It’s hard to believe that the Giants even made it as far as they did this year. I use the word even because as you are probably well aware 2016 is an even year and the stupid Giants have won the World Series in every even numbered season since 2010. For the first time in an even numbered year since then, the Giants will not win the World Series.
Say that a few times before smiling for joy. Let it run off of your tongue. The Cubs came from behind to score four runs in the top of the ninth inning in game 4 of the NLDS against the Giants to defeat San Francisco by a 6-5 score and eliminate the pumpkin colored foes from the postseason. Even better yet, they did it at At&t Park in front of thousands of sad Giants fans.
Before the Cub’s game 4 win on Tuesday night it looked like things were developing like they normally would in an even year. I couldn’t believe it myself, but I knew in the back of my mind that the horrifying possibility could happen again. The Giants had another shot at winning a fourth World Series championship and it frustrated me more than anything.
The Giants got off to the best start in baseball at the all-star break posting a 57-33 record, and then they collapsed finishing the second half with the worst record (30-42) in baseball allowing the Dodgers to make up over 8 games in the standings.
“At that point I thought, let’s go with a guy that’s been closing games,” ~ Bruce Bochy
Like 2014, the Dodgers won the NL West title and the Giants finished second. The Dodgers had a chance to knock their bitter rivals out of the postseason in the final series of the regular season at At&t Park. Unfortunately the Dodgers deemed those games unimportant and gave them away. They thought it was more important to use those games to experiment with players for the postseason roster. So the Giants easily swept the Dodgers and snuck into the playoffs as the second wild card again.
This year the Giants would face much stiffer competition in the wild card game than Edinson Volquez and the Pirates. Madison Bumgarner would have to beat Noah Syndergaard and the New York Mets at Citi Field. I knew it would be a tougher game and hoped the Mets would knock them out, but deep in the labyrinth of my brain I knew what the outcome would be.
So when utility guy Conor Gillaspie smacked a ninth-inning three-run home run off of New York closer Jeurys Familia to break a scoreless tie, I just nodded my head in silence and cringed. Bumgarner who is somehow an unstoppable October pitching machine tossed another complete game shutout in the NL Wild Card game. Just like that the annoying Giants were heading to the NLDS to face the Cubs. It seemed almost unimaginable.
Consider this; the Giants almost forced a game 5 with the Cubs. That’s right they were only 3 outs away from sending the series back to Chicago. If they had they probably would have won. I bet you they would have. I bet you that Johnny Cueto would have twirled his way to a 4-hit shutout and somebody would have come up with a two-run triple in the eighth inning to give the Giants the win.
Trevor Brown probably would have blooped a single into shallow center field to score Angel Pagan, or Joe Panik would have hit a go-ahead home run or something. You know why? Because everything the Giants do in the postseason turns up roses. Everything the Dodgers do in the postseason turns up crap. It’s like the Giants have the Midas touch in the playoffs while the Dodgers have to climb a mountain full of turds ever year.
So when the Giants lost the first two games at Wrigley Field, I was happy but had trepidations. Sure it was nice, but we had been there before. Then the Giants came from behind in game 3 in a wild 13-inning win to stave off elimination again and win their tenth consecutive elimination game. Oh not again.
So when I checked the score of game 4 on Tuesday night and saw Matt Moore mowing down Chicago hitters and the Giants with a 5-2 lead in the ninth inning I figured that we were headed towards another disgusting San Francisco championship. Then the Giants bullpen imploded for the 45th time this year and just like that….the Giants were gone.
Then the Cuban Missle finished those jerks off for good.
The ninth-inning bullpen collapse had everything. It had five doomed relievers, despondent Giants fans and a throwing error from Brandon Crawford that extended the inning for the Cubs. It was so much fun to watch.
It Kind of Sucks ~ Brandon Crawford
It’s good for the Giants fans to experience this, those spoiled bastards. It’s good for them to know that things aren’t going to go their way every single even year. Think about how close we came to another Giants title though. Think about how the Giants almost got to the NLCS with just two aces, no bullpen and a skeleton lineup.
All I have to say is…the Giants are done man! Relish this Dodger fans. Oh and this happened on Tuesday as well…..
Now we just need to beat the damn Nationals one more time. Enjoy the golf courses San Francisco!
THE GIANTS ARE DONE, MAN! THE GIANTS ARE DONE, MAN! I love the sound. giants’ weenies who have won championships with seeing eye hits in the 9th inning got the ultimate pay back. Let’s hope that the bad karma continues for, like, forever, or at least for my lifetime. The Cubs 9th inning had a few poor contact hits. Good for them. Now let the bad karma start for them too. On our game: that was probably the gutsiest I have seen Kershaw. Not the best performance, but he left it all out there. I think that time off, more than the injury, left him without his best stuff and stamina. Although the game tomorrow is anticlimactic for me (because the giants cannot beat us in the standings, postseason or anywhere) Roberts might still be able to pull another rabbit out of the hat. He has some rested pitchers to follow Hill. Stripling, Dayton, Urias. Rookies all. But rested. Maybe they don’t know they are not supposed to be any good. It would be nice to get the long ball against Scherzer. Maybe AGon still has some gas in the tank. Pederson? He had a good game yesterday. Who knows? Maybe Utley. It will probably come down to pitching again, but I don’t expect a low scoring game. It’s all gravy from here. Frosting on the cake. THE GIANTS ARE DONE, MAN. THEY ARE DONE!!!!!
