Wednesday, July 24, 2024
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The Yasiel Puig Demotion is the Right Move

The trade deadline passed without Yasiel Puig going anywhere. That was a bit of a surprise.  The Dodgers let it be known to parts near and far that he was on the trading block.

There was no “Yasiel Puig is a valuable part of the Dodgers..blah, blah. We have no intention of trading him…blah”, smoke screen like they threw up while they were shopping Dee Gordon. Nope, the Dodgers made it so every team with access to a smart phone knew Puig was being marketed. You and I knew it, and Senor Puig definitely knew it as well.

As a Yasiel Puig fan, I came into this season willing to give him one more chance to bring forth all of that baseball talent that I know is brewing within him. I also told myself (and anyone else who would listen to my baseball rantings) that my cut off point would be this trade deadline. My patience with the Grand Puig Experiment is exhausted as well.

While it’s true that Puig had bounced back pretty well from his recent stint on the disabled list, the key words in that statement are “his recent stint on the disabled list”.

Puig’s hamstrings have always had the reliability of dry rubber bands, snapping and tearing on an almost annual basis.


His hamstring betrayed him yet again this season, and fairly quickly after coming off the DL, he again came up lame while running down to first. He missed a few starts, and this weekend was his first time back on the basepaths since that last scare.

Puig may have been born with all the talent in the world, but the universe is cruel, because he was also given unreliable muscles inside of those tree trunk legs. Unfortunately, I think they are going to snap and rip for the rest of his career.

So I can definitely see why the Dodgers tried to trade him, and I fully agree with that decision. His name was popping up in rumors about a trade with the White Sox, but that didn’t pan out. No one really knows why not.

Which brings me to why this demotion of Puig to OKC is the right move. Puig’s hamstrings were not his only problem.

While the Wild Horse is exciting to watch when he’s stretching a single into a triple, he hasn’t learned (YET!) the fundamentals of baserunning. While his arm has produced some of the most incredible put outs that I’ve ever seen, he’s also missed the cut off man on routine plays more times than I can remember.

It’s said you’ve got to have a lot of little boy in you to play this game. Trouble is, Puig has shown his immature side a few times too many. I’m not privy to things that go on in the clubhouse or on team buses, but I’ve seen flashes of immaturity during games. I’m pretty sure the reputation has been earned to a degree.

Management made it known they wanted to part ways with Puig. So why bring the guy along when he’s got maturity issues and there are plenty of other Dodgers (including a new one) who don’t make the same fundamental baseball mistakes over and over?

Folks on Twitter have been comparing slash lines of Puig with Scott Van Slyke, Kike Enrique Hernandez, and Andrew Toles and insisting Puig is the better player. I know Puig swings a bigger bat, and makes more spectacular plays defensively, but he doesn’t do so on a regular basis. And every time he begins to do so regularly – the hamstring pops.

Give me an Andrew Toles. Give me a player who consistently hits doubles, and steals bases without getting hurt every few weeks.

Yasiel Puig will be expected to work on the fundamentals – and his maturity – while he’s at OKC. Who knows, he may find that consistency he’s looking for down there. While we’re fantasizing, let’s imagine Dodgers’ management will see those changes and welcome him back to the big club with open arms.

Or other teams will see his trade value rise and risk an investment in the mercurial Puig.

Some are saying Puig’s got nothing to learn in the minors. I’m taking a different track and saying he’s got plenty to learn down there. Since there’s plenty that hasn’t sunk in at The Show level yet.


Oscar Martinez

I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully was the golden voice of summer all my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodgers manager ever. My favorite things are coffee, beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.

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Oscar Martinez
I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully was the golden voice of summer all my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodgers manager ever. My favorite things are coffee, beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.

77 thoughts on “The Yasiel Puig Demotion is the Right Move

    1. Excellent opinion Oscar. See my post on the last blog to Scott comparing Puig with Reddick on some vital stats this year. I didn’t compare them on running the bases and Reddick doesn’t steal that many but he does have an 83% success rate when he does.

  1. Injuries, rehabilitation, and health management are integral parts of every professional sports team. I remember about a decade ago, the Warriors were a team with oft-injured players. This continued through some seasons with a lot of debate by fans as to whether it was time to make a change to the medical staff of the team. The incumbents had a long history with the Warriors and good reputations. When the team finally made the change to a different set of health professionals, there was a noticeable difference.

