Dodger’s closer Kenley Jansen has won the Trevor Hoffman NL reliever of the year award and I think it’s time we appreciate him. Kenley is the former catcher that captured our hearts and frustrated batters with his baffling and at times unhittable cutter for the last seven seasons. Jansen is entering his first free agent year and it is very likely he will end up pitching for another club in 2017.
So we should greatly appreciate Jansen’s unique talent especially when Pedro Baez or Grant Dayton are blowing games in the late innings next year. Kenley finished 2016 with a 1.83 ERA and 47 saves in 71 games. He struck out 104 and walked 11 in 68.2 innings pitched. He has a career 13.9 strikeout per nine rate in 409 games pitched.
Earlier this season Jansen broke the all time Dodger record for saves. He has 189 career saves which is the most of any Dodger in history. He’s struck out 632 and posted a 0.893 career WHIP in seven major league seasons with the Dodgers. He was also named to the sporting news NL all-star team. Who can forget his super human effort in game 5 of the NLDS? He led all closers in strikeouts, WHIP and saves.
Jansen was even better in the postseason this year. He pitched 6.1 innings of shutout ball in the NLCS and struck out 10 without walking anyone. He allowed just five hits in the playoffs this year and recorded 3 saves. Jansen is set to hit the free agent market this winter and get a huge payday. Pray he doesn’t sign with the Giants.
You better appreciate Kenley now before he is gone.
Scott, I’ve never had anything but praise for Jansen. I’ve stated several times there’s currently none better in the business. I’ve heard a lot of complaints about him but I remember how it was before he was around for me to focus on those things that show he’s not super-human. Mariano Rivera had a few seasons where his being only human showed with just as many blown saves as Jansen topped. It may be a wise bet that Jansen’s career won’t last as long as Rivera’s, but I wouldn’t bet he won’t near it. The man is elite and him departing is something I’d like to see avoided.
We didn’t appreciate him?
Well, shame on us.
I wonder if he appreciates us as Dodger fans? He’s made over $23 million throwing a baseball a few times a week. Somebody might offer twice that to pitch against us next year. If that happens, how much of our appreciation will he then deserve?
We can accomplish not going to the World Series without him. Let’s see how much of his heart is in LA.
Badger
This doesn’t sound like you, are you having a good day?
I hope I didn’t sound patronizing like Bum did, when he said something like that, to me!
But it doesn’t sound at all like you, so it sounds really funny.
Come on MJ. I asked sincerely about you. You just crossed a line with me.
Ok Bum I will take your word!
Did you see Joc dressed up for Halloween in Bleacher Report?
Here’s the history of closers with # of saves during Friedman’s tenure with the Rays…..
2006…….T. Walker (10) (5 players with 4 or more)
2007…….A. Reyes (26)
2008…….T. Percival (28)
2009…….J. Howell (17)
2010…….R. Soriano (45)
2011…….K. Farnsworth (25)
2012…….F. Rodney (48)
2013…….F. Rodney (37)
2014…….J. McGee (19)
Do you notice anything?
All different closer’s in all of the different years, except Rodney , who was there closer, for two years in a row.
I thought Badger would have said, it doesn’t matter if we appreciate Kenley.
The question is does the front office appreciate Kenley enough, to sign him to a multi year contract?
Badger did say that MJ.
Yeah I see the pattern. I’ve seen other patterns too. “If this happens, that happens. Effectiveness is the measure of truth”. Badgerdamus 2016
That sounds more like you Badger.
You don’t sound like the grumpy old man
type.
I am definitely the grumpy old man type! I wear that badge proudly because I earned it. That being said. I have always appreciated the things Kenley does, but he is going to get, MARK MY WORDS, stupid money tossed at him. I am not going to begrudge him if he takes it. And the reason is because that is what MLB baseball is. Go to the team that makes you rich. It started when players were released from being tied to one team indefinitely. Andrew Freidman does not do those kind of deals, and I also believe the money will be so stupid that Kenley will not even consider giving the Dodgers a home town discount. There is little loyalty in the game to day, and save a few players even less loyalty to the fans who supported you coming up. Chase Utley is still revered in Philadelphia, but he was traded. Free agents who leave the team will be booed. Even guys you have loved for years. Everyone leaves the team eventually. The days of players playing their entire careers with one team are long gone.
I see what you did there!
A great variation?
Recurring success?
Not sure what his time at Tampa implies for the Dodgers, it’s different environments in nearly every sense.
Bluto
We all hope that is true.
Hope what is true?
Where were each of those pitchers two years after these posted years? Were they still pitching at the big league level? I think Rodney still is. Didn’t he pitch for the Angles?
Rodney pitched for the Padres and the Marlins this year. Mid season pick up from the Pads.
Except for the obvious… they were all cheap… but what do you expect from TB?
