the bullpen!

  24. Mark

    If this front office would have signed Hill last year, instead of Kazmir, we might still have a replacement for Kenley, as well as two more of our young pitchers, to use in a trade.

    And we would have less money on our payroll, without Kazmir.

    Anyone can go almost anyway, after the fact, but see every front office makes mistakes.

    And this front office has more bodies in there office, then any team in baseball!

    These guys we have, have no real experience on running a big market team!

    Maybe that is why every big free agent signing, has to be the number 48 million.

    What have they done in this winter meeting?

    It seems like every other team, who doesnt have as many bodies in the front office, or the riches the Dodgers have, have done more.

  25. <$235,000,000 is the reason. Unless we can swindle someone like we got swindled a few years ago, there's nothing to do but wait! When you have Three Players who make $60+ million, who are unlikely to generate to generate 3.0 WAR combined - Probably less, you have a problem Houston! Next, year, we lose $40 million of that, but right now, no one wants Ethier for even $6 mil a year and Crawfish is fatter that well... nevermind. The fact is that the Red Sox and Cubs will both be under $200 million next season. They are the World Series favorites. You don't get there by spending. You get there by NOT SPENDING. In fact, I would not be surprised if the Dodgers payroll was significantly under $235 Million.

    1. You could be right. I’m not advocating paying outrageous monies to these ‘over 30’ players either. But this is the same FO that offered Grienke $160M/5 year deal. Were they not worried about the luxury tax a year ago? So Grienke signs elsewhere and all of a sudden it’s all about getting below the luxury tax.

      IF THAT IS THE CASE, then why sign a 37 y/o pitcher to a $48M deal? Why even act like you are interested in resigning Jansen & Turner when that would derail the plan of getting below the luxury tax. So is it safe to assume that paying Kersh $40M per (representing 1/6 of the luxury tax line) even an option? If not, then wouldn’t it behoove them to move him sooner (for more prospects) rather than later or will this turn out to be another Grienke mishandled situation. As I have said many times, what is the plan? Can’t keep signing marginal players to 3 and 4 year deals, paying upfront big money to Cubans and then claim it’s all about trimming payroll and therefore letting players walk.

      Just for conversation……How many large contracts ($25M+ annually) can a team finance and still stay below the luxury tax level? With that class of 2018 FA’s how many can the Dodgers feasibly purchase and still maintain Kershaw?

      1. Chili

        The first year this new front office was here, they didn’t try to pay less, and bring the payroll down, they actually made the Dodgers payroll, the highest it had ever been.

        Why trade Gordon and Haren, if they were suppose to bring the payroll down?

        They took on a lot of salaries from players, that never even played for the Dodgers, with there trade deadline trades.

        They gave that Cuban Olivera, a 48 million contract, in there first year here.

        They did later trade him, but we payed for his big bonus, and we are still paying for part of his salary.

          1. Every team has that happen.

            What is the point of this conversation?

            They scouted him, they liked him, they spent money on him, they didn’t like what they saw, he had value, they traded him.

            The guy who signed him is gone.

            What else do you want them to do?

      2. Chili

        And these signings of these marginal players, does add up, and it is more then Agone, is getting paid, but at least he is producing.

    2. Mark

      Why is this front office’s mistakes, in two short years, never part of your spiel?

      No one is asking them to pay an outregous salary or make a bad trade.

      But with what they have given these three starting pitchers, Turner’s and Kenley’s rates, don’t look outrageous at all!

      That is the going rate for closers that a team can count on, in baseball right now.

      And really Kenley is probably the best closer of the three.

      And Turner is a good player, that has played well, and hard for this team.

      We don’t have anyone to fill both Turner’s or Kenley’s positions!

      Turner will only get a four year contract, and in 2019 when the payroll is down, Turner will only have two years left.

      And check out what middle of the order hitters are getting right now.

      Turner
      will still be a bargain, even if he makes twenty a year.

