In what is becoming par for the course, the Dodgers began by giving up runs in the first inning. Brett Anderson immediately gave up a single, which was promptly followed by a two-run home run.
But Anderson wasn’t done giving up runs. He went on to give up a three-run home run. 5-0
Dodgers
Adrian Gonzalez singled to score Josh Reddick from second. 1-0
At this point the game was semi-legitimately within reach.
2nd inning 1-5
Officially chalk up another broken Dodger pitcher. Anderson was pulled, and Brock Stewart was brought in.
He gave up no runs (but he sure came close).
4th inning 1-5
Two singles and a stolen base made it 1-6. The nightmare just got worse.
Dodgers
Joc Pederson got his second home run in as many days. Unfortunately, no one was on base for him to drive in. 2-6
The game was still conceivably within reach. Right????
5th inning 2-6
Bucs
Josh Reddick lost a fly ball in the sun. This resulted in a sun double, and another run. 2-7
7th inning
Howie Kendrick scored on a balk. It’s called chipping away.
9th inning 3-7
Just for laughs, the Pirates hit one more home run, courtesy of thier Korean import, Jung Ho Kang. Also his second home run in as many days. 3-8
Another few hits brought in the ninth run for the Pirates.
By this point the Dodgers have joined many of the fans in just not caring any more. Two more runs scored to make it 3-11.
The thrashing finally stopped, and the Dodgers were finally out of their misery. Game over, first place seemingly a million miles away.
Dodgers lose 3-11
Well, loyal readers, the smoke has cleared and the mirrors are all cracked. The makeup has been washed off and the harsh, bright LA sun is showing off the Dodgers as they truly are. Without starting pitching, and with an offense that is more elusive than a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
Even the die-hardiest of Dodger blue fans are going to have to admit there is not much behind the curtain. The front office has gathered a mess for a pitching staff, and there isn’t much for the fans to hang their hats on for hope.
Oscar Martinez
I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully was the golden voice of summer all my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodgers manager ever. My favorite things are coffee, beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.
Follow Me:
I was looking for some major league Scott Andes mojo, but this could be even better. The wasted primo ticket just might do it!
(And yes I agree the Giants could start winning anytime now … I think we can hang in there but it’s nice to put the adversity on the other guys for a change. This team, sans Kersahaw, does not any more “character” ….)
As an aside, I encourage people to read up on Usain Bolt.
Truly a knucklehead saddled with early career hamstring issues.
Above all, I am a Dodger fan. I have been since before they moved here from Brooklyn. Duke Snider was my idol. Someday I wanted to be the center fielder for the Dodgers. I grew up watching Koufax, Drysdale, Wills, the Davis boys, Frank Howard, Gil Hodges, the Duke, Jr Gilliam, Johnny Roseboro and too many others to name. I am no stat geek, saber metric aficionado, nor am I a GM. I am a watcher. I have watched this team for many years, and through that time it became easier for me to see if a player was doing his job or not. Was he good in the clutch, was his defense solid, could he hit good pitching. A lot of things go into being a successful player. And I saw some of the best, including, Mays, Musial, Aaron, Mantle, Ford, Spahn, and Roberto Clemente, who except for an oversight on the part of the front office, should have spent his career as a Dodger. Who ever let that guy get away should have been fired. I have watched every GM in LA Dodger history ply their trade and build the team. Back then players were not paid a fraction of what these guys today make, so they fought hard to keep their jobs in the majors. They pitched and played with injury’s that in today’s game, a guy would be put on the 15 day DL. The last couple years of his career, Koufax had to ice his arm after every game. His arthritis was that bad. What they managed to put on the field was usually a competitive team. Continuity was the Dodgers strong point as was a strong fundamentally sound team, and a farm system that churned out decent players. I think that FAZ is trying to do that and to win too, but his modus operandi of getting so many injury prone, or players with a long injury history, has made fans like myself leery because that is not what LA has been about in it’s baseball history. Not getting STAR POWER, has led us fans to believe that winning now is not important to these guys. They are more concerned with cutting payroll and keeping the prospects they have signed in the system. There are guys in the system who should and are untouchable, Seager, Urias, Deleon, and probably a couple others. But all this has come at a cost. The cost? Fan support. You read almost any blog and the fans are for the most part not enamored with the way FAZ conducts business. When I heard his interview on KLAC while I was home right after the trade deadline, I wanted to laugh out loud. He was saying how the fans would love these 2 players he had acquired for 3 of our so called top prospects, and these two guys are basically rentals. So far we have gotten nothing from Hill and it will be after next weekend if at all before we see him. Reddick is probably pressing, and has made a couple of embarrassing plays in right. He has not driven in a run, and he has not really hit all that well. I doubt the fans love the guy. The team is as close as they are to the Giants for 2 reasons. 1. The Giants have just flat played terrible. And 2. As good as the Dodger bullpen has been, the Giant pen has been that bad. It cost them a sure victory today. But sooner or later the stress of having to pitch multiple innings every damn day is going to take its toll on the Dodger pen. You may have seen the beginning of that today in the mess that was this game. 2 games in a row the starter lasted less than 3 innings. They pulled the one out on Saturday with some stellar hitting, but today the bad pitching was just too much to over come. Unlike Mark, who thinks things will all work out and that the Dodgers will ride these mediocre arms to victory and that CK comes back throwing bullets, when he will probably get NO rehab starts, I am a realist. What I see is a train wreck waiting to happen. I hope I am wrong, but all the evidence points toward the train derailing at some point. The team that wins the west, be it the Dodgers, or the Giants, will be playoff fodder for the Cubbies, or the Nats………………
Paragraph breaks would be appreciated Michael. Easier to read.