You use what you have available. Were some of these pitchers traded or moved on in free agency?
Wondering
I can’t imagine JP being a team’s closer.
I thought Jansen was a great pitcher. Might have actually reached a World Series if he had been used more. Right?
Artieboy
I wasn’t happy at times with Kenley a few times in the season, but I can’t take away what Kenley did for us in the post season.
He seemed to get better, the more he pitched.
In this post season, Kenley really looks like a better choice then Chapman.
Because he was able to come in and pitch, at almost anytime he was needed.
Kenley is going to get an even bigger contract, because of the way he pitched in the post season.
He better thank Roberts, for helping him get his contract.
See what happens when you take the 9th inning chains off of him!
Do we get a compensation draft pick if he (or Turner) sign somewhere else?
Yes….they will both be A class free agents with draft compensation
Howell is a free agent……….little chance at resigning since they have younger and cheaper options.
Scott “DOWNER” Andes
In Phoenix today at the ASPE Convention. Steve Garvey was the keynote speaker. I’ve heard all his stories before. I forgot that it was Alston who who moved him to 1B. He had really never played there, but when asked by Walter, he said he did. The rest is history.
Stopped for a while at the AFL game. Glendale couldn’t score. Verdugo looks lost or tired (or both). Bellinger looks ready. He reminds me of Seager with his persona. He was 1-4 and got nailed stealing. He’s got good speed and has close to a .400 OB%. He’ll figure out MLB pitching quickly.
Jansen? FAZ wants him back ,but it depends upon what he is offered by other teams. I don’t want him back at ANY cost. The same is true with Turner. I don’t see either one leaving any money on the table. I have no clue if either will be back.
MLB Trade Rumors said Ruiz is a candidate to be traded shortly!
BTW, this is the best weather I have ever experienced in AZ!
I believe the AFL All-Star game is Saturday on MLB TV.
Mark
I just hope they don’t low ball Turner.
He deserves to be paid, for what he has been for this team.
I don’t think he wants to play for any other team.
I do think he would sign a team friendly contract, but the front office has to be fair too.
Especially after the money wasted on the terrible three.
And I am not saying to sign him to a outrageous contract.
So, what if the Dodgers offer him 3 years/$60 million dollars and someone else offers 4 years/$70 million?
He’s going to follow the money. We are talking about $10 million dollars…
I have no expectations either way!
Mark
Think about the price the Dodgers got for Turners production, since being on the team.
They got a good defensive third baseman, that plays second almost as much as third, because of the shifts.
And he can be moved to first if needed.
Turner is arguable the best hitter on the Dodgers now, and he is the team leader.
Both front offices has made mistakes.
We will still be paying for Olivera, until 2020.
And money was wasted on three very risky pitchers, and up to now, it is a big loss, because they should have known better, with there history, to give a multi year contract to McCarthy and Kazmir.
And I am only making the point about Kazmir and McCarthy, is to show that paying a little over for Turner, is at least worth it.
It will be done by formula. What are the wRC+ and WAR projections for 32-36 year old infielders with X amount of mileage and Y amount of Z medical injuries. That, along with a dozen other unknown to us data variables will be plugged into a algoTurnerithm and multiplied by $/WAR factors projected out to 2021 and an offer will be spit out. Turner has been a bargain. He won’t be going forward. I don’t see FAZ keeping him. The Dodgers will be Greinkied by some team.
Jansen is a bit different as he wasn’t near the $/WAR bargain Turner was. 2.5 WAR for $10.6mm. OK deal for the Dodgers of course, but Turner 4.9 WAR for $5mm was a steal. Frankly I see both cashing in elsewhere as the Guggs pursuit of $/ROI continues. I could be wrong about that but I think I’m getting a better cerebral purchase on what it is FAZ values.
The patterns, if this then that, may change once that desired relationship with luxury tax levels is achieved. I hope so as I am one that wants to see a more Hollywood look to my team. We are at the top of the wealthiest organizations in MLB. Let’s act like it. More entertainment for our fans. What does that mean? To me it means more stars on the field. I want the Utley’s and the Braun’s in their pre 30 years. I want that Dodgers aura to return. I want us in on and all prime years stars. How is that achieved? Well, I don’t know. And these FAZ guys haven’t shown me they know either. I gave them til 2018. I don’t expect much next year. I’m prepared to be surprised.
Badger
I was reading about 2018, and it sounds like the year that is the target year, is really 2019, if what I read was true, because the contracts are through 2018.
If this team doesn’t have Turner next year, there won’t be much of an offense.
We saw how bad the offense was, when Turner started slowly this last year, after coming back from his knee surgery.
I don’t think they will sign Kenley, and I just hope that Kenley doesn’t go to the Giants.
He is suppose to be close with the Giants hitting coach.
Dang It MJ, SSSHHHH, Don’t tell Badgerdamus the 2018/2019 plans.