      I agree this front office really didn’t have a chance to sign Kenley to a lesser contract, to buy out some of his free agent years.

      But this front office better learn from this and buy out our young players free agent years, to keep the payroll down, instead waiting for them, to be in the free agent market.

      Now even the good writers are saying the Dodgers haven’t done much at all.

      And the Dodgers have much more wholes to fill, then most every other team.

  26. I am sick and tired of hearing about the Dodgers money problems. It is a self inflicted wound so get over it. The decisions they have made over the last few years have backfired. Some have worked out, others not so much. Do not expect anything and you will not be disappointed…at this point I expect nothing and that is what I have got……

    1. Therefore you should have peace of mind, Michael. I feel for some of the older folks on the blog cause the Dodgers aren’t winning a title anytime soon. The Cubs. The Nationals. The Mets. The Giants. The Cardinals. The Red Sox. Soon the Yankees will be back in ‘title’ contention. Those teams aren’t going anywhere. In fact some are going to be much improved going into 2017.

      1. Rest assured Chili, I do not see any in the foreseeable future. It is a shame to come so close and be frustrated time after time. To watch a guy as talented as Kersh struggle in the post season. He should not have had to pitch on 3 days rest. If the front office had done their so called due diligence last year, they never would have had to trade for Rich toilet paper Hill. Their best shot was not really this year. It was 2013 when Hanley was raking the end of the year and they were hitting on all cylinders until he was plunked by the Birds and put out of action. If it happens it happens….but with this bunch running the show, I have zero confidence it will…

  27. The Dodgers GMs just are NOT on the same program as several of the other GMs in baseball.

    Looks like basically the same team on the field, same basic pitchers — and still a bunch of holes not filled (2b, 3b, weak outfield) and looks like loosing out on the elite closers.

    The money issue kind of goes away — when a team wins a World Series. Money comes in and the world knows you are the best. I am tired of smoke and mirrors on the team.

    1. Roger

      The Dodgers are only second in value to the Yankees, and that is without even winning a World Series, in almost three decades.

      And every year since these owners took over, the Dodgers have raised there prices every year.

    2. You are so right, and look at it this way. How much money would a World Series appearance generate? In concessions and memorabilia sales alone they would make a killing. The next years attendance would skyrocket. The fans would be more willing to spend on a product that actually won something. Division titles are nice, but they are an empty crown.

        1. And they sell out their ball park almost every night. Dodgers get maybe 10 sell outs a year. One reason is smaller capacity at AT&T. But the Dodgers still should sell out more than that. Biggest problem is nobody wants to deal with all the traffic before and after the games.

  28. After another “big game” (Winter Meeting) failure as FAZ played hardball and tried to trade and sign on the cheap, I would expect them to make another bad trade/signing in desperation, just to show they were trying. After all, when your payroll is already $240MM (Or whatever), what’s another $20MM on some third rate player? The Public Relations people can pump him up good…

      1. MJ,

        I believe you mean cost. Big difference between cost and value. For example Seager has a lot of value but his cost is as cheap as can be….league minimum.

        1. Chili

          I meant cost, because a lot of that Payroll isn’t what they are paying for the team they are fielding.

          That payroll has players on it, that are not even on the team, but we are still
          paying part of these players salaries.

  29. I know Kenley’s salary sounds like a lot for a closer, but he is only asking for about 30 more million, then what Hill was paid.

    But Kenley’s contract, is two years longer, then Hills contract.

    Kenley is much younger then Hill, and he doesn’t have an long injury history like Hill.

    And we mostly know we can count on Kenley, to be ready to close a game.

    We know that Hill isn’t going to make all of his starts, or even come close to pitching 200 innings.

    1. MJ, I really don’t think this is Hill vs Kenley. It’s about paying over 80 million to a closer. I want them to re-sign KJ but it is getting a ridiculous price. Saving $85m + luxury tax and getting a 1st Rd pick has to be considered.

