After pitching in just one game over the past two seasons, many figured Hyun-Jin Ryu to be washed up and finished in the major leagues. According to Ryu’s agency, A-Spec Corp, he is continuing his rehab, and expecting to be ready for Spring Training 2017.
Ryu is heading out to the island of Okinawa this week, to begin specialized training with Jang Min-Jae, a former teammate from his playing days in the Korean Baseball Organization (KBO).
Hyun-Jin Ryu began his ML career with the Dodgers in 2013. He adjusted quickly from Korean baseball and started out well enough with a .636 winning percentage, improving to .667% in 2014. He won 14 games in each of his first two seasons, recording a 3.17 ERA, with 7.7 K/9 and 2.0 BB/9.
Unfortunately, the southpaw was dogged by a bad shoulder which put him on the 15-day DL early in the 2014 season. Eventually the pain became so bad, his season was shut down early. He underwent shoulder surgery, and he sat out the entire 2015 campaign.
Last season Ryu wasn’t able to return to the Dodgers’ lineup until July, right before the All-Star break. He pitched in only one game, and it was horrid. He gave up six earned runs in just 4 2/3 innings. Ryu was diagnosed with tendinitis in his left elbow and he didn’t pitch again in 2016.
Ryu underwent elbow surgery after the season, and he’s reportedly healed up and ready to get back to work in preparation for Spring Training.
“Ryu will be working out on his own for three weeks. He wants to get into better form before leaving for Arizona in late January.” – A-Spec Corp.
The last time Ryu pitched with any regularity, he was the number three starter behind dual-aces Clayton Kershaw and Zack Greinke. The starting rotation has changed quite a bit since then, and the Dodgers aren’t making any commitments or predictions about where Ryu might fit in for the coming season.
“If he’s healthy, he’s going to be in our rotation” to begin the 2017 campaign.” –Dodgers GM Farhad Zaidi
Ryu, now 29 years old, will earn $7 million for 2017, and is under contract with the Dodgers through 2018.
Can Ryu bounce back? To do so will take complete recoveries from major elbow and shoulder surgeries. The man won an MVP award in the Korean big leagues and adjusted well to the American majors, pitching as a number three starter when he would have been number two on many other teams. He clearly knows how to work hard and achieve success.
Hyun-Jin Ryu has the mental part of the game under control, but the question for next season is – will his body follow?
Oscar Martinez
I was born in the shadow of Dodger Stadium and immediately drenched in Dodger Blue. Chavez Ravine is my baseball cathedral, Vin Scully was the golden voice of summer all my life, and Tommy Lasorda remains the greatest Dodgers manager ever. My favorite things are coffee, beer, and the Dodgers beating the Giants. I also blog about my baseball card hobby at All Trade Bait, All the Time.
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Hopefully he can come back, but I’ll have to see it to believe it. Too much PR flack over last two years to believe anything his agent says.
Okinawa seems like a strange place for pre-spring training, but sometimes we don’t know so much. I think of Okinawa as being close to Japan, and it is. I also think of Japan as close to Alaska and Russia, and it is. But somehow Okinawa ends up about ONE DEGREE north of Miami, Florida. Surprises the heck out of me…
Scratched my itch. Thanks Art.
Ryu will be back or he won’t.
That’s my opinion.
I totally disagree.
I think he wont be back, or he will
love
bobby
Its funny how two people can come at something from two different ways and wind up in the same spot all the while disagreeing with each other.
Sort of like the Democrats and Republicans…
Speaking of Democrats and their various ways to solve a problem— https://www.facebook.com/paradase.vallescrivia/videos/734616606700834/
That is a funny link. It will make you laugh.
Bum
Wasn’t Ryu’s elbow surgery, just a clean up?
I wish he could come back.
He was a good pitcher, and he was fun, to watch hit.
It must be hard on him, he is only 29.
I think so MJ about his elbow. I think he will pitch well next year but I have no clue how many innings the Dodgers will get out of him.
Bum
That was cute
And Bobby is doing it with love too.
Thanks Bum!
UCLA is playing tonight at six, in the west.
Watching now. UCLA dominating so far.
Remember Drew Storen?
The Reds signed him for one year, yesterday.
He didn’t pitch well at the begining of the season, last year.
But he pitched much better for Seattle, at the end of the season.
He use to be the National’s closer.
Do you think he could have been a good set up guy, for the Dodgers?
And now they say it is the Cubs and Texas, in on Tyson Ross.
Bum
Walton never shuts up.
This isn’t much of a game tonight, but I want to get more familiar with the players, before they hit the tournament.
Walton not only talks non-stop he is constantly harassing the play by play guy.
I read (or heard on a podcast) that many considered his injuries career threatening.
I’d put the odds under 50%, but I know nothing.
Both?
Here’s the deal on Ryu:
Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling had labrum surgery, but so did Mark Prior and Mark Mulder!
LOTS of pitchers have had the surgery, about a 1/3 never make it back. Another 1/3 come back strong and another 1/3 are medicure.
I have no opinion or expectations on Ryu, McCarthy or Kazmir, but statistics and probability tell me that at least one will pitch well… maybe two. Who that will be… I have no clue?
That’s the fun of baseball. You never know AND all you naysayers will eat a helping of crow… and I enjoy that as much as the next guy!
Orel came back, and that was a long time ago.
I hope it is Ryu, because he is a good pitcher.
I had labrum surgery the day before Thanksgiving. It’s what they call a slap tear which means it’s the top toward the bicep tendon. Some labrum tears are more toward the back of the shoulder. In my case, it involved moving and I believe shortening the bicep tendon. It’s going to be a long road before I’m throwing BP to the kids I coach. I should be able to swing a golf club before I can throw a baseball. I pitched A LOT as a kid. Loved every minute of it. I hit six weeks yesterday and was a bit ahead of schedule, but I’m only beginning to do any minor strength stuff and have a ways to go with range of motion too. Anyways, I seem to remember Ryu’s shoulder damage was supposed to be on the minimal side as far as labrums go.