I have been looking forward to questioning Clairvoyant Badgerdamus about his 2018 prophecies, if FAZ’s “TOTAL DODGER DOMINATION” plan is really scheduled to begin in 2019.
MJ, you will not know what kind of an offense there will be in 2017 until the winter is over and the roster is set. There are players out there who have Turner like numbers. They may trade for a player, or sign a free agent, who knows. The next 3 months will shape the team. Beginning with seeing who is non tendered. Then the winter meetings and seeing if they resign either of their premier free agents. Guys definitely gone……Anderson….Hill……..Reddick…..those are the 3 I am pretty sure they let walk. I have seen story’s where they are going to use Ruiz’s option, then attempt to trade him and have Barnes as Grandal’s back up next year…there is also a story out there that they are seriously considering bringing back Utley.
I really think Hill’s going to be back, if the team feels the blisters can be managed.
Hill seems to want to return, and everything you read about the Front Office says they are bullish on him.
There is also a story out there that the Dodger front office really loves Chapman. So they have options if Kenley walks including Melancon
Michael
There isn’t a lot of options out there, to replace Turner offensive production and plays good defense, at third base.
I think Longoria is the only one they have talked about, but he would really be more expensive I believe.
Also I don’t like bringing a player from the American League, to the National League, because some players, have trouble getting use to the new pitching.
Also Turner is one of the leaders of this team, and he would perfer to stay a Dodger.
I am suprised that you have faith that the front office will make a trade that will replace Turner.
MJ, do you see the word faith anywhere in that comment? No, I doubt they would do that. But there are replacements out there. 27 homers and 92 ribbies? Probably not that much. But if they traded for Longoria it would as you say cost a ton, so I think if they go that route it would end up being a 3 way deal. Might be a moot point as Turner has said he prefers to stay in LA. But if some team throws 4 years 60 million plus at the guy, and the Dodgers counter at 3 for 45, where does he go. Smart money says he takes the longer larger contract even though the money is the same per year. I also said, Turner like numbers. That does not mean they will even consider doing that, but Arenado has superior numbers and is probably winning the gold glove again. Fat chance they could grab that guy. And the clubhouse leader is Adrian, not Turner……..
Now that is hypocritical (of the front office). They love him now but didn’t love him then (3 months ago). Come on. I don’t buy it.
Is that coming from the same mouths that said they were going to be picking up elite players prior to the trade deadline and then traded 3 top 13 prospects for rentals.
In about 3,2,1,…..we’ll hear that they are ‘smart’ and just driving the price up. Like everyone is trembling in fear that the great and powerful FAZ has said they like Chapman. As they will soon learn, 2 can play that game.
Well MJ I picked ’18 last year because I saw a few prospects I figured by that time would be ready to step in. Seager would be in full swing, as would Pederson and Puig. Kershaw will be in a contract year and go Greinke on us and Urias and De Leon would be starting 30+ games each. I figured Ethier and Crawford would possibly be gone, and some money cleared in other places somehow too as that appears to be a priority . I also saw Bellinger ready, and another group with names like Schebler, Verdugo, Buehler, Thompson, Peraza, Montas, Holmes, Cotton, Stripling etc – would be busting down the door. That said 2019 makes sense as some more money will be cleared by then.
Box your obsession with me is getting kinda creepy.
Badger
I don’t know if I read this right, but it sounds like Ethier, Crawford, Agone, McCarthy, and Kazmir, contract ends, at the end of the 2018 season.
Which is when Bryce Harper hits the market, I think.
Michael
I know Agone is important, that is why I stand up for him, even after he regressed this year.
And the fact even with Agone’s regression, he still is a better hitter, then most of the players on this team.
But I think both Agone and Turner, are the leaders on this team, but I think Turner is the more vocal of the two.
Michael
I read that aTurner is the leader of this team, and that is why I say that.
I haven’t been impressed, when they try to be to clever, and make these three team trades.
Could be, but A-Gone is a better connection to the Latin players on this team and there are a lot of them.
Badger,
The plan has always been not to add long term deals to aging stars and build the farm, so that when the bad contracts run out the farm is ready to deliver. They would not trade the Top Propects in 2015 but they made the first round of the playoffs. In 2016, they again made the playoffs and Faz did get a #2 to help Kershaw. Of course, you complained because they didn’t get more pitching in 2015 and of course, you complained when they did. That’s the real trend – you are a professional complainer.
They got to the NL CS and the great one imploded rendering FAZ plan failed. But you always said they wouldn’t try and win now. They did and it failed. They have remained relevant while sticking the farm, but you only focus on the thing you said they would never do – trade prospects for a good starter. Complainers always have something to complain about. Especially professional complainers.
Now you are saying the same thing about 2017. It never ends. You must cut and paste your old comments over and over. It’s really old!