  30. My take on the Davis/Soler deal. KC must not have thought Puig was as good as Soler, or why else didn’t we make that deal? Wade Davis for Puig sounds about right. We could have had a closer with no out of pocket cost and got rid of a forever problem. Does anyone think that deal was offered? Puig is not as good as Soler, the 6th outfielder on the Cubs. That sounds about right too.

    1. Bobbie 17

      It is probably mostly Puig’s rep, that causes his loss in value.

      His numbers have went down every year too.

      And if you look at only his stats from last year, he was nothing more then a very average player, or even less.

      With Puig, it is always his potential that reels people in!

  31. Timmons: ” You don’t get there by spending. You get there by NOT SPENDING.”

    So the Dodgers should dump anyone making over the major league minimum – they should be the best team in baseball if they spend the least.

      1. I just repeated what was written to demonstrate the absurdity of the statement. If not spending makes you good then…

        Obviously a team has to spend $$ to be good – but you have to spend it on the right players. This is where management will prove itself or not.

    1. The Los Angeles Dodgers named Jansen one their priorities this offseason, but it’s difficult to envision president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman breaking from his philosophy of not committing significant salary to a relief pitcher.

      That’s notion is further supported by significant gap when negotiations between the Dodgers and Jansen, via to J.P. Hoornstra of the Southern California News Group:

      Sources with knowledge of the negotiations said the Dodgers began with an offer of four years and $55 million, a record average annual value for a closer. Jansen’s counter-offer? Eight years, $150 million.

      http://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-rumors-kenley-jansen-la-3-years-95-million-apart-contract-negotiations/2016/12/08/

      1. Boxout

        Kenley made 10 million 750 dollars last year.

        So what the front office offered Kenley, was only about a one million dollar raise, per year.

        1. OK, but wouldn’t you want a four year guaranteed contract if you blew your elbow out?

          As the article said, those numbers were the beginning of the negotiations.

          How much would you pay, max, for Jansen, including years?

          1. Boxout

            Look at Hill got for just three years.

            Kenley’s contract is thirty million more, but for five years.

            Kenley is younger, and much more dependable then Hill is.

          2. Four plus year deals for relievers almost never work out.

            He wanted eight year?!?!?

            I wouldn’t go past four. I wouldn’t go higher than 16mm per.

            BEfore this off-season the biggest deal was Papelbon’s I think. That deal ended up a disaster. Most do.

            BJ Ryan, Spier, Nathan, Karsay, even Kimbrell has lost value since his deal was signed.

  32. Mark is merely explaining why we are hamstrung by some existing salaries.

    Shorter term, higher risk salaries is where Faz is shopping, as they are still paying for contracts given out previously.

    If we can continue to produce our own and then add in some FAs when we have the funds again, then I’m sure we will.

    We traded for Hill as it was deemed a risk worth taking for a shot at a WS. At 2-1 up against the Cubs it seemed like a good role of the dice.

    We didn’t give up our top prospects, and it gave us a shot.

    Personally, I let Kenley walk & see what we have in ST.

    1. Have the funds???? We are talking about frippen BILLIONAIRES here. They are hamstrung because they made the choice and it is the fans who have to foot the bill by watching the almost unwatchable. Hill low risk? They got 3 regular season wins for 3 top prospects. He did ok in the playoffs, but unless they win games 4 and 5 which they did not, and CK wins game 6 to give Hill a shot at game 7, it means bupkis. The fans want the series period. They are tired of waiting around for another shot. They acquire junk and expect production. Hill is close to being over the hill……. For a ownership who said they were looking to win, they have failed….sure….4 division titles…….and the Giants won 2 world series while they did that…….division titles only get you to the dance…..the idea is to win…….

      1. Might you temper your frustration with recognition that they were two games from the WS last year with a rested Kershaw and Hill slotted for those games?