A few year’s ago I was working with my son in the batting cages and a former pro pitcher, Jim Magrane, who had just pitched in Korea was there too. I picked his brain about Ryu because none of us had seen him pitch yet. He felt that they were hiding some sort of injury back then. Only he thought it was too his elbow. He said his velocity was much lower than he was led to believe when he got to Korea and that he was always wearing something to cover his elbow. As he described it is was very unusual not just a basic sleeve under his jersey. I’m not doing the story justice.
Hawkeye
Good luck with your recovery!
It must be tough for you right now.
Now that you mention Ryu’s injury, I do think it was not that bad too.
But of course the former pitcher you talked to, was right about Ryu.
And it is still unbelievable that the Dodgers signed him, knowing about his injury before hand.
And what I read they didn’t even consult a doctor, they just had the head trainer look at it.
Orel said that the shoulder is so much harder to come back from, because you have to get something like three or more muscles, to work in conduction with each other on a shoulder.
I don’t remember the exact number.
You know more then me Hawkeye, because you just went through the surgery.
I believe Ryu’s elbow was just a clean up.
I hope you have a fast and successful recovery!
Thank You. It’s mostly a test of patience. If I do my exercises it will come around eventually. The boys start indoor hitting this month and it’s going to drive me crazy that I won’t be able to do as much as I would like. When it comes to shoulders, I tend to remember Nomo. He had his shoulder cleaned out or something and it really took him two years until he was throwing well again. Then during his second time around with the Dodgers he was really good and then he had another shoulder procedure and he just never got it back.
Hawkeye
Your lucky you are not a woman, because it seems like that would be a killer, trying to dry, and style your hair.
My mom had that type of surgery when she was in her 70s, and she ended up, with a frozen shoulder.
So keep up the good work!
LOL. My hair is longer than 90% of women. It makes Mark’s son’s hair look short. It’s been tough trying to do all things like that left-handed.
On Drew Storen:
1. Great Guy – He’s from Indy;
2. He wants to close; and
3. His dad is a local sports/TV personality and I know Drew is going to love to pitch for the etam he grew up rooting for.
4. Unless LA wanted to WAY overpay, there was no way he was coming to LA.
5. With every passing day, it becomes more likely Jo Blanton will be back.
Mark
Thanks!
Storen only signed for three million dollars, won’t Blanton get more then that?
Difference between Ryu and those other two is that Ryu has already given the Dodgers two good seasons for less money.
I don’t think I’ve heard anyone say anything but the same thing you did Mark and that is we expect nothing from any of the old, tired, broken down arms FAZ has stacked up around here. I didn’t expect much from any of them from the beginning and we got plenty of that, so, why not expect the same? That way we won’t be disappointed if they flounder.
I still hear the word depth bring thrown around concerning the Dodgers starting pitching, then I read that every team in the league has almost the exact same number of starting pitchers expected in camp. Evidently there is no dearth of depth as all teams appear to have a plethora of pitchers. Of course, some are better than others, and it might depend on what a team expects their starters to accomplish. Looking at the stats from last year the Cubs starters were first in ERA, second in innings pitched. SF was fifth and third, Washington second and sixth, LA sixth and twenty-ninth. Our bullpen was our strength – first in ERA and first in innings pitched. It would appear we are going to attempt to do it the same way again this year.
I listen to MLB a lot and a big topic of discussion is “lack of starting pitching depth.” Most of the talk is by 8 or 9 former GM’s who talk about “the obvious lack of starting pitching”… but I guess that isn’t true.
To me, the Dodgers have a great amount of depth, but if you see the glass half full you see arms dangling by tendons. That’s a hell of a way to live… When I see Shinola, that’s what it is – some people
don’t know Shinola, I guess.
So, tell us about “Shinola” Mark. You sound like an expert in the field.
Mark’s comment about “Shinola”….very apropos
Badger’s comment about “Shinola”….very funny;
Speaking of funny, Wondering’s comment yesterday about perplexing and incompetent was hilarious.
Thanks for the light reading and humor.
The Dodgers have depth, but they have the kind of depth that’s causing them a lot uncertainty. Let’s say that JDL and Stewart would get the deal done with Minnesota. The Dodgers may do that if they knew they could count on just one of Kazmir, McCarthy, or Ryu. Kazmir doesn’t strike me as a guy who’s going to be a good teammate if he isn’t in the rotation either. Neither McCarthy or Kazmir project as bullpen pieces. So, are the Dodgers forced to send Urias back to AAA to start the season so they can showcase guys they don’t want or they going to give them away like they did Harangatang a few years back when they had too many pitchers. The Dodgers may have incredible depth or half of them with broken down bodies.
A little something to get the old guys heart’s pumping..
1941? Yoiks.
Any guy that got off on that is now in his mid 90’s.
Sorry, Badger, drugs and gerbils weren’t as popular in those days…
Wondering
How old is Richard Gere right now?
Probably as old as Badger.
You don’t like dancing girls in short skirts? Better not let Mark find out…
I liked it better than a lot of the dancing I see by entertainers today. But, 1941 is my father’s era.
Wondering
When were you in your twenties?
The sixties. But I think I was meant to be born earlier. I have always been my own person, I’ve never felt any need to be like other people, to like what they allegedly like, just to fit in. I am an outsider and I’ve never regretted it.
Badger
Were you in your twenties in the 70s?