As are your misinterpretations.
I said I didn’t think the team they put together was good enough to win a championship. I was right about that. I said they would win fewer games this year than the year before. I was right about that. I did not think they would go farther in the playoffs this year than they did last year, I was wrong about that.
As for keeping the farm intact I think you must have misremembered the trades of 5 top prospects. There were 3 of those traded prospects playing and playing well in the Major Leagues this year.
My interpretation of “going for it” is different than yours.
plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose
If you mean the second verse was the same as the first I most certainly agree. If you don’t – then I have no opinion about that.
Badger
I guess it could be still in 2018, because at least they know most will come off the payroll in 2019.
‘They got to the NL CS and the great one imploded rendering FAZ plan failed.’
So which is it today? ‘Give him a blank check’ or is it ‘trade him for prospects’
Guess your right whichever way it happens.
Kershaw and Jansen were the reason they won the first series but that was quickly forgotten.
IF KERSHAW IS KEEPING THE ‘great’ FAZ from reaching their goal then trade his ass.
They will rue the day that happens but hey what better way to run the 3 ‘letter’ circus out of town.
It seems like we have mainly everyday players, that hit from the left side, and pitchers.
The front office is going to have to trade some of these prospects, to get the type of players we need, that we don’t have in our system.
I think Friedman gained some of his best prospects, from trade deadline deals.
Because I think that the Rays didn’t get many players, that were higher in the draft, because they had been good, before these last two years.
i think Kenley should be made a starter…he pitcher 3 inning in that game ..that almost as good as Kenta Maeda. did in most of his games..Kenley might be a better started then our 3 -4-5
Seems like the Yankees tried that with Joba Chamberlain…it was a disaster….
Hill was ONLY a #2 on this team because this starting rotation sucked. None of the last 8 teams he played for looked upon him as a #2. A 12 year career of which he has accounted a total of………….wait for it……………….38 wins. WITH 12 OF THEM COMING THIS YEAR….. in his contract year. He is injury prone so that is enticing to the bargain bin shoppers.
Let’s keep lowering the bar for the great FAZ. That’s what champions are made of.
On a slightly different theme, does anyone else like Carter Capps?
He is now with the Padres, having been involved in the Cashner trade with Miami.
He is just coming back from TJ surgery so there is risk involved, but he is expected to be ready for ST.
I was always very impressed with him, and could see him as a low cost option 8th inning guy, setting things up for Kenley or whoever?
I would resign Blanton as I was totally wrong about him, and thought he did a sterling job (until he didn’t).
I wouldn’t try and resign Baez, but I think Capps has a higher ceiling.
He was very good in 2015 before injury.
From what I can see, he is under team control for two more years.
Would it take much to get him?
Watford
I hope you didn’t think I wasn’t backing you, because I don’t want to trade Joc right now.
I, like you, do know what I see, and that is why I don’t buy some saber metric values.
Hi MJ
No I certainly wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth.
Trading Joc is my idea.
I ask you this, would you rather see the FA Dexter Fowler (who I championed last off season) Leading Off which has been a decade long hole for us, and playing CFnext year, or more of the same?
Some will say Joc hasn’t reached his potential yet, I say he has, much like Puig did in 2013. I trade him now.
Way off there Watford. Joc has a little more growing to do, and he did a lot of it this year. He has more power than Fowler, in my mind he is just as good defensively and at age 24 is going to be a better player than Fowler ever will be. I think they are probably leaning towards putting Toles in the leadoff spot once Utley has gone. Corner OF with great speed and also much younger than Fowler, who they would have to sign to a lucrative free agent contract, which this FO has not done with a position player yet, and they would probably be out a draft pick. I think they stay in house, thin out the OF log jam, and if they move any one that young Puig is at the top of their list. Not that I would agree with that move either…Fowler is 30 years old………and most likely the Cubs try hard to retain the guy.
Watford
I always liked Fowler, but I know he wanted to be back with the Cubs.
He actually wasn’t signed right before the season started, and another team was going to sign him, and at the last minute the Cubs offered him a contact, and Fowler, went with the Cubs.
Baez is not a free agent. Although it seems like he has been with the team for IONS, he is arbitration eligable
Sorry Michael – he is the same as Capps in that regard then.
I’d swap them in a heartbeat….
I understand. Baez has not had a history of injury’s , but he is slower than a snail in that delivery of his. Still throws in the very high 90’s and clips 100 now and then. But they guy is totally frustrating to watch. The forgotten man in all the conversations I have seen is Carlos Frias. Do they still want him as a starter, or is he the projected long relief guy. If healthy, he has a live arm.
Watford
I am not familar with Capps, but I think one of our relivers we got at the trade deadline, was with the Marlins to at one point in this last season.