Sorry Bum, just a lousy writing style I guess……
You brought back memories of me watching the 1955 World Series on our 10″ black and white in East New York. I was a wee kid that went crazy along with our neighborhood when the bums took game 7. Vin Scully and Mel Allen were the announcers back then. 61 years ago. It’s bizarre to still hear Scully calling the games.
Jeff:
Small world as I also came from East New York. Lived at 202 Ridgewood Avenue just off the Interboro(now named Jackie Robinson) Parkway. I too, remember the Golden years and Gil Hodges was my favorite(and still is). The Duke was a close 2nd along with Campy.
Those of us who were fortunate enough to see all those great players are truly blessed.
Do you remember happy Felton’s Knothole gang on WOR Channel #9??
Happy Felton’s Knothole Gang!! I had completely forgotten that show for decades. lol.
I met Gil Hodges at a batting range in ENY. He showed up for a demo and autograph signing one evening. I can’t remember where it was now. Left NY at 20 for the Brave New World of S.F. Never looked back. I went to P.S. 190 and lived on Sheffield Ave, near New Lots. I imagine there must be a fair share of folks from there living in Socal.
Same here Jeff.
“old and infirmed to populate the pitching staff” = Best line this year!!!!!!
No wonder Badger doesn’t post any more when, like us, he has to read more gibberish comments from the self proclaimed physic who thinks that he knows everything about all of our inner thinking, motives, and unspoken rational. Sickening. Go get some psychoanalysis please.
So what are you hoping to see by posting these nonstop screeds? Do you think he’s going to get banned or simply go away because you want him to? Do you really want him to?
I enjoy Mark’s comments. Some are over the top but that is half the fun. I don’t like bickering between two commenters though and I don’t like drive-by-snarks.
I agree with you!
Bum
I
Like your drive by snarks.
With Greinke having been on the DL and having several horendous starts in his first year of a long and expensive contract, it makes the player the Dodgers got with the AZ draft pick very heart warming.
Smith is that player and he is a catcher and has moved up rapidly in the list of Dodger top prospects. Here is his story told by TrueBlueLA: http://www.thinkbluela.com/index.php/2016/08/13/dodgers-no-2-draft-pick-will-smith-moving-quickly-through-minors/
Bum
I glad we seemed to pick up the right prospect, from Greinke going else where, but that was only one game, and Greinke’s first game back, against one of the best offensive teams in baseball
Until this prospect makes it to the majors, we probably won’t know what we have.
But I am glad that our prospect is moving up in the farm system, because that means he is doing well.
And Bum
Remember McCarthy’s first couple games.
I try not to remember anything McCarthy.
Thought I’d check back on a few posts since I got back from fishing in Bishop…
Same-o, Same-o… Multiple MNenemas run amuck… MN has found a home…
I’ll surely check in here n there to see how this thing goes…
P.S. Urias is 20… Turned 20 the 12th…
Actually I do not feel I have found a home per say, and I am far from running amok. Learn to spell bright boy. So I missed his birthday, big whoopee, since he is not family I am sure he will forgive me, 20..19 what’s the difference he is still a kid…..
And to tell the truth, I could care less what you think of my posts. I am like every other fan on here, entitled to think what I like. People may not agree with me, and that’s fine. I just say what I think and feel. If it is too cerebral for you, just pass it by…..snide remarks not needed from some one who does not know me at all.
I hate when we have days off. What do we do??
However, the bullpen def needs it, so I’ll take it
I do to Bobby.
I actually think the team does better away, when they don’t have that many days off.
I think it bonds them even more.
I know they have a better home record, but I think when they are away, they can concentrate on baseball more.
At home they have more on there plate at home, besides baseball.
Thank goodness, McCarthy, and Anderson, didn’t start back to back, on the road with no days off, are we would be even worse off.
This day off, gives the arms in the pen a day off.
I think it was YF who said never have MCCarthy or Anderson start back to back.
If we can’t start these two pitchers back to back, they shouldn’t be in a starting rotation together.
And actually Anderson and McCarthy shouldn’t ever be counted on, to make most of there starts.
Haren gave up a lot of HRs, but he made all of his starts, and because Kershaw and Greinke were on the team, Haren was inspired to pitch better, and he did.
They are flying today, so we fans can enjoy reading the posts and for those of you who like them, you can watch the Olympics.
Michael
The Olympics.
use to be more fun to watch, when we only had a few channels, and everyone in the U.S. we’re watching the Olympics together.
I liked them much better when it was all amateurs. Now with all the pro’s in there it is no fun. There I go being old school again.
Michael
Except the teams from the Iron Curtain were pro, back then
And we still regularly kicked their ass in basketball with college kids.,….
Bobby
The Giant Pirates game, is on tonight in the MLB Channel.
Interesting how the Dodger top 30 prospects keep getting changed. Position players now dominating that list.
partially due to the recent trade – 3 of top 13 players gone (Holmes, Cotton and Montas).
The latest on Hill is that he won’t go to AAA
to make a rehab start, he is going to Arizona, where it is more dry and blisters heal better.
And about Reddick, he must be over trying like someone said, because I don’t think I have ever seen a veteran player, lose two fly balls in the sun, on back to back games.
I know it has had to happen, but it doesn’t happen often.
The funny part is that non of the Pirates players, had any trouble with the sun at all.
I still don’t think that Reddick should get more at bats, then Cory and Agone, as well as Turner, when he comes back.
I hope the team can sweep or win there next series, against the Philies.
They need to beat the teams, they are suppose to beat, especially after we just gave a series away, to the Pirates.
Blisters can come back pretty easy, In the old days pitchers would soak their hands in pickle brine to help them toughen up.
Someone on the MLB Channel talked about something called rodeo creme, that is suppose to protect a pitcher’s hands or fingers.