Another thought: the play that Utley made to end the game was fantastic. He should play 2d next year if he wants to stick around. Someone will have to be a whole lot better than he is to beat him out.
I would like Chase Utley on the team next year, but I can’t see him as a starter. He could be utility at 2B, 1B, 3B and maybe a good pinch hitter.
Just for leadership alone.
Hill starting on Thursday….according to Dodger nation….
Just like Kershaw had to start yesterday, Hill has to start tomorrow.
1. It’s always about the money. Write this down: The payroll will go down again next year. It was $291 Million Last year. It is about $30 million less this year and it will likely come down another $30 million next year as the youth movement is in full swing. They are not going to keep paying $30 to $50 million in luxury tax either.
2. For the record, Rich Hill is 12-5 this year with a 2.12 ERA. In 110 Innings, he has allowed 77 hits and struck out 129. Including the HR in his last game, he has only allowed 5 total HR’s this year. It’s a no-brainer – he has to start and in all likelihood, he will do well. Out of 20 starts he only has 3 games in which he allowed more than 3 runs! I can’t imagine why we should be very happy to have him start. This is why FAZ gave up 3 good prospects. Rich Hill: earn your next contract!
Kind a the way I feel about Jansen. He came back good last night though.
1958
Your the one that called that!
To lower payroll they have to move some of the deadweight on the pitching staff. Anderson is gone. McCarthy needs to be gone. Good luck moving Kazmir.
Andre may approve a deal to a good team. Not too many other places to slash payroll until they get Crawford and Ethier off the books.
Turner needs to be paid.
I’d be more willing to keep and pay Turner if he had better stats vs leftys. Don’t get why a good right handed hitter not tearing up leftys. Weird.
Don’t often agree with Pete Rose but he summed up the Giants bullpen was “stinko.” Bochy, one of the most respected managers in the game pulled a kid who was cruising and sent one weak pitcher after another out to the mound. I’d have to give Dave a “D” for handling the bullpen yesterday, but Bochy is going to have to repeat the course.
Rich Hill? I don’t know. I do know that regular season numbers mean nothing in the playoffs. The cream rises, but there always seems to be one player who plays out of their heads and one or two stars who are goats. That’s why they play the game.
Suspense filled game yesterday, and it didn’t have to be, and Kersh could have gotten the win, if BP was just handled a little different. Blanton right away not after the runs were scored. Anyway was a good out come and was fun watching SF lose it in the 9th. Figured something like the BP melt down was gonna happen sooner rather then later. Well, I hoped, and it came true…YAY. Go Dodgers
Be nice to get 1 decent dominating performance from 1 of our starters…starting tomorrow maybe.
1958
I sure wouldn’t mind a dominating start from our starter.
Hey 1958, what was wrong with Kershaws performance yesterday? I thought he was as good as you could expect on three days rest.
Yesterday was a prime example of why ERA means very little. Kersh struggled a bit especially in the 1st inning(27 pitches?) but them settled down until he went over 100 pitches in the 7th on short rest.
I’ve always been a proponent of changing the ERA. Yes, he left with the bases loaded and the runners on were his responsibility but should he be 100% responsible or should some of that responsibility for letting the runners score be on the bullpen?
I think it should. Perhaps 50-50 or 75-25? It would decrease the SP ERA and increase the RP ERA. JMO.
I think outgoing pitcher should be responsible for any runners left in scoring position, but the reliever should be responsible for keeping runner on first from scoring.
They have that inherited runners stat for relievers, and that is an important stat.
True, I didn’t think that 1 through, just always thinking Kersh gonna be dominant. He didn’t have his best stuff or control but definitely competed like a champion. My bad, thanks for pointing it out. Really.
I agree with Mark on Utley. You can keep him as a leader and part timer, but we need a second baseman. Will Johnson be the one?
From what I understand about Chase, he wants to be a starting player next season on a contending team. I love the guy, his professionalism, leadership, the way he has helped Corey this season, etc. Just an all around super individual.
However I don’t believe he would want to come back if he was going to be platooned like this year(pretty poor stats vs LHP).
I think Ethier could be very valuable as a fourth outfielder and pinch hitter next year. Keep him.
It will be a crowded outfield again next year though.
I think Trace has a bigger upside (especially since he has some pop from the RH side.)
But you can’t trade Ethier without his consent.
The Nats have a 259 batting average in series compared to Dodgers 221. The Dodgers era in series is 5.40 and the Nats at 3.86. The Dodgers have fielded at 984 clip and nats a 1000. The nats will be home with their ace. I have a feeling the Nats will take the series. I hope i’m wrong. Hill or Urias.
Again with the Batting Average!
What’s with this place??!???!
I think the series has been exceedingly even. Nats have home field, so that probably gives them the slight edge. Scherzer is on regular rest (I think) and that helps too.
It’s below you. Don’t know why you bother.
A hit or a walk?
This could happen:
Runners on first and second, 2 out. Batter 1 gets a basehit to right field that scores 1, ball goes between right fielder’s legs and second runner scores. Batter-runner on his way to third, relay throw from right field goes into the seats. Batter runner goes home. 3 runs score. Next batter strikes out to end the inning.
Same scenario, runners on first and second 2 outs – batter 2 walks, next batter strikes out. No runs score.
Getting hits matters.
Nobody saying it doesn’t matter! That’s a false argument. OPS counts hits! And BA doesn’t account for runs produced.