        Normally I want to retain our players and budget accordingly instead of splurging on other teams free agents but there is a limit to my desire to keep our guys. I think players should share the risk of big contracts by accepting a contract that gives them some of their contract based on ability to play.

        1. Whoopee…so they were two games away. They did not get the job done. I have zero confidence in Hill what so ever. I had more confidence that Kershaw would at least get them to that 7th game. But it was not to be. You are up 2-1 and in your home ball yard and give games 4 and 5 away, then expect to win on the road? That is wishful thinking. I knew the Cubs were going to win that series the minute they went up 3-2 in games. So did they.

    2. Watford

      Mark only tells part of the problem, because he never mentions the money this front office has thrown away, in two short years.

      We are still paying for Olivera, and we also gave him a big bonus too.

      Kazmir and McCarthy, are bad signings too

    3. Apparently FAZ would have tried to sign Hill last year if Anderson hadn’t accepted the QO. So, FAZ got burned by making a silly QO to Anderson.

          1. Bum

            Maybe injury wise Kazmir was less risky, but not performance wise.

            Remember they both were pitching in an independent league, not to long ago.

    1. Baseball executives can’t tell others what they are planning so they always obfuscate. It’s the nature of the business and I don’t fault them for not telling the world what their plans are.

      I am more concerned about what they actually end up with. Last year it meant too many injured or injury-prone starting pitchers with bad track records , 28 players on the DL, a starting staff who didn’t pitch enough innings, an exhausted bullpen and a lack of elite pitchers for the post-season, and no one who could hit southpaws.

      I am now wondering what they will do not only to fix last year’s problems but to fill in the holes in this year’s team. Who will play 2B? 3B? Hit lefties? Pitch the end of games and high leverage situations? What starters will be able to pitch more than 5 innings/game and start more than 20 games?

      We don’t yet know the answers to any of these questions. When we do, we can say whether this off season was a success.

    1. I sure didn’t think signing Hill was the most important move for the Dodgers to do.

      Because we have plenty of young pitchers.

      But we don’t have a third baseman, or a closer, waiting in the wings.

      1. MJ, I’m with you on JT, but why is you think because they signed Hill first that made him a bigger priority? They may have set a budget for all 3 and the other two are nowhere near the number in years, money, or both. I say give JT 4 years and he really shouldn’t expect more guaranteed. I say offer Kenley 5/80 and I don’t even like going that high, but after that I can’t see paying more or at least I get it if they don’t. The silence is deafening though. If Kenley really wanted to go to Miami it would have been done by now.

  33. Since the Red Sox are everyone’s model right now, why not look at how they can afford to pay people and it’s very simple. I mentioned it yesterday. They have 8 players who put up 30+ WAR and only make less than $5 Million Combined.

    When you have a core of productive young players, you can pay the following:

    Price – $30 million
    Ramirez – $22 Million
    Porcello – $20 Million
    Sandavol – $17.6 Million
    Pedroia – $16 Million

    Then you can add a Chris for $12 million

    They have some bad deals: The Panda, to name one. Maybe Hanley only for two more years.

    The Cubs did the same thing – They have a core of youngsters who can produce. We do not have that yet. No matter what you think, it is about the money… and you don;t get there by SPENDING! PERIOD!

    You get there by spending wisely… when you are ready.

    1. That young core is going to cost big bucks someday and then what? Let them all walk?

      No matter what, good baseball players are going to get paid by someone. It’s easy to say that you have to have a young core but they don’t stay young and cheap forever. In the NFL, they adopted a hard salary cap so that no matter what, you can’t keep your good players. In the NBA, they have Bird rights as an exception to the cap so you can keep your good players if you want to.

      What about the Dodgers? Jansen is a home-grown star. I thought the idea was to grow your own and keep them. Unless you’re the A’s/Rays – then you dump them for the next group of kids.

      If the Dodgers weren’t going to re-sign Jansen, they should have traded him last year, although I can’t imagine the post-season last year without him. I actually thought that they were going to do this.