Conversation in the Hot Stove season is always fun. And we all have our own ideas about which way they will go. Again, we have no clue what the FO is planning or not planning. There will be surprises no doubt. And then again maybe none at all. They will stick to the plan which is to be competitive while building towards the dynasty they hope will come down the road. I did read a Friedman interview where he said the 2017 Dodgers will be constructed pretty much like the 2016 team. That signals to me some more bargain bin pickups. Then again maybe they do not go that route. Like I said, we will find out more over the next 3 months and there will be a lot of angst, and nervousness. When the team breaks camp after spring, only then will the picture be clear. Getting attached to players in this day and age is counter productive.
Take your point about power & age but I’m not sure Joc has the ceiling that you see.
That’s what makes the game so interesting. We all see things differently. I’m not sure Joc has the desire to hit singles, I think he sees himself as a HR hitter. I want him to hit according to the situation of the game.
I like Toles, but want to see a larger sample before I’m totally sold (Luis Cruz anyone?).
I don’t mind Fowler @ 30. He looks ok to me.
Guess I’m just not a Joc fan but more than happy for him to prove me wrong.
Had the same feelings about Puig & the jury is certainly out on him.
When is the Series over so we can get to the important things, like tearing FAZ a new one?
Actually, FAZ has done no worse than any previous GM in building a team. I am angered that he has had more assets with which to do it, yet has done no better. Maybe I am wrong about the access to more assets he might have had.
Wondering
What I don’t understand is why did our payroll go to the highest, in the first year, this front office was here.
The 2015 pay roll was the highest pay roll that we have had, since the new owners took over.
I know they signed Olivera, but why was that payroll the highest, when they were brought here, to get it down?
I haven’t seen any comments on it yet so just FYI:
Mets closer(94 saves last 2 years) has been arrested on domestic violence charges. He very well could be suspended and jailed and if he ins’t a US citizen, he living and working in the US could be terminated.
Point being a new team could be in on Kenley.
I thoroughly dislike the Domestic Violence thing. People who practice that certainly should be punished, but our justice system forgets justice and just automatically considers the man guilty. Cops admit it, they are just following orders. And the majority of women who are hurt bring it on themselves in that they won’t testify against the bad guy and go right back to him as soon as they can. I say if they get a chance to put him away and they won’t do it, they deserve their next beating. Not really, but you know what I mean. Guy does something, throw him in jail; she goes back to him, throw her in jail…
I am hoping Joc matures and recognizes how valuable he can be as a better 1 and 2 strike hitter. I said before I would give him that opportunity to unload on strike one if its in his wheelhouse but he needs to become a “put the ball in play” hitter later in the count. If he can do that he will add a lot of zeros in a contract when he hits FA. I would rather he was a .280 hitter with 20 home runs than a .246 hitter with 25.
I think there will be a number of teams in on Jansen. Yeah, the Mets have been added to the list.
I’m not yet sold on Toles as leadoff. If he shows it in ST, then I guess we go for it. I’d have plan B.
I’m hoping for a Game 7.
Badger
The thing is that saber metrics think OPS is the best value of what a player contributes offensively to there team.
Corey has the highest ops on the team, which make sense.
But here are the next few players who rank under Corey, for providing offense.
Ops says that Joc had the second highest offensive production on the team.
Turner ranks third.
And Grandal ranks fourth.
I think Joc and Grandal rank this high, only because sabers count walls, as the same as a hit.
We know walks don’t score a runner from third or second, like a hit does.
And they count strike outs, as the same as any other out.
And we know strike outs
don’t move runners into scoring position.
And they don’t score a run like a grounder to the right side can, or a sac fly.
The formula for OPS is slugging and OBA.
Why would Joc and Grandal, want to change?
OPS is a good stat. It gives credit for singles. It gives credit for walks. And it gives extra credit for extra-base hits. It defines a players offensive production. What’s not to like? If you’re a big fan of the so-called “productive out” you’re going to have to take your case to the Lords of Baseball and talk them into changing the rules. The only “productive outs” they recognize are the sacrifice bunt and sacrifice fly and both of these items are covered in OPS as the batter is not charged for the out he actually made. When a hitter grounds out with a full swing, some people are skeptical he grounded out deliberately which is why he is not given credit for a sacrifice when it happens. That’s the way it is, get the rules changed if you can…
Wondering
Some players are concerned more about helping there team win the game.
When there is runners in scoring position, if a hitter has two strikes, most players cut down there swing to get the runners home, but Joc and Grandal don’t usually do that.
I am just saying that OPS doesn’t tell the whole story.
Because hitters can strike out a lot, and there not penalized for that.
And walks are considered the same as a hit, but a walk isn’t the same as a hit.
If you needed a player to get a runner home from scoring position, would Joc and Grandal be at the top of your list, that could get the run home?
Joc is not better hitter then Turner, and that is what OPS shows between these two hitters.