We are discussing stats to document or define a players worth.
In that hypothetical, why should we reward batter 1 for errors? That’s not a skill one can replicate easily. What happens if the next time through the order the same batter hits the same ball to the same play on the field, but this time it’s fielded cleanly? Should he be docked because it didn’t lead to runs?
How’s this for a silly hypothetical:
Batter 1 battles and engages pitcher 1 in a 30 pitch at bat. Pitcher 1 is SOOOOO frustrated he throws a fastball right down the middle to the next hitter who homers.
Should we give more value to the walk that led to the HR?
Would batting average do so? OPS would only tangentially.
“Again with batting average” …. followed by not one or two, but multiple question marks and exclamation points.
I gave you reason why a hit, which improves batting average, can be more valuable than a walk, which improves OBP, but produces no runs. I believe putting the ball in play, especially via a hit, is a good thing. I thought I was answering your question. Maybe I shouldn’t try to do that. I noticed nobody else did.
The reason no-one else did could very well be because there isn’t a great defense for BA, no?
Again, OPS counts hits. It values hits!
Your example showed why a hit can be more valuable. True. Mine showed why a walk can be more valuable. OPS counts BOTH.
The multiple exclamations and question marks were for style, call it poetic license?
A good point about walks that I haven’t seen mentioned is simply that they are not outs. A walk may not get a run in but it doesn’t end the inning and well may allow the next hitter to get a hit and drive in a run.
Oh Wondering.
I have that in another thread with these guys (one guy who thought Kemp had more value than a bag of rocks.)
Yes, only 27 outs. The more times you are up and not making an out, the greater the chance of a positive outcome. If you can create a stat that tries to make “not making outs” a skill, then you have a stat that can maximize positive outcomes.
Or so the theory goes.
“OPS counts hits” – I am aware of that. It counts walks too. I find hits more valuable. A lot more action can result from a hit. The ball goes maybe to the outfield wall, maybe over it. Guys can be flying around the bases, throws can be flying over cutoff men, lots of things can happen. A walk? Guy goes to first, the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher, The End. And I’m a guy who has played and coached OBP my whole life. My high school coach in Orange County in ’64 pounded it into our heads – “don’t make an out”. OPS is relatively new of course, but OBP sure isn’t.
I like hits. Lots of them. 3 hits in a row could produce a possible 3 runs. 3 walks and the bases are loaded, no runs. A hit then can produce as many as 4 runs, another walk 1.
I like walks too. I prefer hits. Lots of them.
Everything you said is great and true.
Hits are wonderful. A hard hit into a gap. Epic. A homerun is way more valuable than a walk. Even a lucky one.
Do you find all hits more valuable? Or just some?
Here’s the issues I have with only counting hits. You are only counting hits. Is a weak dribbler to a 3rd basemen playing deep a good hit? Is it worth as much as a walk? Probably not. How about a hit that doesn’t advance any runners, isn’t that the same as a walk? Why not count a walk then?
But OPS values walks the same as hits, which is not always true as Badger pointed out in a highly exaggerated example. Let’s say 2nd and 3rd, one out. A walk puts the double play in order, a hit scores two runs. But of course, BA with men on is more important than just BA. I don’t think one stat captures a hitter’s value completely.
No, I don’t think OPS values a walk the same as a hit. The stat is On Base plus SLUGGING….so the stat factors the TOTAL BASES of each hit. Doubles, triples and home runs raise the value of that statistic more so than if they were all singles….or walks.
Someone up above, probably Bluto, made the point that I think was most important with respect to the value of a walk: it is not an out. This is important because it creates additional opportunities for the subsequent hitters to generate runs. So, if you look at a walk, or look at a hitter, not as an individual in a vacuum, but how his actions influence the rest of the team, in the aggregate, a player who draws a lot of walks and has a higher OPS creates more potential runs and has a higher offensive value than a player who hits a lot, but doesn’t draw walks and has a lower OPS. ….in theory
It explains why you would think Trumbo and Kemp would be rated more highly offensively, but they’re not.
We can go back and forth. I don’t know that there is a perfect offensive stat: maybe something that factors in line drive percentage (a slow dribbler single up along third is the same as a screaming line drive single), deducts strikeouts versus groundouts ( I think we can agree a strikeout is worse than a groundout or flyball )
If you want to dive into more advanced statistics and sabre yourself out, then this is a good one:
http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/wrc/
I know….some of you consider all of this witchcraft. I assure you it’s just math.
This is a fascinating thread for me.
I didn’t mean to suggest I only value hits. I simply meant to say I value hitting. Believe me I know how valuable walks are. The perfect example of that for me has been what Pederson and Grandal have been able to produce (OPS) by having command and control of their own strike zone. First rule of hitting – get a good pitch to hit. If it’s not good don’t swing at it. There are some guys, good players, that just don’t understand that concept. Matt Kemp would be OPSing 1.000 if he’d lay off pitches out of the strike zone. Same thing goes for Puig.
This began with a comment about batting average. I do respect the mathematicians in baseball. I value science and am doing my best to understand it all. I just think that batting averages aren’t valued by them as much as they are by me. I have no real science to prove it, but I know a guy that consistently hits .300 will likely be at the top or in the middle of every managers lineup.
Snider, hits and walks have different values because a hit raises your slugging percentage.
But we have hit more HRs.
puig needs to be in lineup for defense. Reddick, ethier, or toles for other outfield spot.