MJ, got to keep the skin soft enough to feel the ball, get friction on the ball, but not so soft that it gets blisters.
Michael, I think Ruth drank that pickle brine didn’t he?
Bum
I read some where that Hill has had to change is arm slot quite a bit, because of his injuries, and that is why he doesn’t have calluses, on his fingers, to protect himself with.
He LOVED Lou Gehrig’s mom’s pickled eels……
Here is an interesting article about baseball teams’ front offices:
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2016/8/15/12481238/front-office-confidence-survey-3-0
They polled fans of all 30 MLB teams to see what confidence they had in their teams’ respective front offices. The upshot is that the average (highest possible score 5.0) is 3.6. Highest marks for the Cubs (4.9), Rangers (4.8), and Nationals (4.7).
Where did the Dodgers rate? 20th (out of 30 teams), at 3.4. Representative fan comment?
“They haven’t traded or signed any big name or anyone that can help us get to the World Series. They have signed all these guys to save money who are injury prone. How are they saving money when we’re paying them to be on the disable list and sign someone else to replace when they could’ve just signed someone better with what they are paying 2 guys for.”
I guess I’m not the only one who feels this way.
Just not drinking enough blue Kool-aid there bud. But you need to locate the good stuff, the Dodger blue Kool-Aid that has been endorsed by FAZ. With it being an off day do drink up and by tomorrow you will be cure and will see ALL of their great acquisitions as they see them.
Yeah, we’re keeping pace and sticking to THE PLAN! Pass the absinth over here.
Dodger rick
That has been my point a long, about signing these pitchers, with long injury histories.
Is it really cheaper to sign these type of pitchers, when they are not making there starts, and they are having to constantly bring in more pitchers, to cover for these injury ridden pitchers?
And we are not talking about one or two pitchers, that have replaced the innings, these pitchers with injuries, are not able to pitch.
The different number of pitchers that they have had to use, is in double figures.
That is why I asked you Rick to try to figure that amount out.
Because you are better organized then I am, and I am not a numbers person.
I don’t know how much the pitchers they have used for one game, that came off the scrap heap, would be paid, for that one game, or a few games, if they have pitched more.
And we need to know how much money, they have paid pitchers, that have barely made any starts, and have been on the DL most of the time.
One if there biggest mistakes was giving a pitcher like McCarthy, a multi year contract.
And Rick thanks for listing the history of the innings, that these pitchers, have only pitched, in there careers.
The amount of injuries that Hill has had is unbelievable, as well as the innings he has only pitched in his entire career.
Once again is the front office really saving that much money, by signing pitchers like this, and are they saving any money, because this money is stacking up.
Here’s food for thought. I’m guessing that the Dodgers this year have (or will have) the highest cost per start in the Majors.
All one needs to do is add up the salary of every pitcher that has started at least one game this year for the Dodgers. I’m betting that the Dodgers (this year) have more money tied up in all of their starting pitchers than any other team in baseball. Just a gut feeling.
Looking at the Dodgers starters, the number would include Kershaw (34.5M), Maeda(4.7M), McCarthy(12.5M), Wood(.5M), Stripling(.5M), Norris(2.5M), Urias(.5M), Kazmir(12.6M), Bolsinger(.5M), Stewart(.5M), Tepesch(.5M), Ryu(7.8M) and Anderson(15.8M).
That’s $93.4 Million dollars in starting pitching. Is there another team that has spent more money on its starters this year? Now tell me how economical they have been.
Chili
That is what I don’t know.
Does the Dodgers pay a pitcher like Tepesch
his full contract, because after they let him go, I think it was the A’s who picked him up.
No, he was on a minor league deal which updates to the MLB minimum when he is called up and it is pro rated. Since he was only on the team a couple of days, it is not much, and then when he was released the A’s picked up the rest of his minor league deal
CC Sabathia really wanted to sign with the Dodgers and told the owner, McCourt I believe, that he wanted to sign with the Dodgers. The Yankees made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. It would have been nice if FAZ had offered Miller an offer he couldn’t refuse.
The Dodgers might have gone further in the 2015 playoffs.
The TRADE was so yesterday. But if the Dodgers win the pennant and get to the WS, fans will rate FAZ higher regardless of what they do or not do.
Bum
I like Andrew Miller too, and he could have made a big difference.
He is effective against lefties, and righties.
And in the FAZ world success in the post season is basically a coin flip. Would they take the noble high road and say “no need for applause, reaching the WS is just random luck”???
Bingo. Wall Street thinking. Before an investment banker makes big money, it’s always everything is random, supply and demand, etc. After they’ve made it, the ego sets in and they start believing that they they had something to do with it.
The truth is they’ve always had something to do with it, and it’s easier to blame the market for your failures. Those who have never made big money on Wall Street, don’t for a reason.
I may not know much about entrepreneurs like Mark, or baseball, but I know these the ups and downs of the investment banker lifecycle very well.
Michael, I don’t know how a guy who has 20/20 vision politically and shares my belief that every American is entitled to own an Armory, could be so confused when it comes to building a “Dominate” baseball organization.
What’s not to like about you, Veteran, Singer, Patriot, dog lover? Nothing!! I can tell you’re a great big lovable fuzz ball. Therefore, I am more than willing to help clear up your “Dodger organization building” confusion.