      So now what – the 9th inning is pitched by whomever loses rock paper scissors?

    1. James

      They are really big on pitchers that have big hit and miss stuff, and that is why I don’t think they tried to get Melancon.

    2. What kind of silly, inane statement is this. Who said/intimated or even hinted that they don’t want Jansen?

      Who said they were even interested in Melancon?

      What does Melancon do at a better level than Jansen, except (given the potential Miami deal) provide a better value.

  34. Boy will I be pissed if FAZ let Turner and Jansen get away and they run back to their alma maters (Oakland and Tampa) to fill in with trash rentals. The get-out-of-jail-free cards should be expired by now. It’s time for these so-called GMs to grow-up and start to function with the big boys or just get-out-a-town!

  35. If the Dodgers improve, fine. If they don’t do anything more, fine.

    Too many people are angry and frustrated in here. It’s Christmas time. Be joyful.

    The Dodgers can field a competitive team with the guys they have now.

    lets see who is healthy in Spring.

    1. Exactly.

      They have a smart, widely respected front office that has done exceedingly well.

      A good manager. A great farm system. Established players both young and old on the 40.

      Relax and be optimistic.

    1. The only fantasy here Mark is that you try and decide what people can think and if they disagree with your assessments you think they are dumb. People are pissed off and frustrated by the lack of action this FO takes. So yeah, the onus is on FAZ and the gang. They want action and results….they want a team they think at least has a chance. Right now most do not think this is a competitive team at all…..too many holes and too many questions.

      1. They said the same thing last year!

        And we were within an out or two of winning.

        FAZ had $63 Million handcuffs when they started. $41 million goes away next year.

        It’s kicking the cat.

        Let me make one thing perfectly clear: I do not think people who disagree with me are dumb! I think people who disagree with the facts are dumb! Maybe delusional is a better word…

        You cannot compare a team who is saddled with $63 million of dead weight and a bloated payroll to a team like the Red Sox who dumped their dead weight to the Dodgers.

        Now, I will grant you that FAZ has made mistakes too and that adds to it, but why did they make the mistakes?

        Because they did not have the money to sign the big names.

        They have the largest payroll in baseball and pay the highest luxury tax and you want them to pay more? It won’t, can’t and isn’t happening. Nor should it!

        1. FAZ is looking 5 years out and every move they think about doing is put into a 5 year plan. Trade a few prospects for a one or two year rental and what holes are created in the 5 year plan that were not there before that trade.

          Give a free agent a 5 year contract for big bucks that is earned only in the first two years and in 2019 they are right back where they are now with players not earning their big salaries such as Crawford, Ethier, Gonzales, Kemp, McCarthy, Kazmir, Arruebarrena and all the other Cubans that are gone.

          There are 30 teams and all it takes is one or two to overspend on each of the free agents and that leaves rational GMs with nothing or future problems just described.

          When someone says we are mad and frustrated, are they talking about the 5 or so that comment here and saying the same thing over and over again until there are 200 redundant comments?

          1. Bum

            You are not a normal fan.

            You don’t care about results.

            You just want the whole team to be 25, and under.

            Most prospects are not major league players.

            And we want the team to be successful.

            And the players they have chosen to give multi year contracts to, are questionable.

            Between Anderson, McCarthy, and Kazmir, there is 100 million dollars plus, and for what.

            If you want every player to be 25 and under, and you don’t care about talent, why don’t you just watch the AAA team.

          2. MJ said: If you want every player to be 25 and under, and you don’t care about talent, why don’t you just watch the AAA team.

            I do want a young, fast team that plays great defense and can pitch and hit. There is no reason that a young team can’t have talent and an AAA team can have talent as well.

            Seager, Pederson, Puig, Bellinger, Toles, Thompson, Urias, De Leon, Stewart, Striplng, Buehler, Alvarez have talent and are under 25 plus or minus a year.