Just as I was becoming a believer in Puig he almost runs Joc over. I don’t know where I am now with Puig.
Bum
It sure didn’t take him long, to pull one of his stunts did it?
When he first came back, he was throwing to the right base, and caught himself, from doing that to Joc.
And that proved all along, that Puig knew which base to throw to, and that his other stunts, we’re not right.
I think Puig does that to get attention.
If he can’t get a good hit, or make a good defensive play or throw, he tends to try to be the center of attention, by doing that stuff.
He has had some patient at bats, and been screwed by umpires, but he isn’t a good hitter, in the clutch, and especially in the post season.
I hope Roberts learned not to bat Puig fourth, even against lefties, because Puig almost always, trys to do to much, and swings to hard at times.
Bluto
Trust me, you wouldn’t want anymore all or nothing type hitters, in our line up
When Grandal
and Pederson bat to closely, and do more striking out, then making contact, to move runners over, it is frustrating .
Those two have trouble just hitting a flyball to the outfield, to bring a runner on third home, and just hitting the ball the other way, to get a runner on third home.
Joc has gotten a little better, but he still strikes out to much, with runners in scoring position.
Only a double play is worse then striking out, and even that grounder that is hit, that should turn a double play, can be muffed, by the infielder.
Hi MJ,
I have no idea what you are talking about.
An all or nothing hitter would be a Sam Horn or Gorman Thomas, right? Even if you have other examples, I’m not sure what they have to do with the OPS/BA discussion.
Almost by definition high OPS hitters are not all or nothing, unless it’s extremely weighted to the slug (in which case the slash line would indicate.)
In her defense, she’s talking about three separate concepts.
Are strikeouts factored in OPS? They’re not, and I think that is an inherent weakness of that stat. As she pointed out, if you have a guy on third with one out, would you rather have a strikeout or a fly ball? They’re both outs, but one is worse than the other. In the course of a season, the more times you put the ball in play as opposed to striking out, the more potential for run creation. Joc’s OPS is high because he walks, which is good, but he strikeouts a lot, which is bad, and is not reflected in his OPS. Additionally, a ground ball or fly ball has more potential to induce an error by the fielder than a strikeout. An error doesn’t count towards batting average or OPS, but it can be highly critical in overall run creation.
The other point she’s making is, should a player change his hitting approach based on the scenario? All year posters here have been complaining that Joc should choke up on the bat in RISP scenarios, he should shorten his swing, he shouldn’t swing out of his shoes.
This is a tricky one because she touches somewhat tangentially the argument for or against the bunt. Sabre guys don’t place as much value on the bunt because they value outs. If Joc just shortens his swing and puts the ball in play simply to put the ball in play, it’s still an out. It’s essentially a bunt. However, I think we realize that the best hitters can and should change their approach to every pitch in every scenario. You wouldn’t try to pull the ball if you recognized the pitcher was going low and away, even if your power is to the pull side. You’d want to go with the pitch and hit the other way. If you see the shift is on, you know how the pitcher and defense are going to attack you, so you adapt. The best hitters grind out at bats, make the pitcher work, foul off balls until the pitcher makes a mistake. This reflects a particular approach to hitting that isn’t always reflected in the stat.
Finally, in a related way, she’s talking about what the batter does in higher leverage situations. She’s saying that Joc and Grandal tend to strikeout in those situations and kill rallies. Hard to say about that because it’s hard to measure. There are stats that measure a relief pitchers performance in higher leverage situations. It’s possible, therefore, to create something akin to that for hitters. Say, added algorithmic value to hits with two outs, tie score…bottom of the ninth. Whatever.
hi DodgerPatch,
There are stats like K-Rate which specifically discuss strikeouts. I’m not sure Ks are that awful, but BA doesn’t account for them either. So, I’m not sure what the point of discussing it is.
As to whether a batter changes and improves his approach, won’t that show up in all batting stats? If you do better, your stats will be better.
The grind out concept is a tough one. It’s undeniably subjective. I’d say that in the whole, that portends better for stats that account for walks because “grinding” out an at bat leads to walks, right?
Dodgerpatch
You said that much better then I did, thanks!
I am not a numbers person, so I wouldn’t be the best of at trying to add or subtract some of those things, but I can see problems with some of the equations, and what importance, they give to certain things.
And like you know, those type of hitters, have trouble hitting good pitching, especially with runners on base, and especially in the post season.
The Bluejay’s line up, looks like they are mainly those type of hitters, but on there broadcasts, I have heard some of there HR hitters, do make decent contact, and don’t have us many strike outs, like some HR hitters.
Bluto
Really like Marks says below, you want a player that does hit for a good average, and has a good OBA, that can hit runners in, in scoring position.
And hit for power, but also can handle the bat well.
Hi MJ,
Obviously that’s right.
The proposition (mine that is) is that OPS is way more representative of that than BA.
No a hit that shouldn’t advance a runner, can be blown by the defense, unlike a walk.
Wondering
I must have saw it, but I don’t remember it much, so I will have to take another look at it, if it comes again
Bluto
To just use OBA and slugging, is not enough to evaluate a players offensive production to me.
But I understand you are a saber guy, and that is not to say, that I think all saber metrics, measures isn’t good.
Because any good info is a good thing to have.
Bum, I really am not sure the outfield will be that crowded. I do not see SVS, Puig, and Reddick on the team. I firmly believe Puig will be traded.