Wondering
I know a lot of people that feel they should have grown up, in another era.
Do you think maybe people long for another era, because they romanticize that era?
That is a good attitude you have, because most young people are not strong enough, to do what you have always done.
There was no British invation, for Wondering!
MJ, I was born I ’48. I was in the Marine Corps from ’66-69, got out, went to college in Nebraska for a year, became a Nuclear Medicine Tech in LA, went back to college at age 26, got credentialed in ’79. Yes, I was in my 20’s in the 70’s. Some of them anyway. I turned 30 and graduated the same year, ’78.
Just heard an iceberg the size of Delaware is about to break off Antartica. That should be interesting.
Badger
I thought you were in your twenties, in the 70s.
Because you said, that the 70s were the best times, in your life.
I think most people think they had there best times, in there lives, when they were in there twenties.
Badger
I think those techs, are making pretty good money now
I still believe that there is a very strong possibility that Brian Dozier is the Dodger’s opening day 2B, unless Minnesota just tries to totally hold them up. The Dodgers have offered De Leon and maybe another prospect, but it’s not Alvarez, Buehler, Bellinger or Calhoun. If I were FAZ, I would give them 72 hours and move on.
My Plan B is Brandon Phillips. I think he would waive his no-trade clause to come to a team that could win it all. He’s in his contract year, so he will be highly motivated. I like that. He had reverse splits last year, but for his career he hit .282 against LHP. While not Brian Dozier, he could be a solid piece. The Reds will pay part of his salary and he would not cost a lot.
He’s been on a losing team for a while, so maybe he would be energized in his contract year. It’s worth a look.
Yeah, maybe. He sounds like another, less than, Utley/Kendrick, for $14 million. He’s 36 in June. More older? He’s a 1-1.5 WAR player that would cost money AND prospects.
Mark
Did you know that Brandon Phillips turned down a trade to the Nationals, because they wouldn’t extend his contract?
This of course was before they signed Murphy, so Phillips did them a favor.
He also just recently turned down a trade to the Braves, and he lives in Atlanta I believe.
But that isn’t a bad idea, and I don’t think he is that bad defensively, even if the defensive metrics say something else.
There is to much back and forth, with defensive metrics.
If they could get Ethier and Phillips to waive their no-trade clauses and swap bad contracts, I would go after McCutchen to play LF.
I don’t think Ethier would want to go to Cincy but he might be persuaded to go to Phoenix or Colorado. Who do they have that they would possibly trade? If you say Nolan Arenado, I’ll call you the name of another poster here who proposes unrealistic trades.
I don’t think Ethier would want to go either, but if he’s told that Toles and Thompson are the Left Fielders then who knows considering it is a contract year.
Art, you are getting closer and closer to declaring war.
On Dozier: How about De Leon and one of our surplus starting pitchers, with us picking up some of the contract? McCarthy? Kazmir? That would solve a couple of problems.
It would for us. Wood might be interesting for them, but honestly they’re planning for 2019 and beyond so the only way they take Kazmir and McCarthy is if we up the quality of prospects.
Bobbie 17
I hope we don’t trade JDL for Dozier, but it would be nice to get rid of one of those two pitchers.
But even in the worse year for starting pitching, those two are still on the team.
The opt out was a reach and a half, for all the people, who thought it was a smart deal, at the time.
And most here, were not to impressed.
Or Wood? If we toss in Wood, I think the Twins would bite.
Forget the Twins, I want to do the deal with Milwaukee, Braun and Villiers. Solves two of our problems quite well. Give them Puig, Kazmir, and a prospect or two… Kazmir and Braun cancel each other out, moneywise.
Do you mean Villar?
They have no interest in trading him. Just as well to say “I want to do the deal with Houston for Altuve.”
It does seem, however, that the Twins are receptive to trade Dozier.
I’m sure the Dodgers would have made an offer if Villar was available.
Art, you do realize that the trade proposals I have made that were intended to humor me during the early and slow part of the Hot Stove League were more realistic that the one you are now putting forth in earnest.
Bum
You are right.
Wasn’t it Puig, McCarthy, and a prospect, at the trade deadline?
That is not even close to being true.
Wondering
You had almost the exact same players, that were offered to the Brewers, at the trade deadline.
Remember the teams couldn’t agree about the prospects, and they ran out of time.
The only difference in your trade, is that you put in Kazmir, instead of McCarthy.
So your trade wasn’t out there, like Bum said.
MJ, you forgot that Art also wanted Villar aka Villiers
Wondering
I don’t want to deal with the Twins
They want to much, because Dozier is the only piece they have.
I guess I did.
By Villiers I assume you mean Jonathan Villar, a versatile 25 year old team controlled infielder coming off a 3.9 WAR year and the question begs – why would Milwaukee trade this asset and if they did, what would they want for him? I’m all for it, but he had more value than Grandal or Pederson, and if we were to trade them, what would we ask in return?
OK, torch the idea. I quit, get yourself a new GM…. etc., etc.
Badger:
Good question. What do YOU think they would ask in return for Villar? Personally everyone here knows I’d love to have Villar AND Braun.
As far as trading Grandal, I vote NO. Would Barnes now be the starting catcher(when he really hasn’t shown anything yet) and who would be his backup? Smith? Farmer? Keibert Ruiz?
The Brewers are way too righthanded in their lineup and want to rid themselves of Braun’s contract. That’s two of their top objectives.
With all the LHH we have on the club and down on the farm plus the fact that 20 of our top 30 specs are either OF or P, certainly both clubs have some common ground.
We have to give up quality to get quality in return and while digging into our farm would hurt us, it certainly wouldn’t cripple us to any extent. Why not revisit last years almost trade at the deadline and go from there.