        2. The Dodgers have spent $26MM on Anderson for 2 years for 1 year’s production.
          The Dodgers have spent $48MM on McCarthy for 4 years – 0 year’s production out of 2.
          The Dodgers have spent $48MM on Kazmir for 3 years – 0 year’s production out of 1.
          The Dodgers have spent $48MM on Hill – who knows what productivity they will get?

          The point is for all of the talk about the Dodgers being frugal, they are spending $$ on the old and infirm.
          In 2015, they spent $24MM on McCarthy and Anderson.
          In 2016, they spent $44MM on McCarthy, Anderson and Kazmir.
          Next year, they will spend $44MM on McCarthy, Kazmir and Hill.

          I maintain that they have not spent wisely on injury-prone pitchers.

          This analysis doesn’t include the untold millions spent on Cubans who haven’t done much yet, although the jury is still out. (Puig had 1 1/2 good seasons.)

          For a team with $63MM handcuffs, they’ve spent a lot on players who haven’t done very much good.

          1. Rick

            That is the problem.

            When they did spend money, and gave multi year contracts to free agents, they haven’t made good decisions on these guys.

            And Olivera was another 48 million dollar disaster.

            I saw that Mark has said they have made mistakes, and I appreciate his honesty.

            And I don’t think Hill was the top of the list, of free agents, that the Dodgers needed, but at least Hill has an upside, that is worth a risk, unlike the other three pitchers.

          2. Bum

            Even all of thoughs players you mentioned, we don’t know that they will be viable major league players, let alone star players.

            Everyone would love it if that would happen, but it isn’t being realistic.

            And some of those players, will probably not even stay with the Dodgers.

            People question even if Toles will make it, and he has done better, then any other young player that has come up lately, except for Corey.

            They are just being prudent, because of him only having about 200 at bats.

            And I don’t think it is fair to judge what he did, when he wasn’t getting consistent at bats.

            But I kind of feel that Turner is like one of our prospects, because this was where he made his big change, to be a star major league player, but I know his age can be a problem.

            And I don’t think either Turner or Kenley, will cause the Dodgers payroll, to go up to high, especially when we should be getting some of our young players, in the next three years.

            I think if we make it to the post season next year, and Kershaw doesn’t hold up, I think we should think about maybe moving him, at the trade deadline, before his end of his contract.

        3. Who appointed you to decide what is fact and what is fiction? And are you privy to the Dodgers finances? I doubt that. You are talking about guys who paid 2.2 BILLION dollars for the team, and they had to prove they had the finances to run the team before MLB signed off on the deal. They wanted to make sure there was not another McCourt disaster. They wasted money on Anderson, McCarthy and Kazmir, yet they offered Greinke 160 million and they don’t have the money? Come on Mark, there is no defense for these guys. The common fan,, and I am not talking about guys like you who write blogs and stuff do not look or care about the money. I get that they are trying to reduce payroll. But the average fan is looking at what happens on the field. And they are not happy when their favorites leave or sign huge contracts with another team and they see money wasted on broken down over rated trash.

  36. Since Friedman took over, the Dodgers have not given out a contract over $48 million.

    $48 mil is $48 mil, but it’s not much in today’s baseball climate.

    Maybe some of you need a BIG SIGN, but you should be able to figure out what is happening.

    One more year and $42 million (CC & Ethier) comes off the books. Then, $21.5 million (A-Gon) comes off the books the next year. Maybe Kershaw ($34 million) too…

    By then, Bellinger, De Leon, Verdugo, Calhoun, Alvarez, Diaz, Buehler, Sheffield, Smith, Stewart, De Jong, Rhame and others should be ready or close.

    If 50% of them are successful, that would be a huge success. If 60% are successful, that is a dynasty! Then come the free agents!

    This is a rebuild… without blowing it up. Will it work? Not the way I would do it, but it may.

    It’s never been done like this before – rebuild while being competitive. If you don’t like it, it’s Kasten and Guggs you should be mad at, not FAZ!