Al, you could be right. I wonder who the Dodgers would try to get for Puig. I would think SVS is invited to Spring Training even if he is later traded or cut. Verdugo is a year away. Thompson was good until he wasn’t and that may or may not have been due to his back.
I agree that Ethier would contribute as a 4th or 5th outfielder and pinch hitter.
SVS is arbitration eligible. Dodgers have to agree to a salary with him or non-tender him. (Soon after the World Series). If they non-tender him, they could invite him to ST but so can every other team. He would likely go with whichever team he thought he was most likely to get a job with. They are not likely to tender him a contract unless they feel he will produce enough to make the 25 man roster. I think he is gone.
If the front office doesn’t find a good hitter, that hits lefties, and isn’t a platoon type player, and also hits righties, they will take a long look at Thompson.
Because Thompson had very even splits, against lefties, and righties.
And Thompson’s power numbers, was just as even.
Right now, besides Puig, the rest of our outfielders, are all platoon type players.
They could still try to make a deal for Braun. They could use a big right-handed bat, especially if they don’t sign JT. Most of our prospects bat left.
Turner is brings to much to this team, not be signed.
And I am not talkng about his offense, because he is one of the leaders of this team.
And he is the best clutch hitter on this team too.
The only knock on Turner is his age, and his problem hitting lefties, but I think he is getting better there, and will do everything he can, in the off season, to hit better against lefties.
That is just Turner, always wanted to get better.
What happens in the regular season does matter in the playoffs! SF’s glaring weakness was fully exposed in the 9th inning. You can’t treat the post season as a vaccination. The problem ain’t going away.
And our two glaring problems still exist: mediocre starting pitching, and woeful hitting against left handed pitching.
Sure we have a chance tomorrow. It’s a coin flip. But those problems still exist.
Someone is going to pull some stat that says our starting pitching is better than mediocre. Ok fine, but if it hadn’t been for Turner’s HR in game 1 it would have been a Washington sweep. So we are riding the luck wave. Hopefully for at least one more game.
If it hadn’t been for X the Dodgers would have swept the Nats. It works both ways. I am guessing the Dodgers will win game 5.
It’s a weighted coin artie. 58%-42%.
But we are playing a Game 5. If we hit with them, we can play with them.
I can easily see Bellinger on the team next year. If Agon is traded I would like it to be to San Diego where he can finish where he started. He would be a good fit in San Diego. But for now, I am enjoying Agon helping the Dodgers move on the the WS.
San Diego is in full rebuild. They don’t want an aging, expensive 1B even with the theoretical PR and attendence boost.
Bellinger isn’t ready anyway. Fred’s wife puts funny powder in his Borkum Riff…
Funny as in ha ha or funny as in mind and body numbing – which can also be ha ha come to think of it. Never mind. Smoke on.
A full rebuild team needs a teacher by example guy on the team.
Adrian is owed $44.7mm. I too don’t see San Diego taking that on. He might be a DH candidate for a few years.
Besides, who do they have we’d want?
I want Espinosa, Margot and Morejon. I won’t get any of them.
All I can say is how does Agone hit those high fastballs for HRs?
When he swings at those high fastballs, it looks like it would hurt his neck.
I don’t know about Agone being a DH, his defense on first, is still pretty darn good, especially his throws to second for a double play, of after one of our pitchers, pick a runner off.
And especially his throws home.
Agone has six HRs in post season play for the Dodgers.
He ranks just below Garvey, who has ten Hrs, but in twice the innings.
bias should of never been brought in with men on base…he should start a inning ..but not with runner s on …does any one agree.
Bias should never be used in any opinion or argument.
Bias is the point of many arguments. Of course he means Baez, pronounced the same way.
Baez didn’t want such a bad stat, when he faces his first hitter, so a just hit the batter, to only be charged with one run, instead of every runner on
But should he enter the game in high leverage situations?
I say sure. But not this year and not with this team.
I would agree, and so would three years of post-season history. He has not done a good job with runners on.
Scott should have reprised Charlie Dressen’s quote about the 1951 Giants: “The Giants is dead.”
Wondering
I rather hear, the Dodgers win the pennant, the Dodgers win the pennant!
The Giants were just lucky they were in the post season.
And both games they won, the most important hits in those games, was from non of there regular line up.
I looked up Gilespes stats, and he had six HRs, in 191 at bats, and hit 267 with the Giants this year.
This same guy hit the only HR off the Mets closer this year.
And he is the one that hit the triple off Chapman.
And he was four for four, in this last game.
And this guy wouldn’t even been playing, if the guy that the Giants got at the trade deadline, didn’t pull his hammy.
That guy was drafted by the Giants, but he only had about 42 at bats with the Giants in four years.
And he spent time on the White Sox, and the Angels last year, and his combined average between these two was not much over 200.
But that is typical for the Giants. Call it luck, call it whatever you like but it happens too often with them…
Wondering
Everyone in the Media, are now convinced it isn’t luck.
But that would be like Culberson, hitting the only HR off the Mets closer this year, and hitting that triple off Chapman.
And remember the Giants actually did a trade, to have a guy play third, for only the last six games of the season.
Even with this guy on there team.
If that isn’t luck,, I don’t know what to think.
Some guys just move into the spotlight as if they know they belong there. The giants have won three titles with a lot of guys that came through for them under the most intense of light. I figured Bochy had a lot to do with it. But Bochy could not work the magic with that bullpen. If he would have had ours? …………….