I’m aware of all of that MJ.
It’s my opinion that if Joc hit .280 or better, his OPS would go up.
I’ve been a strong supporter of OBP since I was in high school. I played it and I coached it. I’ve been a strong supporter of OPS since I first heard about it.
I’m also a believer in runs scored. I’d like to see Pederson score more. I believe if he didn’t strike out so much, and still walked, he could score 90 runs. He would have to be our everyday centerfielder for that to happen, which I would do.
Badger
I figured everyone here knew that formula.
I don’t think Joc nor Grandal were the best hitters on our team, or provided what that OPS makes them them look like they provided.
I agree Joc and Grandal hitting at a higher average, would help much more offensively, to the team.
Any player is going to have more hits per at bat, then HRs per at bat, even when they are swinging hard everytime.
Because it is harder to hit a HR then get a hit.
This OPS doesn’t show the whole picture.
I know almost half of Joc’s HRs, were solo HRs, and Grandal is probably like that too.
If Joc and Grandal are hitting at a higher average, they will also probably have more consistent contact.
And that will help them to be more productive on offense.
And if Roberts, thought these two were that effectively productive, they wouldn’t be hitting lower in the line up.
I just think OPS isn’t accurate as some think.
If there was a runner on third, with less then two outs, Joc or Grandal, wouldn’t be at the top of most people’s list, of the top players on this team, that would get the run home.
Because most of the time they would be swinging way to hard, when even only a sac fly, or a hit, or even a grounder to the right side of the would get the run home.
And it isn’t only against lefties, that either of these players strike out against.
They both strike out to much even against rightie pitchers.
The reason there offense looks better, is because they are not penalized enough with strike outs.
And there walks look like hits, in this formula, when they are not hits.
Hits move runners, and hit runners in, unlike a walk!
Joc’s ops is higher than others because he rarely faced lefties.
I have a different perspective on Joc Badger. I think he needs to look more for a no-count pitch that he can hit to the left side. He takes those pitches because he wants to pull a ball with his first swing IMHO.
I think he battles as well as most with 2 strikes. A pitcher usually has to make 3 more pitches after they get an 0-2 count on Joc.
I would like to see that too Bum. But that just isn’t who he is. He strikes out WAY too often and that happens because he is not a “put the ball in play” hitter often enough. 175 K’s last year in 585 PA’s, 130 in 476 PA’s this year. He has a lot of two strike counts and it’s my opinion that happens because of his overswing. Shorten up and it will cut down on swings that miss.
With Roberts and his implementation of FAZometrics I expect Joc remains a platoon player. He needs to show he can OPS against lh pitchers and .627 against lh starters this year was below his career average. Joc is not an every day player until he improves that number. I think that’s a shame as he’s our best defender out there. Of course we would rather have Fowler’s numbers. But he’s the Cubs centerfielder.
According to a story I read, that is not going to be the case Badger. Roberts said he expects Joc to play more against LH pitching next year…….was in Dodger Blue I think….but I definitely read that
I hope you’re right. Joc is 25 next year, in his prime. More experience against lh pitchers in ’17 will set him up for more success in ’18-’20.
Michael
I hope more of the regular young players get that chance, just to see what they do against lefties.
Did you see the results they gave on Joc against lefties in that article?
Joc struck out in every at bat, but two, where he got hits.
It wasn’t a very good sample for Joc’s case against lefties, but I hope all of the young players get a chance, to play almost everyday, to see what we got.
Badger
In that article that Michael is talking about in Bleacher Report, it gives what Joc did against lefties in the post season, and he struck out in every at bat, but two at bats, where he got hits.
Bum
I will give credit to Joc at times he will fight with two strikes, but that is not what a does consistently.
There has been to many times when Joc comes up with runners in scoring position, and is still swinging from his heels, with two strikes.
His clutch stats are in negative numbers and is Oswing% is way too high for my liking. How he ended up with such a positive WAR number doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. Oh well. What do I know. I picked the Cubs to beat the Jays.
Badger
Your prediction would win most coin tosses, so it is not that bad.
Sure got quiet in here
Well the season officially ends today and thus begins the off season shuffle. I talked to an inside source in San Francisco who said the Giants will nab a big name reliever and will make an offer to Kenley. There will be Cespedes rumors too. I also think they will show interest in Turner. Whatever. It’s a long winter.
Wouldn’t be at all surprised to lose both Kenley and Turner. Can you imagine the angst here if the Giants signed them?
I don’t think we get Kenley, but they better get Turner, or it will be a long season next year!
Wondering
Did you take French in school?
No. Latin.
Wondering
That is probably better, since many of our words, are derived from that.
Not much to say. All of the FAZophants are hoping the Indians win tonight as it would not be good for Epstein to win his 3rd Championships. That trade with Oakland for A. Russell paid off for them though. 95 RBI’s during the season and 6 last night.