    Injuries are inevitable in pro sports, but careful management of players, proper strength training and supervision, and a very good physical therapy staff can make a big difference keeping players at peak and minimizing injuries. Perhaps the Dodgers can do with a change. They tried changing managers, but we’re not seeing much difference here.

  2. Just some thoughts this morning. I’m really not on either side of this Puig situation. In fact if it was me, he would have been dealt a long time ago and I said that last year. He would have been moved this past off season for sure. But many are critical of his injuries. So sending him down is it ok if he takes it easy, you know, don’t injure the hammy or will he be seen as ‘moping.’ If he tears it up, well does that really mean he’s found it (as we all know there is a substantial difference in the pitching talents in AAA compared to the Majors.) If he doesn’t hit well, then his value drops even more as him being a .260 hitter at LA carries more weight than .260 or less at AAA.

    Saying that there were no takers is entirely inaccurate. He has ‘some’ value. He’s as valuable as any of the 3 prospects that were just dealt to Oakland. Oakland would have taken him over any of those 3. FAZ did not want to trade him. FAZ is playing a game with Puig. Might work, might not. They are acting as if NO ONE wanted him and that he is on his last leg with the organization.

    FAZ is also putting themselves in a situation where they appear to be the ‘good’ guy. If Puig continues to be injured (trying to get back to the bigs) or under performs than everyone will understand why they released him (either before his contract is up or after.)

    One must ask if the support system, both physically and emotionally will be there to help. Does AAA have better trainers? Does AAA have better coaching?

    1. I just gave my Puig thoughts on the other thread. I’ll regurgitate –

      Management wasn’t about to give him away. This is a 5 tool player that put up over 10 WAR before the age of 24. That fact alone is remarkable. What happened? It looks simple to me. First, he lacks plate discipline and if that wasn’t enough his relaxed load mechanics make him late on inside fastballs. I know what I would try but apparently no coaches we have can get through to him. He’s easy to pitch to and the method used by every staff in the league is as old as the game itself – heat up and in, sliders down and away. Until he adjusts he’s a .250 hitter at best.

      So now he’s in the minors and no doubt pissed off. I hope his agent can talk to him and get him to listen.

      One more suggestion Yassie – while in Oklahoma become a vegan and do Pilates and a lot of yoga. You still need to lose some of that bulk. You’re carrying about 20 pounds too much weight down the first base line.

      1. Would agree with your analysis of what the issue is. So now to fix it.

        But when he readily admits to not reviewing tape one must wonder how serious he is to making the appropriate adjustments. Also I would have his eyes checked. It’s not the 91 mph fastball that is the issue, its the fact that he does not appear to pick up the spin on the ball therefore he is committing to swinging while the ball is breaking out of the zone.

        It would seem that someone that has access to just about anything that he needs or wants would make the necessary adjustments but he has always gotten by on his natural talent and performing well when he first came up might end up being his demise in LA.

        I believe for Puig to even have a chance to excel it will need to be with a different organization and he will need to land somewhere where there is a strong Cuban presence. He needs a mentor, someone that is professional and has adjusted to the states. That’s why I thought a deal with the Sox (with Jose Abreu being there and seemingly, well grounded) would have been the best landing spots for Puig. Chicago is a big city so he would have that as well. I personally would have traded Puig & Urias amongst others for Sale. I think that would have been a win-win situation. But that did not happen so here we go on the roller coaster known as ‘Puig.’

      2. Badger
        Puig has trouble hitting a fastball that is right down the middle of the plate.

        He actually has a very good eye, when it comes to inside pitches, and he has always had a good eye, with inside pitches.

        Steve Garvey was talking about Puig a month or a couple of months ago, and he said that Puig can’t hit a fastball, right down the middle of the plate.

        Nomar has said this same thing, and he hadn’t even worked with Garvey, so it has been a few former major league hitters, who have noticed this.

        And we are talking about fastballs, that are only at 91 .

        Maybe your correction would help Puig, but he difinitly has a problem hitting fastballs.

        They have some charts out there, that show the pitches and there location, that he is missing.

        He was never developed properly, because he was rushed up to the major league team, because he was contributing and producing, and he along with Hanley, helped the team to turn around and helped the Dodgers take the west.

        But his offensive stats have went down every year, and we’re not that great this year.

        But I now think there is more to this, then just the obvious.

        Remember when Mattingly told the press that Puig’s hammy miraculously had healed, and he was now able to play in the post season last year?