I really don’t believe money is an issue for us since we’ve already laid out $192MM for Kenley, Turner and Hill.
Richie
They just added another back up catcher, and gave him an invite, to spring training.
He is on the minor league list, with Culberson.
MJ:
Yes I saw that. His name is Bobby Wilson soon to be 34yo. they signed him to a $1MM contract. He’s been around awhile.
Best framer in 2014 in the minor leagues, and he hit lefties last year.
Sufferring succotash, I just realized it’s Russian Christmas, end of the Twelve Days of Christmas. Merry Christmas again and all that rot…
Wondering
Are you working for Trump, with that Russian reference?
No on Trump, he’s a politician, I hate them all. Russian Christmas has existed much longer than Trump or even Russia for that matter. It is the date Eastern Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas. the religion began in Egypt about 2000 years ago, but there are still many worshippers around the world.
Trump has taken a liking to Russia lately, so maybe he is celebrating.
Are you politicizing everything Russian? You won’t drink a Black Russian or put Russian dressing on your salad? Trump, like Obama, Bush, Clinton and others will think himself King for awhile and then fade into obscurity, just another failed leader.
If Dozier comes to LA, I will immediately change his moniker to “Bull.”
Wondering
I was just teasing, about a current event in the news.
Sorry
Wondering
I was just teasing about a current event in the news.
Sorry
Sickels has his analysis of the Dodgers system up.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/1/6/14193446/los-angeles-dodgers-top-20-prospects-for-2017
He’s more bullish on JDL, Ruiz and Peters than others I’ve read. He also expresses skeptism on where Calhoun can play in the NL.
I quite respect Sickels.
Can someone link me to the ‘BR’ minor league report from earlier in the week? Who is BR?
Bluto
That is Bleacher Report.
Where is their minor league report??!!?!?
They don’t appear to have one. Here is the BR site: http://bleacherreport.com/mlb
Wondering
Do you use message or mail, to send something here?
And what is the link for here?
Bluto
Use Wondering’s link, and there is a bunch of different articles.
The minor league report in BR, is the link you just posted.
The other article is called Farm System Ratings.
MJ, I don’t understand the question.
Here is Wison the catcher you were talking about
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/dodgers-sign-bobby-wilson-minors.html?fv-home=true&post-id=81975
Thanks Watford!
MJ, using a computer to post here is totally different from what you do on your phone. Here’s one aspect: I use Chrome browser, I can have a bunch of tabs opened at one time, different websites on each tab. I can instantly read something on this site, jump over to MLBTR to see if there is any news, or Google search for any information I need. As much as you enjoy posting here, I hardily recommend getting a computer. It will not only make it easy to post here but also allow you to post on other web sites much easier than it now is for you to switch sites.
Wondering
I can switch sites easily too.
I think I might have to ask Badger sometime, because he has an iPad.
I do use google to look up things.
And there is this little box at the bottom with an arrow through it, and that allows you to transfer stuff, with a message, or through the mail, and put stuff, on your reading list, and a lot more stuff.
Thanks anyways, I do appreciate your response!
Me and my Dog, are off to get my meds.
MJ, do you want to copy a url from your phone and paste it in a comment?
Bum
Not right now, but the next time I might try it.
I don’t know it, with those terms.
I just know that that little box, with an arrow in it, allows you to post messages at sites.
I don’t even know, if I would use mail, or message to move something here, or to other sites.
I guess on my history list, they have those links, but I don’t know where else you get them.
I tried Ladodgerreport. Com once, and that didn’t work.
I do
use google, or my history, to get around.
Bum
Yes but not right now, but if you think about it, I would love to know how.
Wondering
I am saving money right now, so I am trying to keep my spending down.
It’s time to liven this place up. Quit acting so old. Let’s gooooooo…..
Richie, what would I ask for a 25 year old coming off a near 4 WAR year?
If only prospects, 2 that are Major League or near Major League ready with a FV of 50 or better. Looking at our system …… I’d take Calhoun and Verdugo. Hey, my guy stole 62 bases and scored 92 runs. He also hit 19 home runs. Come to think of it, I’ll need an arm with those two prospects. Throw in Sheffield.
Nobody cares about that iceberg?
MJ, after I got out of the Corps I figured I was on borrowed time so I had a lot of fun. The 70’s was the decade for that. I was chief tech at Beverly Hills Drs, and Beverly Glen Hospitals. Great job. The parties up there were fantastic. But the job was depressing. So, I went back to school. That was a great time too. I f’d it up when I married a 22 year spoiled brat from La Cañada. In my defense she was a beauty and was on the college gymnastics team. I should have known better. It all went downhill after that. In many ways I’m still paying for that mistake.
And Richie, I’m not for trading Grandal, unless we had a better option for catcher, which we don’t. I was merely pointing out Villar had a better year. A much better year. Villar is an everyday player at a position of need. You want to take a guy like that, a team controlled athlete with both speed and pop, you’re gonna pay. I might even ask you to pay a Timmons-like price – De Leon, Sheffield, De Jong, Verdugo, and Calhoun. You want Braun AND Villar? Seager and Urias.
Badger
After Nam you deserved to have some fun!
You were probably not ready to get married at that point.
Badger, sounds great to me pal.
Only regret the things you didn’t do.
W, I didn’t sign with the Dodgers and I turned down UCLA to join the Marines and fight the communist menace. That decision, made by an 18 year old, was worse than marrying a spoiled rich kid. Believe it or not, it’s actually close.
All things happen for a reason, so I know regret is a waste of time. Still, we all look back and reflect on decisions. It’s part of being human.
You drank LBJ’s koolade!!! Buy any bridges in Brooklyn?