I wonder who the owner of the Dodgers will be rooting for, if we play the Cubs for the penant?
I have read that he has season’s tickets for the Cubbies.
The Dodgers owner will be rooting for the the Dodgers, because, if nothing else, it’s all about the money.
I hate the Midgets as much as anyone, but if the Dodgers win tomorrow, who would you rather face in a playoff series, the Midgets or the Cubs?
The Cubs had the best record in baseball. I think you have to beat the best to be the best.
Brooklyn
I rather play the Cubs, because they have only one leftie starter, they will probably use.
I know they are going to throw every leftie reliever they can, but if we can score early off a starter, we will be ok.
Everyone has talked about are hitting with runners in scoring position, and most of that, is because we are facing a lot of leftie relievers.
And Joc, and Ultey, didn’t start against leftie starters most of the year, because the part time players were playing when they weren’t.
I think Turner is getting a little better against lefties, but certain lefties, give him trouble
I just hope if we face Lester, that Roberts doesn’t play Howie in left, if Chase doesn’t start.
Because Howie’s arm is a liability in left.
Howie really improved throughout the year, and made a really good throw, from short left, but when he is deeper in left, his arm cost us runs.
And about the Cub’s offense, look how Moore kept the Cubs from scoring almost for the entire eight innings, before Bochy, brought his relievers in.
Cubs offense, is not as great as everybody thinks.
There starting pitching, and there relievers, are what makes the Cubs strong, and they get to a lot of balls, on defense, but they do make errors.
Rizzo didn’t hit much against the Giants, but Bryant is the guy that you don’t want to beat you, especially with runners are on base.
I guess we will find out tonight.
Brooklyn
I hope we have a good game tonight!
Its going to be a “collection of arms”. Goody!
I guess it can work. We shall see.
TBD vs Scherzer on his home field.
We’ve got them right where we want them.
To quote an old Elvis tune….” It’s now or never”
I enjoyed the argument about OB%, OPS and BA. Ideally, you would love to have a team full of high OPS, OB% and High BA guys, but it doesn’t work like that. Frequently High OB% guys also have high BA’s, but then you have guys like Grandal and Pederson who are high OPS with lower OB% and even lower BA.
If they are both going to stay the players they are, then I am over them, BUT I think both will GROW in their hitting skills. Just my opinion and remember, I was never a JOC fan until recently. I have changed my mind. Yasmani discovered his power this year. Maybe next year he discovers his BA. Joc can still grow a lot.
Look how long it took Daniel Murphy and JT. Yasmani will be 28 next year. I think he will be even better. Joc will be 25 next year. Both of these guys are still learning. Just my two cents.
In preparation for tonight’s game listen to this and you will be ready:
Forget the last part…. 😉
Mark
That could be true, but Murphy and Turner, never got the chance to play on an everyday basis, like Grandal, and Joc have, in the last two years.
I think if Joc would change his thinking a little, he could be a better hitter.
I just think some times, he is to enamored with hitting HRs to much.
Look at the ball he took the other way, in our last game, it almost went out, and he didn’t swing hard at all.
And Grandal needs to try to make more solid contact, besides HRs too.
It is a little harder for catchers, because they get wore out, throughout the season.
They both need to have better, and smarter at bats, when runners are in scoring position.
Especially when the team doesn’t necessary need only a HR.
Strike outs, are not productive outs, and that is why they shouldn’t given the same value, as other outs.
And walks, are not the same as a hit.
Hitters like Grandal and Joc, have higher OPS’s, but that is because they are not penalized for strike outs, if they get enough walks.
And Mark I hope they will get better, but Joc is going to have to be given a chance to see more lefties starters next
year, to see if he is only a platoon player.
But if they do want to work to improve they might.
Look at Brandon Crawford, and Belt, Bochy use to sit both of them when the Giants were facing a leftie starter.
But now they hit lefties better then righties, but I think it took them at least two years, or three years, to hit lefties like they do now.
But when Joc and Grandal have these high OPS’s as compared to some of our better hitters, that shows that OPS’s are not always the best way to evaluate offense.
Solo HRs, are not always better then even a hit, especially when they are not hit that often.
If a team has two runners in scoring position , or the bases loaded, a hit can score two runs.
And when pitchers have a lot of runners on base, they tend to pitch tougher, and it is harder to hit it out, when a pitcher, is piching tough.
Joc and Grandal need to look at Agone as an example, because he almost always shortens his swing, when runners are in scoring position or on base.
And he is the top RBI guy in baseball, in the last ten years, I believe it is.
I hope they improve, because when people are in scoring position, strike outs, don’t do a thing!
MJ said: Strike outs, are not productive outs, and that is why they shouldn’t given the same value, as other outs.
And walks, are not the same as a hit.
The only outs that has any value are a sacrifice fly and a suicide squeeze., Walks are not the same as a hit but they’re a whole lot better than an out.
Wondering
Another guy that says it much better then me thanks.
Go with Urias tonight
James
If Urias had stayed in the rotation and was pitchng every fifth day, I would think about him starting.
But he hasn’t been pitching regulary, and he isn’t going to be sharp, because of that.
I have concerns about him coming in for relief too, because he tends to almost always, have a long first inning, where he throws a lot of pitches, and puts runners on, with walks.
His waste pitches in the first inning, are to far off the plate, to make hitters, go for them.
And it does seem like umpires squeeze him a lot, especially in the first inning, because his command is off.
All good points MJ. Stripling is rusty as well.