First, let’s look at the players currently on the disabled list, Louis Coleman, Andre Ethier, Casey Fien, Yimi Garcia, Chris Hatcher, Rich Hill, Clayton Kershaw, Adam Liberatore, Brandon McCarthy, Bud Norris, Josh Ravin, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Trayce Thompson, Chin-Hui Tsoa, Scott Van Slyke, Alex Wood. A review of the above players indicates that gambling on “High Upside coupled with injury history” is only ONE of MANY strategies employed by FAZ to put a competitive team on the field. Most of the above players don’t have an injury history any worse than other team’s players. Gambling on a player finally getting healthy after a having a checkered injury history can be risky, but, paying ANYBODY millions of dollars to play baseball is risky. Look at the Greinke $206M contract now, the value of that contract has dropped more than the McCarthy/Anderson salaries combined. AZ is screwed. Another example is Midget acquisition of Matt Moore, who is coming off TJ surgery, he has an injury history, but, they gave lots to get him.
“Cutting Payroll/Keeping Prospects”, this is the old Dodger formula for success. Obviously, you have a great memory of the old Dodger teams. But, think back on how tight the O’Malley’s were. Remember Drysdale and Koufax holding out? Remember the Dodgers signing high priced free agents? No, the O”Malley Dodgers were very fiscally tight. FAZ, has to clear up the salary mess Ned left them. We all know Dodgers have the highest payroll in baseball, no disputing that. It should be clear that they MUST get out of luxury tax territory. NO team can compete over the long-term with their player costs 50% higher than everybody else.
“Not getting Star Power”, Yes, let’s get some star power. Where? No team trades stars unless they have to (Let’s keep an eye on AZ), but, lacking that the farm system is the best source of potential stars. You have got to give to get, when making trades. Teams just don’t trade unless they think they are getting the better end of the trade. Best chance of finding a star via trade, is finding the player before he becomes a star. Twenty months in, FAZ seems to have a pretty good eye for finding those types of players.
“Giants Playing Flat Out Terrible”, winning MLB games is tough. Win 60% you’re a dominate baseball team.
“Dodgers or Giants Playoff Fodder for Nationals/Cubs”, Agreed, Cubs, at least, must be viewed as favorites. National’s Harper not looking as dominate (Haven’t heard $400M contract extension talk lately).
Bottom line: We are 20 months into the FAZ rein. Get us in playoffs FAZ, anything can happen. Stay on course FAZ, so we’ll be back next year stronger.
Lastly, forget center field, I staked that territory out years ago!!
I appreciate your input, very insightful. But CF was mine! LOL, actually I played 1st base most of the time and pitched a little. Being LH gave me just a few options. As far as O’Malley being tight, well that was the game back then. Players were on 1 year contracts and salary’s could actually be cut if you had a bad year. You were playing for your baseball life every spring. Those players had incentive to get better. But that was then, this is now. It is a whole new and different kind of baseball, and I would not say it is better. Bavasi was a tough GM, and he would cut you in a minute. Just look how they handled Carl Furillo, who ended up suing the team. We all know how hard it is to win. And the Giants swoon is one of those things that can happen to any team at any time. I disagree that FAZ finds star players. He might find players who are pretty good, but they are not team carrying types of guys, and I think the mess left behind was more McCourt’s fault than Colletti. With the resources he had on hand he did pretty good. And most Dodger fans are pretty fed up with close, but no cigar. Sure, 3 years from now, this team MIGHT be a juggernaut. Then again those heralded prospects might fall flat on their collective faces. A collection of prospects who actually make it like the bunch we had in the 70’s do not come along that often. There were players available who were better than what we got. And some were less expensive. I thought Greinke getting the money he did was really dumb, and I was glad they did not pay him that much. But, and I am not saying they should have signed the Shark, or Queto, they could have found somebody with out the history’s of injury like the players they signed. Even Kazmir has had arm trouble’s Maeda’s physical made them change his contract. I am 68. I would love to see the team in another world series. If it does not happen in my lifetime, well that is the luck of the draw. But I do not trust FAZ to get them to the promised land. I am not drinking his Kool-Aid, or buying his rhetoric. I think they are what they are, a good but not great franchise and team. Some nice players, some good prospects, but not a championship team…..that’s my story and I am sticking to it………just call me hard headed……not confused.
OK, you’re hard headed, not confused.
Like I said what’s not to like, let me add left handed to the list, we left handers are the only people in our “right mind”.
Michael
You 100
Percent right about the prospects, that turned into really good players, in the 70s, don’t happen often.
Because those players from the 70s, came mostly from the 1968 draft, and baseball considers that draft, the best draft in baseball history.
So you nailed that one.
Correction: O’Malley’s GM, like Ned, HAD to be tight fisted, they did not have the money to spend, they did not choose to be cheap. On the other hand, FAZ’s owners have the cash to hire good players and have a World Series possible team. They, either FAZ or Gugenheim, choose to short change the fans with lies and excuses and poor performance. And they will receive the criticism for it as long as my keyboard works.
Have you considered changing your handle to “FAZMAN”?
Wondering
I was thinking baseball owners, didn’t get the big money from TV, like team’s owners, get today.
Close, but O’Malley as soon as the team moved here started making lots of cash, especially after they won the 59 series……..Remember, he paid for Dodger Stadium, so he was no pauper.
Box-
Only one of those 16 names mentioned is a good proven MLB player.
Matt Moore is coming off TJ surgery as this is his first full season back. His 2 years prior to TJ surgery were very good. Next year is the year when a pitcher usually retains his previous form. If that happens then the deal could pay off but I agree that the Giants gave up a lot.
But the Giants are going for it this year and the next couple of years. Will it work out for them? No one knows at this point. But the construction of their team is more conducive to the post season IMO whereas I don’t see that with the Dodgers.
No one that I’m aware of is against cutting the ‘fat.’ The Dodgers have plenty of that……Crawford, Ethier, Gonzalez, etc. In fact in 2 years some might say it’s too risky to sign Kershaw to a long term contract.