        Mattingly thought Puig was faking his hammy problem then.

        Maybe Puig’s hammy really wasn’t that bad, maybe he did that, because he didn’t want to be traded.

        He never went on the DL, and he played Sunday.

        And a hammy usually doesn’t heal that fast.

        And maybe this is why the management is doing this and feeling this way about Puig.

        It wouldn’t be the first time that Someone thought Puig was claiming he was hurt, and people doubted him.

        And I think Roberts gives his players a lot of support, so I don’t see him trying to do or say anything bad about Puig, without some pretty good information, or proof.

        And think about it, there has to be more with this, then just performance.

        The only thing I am wondering, will AAA be a good place for Puig to learn how to hit, and learn what he is doing wrong?

        Do they have the people in AAA?

        Because I think most players, probably learn in the lower divisions.

        Also the Dodgers hitting coach, had said he thought Puig could learn, but it would take some time, so maybe this will be the best thing for Puig, and the Dodgers.

        1. MJ, I’ve address what I think is the problem with Puig “not hitting fastballs down the middle”. I think I see what the problem is. He’s too slow at bat arrival in the hitting zone. Why? In my experience it means a. he is guessing wrong or b. his hands arrive late because his load mechanics are all wrong. Or, maybe both.

          Look, if I can see it you can bet a Major League hitting instructor can see it. I have said before it looks to me that he has trouble with pitch recognition. That’s a question of picking up spin right away. I’ve said this before, I once read an article that claimed Babe Ruth had 20/10 vision in both eyes. That’s remarkable. He could read the numbers on license plates before others in the car could tell what color the plate was. I measured 20/10 in my right eye, 20/20 in my left. I could see spin right away and I thought everyone could. I didn’t learn til high school that I had a gift others did not. What an advantage. I’m thinking, as is chili, Puig may need to have his eyes checked. He chases way too many balls. If it isn’t vision, then the next thing is to raise his hands in the pre load, get a lighter bat and choke up an inch or so with two strikes and just attempt to square up that fastball and punch it through the middle of the diamond. I’ve worked on this myself, and I’ve helped others with a two strike approach. Puig at times looks lost up there. His confidence is waning and that is where a coach with good communication skills comes in. Who in Oklahoma can get through to this young man. Can anybody get through to him?

          1. Badger
            I have actually heard former players, saying the almost exact thing, that you just said, about load mechanics.
            And I thought about Puig’s vision too, but I would assume that they would have already thought about Puig’s vision, especially with Vinny bringing Puig’s vision up during the broadcast.

            But Puig did come from a country that isn’t to modern, so who knows if his eyes were ever checked.

            I am still mad about Moore, and our front office, not doing anything to stop the Giants.

          2. Badger:
            I completely agree with your assessment of Puig.
            I didn’t know Babe Ruth has 20/10 vision but I read somewhere Ted Williams also had 20/10 vision. I wonder how many other players have/had that kind of vision. Anybody know?

  3. Good article, Oscar. You bringing up Toles is an important point because his level of productivity since being acquired makes Puig expendable. If Reddick is the solid contact hitter and professional player the Dodgers sought as an upgrade, then Toles is the better backup outfielder.

    I kept hoping Puig would come around, and maybe he will, but you also need professionals on a team making a playoff push and don’t have time for immaturity, a lack of discipline and focus, and just the inability to hit a major league fastball anymore. I read somewhere how Mattingly had to replace him in the lineup against the Cardinals with Ethier because he was just emotionally broken. There are physical skills and abilities, and there are mental skills and psychological resilience. I don’t think he has it.

    1. Dodger patch
      I agree that Puig just isn’t able to perform with any pressure.

      He has his worse at bats, in clutch situations, and how many throws do you remember Puig throwing to home, to throw a runner out, on a sac fly?

      I don’t remember any myself.

      It seems to me when Puig has to much time to think, he messes up.

      Any time Puig has had to throw home to throw a runner out on a sac fly, instead of getting his body inline, and making a accurate throw, he instead rushes his throw, and his throw is not accurate.

      But when Puig races to get a ball in the outfield, and has to turn around and make a throw to third, he makes a good an accurate throw, because everything happens so quickly, he doesn’t have time to think.

      I have suggested maybe they should get a hypotist for Puig because of this reason.

      But he has trouble hitting fastballs, and that is a big problem, because most hitters in the majors, can hit fastballs.