Bum
But Stripling, has more
experience coming out of the bullpen, but this is the post season.
And thanks!
if the dodgers lose tonight. how irate will people be.
Game 3 was boring and game 4 was really fun. I guess I can make better use of my time than watching TV if the Dodgers do not advance so there’s that.
Bum
In game four that seventh inning, practically killed me.
One could say that some of Joc’s stats are misleading because he hits mostly against opposite arm pitchers. But when one looks at his RBIs and HRs per AB he and Grandal lead the team.
Joc’s final month was one of the best in the MLB and he is having a decent post season.
Getting on base, working the pitch count, making the pitcher stress with every pitch he throws because a mistake could result in a HR, not letting the pitcher relax against a slow weak hitter, scoring runs, driving in runs. having quality at-bats, not swinging at bad pitches, protecting the plate with two strikes, not swinging at pitchers pitches even if they are strikes, exit speed on balls in play–this is what a Manager looks at when making out the lineup.
We all have grown up, most of us, seeing AVE, RBI, R, HR as the primary stats and we all have a feel as to where these numbers ranks players with other players. A .300 BA says a player is very good as does 100 runs, 100 RBI, and 30 HR. What we are unfamiliar with is how much better is a OPS+ of 1.07 vs. a 1.17 and until we do, all we really understand is that anything over 1 is better than league average and anything less than 1 is below league average.
I guess I would like to have several of the sabre stats added together someway and then have a number converted into a rank broken down by groups of 10% with a letter grade of A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J.
Rank by team, League, and Majors.
Regarding OPS vs. BA vs. walks conversation; I think the lead off hitter should have a high OBP, the 2 and 3 hitters should have a high OPS, and the 4 and 5 hitters should have a high SLG.
Bum
That HR total might be right, but they still strike out way to much, when runners are in scoring position.
And tend to swing to hard, when a hit can get the runners home, or even a flyball to the outfield, or ground out to the right side, if a runner in on third.
How many our there HRs, are solo HRs?
Hard contact doesn’t mean much, without consistent contact.
And when a pitchers is pitching tough, it is much harder to hit the ball out, and especially with two strikes.
How many times, did Joc and Grandal strike out, with runners in scoring position?
And Agone is older now, but I bet even when he was hitting tons of HRs, he was also hitting for a decent average, and shortening his swing, with runners on base.
Because he is a team player.
And I agree with you, saber metrics need to find a better way to rate offense.
Because some of the small things in baseball, do make a difference.
And to many hitters in baseball today, strike out way to much.
But there are actually some power hitters, that do have better contact.
Murphy is pretty amazing to come back and hit like he has, after being out three weeks.
MJ, regarding “That HR total might be right, but they still strike out way to much, when runners are in scoring position.”
Since Joc’s and Grandal’s ratio of RBI to AB are best on the team and since you seem to be saying they hit too many solo home runs, I am not sure the math supports your argument.
If a ratio of RBI to AB for a player is better than another player’s ratio and if the player with the better ratio has a higher strikeout rate, might that not disprove your argument that a strikeout is worse than another type of out?
Strikeouts are obviously your pet peeve and while I don’t like them either, they are often better than a ground ball that leads to a double play.
Hey, Fred, I’m in agreement again!
Wondering, I don’t smoke, never did.
Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don’t. I never know where you will go when you are not making one your drive-by jabs but find that I am surprised when you are positive.
Bum
I think he was just teasing you.
Some people show that they like you, by just teasing you.
If Wondering didn’t like you, he wouldn’t go out of his way, to tease you.
I didn’t know what that was, that Wondering was taking about, like Badger, it must have been before my time.
I agree MJ. Wondering was teasing but he doesn’t appreciate or realize that I am not serious with half of what I say here.
I am always serious.
Where is my crack pipe?
😉
I just passed it back to you Mark.
So, you’re saying you do smoke or did at one time?
Looks like it’s Hill on 3 days rest. Against Scherzer on 5 days rest. Washington favored -147. Also still favored to make NLCS by 58%. The odds is agin us.
Bum
I think he knows it now, what to you think?
Maybe you are both to tongue and cheek.
Are you that young?
Wondering
I not young but I think I might be a little younger then some you.
But I never smoked, so maybe that is why I didn’t know what that was.
Well, we agree on not smoking. It is most definitely my problem and not yours. I’ll try to restrain myself and please don’t let it bother you, nothing I say is worth it. What you say that gets my attention is when you call for a trade that will never happen in a million years or you want to automatically write some minor leaguer into the starting lineup next year. Any minor leaguer is fighting heavy odds to make it to the bigs, much less as a first year starter. I guess you’re an optimist, I know I’m a pessimist. Enjoy.
If we win it all this year, I’m fine with starting Bellinger, Verdugo, Urias, Calhoun, DeLeon, Peraza, Cotton, Holmes, Montas…….
I still think this organization is two years from peaking. I still believe we are NOT the best team in this tournament but, I also still believe its possible to finish the year with a win. Let’s play this game today and talk about what’s next when it’s over.
How about some healthy skepticism?
I have never smoked cigarettes or marijuana, but used to enjoy a good cigar… I haven’t done that for 5 or 6 years. They just don’t taste good anymore.
We do sell water treatment to lots of marijuana growers….
That a growing industry. It’s smokin’ hot!
Mark
I never did either.
And we are lucky we didn’t, it is such a bad habit to break, not to mention, and it is so un healthy.