Yes. Yes I did. At 18 I was not the sharpest tack in the box. I learned how to think AFTER the Marine Corps. I did however learn very quickly the Vietnam War was a lie. They’ve all been lies since WWII. There are some who believe that one was born of a lie, but I don’t know about that. I do know about all of them since then. Ike warned us. We didn’t listen. We aren’t listening still.
Badger
Don’t feel bad about that.
My brother is a year younger then you, and he joined because his draft number was coming up.
I think my dad told him to do that, so he might get a better job to do.
He joined the army though.
When you join the Marines, that is even harder, isn’t it?
They are on the front lines.
Watford
Only regret the things you didn’t do!
I love that!
Everyone who loves sport dreams of the moment they get the chance to show the world what they can do.
My moment came in front of 20,000 people on a cold November evening about 10 years ago.
I’m the one on the back right.
http://youtu.be/owr5iV8pn6c
Ouch!
Watford
That reminds me of the ambulance drivers, at my accident.
They had me on the board, in the ambulance and they backed the ambulance into something, trying to leave to the hospital.
And that jarred my back and neck even more.
I happened to marry a psycho bitch from hell who damn near cost me my life. Since that ordeal concluded 22 years ago, life gets better by the minute. I never have a bad day.
When someone asks me how I am doing, the answer always is :NEVER BETTER!
I mean that!
Don’t dwell on past history. History is like gravity – you need to know about it, but it holds you down.
So….. you’ve decided to abandon the Mountainmover book/movie project?
Probably a good idea. It’s been 20 years in the making.
There are Truth In Advertising Laws
Cryptic drivel!
I don’t know why you would think that. I have never indicated any such thing… other than it was shelved for 6 years.
Why would we think that? You just said to not dwell on the past, it holds you down. In fact your exact words were “don’t dwell on past history” followed by a Goo Goo Dolls quote – or was it Cryptic Drivel – great name for a band (you really should stop quoting others as if it’s your own words, quotation marks are enough) so why wouldn’t we assume the story about how you were framed would be left where it belongs – in the past?
We still get signed copies, right? And I still want to play a part in the movie. I’m thinking one of the PhD’s that testified. I’ve got an Honorary PhD myself you know, it’s in Epistemological Philosophy. I sh*t you not. And I was in sales for years so I’ve got acting experience.
On the issue of Ryu, I disagree with those who project a 33% recovery rate for labral tears. It is much lower than that.
I will post one link here and another in another post so that I don’t get “moderated”.
http://gargoyle.flagler.edu/2015/05/the-career-ender-for-baseball-players-labrum-tears-still-one-of-most-debilitating/
The fact is that that depending on whom you believe, the chances of recovery are between 3 and 8%.
With Ryu having had both labral surgery and elbow surgery, the chances of him pitching well ever again are not good.
Here is another link:
http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2004/05/labrum_it_nearly_killed_him.html
Dang. Good info rick. I do remember reading somewhere labrum tears were career enders, but I had no idea the numbers were that bad. I don’t expect Ryu back, and I have little expectations for Kazmir and McCarthy. I think they will pitch, but not pitch well nor for an entire season. For me, a long list of names isn’t a sign of depth.
Rick
What did Orel have wrong with his shoulder?
He had a labral tear too but didn’t have a normal labral tear procedure. Here is from an interview with Orel in 2014:
“It wasn’t an elbow that Jobe fixed for Orel Hershiser, but rather his shoulder. But it was still a rare procedure, especially in 1990.
“The shoulder surgery he did on me was kind of revolutionary also,” Hershiser said. “At the time he cut on me he had done maybe 200 of them but never did it on somebody who had to throw professionally.”
Hershiser had anterior labrum reconstruction surgery after his shoulder was, as he described it, “pounded veal.” Through research, and studying an earlier surgery on teammate Alejandro Pena, Jobe devised a plan to rebuild Hershiser’s shoulder.
Jobe caused bleeding around the shoulder joint, then essentially created a new anterior ligament out of the scar tissue. Part of the intense process involved Hershiser needing to grind his shoulder against the scar five times a day, often with tears in his eyes from the pain.”
This is what is commonly referred to as microfracture surgery.
http://www.truebluela.com/2014/3/7/5482396/frank-jobe-orel-hershiser-stan-conte
Thanks Rick!
I have this thing about putting things into the ether about things going well or declaring that things are going poorly. The former can change in a heartbeat and the latter would seem to attract those that would want to kick you while you are down.
I’ve never seen you down Bum. I like what you throw against the wall. It often falls off the wall, but I think its interesting. Keep it coming.
Dodgers interested in Neftali Perez to be a back of the pen type.
Not horrible, although I really would like us to give Santiago Casilla a shot. I know he was horrible as the giants closer, but his stuff is great. Probably needs a change of scenery and less pressure than the 9th
Neftali Perez could be extremely good. He was throwing 98+ at the end of last season after coming back from TJ two years earlier. He could be a stud set-up guy!
Bobby
Believe it or not, I was thinking the same thing, about Casillia, and for the same reason.
Wouldn’t that be great, having him setting up for us, especially against the Giants?
I bet he would be cheap, and anxious to prove the Giants wrong.
And I thought Perez always pitched pretty good against us, and he has pretty good stuff.
Will Carroll’s article is over ten years old. Advances have been made. Will Carroll lives near where I do and frequents local sports talk radio. He has talked recently about advances in surgical techniques. Here’s the bad news: If the labrum needs to be re-attached to the bone, you are going to have a low chance or recovery. Additionally, if it involves the rotator cuff, your odds are also long. In Ryu’s case, the labrum did not need to be re-attached, the rotator cuff was not damaged and they said there was little damage to Ryu’s labrum.