  4. I’m going with Oscar… I’m going with Badger… I’m going with an OF that understands the cut off man concept, the proper way to slide and show a great interest in the game…
    From #2 ROY candidate to OKC… A friendly contract and no one wanted you???
    Honestly I will be at the Ravine to welcome you home with leaner legs and a renewed interest/discipline, but I’m worried about you becoming/reminding me of one of the greatest PCL OFs I ever saw who just couldn’t get it …. Carlos Bernier- Holly wood Stars – property of Pittsburgh Bucs…

  5. I hopes this helps him. I hope he finds success–if not in LA, then, somewhere else. He was center stage in giving me the most entertaining and exciting baseball that I have ever seen outside of the post season. I really want that player back. Let’s take up a collection to send Badger to OC with Puig to make the necessary repairs.

  6. Brim over at DD gives a strong argument on how and why Hill could work. It sounds like the same data used in argumenting both Kazmir and Maeda signings.

    I just read in a Special Report the Schumann Resonance had an accelerated spike from 7.83 Hz, the resonance of Om, to as high as 16.5 Hz, causing a battle in the earth’s magnetosphere. That is not good news for Kershaw’s back, Puig’s rehab or Hill’s swing and miss rate, though I would have a difficult time explaining exactly why I find that to be true.

  7. I would like to know how much better the Giants prospects, along with Duffy were then the prospects we gave up for the A’s players.

    How do they compare, is what I am saying.

    Because the pitcher the Giants got, is not a rental.

    And he has an era of 2.49 in his last seven games.

    How were the Giants able to get this pitcher, and why couldn’t Friedman get this pitcher, to keep him away from the Giants?

    Now the Giants have three pretty decent pitchers, that do pitch deep into games.

    And the Dodgers only have one pitcher, that does pitch deep into games, and that is Kershaw.

    I don’t get the pitcher that they traded Bolsinger for, because Stripling is doing a good job as a long reliever, and he has done it more successfully then this Bluejay’s, and former A’s pitcher has.

    Is this pitcher going to bump Stripling down to AAA?

    1. If Friedman is so good, why was the Giants GM, able to steal Moore, right under Friedman’s own nose?

      And from the team that Friedman, once was a part of, and was having heavy discussions with, right before the trade deadline.

      1. MJ,

        I’m going to put on my red ‘Mark is Great Again’ hat……

        This isn’t necessarily my take on it but the reason that the Rays might not have traded with Friedman is because they know him. Or because maybe they view him as being good. Or they just evaluated the Giants offer as being the better offer.

        Alright, back to myself. FAZ has a lot to learn when competing with the big boys. There will be times when you have to step out of your comfort zone, whether that is upping a trade or signing a free agent. It seems to me that they set a bar and that is that. The problem with that is the bar that is being set should be what talent do we need to be perennial WS contenders. Once it is established that ‘we need 3 of these (good starting pitchers)’ and ‘5 of these (professional .285+, 20HR + guys)’ then its a matter of getting them. That is what the big boys do and FAZ has yet to learn to do so.

      1. Dodger patch
        This pitcher has only been able to pitch 570 innings in 13 years.

        As you know, the gold standard that starting pitchers go by is pitching 200 innings in a season.

        In 13 years he has almost pitched as many innings, that a good starting pitcher, would have pitched in three years.

        This pitcher was pitching in the independent league, before last year.

        I’m afraid that this pitcher’s stats look better then Moore, only because this guy Hill hasn’t pitched that much, in a career, that has spanned 13 years.

        And Moore is coming back from TJ surgery, and has pitched really well, in his last seven games, and totally stymied the Dodgers whole line up, when he pitched against them, last week.

        And Moore is younger, and under a very reasonble contract, he is not a rental.

  8. Let’s count all of the former A’s that our GM has brought to the Dodgers.

    McCarthy, Anderson, Johnson, Hill, Reddick, Calaspo.

    And some wonder why some people think this GM is turning the Dodgers in to the A’s and Rays.

    And I haven’t even named the former Rays here.

    1. I’ve thought the same thing, many times. A two trick pony. I wonder if this is a common trend among GM’s, dealing only with teams that they know personally. This would be a scouting issue, in fact, a lack of scouting.

      1. Jeff
        There were a lot of pitchers, in the national league, that this front office could have got to strengthen the bullpen, but they only seemed glued to the A’s and the Rays, even though they have 8 former GMs in the Dodgers front office.