Here’s the concern. FAZ has NEVER signed top free agents nor traded for star players. Friedman alone has a 12 year track record.
Applying saber-metrics to everything IMO prevents them from doing so.
However you want to view Grienke’s contract/performance that situation was handled about as bad as it could be. Just me knowing Grienke from a distance, he is and has been a hired hand. I, for one had said all along, either sign him to an extension before the trade deadline or trade him for 3 or 4 top prospects. The Dodgers did neither.
Catering to Jimmy ‘Philadelphia Phillies washed up’ Rollins was ridiculous. That was all FAZ and that was blatant incompetency. He went out and brought him in and felt obligated. I wonder how much better Seager (and the Dodgers) would have been by the post season if Seager was brought up, oh in August, or July or June or May. They wait until September 3rd to bring up their phenom. Who does that when you have a player hitting just above the Mendoza line?
If you think that the Dodgers have oh, 3, 4, or 5 all-star position players in their minors than I think you are going to be disappointed. And especially if you think they are all just a couple of years away.
Grienke was the first big star that they didn’t sign. After this season there will be Jansen and Turner. My gut tells me they don’t sign either one of them. You know….too old and costly.
And then it’s Kershaw’s turn after 2018.
My advice. Don’t invest in the purchase of any players jersey.
I largely agree with you Chili.
The Braintrust won’t extend pitchers for more than a few years and won’t extend a top reliever at all. We are seeing the last of Kenley Jansen in Dodger Blue this year. And they won’t be signing Aroldis Chapman for the same reason – don’t pay big $$$ to relief pitchers. We’d better hope that they have someone internally who can close next year. I can just see Pedro Baez and Chris Hatcher flaming out in the 9th next year.
I fear that you are right about Kershaw as well. He has the right to opt out after 2018. If he does, he will be 30 – just about the age where SABRtheory has pitchers’ arms falling off (I guess we all just ignore the Warren Spahns of the world – he won 23 games at the age of 42 in 1963). And anyway, pitchers break! So no Kershaw after 2018 is a real possibility.
I can see them resigning Turner but not for more than 2 or 3 years. If he can get more on the market (and he probably can) then Turner will be gone too.
Next year’s Dodgers will be a markedly different bunch than this year’s.
We will have a rotation of Kerhsaw, Kazmir, Maeda, McCarthy and maybe Urias or Stripling. Does anyone think that Kazmir, Maeda and McCarthy will make it through the season injury free next year? Me neither.
The ‘pen you ask? Blanton, Jansen, Howell, Coleman and Dayton are free agents. Will they keep any of them?
The position players – Utley, Turner, Ellis are free agents. Other than Turner, the Dodgers probably won’t miss any of them.
And does anyone think that the Braintrust will sign or trade for a real difference maker this off season?
I have been reading Dodgerland, about the ’77-78 Dodgers. Remember Dusty Baker, Reggie Smith, Burt Hooton, Tommy John and other real difference makers who came from other teams via trade or free agency and made a good Dodger team a great one? Does anyone here see that happening this off season?
nope…….not happenin
Chili
I was just thinking about Cory too.
If Cory is doing this well now, he was probably ready at the begining of last year.
The only average month Cory has had this year, was the first month of the season.
And he only started slow for him, because he missed most of spring training, when he sprain his knee.
You may have forgotten that Seager came down with an illness last year and was out for a week or two. I think they brought him up and played him more than they even planned last year.
Seager had 550 PA’s in the minors in 2015 and then another 113 PA’s with the Dodgers. Yes, I’m sure he was out for a significant amount of time because otherwise the great and powerful FAZ would have ‘for sure’ brought him up when their fill in SS was fighting to hit above .200 last year.
Keep making excuses for the never won anything FAZ.
Okay Boxout, I have picked myself off the floor, drank a glass of water, reread your comment, picked myself off the floor again, drank a beer, and am now writing.
Awesome, Right on, I loved it. Love to read more of that kind of stuff.
I always tried to get the short stop job whenever I played so you and Michael can fight it out for CF.
Lefty’s don’t play SS…so you can have it. I was more a power hitting 1B anyway, but I loved playing CF.
Yes, I also was that rare combination of power and average. WRISP was never ever a problem for good old Boxout. Hopefully, Bumsrap ain’t all glove and no stick at short!
I thought for sure the giants would win that game on Sunday with a 7-1 in the 7th. Woke up this am to ready the joyful news of a 9th inning loss. Now the Pirates have to exact the same pain they did on us. If you look at the transactions section of the sports page, you will see movements for injuries all over baseball. The teams with the fewest probably will be the winners. The game is getting to be like football. For me, not just with the Dodgers, all these injuries are ruining the game. I have to believe that training at the younger ages is lacking and development and technique are responsible. In the Dodgers ‘ case, the medical/training staff is probably the worst in baseball, if only because of the 27 guys they have lost this year. No one has the answer. A career in baseball is being shortened to about 5 years, with 2 in the minors. It stinks. Think of the time and expense rehabbing these guys, who are totally unproductive.
Another good outing by Logan Bawcom with OKC. He has 82 innings this year. Time to call him up.
Wondering: “On the other hand, FAZ’s owners have the cash to hire good players and have a World Series possible team. They, either FAZ or Gugenheim, choose to short change the fans with lies and excuses and poor performance.” Can’t forget they have the highest payroll in baseball, spent $100M + fixing up Dodger Stadium and spent huge on Cubans in an attempt to improve farm system. Don’t see how they are short changing anybody.
Michael Norris: “Close, but O’Malley as soon as the team moved here started making lots of cash, especially after they won the 59 series……..Remember, he paid for Dodger Stadium, so he was no pauper.” Agree 100%!!