Now, I am not saying he will come back, but he doesn’t have the classic situation where you don’t – he is on the positive side in my opinion.
I’ve read nothing about this. Where is your source? What I read said it was a labrum tear and he would be ready to pitch in Spring of ’16. Obviously that didn’t happen. Now we are to believe that it’s minor?
http://www.truebluela.com/2015/5/21/8638891/hyun-jin-ryu-surgery-labrum-repair-dodgers
Dylan Hernandez @dylanohernandez
Relatively little damage to Ryu’s labrum.
11:03 AM · May 21, 2015
Dylan Hernandez is the medical source for a conclusion?
This was in May of ’15. He was supposed to be ready in Spring of ’16. Pitchers and catchers report next month. Has he picked up a ball yet?
Funny. There were multiple reports back then saying as far a labrum tears/fraying goes, his was on the minimal side.
I find Bleacher Report to be, quite possibly, the worst site I’ve ever gone to.
Can someone smarter than I please tell me how to find this minor league ranking section? I honestly can not find just it, but also anything else that isn’t just sourced from elsewhere.
Bluto
You have to read every little thing in there usually.
But I just was over there, and the article is called, Farm System Ratings, the Dodgers join the top five.
You are looking at the Dodgers Bleacher Report right?
MJ,
I did see that, but the writer is a nobody, not even an established baseball beat guy.
I thought it was a more comprehensive analysis.
Bluto
Did you notice that the only prospects they said was ready for 2017, was Calhoun, and Stewart who was already up?
And they said that Calhoun’s bat, plays at any position.
Didn’t notice that, and I don’t think there’s close to room on the 40 for anyone. They don’t even have room at present for Jansen and there are players still to come back from the 60, I believe.
Rhame, who wasn’t listed, is considered a viable bullpen option for this season, beyond that which prospect would the team want to start “the clock” on?
OK, after further review, let’s get Dozier and Braun (Villar ain’t coming as much as we would love to have him). Here’s the plan:
1. Tell Andre Ethier he is no longer in the Dodgers plans – that Thompson and Toles (as in T-N-T, that’s dynamite), will platoon, and if Andre wants to play and earn a new deal, he will have to consent to a trade. CHECK
2. Trade Calhoun, De Jong and De Leon for Dozier.
3. Trade Puig, Ethier Lux and Stewart (Lux and Stewart are from that neck of the woods) for Braun. The Dodgers get 1 year of salary relief to fit Braun in. Ethier can be flipped at the trade deadline if necessary. He can play 1B as Milwaukee let Carter walk.
This lineup makes me foam at the mouth:
1. Toles/Thompson RF
2. Seager SS
3. Braun LF
4. Dozier 2B
5. Turner 3B
6. Gonzo 1B
7. Grandal C
8. Pederson CF
All 8 positions are capable of hitting 30 bombs!
Print the tickets!
Sounds easy enough.
Won’t happen.
I do like the Feliz idea. Don’t know Neftali Perez.
I don’t trade Lux. We’ll need a SS when Seager moves to third.
Badger is right it is Felix.
Drop Dozier behind A-gone and I like the lineup. Unlikely but a nice lineup.
Hawkeye
I agree with that move.
Dozier isn’t a better hitter, then Turner, and Agone.
Maybe somewhere else, against lefties.
Mark
That is to much for Braun.
Stewart is a keeper!
I don’t care, where he is from.
His dad is a major league scout.
Send them McCarthy, because they were willing to take him last year.
We don’t know that.
Yeah, I wrote “Perez” – Brain dead!
Mark
So did I and Bobby, so don’t feel bad!
Dozier isn’t a better hitter, then Turner, and Agone.
Oh yeah?
Let’s look at their stats last year in the CLEANUP SPOT:
Gonzo – .287 BA/.793 OPS
Turner – .288/.883 OPS
Dozier – .295 BA/.955 OPS
I know who I would rather have hitting cleanup!
A-Gon is a #6 hitter and that’s OK, IF we have someone better hitting ahead of him.
Brian Dozier is an impact player!
He only hit cleanup in 35 games. Probably against LH pitchers. He’s a career .246 hitter. Look at AGon and Turner’s career stats and compare them to Dozier. To say that Dozier isn’t a better hitter than Turner or AGon is accurate.
Badger
Really good point about hitting fourth, against lefties only.
Freaking Chuck Pagano is coming back!
Excuse me while I cut my wrists!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mark
Is that that scout from the Bluejays?
I thought you never have a bad day Mark. Cut your wrists? Well, OK. Put a towel down first.
Colts Coach!
Oh
It’s the Colts. I wish Andrew Luck well, but, it’s the Colts. Tell me who the Rams are going to hire.
Grigson should be the first one shown the door. Trent Richardson, Bjorn Werner, Landry, Johnson, Jones, etc. I could go on and on about his bad trades and signings. I will say that the o-line is finally going in the right direction if they can keep them healthy. The boy wonder needs to learn not to hold the ball too long. He shouldn’t be exempt from criticism.
If you’re going to use last year only in gauging what Dozier will do again this coming year, then don’t let him hit the first two months of the season, stick him at the bottom of the order in May and bat him 4th and 5th all summer, depending on who is on the mound.
He also had a mediocre OBP, but outstanding OPS leading off.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=doziebr01&year=2016&t=b
That being said, the first step in determining where he should hit in a lineup is determining what team he plays for. If the Twins value young starting pitching, then JDL should be enough. If they decide it isn’t enough, then he immediately becomes my pick for #5 in our rotation.
Just another day in Paradise… I would hope this is the day we get closure on the Dozier situation but nothing is guaranteed. I am more and more inclined to let the frigging FO manage the frigging team, I monitor the frigging games on Game Day, and in between, I don’t think about the frigging Dodgers… Or anything else beyond my control. That don’t leave much for me to worry about and that’s good.