    1. I read a tweet from an A’s writer, that
      said Hill would be able to pitch Friday.

      The Dodgers may not do that, but that is the word from the A’s.

  9. The reason Puig was sent down wasn’t so much his lack of talent, etc. He’s a better player than SVS and always will be. But he is a knucklehead. He doesn’t learn. He is not coachable. I’m not sure he is that tough. Tough enough to endure nicks and scrapes. Basically he is a baby. He might grow up some day and become a mature talent, but he hasn’t shown much development in the years with the team. My guess is that his days at OKC will be very average, primarily because he will be pouting. He is a trade waiting to happen. When? Who knows? The best thing about yesterday was losing him. Addition by subtraction.
    I saw Mattingly on TV yesterday after a loss to the Cubs. What a difference in personality! He sounds like a blue collar, players’ manager, not like the wuss he appeared to be with the Dodgers. I couldn’t believe it. What a change.

    1. Maybe Mattingly has learned a thing or two about management. This was the wrong fit for him. He’s doing something right in Miami.

      1. I give Barry Bonds the credit there, because he has transformed a few of the Marlins players, into pretty good hitters.

        But this stat is typical Mattingly, even though the Marlins have a pretty good team batting average, and have a lot of good hitters, they still have trouble scoring runs.

        Doesn’t sound familiar ?

    2. Or maybe they’re actually letting him manage. You’re right, he just seemed to be punching the clock here.

      1. Snider
        What was Mattingly’s problem, before this front office took over?

        This front office was only here for one year, when Mattingly, managed this team.

          1. Snider
            Good answer , but he was given the job, and he managed 2011, 12, 13, 14, before Faz was here.

  10. We traded a little of the future to patch a few potholes. The road wasn’t repaved or widened.

    RF is still available for Puig in 2017. That didn’t change.

    Dodgers still have 8 starters for the 2018 / 2019 season.

  11. Is it possible that FAZ just tarnished their image (if that is possible)?

    They asked for elite impact players (we assume) in exchange for a “five tool, contract friendly, on the correct side of 30 player”. Then when that fails turn around and demote that five tool player.

    One thing is trying to get the best of a trade, another thing is selling smoke. Will FAZ now be seen as selling smoke, meaning only teams like the A’s and Rays will listen? I mean who else does something like this?

  12. If he was sent down to get his swing corrected, or to prove he can stay on the field I’m all for it. If he was sent down because he’s still a problem in the locker I’m all for it, but from all accounts made public at least, he hasn’t been a problem. If he was sent down because he won’t do film study I’m all for it. If he was sent down just to get some consistent AB’s because he’s been hurt so much, so be it.

    However, to cite Toles as a reason is silly. He has even fewer AB’s than Puig did when Puig set the world on fire so I would hardly refer to him as a consistent doubles hitter. I like him, but we haven’t seen enough to tell and he’s another lefty which the Dodgers have too many and he also had his off the field issues, but he gets an automatic pass. Once again I like Toles.

    The Dodgers don’t need two Mendoza line hitter in Taylor and Kike. Kike hasn’t done crap with the exception of hitting Madbum. Taylor hasn’t done crap since his one game. Seager will be playing day in and day out. With all of the recent off days, they don’t need Taylor until Sept. 1st.

    Puig has hit over .300 since he came off the DL. His OBP is around .390 and his slugging is at .480 in that same period. I’ve got my share of issues with him as a player, but unless he was sent down for one of the issues I cited earlier the team is not better off without him especially in Colorado.

    Would an inaccurate story about a player storming off be reported about anyone other than Puig?

    1. I read in the LA Times, that Puig has been back to being that player, that isn’t good in the club house or with his team mates.

      This was written from the Times writer, that travels with the team.

      1. Same writer who wrote the he stormed out story, which was false since he was not even there at the request of the team, and according to Roberts, who I trust more than the pundits, Yasiel has not been a problem. He was late a couple of times and fined…

  13. I just cannot believe there was no interest from other teams in acquiring Puig. I have to believe this is an effort by the Dodgers to convince him to correct his problems. I guess that is OK but dishonesty just doesn’t set well with me.