Chili: “Here’s the concern. FAZ has NEVER signed top free agents nor traded for star players. Friedman alone has a 12 year track record.” Not really true, following is a link to some of Friedman’s Tampa accomplishments:
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/tb/team/exe_bios/friedman_andrew.html
Chili: “However you want to view Grienke’s contract/performance that situation was handled about as bad as it could be. Just me knowing Grienke from a distance, he is and has been a hired hand. I, for one had said all along, either sign him to an extension before the trade deadline or trade him for 3 or 4 top prospects. The Dodgers did neither.” Probably couldn’t sign him to an extension, agents seem to want to test the free agent market. Would you really have traded him? Dodgers were one of the favorites last year to win it all. Trading Grienke (although with 20/20 hindsight would have been nice) and hugely lessening the chance for a championship would be worthy of an uprising. If FAZ traded Grienke last year at the deadline, I would have to agree with Wondering, that FAZ shortchanged the fans.
dodgerrick: “The Braintrust won’t extend pitchers for more than a few years and won’t extend a top reliever at all. We are seeing the last of Kenley Jansen in Dodger Blue this year. And they won’t be signing Aroldis Chapman for the same reason.” Well, FAZ did build the best (or one of the best) bullpens in baseball this year. Hopefully, they will extend the right players and let the others walk.
dodgerrick: “I fear that you are right about Kershaw as well. He has the right to opt out after 2018. If he does, he will be 30 – just about the age where SABRtheory has pitchers’ arms falling off (I guess we all just ignore the Warren Spahns of the world – he won 23 games at the age of 42 in 1963). And anyway, pitchers break! So no Kershaw after 2018 is a real possibility.” Yes, we could lose Kershaw after 2018. Huge decision! Again, hopefully they make the right decision. I am reminded of what an attorney friend of mine has told me many times, “If you have tried two court cases you have probably lost one”. Do you, an attorney, agree? Seems to me, signing a 30 + yr old player to a big long-term contract (and lots of other GM decisions), has about the same probability of success as taking a case all the way to trial.
I just don’t get all the hate towards FAZ. Like someone said on this board, “When FAZ took over, Dodger team was OK, really only had two stud pitchers carrying the team”. I believe that was correct. Hanley left, after being a BIG part of the team’s success, lots of bloated contracts and aging players. 20 months in, we are looking at a second trip to playoffs (hopefully) with a bright future. What’s not to like? I am enjoying the 2016 season.
I read the article that you linked to. It is about Friedman’s tenure with the Rays. It says:
“His emphasis on scouting and player development, his ability to piece together a contending team every year despite limited financial resources and his astute use of sabermetrics have made the Rays an organization that others try to emulate, though usually without nearly as much success. Five years ago, the Rays were the only team that employed significant defensive shifts. Now, every team uses them, just another trend in the game that began in part with Andrew Friedman.”
There is nothing new here. Friedman pinched pennies and used stats to compete because he didn’t have the money to do it otherwise.
Chili said that Friedman didn’t sign or trade for established stars. This was true when he was with the Rays and it is true with the Dodgers. He has engineered a policy of cobbling together spare parts and cast offs added to the guys that the Dodgers already had.
No big splashes – no signing stars. Signing Louis Coleman and Joe Blanton; Scott Kazmir, Brett Anderson and Brandon McCarthy. Chili is correct.
Yeah, they have the highest payroll in baseball, but is down $85 MM this year compared to last and it will be down again next year. The only splurges have been on a platoon of Cubans.
The “best bullpen in baseball” includes the ace, Jansen, without which the ‘pen is pretty mediocre. And they are prepared to let him walk and grab a draft pick – so who will close next year?
And there is no way that anyone should let Kershaw walk. Under any circumstances, as long as his left arm is still attached to his body. Can you imagine the Dodgers letting Koufax and Drysdale walk after the 1965 season?
And by the way, I have “won” way more than 50% of my cases at trial. You win by trying cases that you think you will win, and by out-preparing your opponent. If you are afraid to role the dice, you will lose and others will know that you are afraid to try cases and take advantage of you. You have to be fearless and go for it sometimes. I fear that the Braintrust needs this lesson.
Rick,
You are a smart guy – I can tell. This ain’t rocket science, but I cannot comprehend that you can’t easily understand what is going on….
By the way, I have won 100% of my cases that I have tried personally. All two! 😉
They won’t let Clayton walkl! That’s the deal!
Yes, we are becoming the LA Tampa A’s. The evidence shows that.
Thanks for the article as it proves my point. His ‘highlights’ as stated by the article includes 10 players of which the top 4 players (Longoria, Price, Moore & Zobrist) on the list all came up through the farm with 2 of them being the 1st overall pick(Price) and the other being the 3rd overall pick(Longoria). He had better tank the Dodgers if his going to get that high of a pick again.
Here’s the rundown of Friedman’s highlights.
Jason Bartlett—-acquired in 2009, had for 2 years with his 2nd year of 4 HR’s and a .254 BA…..was let go
Matt Joyce—–acquired in 2009. Played 6 seasons with a BA of .250 while with the Rays. Can’t start for anyone else but was a starter for the Rays.
Evan Longoria—Drafted 1st round, 3rd overall pick. Was not signed or traded for.
Matt Moore—–Drafted by the Rays. Was not signed or traded for.
Dioner Navarro—acquired in 2006. Played 5 seasons and had a BA of .243 while with the Rays
Carlos Pena——acquired in 2007. Played 5 years and had a BA of .230 while with the Rays
David Price——Drafted 1st round, 1st overall pick. Was not signed or traded for.
Fernando Rodney—-acquired in 2012. Had a very good year in 2012 then played one more season before either not being signed or traded to Seattle.
Rafael Soriano——–acquired in 2010 and had 1 all-star season as a closer than was let go.