My brother had cancer, and he is a very big advocate for pot.
I would like to try one of the eidibles, and see if that might help me, instead of the pain meds I take.
But that would be more expensive for me, and Kaiser, doesn’t advocate it, and they test for drugs.
My sister and nephew have tried the cookies and they claimed it worked well. It is expensive though you can buy them in a store, at least here in Nevada. You have to get a paper from your doctor and send it to the state and get a license. Never tried it, I associate Marijuana with smoking and I don’t think I could force myself to try it even for medical reasons.
Wondering
I have never smoked anything, and I just won’t.
My brother gave me a doctor to go to, and I could get one of those cards easy, but like you said, it is more expensive.
But it might be better then pain meds, in the long run.
IT HAS TO BE HILL!
Hopefully, he’s not over the Hill.
One more bad outing and he’s under the hill….
Those Hills must have eyes tonight.
I just hope if Hill finds himself getting behind on counts, he slow himself down a little.
Because I think he was trying to go to fast, and that is why he hit there 200 hitter twice.
Not to mention, that there 200 hitter, is doing anything to get on base, so he leans into the ball.
The problem with this 200 hitter, is that he can get lucky, and hit it out, on occasion.
They have been pitching Corey tough in these last few games.
I hope he has adjusted, and has a big night, and leads us to a win.
I am going to have to turn the MLB Channel off pretty soon, because all of this info, seems to make me more nervous for tonight.
That was a great horror movie, I’ve watched many times….
Wondering
Thanks I will take a look at it later.
I didn’t know that Wes Craven Freddy directed that film.
I always remember the commercial for that film.
Did it come out in the 70s, or 80s?
I don’t smoke, but I’ve been known to tip a few!
When I read about the evils of drinking,
I gave up reading!
We need to score some runs early before Scherzer can get into a rythem. That will enable us to play match-ups from when we take Hill out. I’m a little concerned with Urias’s struggles in his first inning. I wonder if it could be jitters or being too amped up. When I was in high school one of our pitchers always had problems (wild) in the first inning. Our coach finally had him throw 10 more pitches in pre-game warm-ups after he said he was warm. I’m sure we would all feel better if the human sun dial starts off an inning rather than coming in with runners on.
Hey MJ,
Here is a good deal on a Macintosh OSI Laptop at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Macbook-Laptop-OSX10-5-MB403LL/dp/B00159LRXY/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1476383080&sr=1-4&keywords=computer
Another thought is to get a tablet. I don’t know how you can operate on a phone like tat, I sure couldn’t.
Wondering thanks
I work on a laptop and play on a Chromebook.
I have I have “The Best Team Money Can Buy” ebook if anyone wants to read it.
Well I just saw the line up, and Reddick is playing again.
He couldn’t even get his bat around on Scherzer’s fastball the last time he faced him.
Ruiz has already delivered after his trade.
If Reddick can get a game winning hit or HR, I will ease up on him, but really why is he even playing?
I don’t know, but 1 big hit today by him will change my mind!
I shouldn’t have to say this because you all know it, but…. FAZ bought Reddick and he will keep ordering him to be played because to bench him would make it look like FAZ made a mistake. Count on him getting a Qualified Offer as well.
Wondering
I don’t know having Reddick playing so much, is making there point, because he hasn’t done much offensively.
And you have seen his defense in right.
But like I said above, if gets a big hit and helps us win this game, I will give him a pass
Ooops…
They can’t give him a QO – he was traded in mid-season. He’s a FA period!
I don’t want him back next year. We don’t need him.
In tonight’s game, there will be Goats and Legends.
This is what it all boils down to.
I hope we don’t get the Goats.
I want the Legends!
I will say this: If Rich Hill doesn’t deliver, the trade for him and Reddick was probably a bad deal.
NO PRESSURE, RICH!
Mark
Did you see in SF a bunch of Giant fans, had goats mask heads on?
One fan even brought a real goat, but he wasn’t allowed to bring the goat in.
I realized that and edited my post. See “Ooops” above…
Dusty
Said he had a cup of coffee this morning, and packed to go to Chicago.
The Dodgers packed for Chicago as well before they left LA. Hopefully Dusty can unpack that suitcase tonight — in Washington.
Otherwise he might run out of toothpicks…
Any thoughts on roster changes before going to Chicago? I say replace Reddick and Barnes, even Kike would be more useful.
Do you really think that they would replace the starting RF? Especially for someone they didn’t take with them to Washington, is a avg defender at best and hit below the Mendoza line. Barnes and Culberson would be the most vulnerable to replacement. The Dodgers may want to carry one more pitcher for the NLCS. If the Giants had won, Kike would be back on the roster, but the Cubs don’t have a bunch of lefties so unless they’ve figured something out in AZ, I don’t see him back.
Puig, Ethier, Toles, Pederson. Three left-handed hitting outfielders right there, all of whom are better defensively than Reddick. Kike could play outfield but better backing up second, third, and short. Reddick plays only outfield and that not well. And I only mentioned Kike as the possible replacement, I didn’t wish for him…
I hope it doesn’t come down to this, but a late game winning hit by Ethier would be cool.
Another good thing about the post season right now, is that the Giants are out, and the Cardinals didn’t make it.
There was a little talk about the QO before. Just read on Dodger Blue that the QO will jump from 15.8MM to 17.2MM. Some small market teams that may have considered offering a QO may now think twice about doing so.
Everyone ready!