I am torn between keeping the Dodgers I know and have been home grown, trying to get the team younger, and adding a couple of big bats borrowed from other teams.
Dozier would add the most to the success of the Dodgers in 2017 and 2018. I accept that. I guess my dislike for getting Dozier has to do with the question of how many more prospects beyond what it would take to get Dozier would it take to get a younger longer term player.
If it takes De Leon, Stewart, Calhoun, and De Jong to get Dozier could those players plus Verdugo, and Lux get Dansby Swanson from the Braves? The Braves seem to be after Dozier and get him with the first 4 of those Dodger players and still have Verdugo and Lux left over.
I would love to keep Stewart so I would rather sub a player for him in that trade. Swanson could eventually switch to short when Seager switches to third.
Bottom line for me is that if the Dodgers are going to give up 4 players for 2 years of Dozier, why not give up 6 players for a solid young player that will be with the Dodgers for years. There are other young infielders besides Swanson that the Dodgers could go after instead of Swanson.
Bum
I just don’t think Dozier is going to help us, get to the World Series.
And if JDL ins up just being a viable major league starting pitcher, he will give us much more then Dozier will, in two years.
And that is asumming that Dozier produces, in that two years.
I rather keep JDL.
I was looking at Doziers stats last year, after Mark insistented that he is a good fourth hitter.
I noticed he hit most of his HRs last year, hitting first.
And if he hit most of his HRs hitting first, he didn’t hit them with players on base, so most of his HRs, were solo HRs.
And pitchers pitch hitters much differently when people are not on base, as compared to when people are on base.
Dozier did have a 130 at bats batting fourth, and he did hit well, but I bet his manager moved him to fourth, when he was so hot.
And as we know, most of the time, Dozier won’t be hot!
It is more likely he will have long periods, where he won’t hit to well, and won’t be hot.
And that was the first time in his career that he was able to hit above 250, and hit so many HRs.
The odds are that he won’t have another year like that, especially hitting in Dodger stadium, and having to hit in a pennant race, under the big lights, in LA.
And that is why most places, are predicting his numbers will go down.
Is two years of Dozier, worth are number one pitching prospect, and some of our other young prospects?
In a word, NO. I am really impressed with your work in researching things like that and your all around knowledge of baseball. And on a cell phone, to boot! Muy bueno.
Thank you Mr. Wondering!
I am impressed with your strength, to be your own person.
Bum
That is a really good idea, but we have to be right about that young prospect.
And actually, the prospect should be a little less, since they might turn into a pumpkin.
But it will have to be less of a prospect, because Swanson means to much to the Braves.
He is a home town boy, for there new stadium.
I don’t buy for a second that the Braves are going hard after Dozier. Certainly not hard enough to outbid the Dodgers. Swanson isn’t going to be traded nor should the Dodgers give up 6 players for Swanson.
I would wait until July before trading for an outfielder such as Braun. By then the Dodgers will know who is healthy and who is not, who has trade value and who does not. Hopefully salary exchanges can be better made in July.
Ethier, Gonzales, McCarthy, and Kazmir might be among the salaries that can be moved if Bellinger, Thompson, Toles, Puig, Wood, Stewart, De Leon, Urias look like they can take over for the vets.
Bum
Bellinger is not replacing Agone next year.
His won’t be coming up until the rosters expand in Sept, because he isn’t ready.
The only way Bellinger comes up early and replaces Agone, is if Agone goes on the DL for a long time, and even then, they still might keep him in AAA.
Even when Rollins was hitting only in the low 200s most of the year, they still didn’t bring Corey up, until Rollins hurt his hand in Sept.
And if any AAA player was ready for the majors, it was Corey.
The only way that will happen, is if we are not in a pennant race, in 2018.
Your mind works in curious ways Bum. You are certainly not short on creativity. I don’t know why the Braves would choose to trade a Top 5 MLB shortstop prospect. That would be like us trading Seager a few years ago. You only move a prospect like that for a bonafide star – like Chris Sale. That said, make it happen.
I have a post frim 4:47 that shows is “awaiting moderation”. I am wondering why that happens, and why it takes hours to be moderated.
Badger, I like to shoot high and then adjust from there. The point I was trying to make was that four players for Dozier is a lot and the incremental difference of adding two more makes the leap smaller to get someone hopefully almost as good as Swanson.
The software here is very unstable, look for it to go out completely sometime soon. Just as with most companies, they will keep loading onto their servers, even after they start having glitches, until they fail completely before they upgrade. This is Word Press I speak of, not LADodgerReport, who merely subscribe to their service and use their software.
The team was only 2 games from the World Series. We most likely just need a small tweak here and there. These block buster trade scenarios are the moves of a team that just plain don’t have a chance.
Ryu will never be a factor again, he just looks so happy on the sidelines, why spoil it? Maybe he’ll get a bubble gum named after him in Korea. Ethier will have an impact, and he’ll refuse a trade to anywhere except Arizona.
I say we keep the kids and maybe trade a surplus outfielder and other non-factors including roster pitchers and minor leaguers that will never play in LA. for a second baseman. I do not like the idea of trading these names (JDL, Calhoun, Stewart ,etc.) for a 2 year rental.
And finally, Toles looks and hits like a lead-off hitter.
Good Morning
Ray
The blind does see!
I agree keep our young prospects, because Dozier won’t be the game changer, like some think.
He is not a consistent hitter, he gets hot much like Grandal gets hot.
Dozier did have a career year last year, but it is more likely, he will regress, even if a stays with the Twins, in the American League.
Let alone, having to come to a new league with new pitchers, and hitting in a pennant race, under the big lights in LA.