Ben Zobrist—–came up through Tampa’s farm. Played 9 years with the Rays with a BA of .264.
So over a 9 year tenure as the Rays GM, this is his highlights. Oh my.
The six consecutive winning seasons and four playoff appearances since 2008 while working with a payroll that ranked 27th in major league baseball no doubt top Andrew Friedman’s list of accomplishments in his eight years as Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations of the Tampa Bay Rays.
Bottom line: Playoffs four out of eight years, with 27th out of 30 lowest payroll. Somehow he gets it done.
or Joe Maddon got it done
Injuries are certainly up this with every team, not just the Dodgers.
McCarthy, Wood and Anderson have histories of injuries, but that is not where MOST of it has came from.
27 or 28 players to the DL and many of you scream that it’s because FAZ just signs injury prone players. BULLSHIT!
Don’t bring weak ass arguments. Every team signs injury-prone players.
Andre Ethier broke his leg – was that FAZ’s fault? Hell no!
Josh Ravin Broke his arm – was that FAZ’s fault? Hell no!
Clayton Kershaw hurt his back – so did Brett Anderson – Are both FAZ’s fault?
Trayce Thompson, Yasiel Puig, Adam Liberatore, Joc Pederson, Scott Van Slyke?
Rich Hill has never had blisters before, but that is FAZ’s fault?
The Giants have Jake Peavy, Matt Moore and Matt Cain – guys who all have extensive injury histories. Every team has them. You guys just have a “Lynch Mob” mentality and you have never really said what they should have done instead – well, some of you said they should have signed Greinke – that was a stroke of genius wasn’t it?
Sometimes things just happen, but the vast majority of the DL trips are not because of players FAZ signed. You just start with that and believe your own fiction.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I was mainly talking about the starting rotation.
I was talking about the weather.
yeah, that is basically true, but no one I have heard has bashed FAZ for Ethier, or Puig, but they have given him grief for two of the worst free agent signings in Dodger history, McCarthy and Anderson, who was not all that great last year, barely above .500, and then disappeared against the Mets in one of the worst playoff pitching performances I have seen in years. Ravin is a bad choice because he spent time out for PEDS. No one has said anything about Kazmir, who has had injury issues. Ryu is not FAZ’s boy, so he is out of the discussion. Look, just because someone does not like the DL prone players FAZ HAS signed, does not mean you have to take the high road and jump down someone’s throat. They are entitled to believe what they want, same as you.
To many here, because injuries happen to non-injured players, many of whom have great WAR because of the lack of injuries, that is precisely the “old school” approach of not signing injury prone players works.
Because pitchers, as well as everyday players, break. And real depth consist of players whom you feel your trainers and coaches can improve, not “arbitrage” guys who are largely gambles.
For what it’s worth, if I can see that our coaches and trainers are able to turn a bad player around by improving their technique, then I’d be on board with the new school approach. But other than Pederson and possibly Turner, I don’t see any players getting better since they’ve been here that’s due to coaching.
I loved the purge at the coaching and the scouts level. I had hoped that we’ve just burn this year and keep our prospects. You haven’t seen me pushing for trades this year (or ever, if my beer-addled memory serves).
If our new guys and guys off the scrap heap don’t consistently do better, then it’s s simple arbitrage game. I think that strategy saves money but it is no better, and likely worse long term, than the old school way.
Trading prospects for rentals was a wake up call to me this year – FAZ are just arbitrage guys.
Like it or not, sports is a long term game. The likes of entrepreneurs, or long term investors like Buffet, so far better than arbitrage guys and investment bankers, even at stocks.
I’m not sure I agree with you Yueh_Fei. The Dodgers have built and protected their farm system and have invested in developing that farm system. Like you said, they have replaced coaches with coaches that are good at developing players. Roberts has said that he wants to teach everyday.
It is the fringes that FAZ arbitrages.
That’s what I had hoped for too, until they traded 3 of our top prospects for Reddick and Hill. That’s the wake up call for me. They’re just arbitraging.
Jimmy Buffett is a long term investor I really like…. OH, I mean Warren Buffett. Since you brought it up, here’s what Buffett does:
“Rule No. 1: Never Lose Money. Rule No. 2: Never Forget Rule No. 1.”
“If The Business Does Well, The Stock Eventually Follows.”
“It’s Far Better To Buy A Wonderful Company At A Fair Price Than A Fair Company At A Wonderful Price.”
To pick stocks well, investors must set down criteria for uncovering good businesses and stick to their discipline. You might, for example, seek companies that offer a durable product or service and also have solid operating earnings and the germ for future profits. You might establish a minimum market capitalization you’re willing to accept, and a maximum P/E ratio or debt level. Finding the right company at the right price – with a margin for safety against unknown market risk – is the ultimate goal.
FAZ is following Buffett’s plan to a tee. They have rules and they don’t deviate. They are value investors and the payoff will be huge, even though they may lose at times.Buffett personally lost about $23 billion in the financial crisis of 2008, but he stuck to his plan. FAZ is doing the same.
The Greinkes, Cuetos, Prices, et al are all overvalued stocks who will cause their owners to crash and burn.
Watch and learn. Remember who told you!
This is baseball, not stocks. Quality not quantity are what matters. You get a 40 man roster full of mediocrity and that is what you are, mediocre. What matters in baseball is championships, multiple are preferable. So far the investments they have made, well they suck. Not saying they need Queto, or Greinke, or the Shark, but Hamels, or Sale would have done nicely and at a decent price too. Plus the value of the product would have increased………
Fair Business for a fair price. To be decided!
So Anderson and McCarthy, are fair businesses for a great price.