    1. Smoke screen my friend….we can see it clearly, but the pundits sit on every word the FAZ master says…

  14. My take, and not the end all know all on Puig and the deadline trades. Sending Puig down was a message. The message is you need to produce and produce consistently in this league. It is also a wake up call. Knowing he was on the trading block and nobody was willing to jump, should make him want to show the whole baseball world who Yasiel Puig can be, not who he is at this point, Because what he is is a undisciplined hitter who is missing pitches he should crush and swinging at pitches he has absolutely no shot hitting. He lacks the knowledge of fundamental baseball and is hard headed about being coached. Some of that, not all, can be blamed on being blessed with 5-tool talent and never before really having to work on getting better. Part of the blame should be directed at the Dodger brain trust and coaches who never pounded into his head the need to be adjusting all the time. Look at Corey Seager. The kid is constantly adjusting to what the pitchers are trying to do. In the old days a manager would have fined Puig for missing the cut off man, or throwing to the wrong base to try and nail a runner. Stronger managers would have told him to get his butt in the video room and study his at bats. He has a ton of talent and now his future in the game is pretty much in his hands. He can make himself indispensable, or he can be a blip in Dodger history. No one expects the Puig of the first 3 months of his career, what they expect is a highly productive OF with savvy and smarts. As for the deadline deals, well according to many pundits the Dodgers are vastly improved and made, along with Texas, great trades. Well, I think trading 3 top prospects for rentals is a little crazy, even if they were not the cream of the crop. Sure, Hill and Reddick can resign, but how long and how much> ? Hill is 36, Archer and Moore are in their 20’s. Are you telling me a 36 year old 2 month rental, and an OF in his walk year were the best we could do for those 3 kids? Not the GM so I have no clue. I was a bit surprised they went after what the A’s were dangling instead of the Rays, who by the way I am getting tired of seeing in Dodger uni’s. Chavez was also a A at one time. According to reports I heard on MLB Hill is supposed to be back by the weekend. Now he has been pitching well, but how does that translate to the NL? Chavez has given up 9 homers. Not a great stat for a reliever, and if memory serves we have a few of those already. Now he can also start….great….now he can give up dingers early. Fields does not even go into the equation as he is headed to OKC. I have to reserve judgement a little until I see how these guys help the team. But my gut says we could have done better. And these are FAR from the elite players Friedman was saying he was going after….Might be a slight upgrade, but impactful? I do not see these guys as difference makers. .. Also best job of spin doctoring and blowing smoke I have heard in years was Faidi on KLAC yesterday afternoon saying how fans were going to be excited by these guys. Excitement would have been watching Sale starting his first game at Dodger stadium…..Hill does not create the same buzz……and Reddick although a solid player does not put fear in Giants pitchers, ,,,and guess what…..he does not hit lefty’s well………sound familiar>>>???????

    1. Michael said: . In the old days a manager would have fined Puig for missing the cut off man, or throwing to the wrong base to try and nail a runner. Stronger managers would have told him to get his butt in the video room and study his at bats.

      Sounds to me like we have the wrong manager. Or did you mean the guy who REALLY manages the team?

      1. I mean the guy who really runs the team….Puig would never pull that stuff with Alston or Lasorda who had real control. Somewhere along the way the suits started getting their 2 cents worth in.

    2. Michael
      This was well written, and a good thought on Puig, and Puig’s problems, since he has came to the Dodgers.

      I just wish Roberts could fine these pitchers, that are constantly giving up hits, or even more, when they have two strikes on a hitter.

      Most of the saber people thought that this was a good trade, and Hill is a good pitcher.

      But those saber people of course, are only looking at numbers.

      This pitcher Hill, has a long injury history, and both players are just rentals.

      And I think the Giants front office did a better job, and they only have one GM.

      1. Well I have never seen a manager or a team fining pitchers that give up a lot of hits or homers. I did see Tommy go off on Doug Rau one time, and when a mic was on. Rant went something like, how in the hell could you throw a pitch like that to a hitter this bad??????? With a few expletives thrown in for good measure. Usually, if a pitcher is consistently bad, they get demoted rather than fined. Hatcher will not be back this year according to all the reports, combination of his injury and his lack of effectiveness….I think we could have gotten Moore for a similar package with one MLB ready player going back to the Rays, Kike maybe or someone like that….

  15. Excited? This should be good. Did someone ask when Hill was going to make his next start? After all he has only made 2 starts since May 29th.

    And evidently an ‘elite’ player in FAZ’s eyes is someone that has a career BA of .255.