          1. Looking at the #’s and accounting for the players that show up on the top 10 list for 3 and 4 seasons (a la Pederson & Seager), it would appear that the success rate is about 20% at best.

            Goes back to what I have said for well over a year now, if you are putting all your eggs into the basket of prospects taking this team to the World Series, you really should be putting down the crack pipe.

    1. Sources with knowledge of the negotiations said the Dodgers began with an offer of four years and $55 million, a record average annual value for a closer. Jansen’s counter-offer? Eight years, $150 million.

      1. Bum

        Did you know that the Dodger offer, was only a one million dollar raise per year for Kenley.

        And your smart you know the Dodgers low balled Kenley, and Kenley’s agent went that other way, because it is somewhere in the middle, that Kenley’s contract should be.

  37. Jansen is Gone. He’s not going to get a 5 year $80 million deal here – nor should he. Felony Stupid! As good as he is – he blew 6 games last year! Big Games!

    Turner is being offered 3 years/$60 million. I agree. He very well may be back… backloaded!

    That’s the inside scoop.

    1. Yep, if FAZ don’t sign them or trade for them, they are ‘crap, garbage, no good’…..but if FAZ signs or trades for them, they are ‘great pickups’ despite their lackluster history. Some of you really need to take your Dodger Blue glasses off.

      1. Chili

        That is the problem, because it is obvious that they don’t know how to deal with free agents.

        And they have no problem giving multi year contracts, to very risky older pitchers, that are not even worth, making those risks on.

        Anderson, McCarthy, and Kazmir, all fit this mold.

  38. Well, I let Kenley walk for that money & take the pick.

    I hope JT takes the above offer, but I think we maybe outbid.

    Michael, you mentioned earlier about taking a philosophical approach to next season, and trying to enjoy it.
    That was exactly what I did last year, and I really enjoyed it.
    This time last year I was very sceptical about our chances, but what do you know? It was a great season. The Bullpen, which I thought was going to be our Achilles heal, turned out to be our strength. Urias came in and pitched well, and we had the Rookie of the Year.
    Yes, we could have done better, but realistically I didn’t see us getting anywhere near the WS yet we were 2 wins away.

    I think the big difference now is that we know for certain that Guggs are trying to get under the Luxury Tax Threshold, whereas before we kind of presumed that the spending would carry on unabated because these guys “are billionaires”. We now know that the Ownership are not prepared to throw unlimited money at it, and therefore can lower our expectations accordingly.

    I think having Hill gives us a great 1-2 at the head of the rotation, followed by Maeda, Urias & plenty of potential #5s.

    I do think that if Turner leaves then we certainly need a RH masher. Could we get Braun without giving up Puig?

    Anyway, as far as I can see, plenty to be positive about.

    1. Watford

      They are still spending a lot of money, but only on players, that don’t count against the payroll.

      They have spent tons on Cubans, that we don’t know what they are.

      And do you really think a starting pitcher, that has five years on Turner, and a long injury history, should only be getting 12 million less then Turner, who has been the most important bat, on this team, in the last few years.

      Hill isn’t even going to pitch much over 100 innings.

      Because he isn’t going to make all of his starts.

  39. James – I know what you are saying, but there is a limit to what we will spend.

    I actually think that if McCarthy can stay healthy or Kazmir rebounds, then to have them as our #5 would be unbelievably strong.

    The nature of Free Agency gives all the cards to the players.
    Long term expensive contracts can hamstring you down the line (as Mark has always said).

    I think we need to re sign Blanton who I was bitterly disappointed to get last year, but did an excellent job and apart from a post season meltdown, performed well.

    As stated before, I would talk to the Padres about a deal for Solarte & Capps. He could be a very cheap option to close.

    1. Watford

      Kazmir has a chronic condition, that affects his control, and McCarthy has only had one healthy season, in his entire career, and he didn’t even pitch well in that one season.

      And that is in a 13 year career.