Had 2 homers and 4 ribbies in the Dodgers series. Now in the WS has a homer and 8 RBI’s. Not too shabby for a 22 y/o.
I wonder how many seasons it would have taken Reddick to surpass 95 RBI’s?
Don’t know about any FAZophants, but I like the Cubs.
Than my message was not aimed at you. Going into the series (of which I believe you and I both were pulling for the Indians to get to the Series) I was pulling for the Indians but now, after seeing how much the fans of Chicago are starved for their Cubbies to win, I’m kinda hoping they win tonight. Of course it would give Epstein another title which would put him in elite company. Not that he needed any help.
But 2, 3 to zip……well at some point we start losing count.
Chili
I want the Indians to win tonight, because they are the underdogs, and I am sick of hearing about the Cubs.
You could tell that that game last night, wasn’t going to be the Indians game, after that misplay in the outfield.
The Indians rightfielder hasn’t played very good defense in this series, and I think that ball dropping last night, was because of there rightfielder.
He went in front off there centerfielder, but he didn’t catch the ball.
And by doing that, he screened the centerfielder out.
He should have been backing the centerfielder up, if he wasn’t going to catch that ball.
I was thinking about how lucky Russell has been in the post season, right before he hit that slam.
He hit those two HRs off the Dodgers on a hanger, and a fastball, right down the middle of the plate.
He was the Cubs number seven and eight hitter, in our series.
But I have to give him credit, because I don’t know if our number seven and eight hitters, would do the same.
The ball he hit last night, also leaked into the middle of the plate too.
I do think the Indians will win tonight, since they have there best pitcher going.
The Indians hit Hendricks pretty well, in there first game against him.
They didn’t try to do to much, they just took Hendricks pitches to the opposite field, like a team is suppose to do against a pitcher like Hendricks.
Understand your logic.
I will say that most home runs are pitches left out over the plate. Most batters will get at least one pitch per at bat that they can hit hard. It’s what they do with that pitch will determine the success of their AB.
I believe Russell hit 5th most of the season for the Cubs. He hit 6th last night but that is primarily because they batted the DH 2nd, pushing everyone back a slot.
I think the Cubs will win tonight. Will be surprised if the Cubs lose a 3rd time to Kluber within 8 days. He’s good but he should not surprise anybody. That’s just my 2 cents.
Chili
That is why I had to give him credit.
I don’t know if our hitters got a lot of hangers to hit, or fastballs, right down the middle of the plate.
The Indians haven’t been there in a while either.
And most of those people in the crowds in Chicago, had to be pretty well off, to be able to buy tickets to those games, so I don’t feel they are the Cubs biggest fans.
A fan is a fan. Sure you will have some bandwagon jumpers but the Cubs fan base reaches to ALL parts of this continent. That’s primarily because of the WGN days of the 70’s, 80’s & 90’s. Keep in mind that NO ONE alive has ever seen them win a World Series. Whichever team wins tonight there will be some serious partying and chaos….just 10 times more so if Chicago wins.
5 years ago today Frank McCourt agreed to sell the Dodgers. I only know this because it came up as a memory on my Facebook page this morning. Like/hate McCourt or Gugs I don’t think anyone can say the team isn’t in a better position now.
On Jansen: They will grienke him, and probably lose him. We may be underestimating the value of the 9th inning guys. It shouldn’t be this way, but they set up the entire bullpen. I think it goes beyond that one inning. I can see the entire bullpen being worse without Jansen. If there was someone on the roster who can do a decent job, then we might be ok without him. How about a failed starter? Wood? He could be another Zack Britton. It won’t be Baez. He’s not good enough. Maybe Sborz gets the shot and they take him out of a starters’ role. That sounds intriguing. He has the mentality for it. Remember how the late innings bit the giants this year. Just DON’T LET HIM GO THE THE giants. Without Jansen, spring training will we a great audition for someone. The team is not strong enough to overcome the loss of a solid closer, Jansen or whomever. But as Badger said, we didn’t win with him, so if winning the big prize is the goal and everything else a singular failure, who cares? Once again, though, I just want to beat the giants, and probably the best way to do that is to keep Jansen and/or not let the giants have him.
Bobbie 17
Your right about closers and the bullpen.
The starting pitching rotation also plays into how well a bullpen does too.
If the front office intends on getting the luxary tax down, it doesn’t look like they can sign Turner and Kenley
And we need a number two starter just as bad as we need to keep Turner and Kenley, to make this team better next year.
I still don’t understand why the front office in there first year with the team, made the payroll go up even higher then it has ever been, if they were hired partly to get the team under the luxary tax.
Maybe Mark will refresh us on that.
I don’t think the team in 2015 which was the team with the highest payroll to date, was much better, or at all better, then the team in the previous year, so why did the payroll go up then?