“It’s Far Better To Buy A Wonderful Company At A Fair Price Than A Fair Company At A Wonderful Price.”
I think FAZ overlooked that instruction… Substitute “player” for “company’.
Bingo!
Wondering
Isn’t that what I said?
McCarthy, and Anderson, are companies, that are bankrupt.
I don’t see it. They’re hoarding assets to arbitraging only. They’ll convince me when they swing a deal that had long term impact, or don’t swing any deals at all and sign our homegrown stars to long term contracts. Buffet doubled down on the insurance industry during the financial crisis, and he’s going to double down on Apple. FAZ are just arbitragers; not in the same league.
I wait to eat crow, by the way.
Okay, here is my take. I do not like FAZ period. It is nothing against the person, it is the way he conducts baseball business. He and Friedman have a small market mentality and they have brought that way of running a baseball team here. I am not saying they should sell the farm to get good players, or trade prospects for stars. What I am saying is that their track record so far is not all that good. Especially where trades are concerned. Lets look at a couple of free agent signings…
Brett Anderson……..37-42 career record with a decent ERA of 3.78…..has pitched in 30 games twice in a 8 year career.
Brandon McCarthy…..57-67 career record with a 4.12 ERA over 12 years.
Scott Kazmir 107-96 Career record with a 3.99 ERA over parts of 12 years.
Those 3 are combining to make a little over 40 million dollars for 11 wins between them.
The trades are another thing. The so called big trade has brought nothing to the table this year. Wood is on the DL…..Only Grandal is left from the Kemp trade, Liberatore was doing well before going on the DL. Rollins is gone, I think getting him was a mistake in the first place because in my mind Seager was ready last spring. But that’s just me. The Gordon trade has 3 pieces left, Hernandez, who has been awful for most of the year, Barnes, who is a good AAA player, but not much help up here, and Hatcher, who is a walking disaster area. I understand building the farm system, and I understand not trading top prospects for rentals, but not going after a quality player, be it a pitcher or position player, is just plain dumb. Especially when your arch enemy is playing as bad as the Giants are. ….. Hill and Reddick, please……if they are the guys who are going to put you over the top, then you are dreaming. …There had to be better options. But that small market mentality keeps popping up. Go for the cheap fix. They got creative trading Kemp, you would think they could have come up with something to get a quality starter. Dodgers have 46 quality starts, that ranks 26th in the league. The bull pen is being worked to death…….they have been lucky…sometime that luck will run out.
Michael
I think the problem is it is always about price, and quanity, instead of quality.
You almost always pay for what you get.
I agree and disagree:
Kazmir, McCarthy and Anderson are being paid $40.9 million this year. They have 11 win.
Greinke, Miller and Clippard are being paid $44.4 million this year. They have 15 wins. Big deal. Every team has bad deals. The different is that ours are short term.
You aren’t going to like the next one, but Grandal is left and he is an All-Star (Yes he will be an All-Star). Kemp is a bum!
Hatcher is a disaster, but Barnes and Hernandez are 24 and 25 and if you don’t like Ravin (who drank a prohibited sports drink), then you should really hate the cheater Gordon.
The jury is still out on Hill and Reddick….
Maybe the pen has been lucky or maybe they just have depth and FAZ has done a masterful job of handling it.
Clippard isn’t a starting pitcher.
And wins are not always how well a pitcher has pitched.
It can be more run support.
It is 16 days and counting since they got Hill and Reddick. Hill is still on the DL, and Reddick has provided bupkis. I have never seen as much coming and going as with this team. You might enjoy watching that kind of crap, but I think it is ridiculous. I know we will never agree on this, so in reality it is a moot point. I am just saying, if they had Hamels, and Sale, who would have cost prospects, who may or may not ever contribute, they might have gotten to the series last year with Hamels, and with the 2 of them in the starting rotation, they might be in a much better position than they are now. I know Mark is a believer in what FAZ is doing. I am not.
I disagree Grandal will be an all star..he is what he is a catcher who will hit 225 to 245 with power…..
Clippard and Miller are relievers – not a fair comparison.
And McCarthy is a 4 year investment – Kazmir is 3.
Miller is a starter.
Clippard is a reliever whom they paid $6+ mil.
And Miller has been in the minors for more than a month. He also was obtained in a trade, which has to be so far one of the worst the D Backs have ever made.
More important than rehashing the same crap every few days, did you all see Trevor Oaks for OKC today??
9ip, 3 hits, 1 run, 0bb, 11k. That’s a great game, especially in the PCL!!
Bobby
I read that is someone’s comments.
Are you watching the Giants game?
Means nothing until he proves he can do it at the major league level. Stewart was pitching great down there too and got lit up when he came up….
Well in the Giant, Pirates game, it is the third inning, and the Pirates don’t have one hit yet.
Unlike in all of our games, where we were behind, before we even came up to bat.
And Matt Moore is pitching.
Next year here is what the starters obligations by team are:
SF Giants – $84 million (5 starting pitchers)
Dodgers – $81 million (12 starting pitchers)
The Giants traded two of their top starting prospects.
I like our chances….
I am just mad that we gave those two games away to the Pirates.
The Giants seem to handle the Pirates better then we do.
The Padres had just won there series against the Pirates in Pittsburg, in the series before our series.
Who are the 12 pitchers?
Kershaw
Kazmir
McCarthy
Maeda
Ryu
Urias
De Leon
Stewart
Oaks
De Jong
Stripling
Buehler
This season is important… thus Hill, Norris, Chavez and Reddick, but it’s all about the long term….
Thanks Mark
I’m sure that the Giants would include some of their farmhands in the list of potential starting pitchers for 2017 as well. I hate the Giants too, but let’s be intellectually honest here.
Pirates just took the lead on the Giants!