  40. Winners at meetings? Obviously the Cubs, Red Sox and giants. And Rich Hill. He’s laughing all the way to the bank. Losers. Several. Including the Dodgers. But, off season ain’t over.

    If we do lose our closer and our starting third baseman we take a step back. I wouldn’t count on being lucky again. But, I still think it’s a 5 year plan. I don’t expect much in ’17 as the organization moves toward getting payroll under tax levels. And, I still say that’s a choice, not a necessity. If it was necessary, we wouldn’t be signing so many hamburgers. Hey, hamburgers can be good. I just know better than to expect it.

    Water is great here. Weather is clear. Raiders lost. dammit.

    1. 5 years from the beginning of the 2015 season? Correct? So at mid season we will be at the half way point of the 5 year plan. Yes, I think the plan is coming into focus. The players that have led this organization to 4 of its Division titles are to be rid of and be replaced by cheaper, injury prone signings and unproven kids. That should be a recipe for a title winner soon!

  41. Enjoy yourselves & recharge your batteries.

    Wish I was where you are. It’s grey, damp & gloomy here in UK.

    And the weather’s not great either.

  42. All from http://dodgersway.com/2016/12/08/dodgers-quiet-winter-meetings/?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

    Nearly, every team not named with the suffix ‘Sox’ had a quiet Winter Meetings. That means there are 25+ teams still looking to make moves to patch holes in their respective rosters, there are still plenty of candidates available.

    However, perhaps the expectation of the annual Dodgers trading spree was unreasonable. After all, GM Farhan Zaidi did warn us early on that these Winter Meetings would be quieter than usual due to the uncertainty surrounding the CBA agreement. And to an extent, that’s ok even with numerous holes in the roster the Dodgers still project to be the 3rd best team in baseball in 2017.

  43. Drop the concept of the closer!

    As someone on this board who once said (correctly) “you have to change your way of thinking [about baseball]”.

    BTW Good morning everyone 🙂

  44. 3 years would be four, I mean fair.

    As I said after the ’15 trade deadline… HOLY CRAP! ….. Then it dawned on me. These FAZ guys are De Podesta Part Duex. That’s when I did my first analysis and figured by 2018 they should be able to have the mix they want and have most of the older, deader contracts purged. What has been a bit confusing is their willingness to keep signing the McAndarthy types, and trade, rather than stock, great young talent. Why spend that money as with just a bit of patience you can get to the goal more quickly. And if you’re going to trade young talent, why trade it for guys who can’t hit or are too injured to pitch? If they can’t pitch or hit, they are not a fit.

    And yes Bum, some of us are using the same rebuttals to same arguments being presented.

    How can the Dodgers be the third best team in baseball? As of today, I don’t see them as the third best in the NL, let alone all of baseball. They might even be the third best in the West without Turner and Jansen. Then again, maybe the dreamers are right, Kazmir, Hill and McCarthy with 180+ IP and 15 wins each. I think it’s more likely Puig, Pederson, Seager and Grandal all hit 30 home runs.

  45. I think Michael’s got the right idea, now if us useless old farts with too much time on our hands can simply do that. Probably the best thing to do would be to get a recreational interest in something else and stay away from Dodger blogs…
    how about we start taking classes and try to get as smart as Mark? That won’t work… I think I’ll work on all the lose ends of my life lying around, in preparation for the big day. I have been very good at creating loose ends…

  46. How can Turner’s contract be fair, when they just gave a starting pitcher, that is four or five years older then Turner, that also has a long injury history, just about 10 million less.

    Hill won’t make all of his starts, that is a given, so he won’t even be pitching every five days.

    Turner will be playing in 95 precent of the games, and he is a middle of the order bat, that plays gold glove defense at third.

    Just put yourself in Turner’s place, is that really fair?

    The players right now in history, are getting over paid as a group, probably because all of the years, that the owners were pocketing the money, and way under paying the players, in the past.

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