  16. I just don’t see this year’s Dodgers as having any shot of winning it all so I have a problem giving up Montas and Holmes. I hope I’m wrong. I think 5 yrs ago everyone was complaining that the Dodgers don’t develope their own like the Cardinals. Now that the Dodgers are doing that everyone wants to trade the farm.

    Seems like a lot of the criticism directed toward Puig’s play is stuff he was doing two years ago. He doesn’t consistently miss the cutoff man like he used to. He’s still a bad base runner. Not as bad as he was but still bad. His inability to hit a decent fastball is maddening but he’s still putting up good numbers since returning from DL.

    Seems like he will always get measured against his first season. What if he’s just a .280-285 hitter who hits about 15HRs and plays great defense.? The Cardinals just paid a boatload of money for that. Puig’s deal is cheap.

    So this has to be about stuff behind the scenes or just getting him AB’s.

    I don’t blame the Dodgers for not taking .50 cents on the dollar for him. Apparently they couldn’t even get a good bullpen arm for him.

    1. I agree with that assessment. I think this is deeper, but I also think it is a motivational tool…

      1. Michael
        I still think the Giants front office made better deals.

        I think the Dodger owners should start expecting more, from all of these former GMs, in the front office.

        The Giants scouts must all seen the game that Moore, pitched against the Dodgers last week.

        And even though Friedman was in talks with the Rays for a while, the Giants were able to scoop up Moore, even though Friedman is suppose to have such deep ties to that team.

        1. And Michael
          I am glad you took this time, for yourself, so that you can be there for your friend, because that isn’t going to be easy.

          1. Thanks, I head back home tomorrow….with at least 9 new Dodger bobble heads in my collection……LOL….,make that 11……I pre ordered the Seager and Kendrick bobbles….

        2. Maybe, just maybe there are too many talking heads in the room……Fred Claire was a better GM than any of these guys and he did not need saber-metrics….he used old fashioned scouting reports. Even though he was GM when Piazza was traded he was not told about the deal, and after it was made, by ownership, not him, he said he never would have made that trade…..which pretty much doomed his future with the team…….sad,, he was a good baseball guy…

      2. Not necessarily, if Hill can pitch well down the stretch and Reddick continues to rake. But my complaint is we haven’t addressed the need for a hitter who can pound lefties (Reddick .179) or a #2 starter for 2017. And Chavez looks like another Hatcher.

      1. Sorry, yes the Cubs. Although the Cardinals offered him more. I would be content if Puig was a .285 hitter and playing great D, but from the article in the LA Times, it appears that this is more about accepting coaching and taking care of himself physically. If that’s the case, I hope he wakes up.

    2. Hawkeye
      No one here , wants them to trade are top prospects, unless they can get an unbelievable deal.

      But not all prospects are major league players.

      1. Agreed. I bet a year ago there were plenty who would have traded Seager and how about when Kershaw was a prospect. I would have had no problem dealing Urias for Sale, but no way am I dealing Urias, Deleon, Bellinger, and Verdugo. Gonzalez is on a decline. Not a terrible decline, but I’m betting after next season we will all be happy that Bellinger is in the system still.

  17. I was for standing pat with an eye on ’18 when the FA market will have a different look to it and those three players we just moved are on the team or on the long list of excellent prospects we have been stacking for 5 years and can now move for the right pieces……..

    That said, if Hill and Reddick help bring home a championship I will happily eat crow.

  18. Lots of emotion in here about the trades.

    FAZ: rather give 2 hamburgers tomorrow for 1 hamburger today.

    See ya Holmes, Cotton, Mantas.

  19. Getting rid of Puig was the right move. Getting rid of Garvey, Beltre, and Piazza were bonehead moves. Puig is not disciplined, is a baby, and has no work ethic. He is a shyster. His injuries may be legitimate, but that would be because he is too big for his frame. Didn’t he show up to spring training once, overweight? He’s 6’3″ 245-250, he should be about 225. He should also read Charlie Lau’s book on hitting. He holds his bat like a flag pole and doesn’t bend his knees enough. His bat should be cocked behind his head, with the barrel almost pointed toward the pitcher. His left arm should be back towards the HP umpire and his left and right hand near his ear with the right arm bent such as when one makes a bicep. With his knees bent he can react to low or high pitches quickly and keeping his left arm in and nearly straight allows him to pull the barrel in for an inside pitch or extend for an outside pitch.

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