Watch the highlights of pitcher Otani from Japan. Dodgers Digest. 21 years old. Hits too and plays outfield. Nasty breaking ball. Let’s get him.
Ok.
Badger
Take a look at the review on Agone in True Blue LA.
Look at the percentage of runners, Agone hit in this year.
I want to say the Dodgers had him signed before he went to the Japanese league, but everyone over there through a fit about him not following the tradition/duty of playing in Japan first. He may have been someone else but I want to think it was Otani.
I’m not a cub fan but I’m rooting for them to win tonite. After 108 years it’s about time they won the WS don’t you think?
Think about it: The last time they won, the Titanic wasn’t even built. There may be one or two people in the ENTIRE world still alive born then or before. WW I hadn’t started. etc etc.
I’m not tired about hearing about the Cubs as some are here. They had the best record in baseball for 162 games and deserve to not only be in the WS but also to WIN it. JMO.
MJ, I’m not going to push you anymore about computers but I just wanted to tell you I’m making this post on my new (to me) MAC laptop which I bought off EBAY Sunday morning for $68.01 plus $11.95 shipping from another old gentleman in his 70s and the mail woman just delivered less than an hour ago. I have never used a MAC before and I’m sure I’ll run into some differences, but it is similar enough to a PC that I don’t think you’d have trouble learning how to use either. But all the advantages still favor PC. Why is MAC still in business? I don’t know, it must be snob appeal…
Wondering
You don’t bother me at all.
How recent is your new computer.
I would be touting that, deal, because that is a very good deal.
I’m sure once you get better aquatinted with your new computer, you might see something you like about Apple.
You sound like you like good challenges.
It was made in 2008 but the previous owner just put in an updated operating system, Lion 10.7.2. I’m still happy with the price. All my computers were bought used but the others cost 3 or 4 times as much.
Wondering
Good Job!
Why can’t the Dodgers have a 3B who runs like that?
Two runs on the speed of the 3B…wow!
I’ll go on record – I don’t pull Hendricks there.
Back from PHX. Watching the Cubs take control and then try and blow it.
A few observations:
1. Joc Pederson improved in most batting categories: He raised his BA by 36 points. He raised his OB% by 6 points. He raised his slugging by 78 points and his OPS by 84 points. He had fewer AB’s, mostly against LH pitching where he went from hitting .216 verses LH’ers to just .125 last year. I think he has to play everyday and if he does, I think he will improve more… even if it’s only 10% that would be significant. I was never that high on Joc but I have had to change my outlook. I think one day and it might be 2017… he will hit 35 HR and drive in 90+. Let him grow. Let him play, Doc.
2. I thing the Dodgers will lose Kenley Jansen, but I think they will sign or trade for up to three closers. I can see them with Mark Melancon, Wade Davis and Greg Holland. Chapman and Jansen are going to be crazy expensive. I’d stockpile those three instead. Holland and Melancon are free agents who do not require compensation and Davis could be had in a trade. The Royals need to get younger and move some age. Davis is not old but his contract is up next year. I think it’s time to try 3 closers and bring them in earlier.
3. Cody Bellinger (.311) is doing very well in the AFL as is Willie Calhoun (.320). I would try and trade Adrian Gonzalez (it has been suggested to SD – which would be a cool place to end his career). If Bellinger isn’t ready, put SVS and Ethier there until he is. Folks, Calhoun and Bellinger are about ready – they are coming… get ready! Alex Verdugo? No so much – he’s hitting .140 in the AFL.
4. At the end of Yasiel Puig’s first season, I said he had more talent than any player I have ever seen. I also said I would have traded him for Stanton. So, it’s Puig, Hernandez and Kazmir to Milwaukee for Ryan Braun. We pay Braun. They pay the others.
5. I think some idiot is going to give Turner a 5 year deal at $90 to $100 million. I’ll take the draft pick. Thank you! I want to keep Seager at SS, but if Turner walks, it’s possible the Dodgers could get a SS and send Seager to 3B. I’ve suggested Simmons in the past!
How about this lineup next year:
1. Toles RF
2. Seager 3B
3. Braun LF
4. Ethier / SVS 1B
5. Grandal C
6. Pederson CF
7. Simmons SS
8. Kendrick 2B
Just ideas – don’t shoot the messenger.
It won’t haopen.
Hopefully the Dodgers won’t do to Corey, that the Angels initially did with Trout.
Trout and Corey, and
these type of players, get to play where they are most comfotable at.
Trouts offense went down, when he was put in leftfield.
That could happen to Corey.
He is our franchise player.
But not a bad ideal Mark.
Damn! I must be getting as crazy as you are, but I like all those ideas…
U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-A-B-L-E!
Dumb.
The Cubs don’t deserve to win this game.
That rain delay gave them an advantage over the Indians.