Ray
That is the point with Toles, he hits, and he is also brings speed to the team, that has been missing.
I hope those 100 plus at bats, are really what type of hitter, Toles really is.
Because we need a bat like that in our line up, to lengthen it even more, and make it much more productive, offensively.
I just felt like I had to come out and say something.
Read enough of this crap about gutting our farm system.
We haven’t had a good farm system in decades. Maybe we forgot how to handle it. It’s a kids game… Kids for kids. Plug in a Baker or Smith but don’t sell the farm
Ray
I must admit I was suprised that JDL was on the block, after Mark said that they won’t be trading our top young prospects, for the last three years.
Mark doesn’t own the team and it is not likely that he has any friends in high places who would know more than what is released in publicity.
He has no friends, he has sources.
Wait, that didn’t sound right.
Mark has friends and sources, but his sources aren’t his friends…… no, that doesn’t sound right either.
His friends aren’t his sources, so … they don’t talk to him…. about the Dodgers anyway because he lives in Indiana …..
Never mind. Mark isn’t the owner. And neither are his sources. I think that is safe to say.
1. I can confirm that I do not own the team;
2. I can confirm that I do not have any “friends in high places”;
3. I can neither confirm or deny that I have friends who know more than what is released publically, but 2 out of 3 is impressive.
Mark
Didn’t MeatLoaf sing that?
You want to bring a kid up? Trade the player he displaces along with other surplus if you need something you don’t have.
You have to factor in team chemistry. Let these young guys feel secure, like they belong, like they’re essential to the teams success.
Ray
Bum feels the same way as you, about keeping the youngsters together.
I won’t complain about De Leon being traded for Dozier but I would question if it was a good move to add other players unless they are of the more obscure type.
There are teams with depleted farm systems that might be willing to trade quantity for quality. But the quality I prefer is young controllable quality.
Based on the first 100 at bats Puig was Mike Trout and Grandal was Johnny Bench. I like Toles, but if he earns the leadoff spot I expect the league to have a book on him by mid May.
I like what Ray has to say about keeping the youngsters. I’ve said I’m ok with using De Leon for Dozier as it would definitely help. But I’m more concerned about starting pitching and prefer keeping JDL just in case. We have several options for second base, and to date no one has been able to explain why we let Gordon go, and received Hernandez in exchange. I assumed he was to play second base. Then Peraza. Then Johnson. Then Taylor. Calhoun. Segedin? Culberson? Now maybe Dozier? Getting Dizzier on option-go-round.
Badger
I was going to say that we once had to many second basemen, but you beat me to the punch.
Well said. It sounds like Wondering the dizzying merry-go-round as well.
Be still my heart……the Dodgers signed…..wait for it……..Bobby Wilson!!!! Problem against lefty’s solved! …….NOT!!!! Some real news would be nice for a change like a trade or something substantial. But that is not the new Dodger way. We will be kept waiting until either A. Minnesota realizes they are not getting much more from the Dodgers and certainly not Buhler or Alvarez, and B. Faz wakes up from the long winter nap. On the question at hand, I do not think Ryu will come back, even though I would love to see the guy pitch again.
Michael
I guess you were not impressed with him being the top framer in AAA, in 2014.
No, I guess I was not. I understand it is strictly a depth signing and insurance in case Grandal breaks down again. It is the kind of signing I have come to expect from this bunch. But a couple of relievers for depth would be better…..
Two years ago the Dodgers had Pederson, Seager, Urias and De Leon as their TOP Prospects. It really dropped off after that, which is why they were loathe to trade any of them. In the two subsequent years, the depth of the farm system will now allow them to trade some. JDL is the highest rated, most MLB ready prospect.
The Dodgers also have Urias, Stewart, Stripling, Wood and others who are close to ready. Buehler may be the best of the bunch now. Alvarez is a couple of years away, so is Sheffield and others. It’s hard to introduce more than 1 rookie starter into the rotation a year, so JDL is the most expendable.
I think many of you undervalue Dozier and overvalue players like Gonzo. I am not a big fantasy baseball guy, but the stats they generate to track that are very real. Here is ESPN’s top fantasy rankings:
1. Mike Trout LAA
2. Jose Altuve HOU
3. Mookie Betts BOS
4. Kris Bryant CHC
5. Paul Goldschmidt ARI
6. Nolan Arenado COL
7. Manny Machado BAL
8. Anthony Rizzo CHC
9. Josh Donaldson TOR
10. Bryce Harper WAS
Clayton Kershaw is the first Dodger at #11. Seager is #19, Jansen is #69, A-Gon is #127 and Turner is #131 (shockingly), Grandal is #162, Pederson is #163, Puig is #213.
Brian Dozier is #27, just ahead of Daniel Murphy, Edwin Encarnacion, Ryan Braun, Giancarlo Stanton and Cespedes.
Now, I realize that these are just projections, not the Holy Grail, but it gives you a starting point on value. Based upon projections, Dozier would hit 4th and be a BIG IMPACT BAT for the Dodgers, This guy is no chump, He works at getting better every year and he has!
Until he can’t, he’s already 29. That is about the age when you realize the younger guys are quicker. Both hands and feet.
And Agone the old veteran, didn’t have a problem getting a hit, off 100 mile plus Chapman, when a hit was needed.
Mark
Doziers ranking is based on mostly, a one season, career year.
And OPS is a good measure for most players, but there are certain players, that have high OPS’S, but they are not better hitters, then most good all around hitters.
And Dozier is one of those type of hitters.
And Dozier isn’t better hitter, then most of the players you listed below him.
I could say Murphy was a fluke, but he hit some of the best pitchers in baseball hard, in the prior post season, before this last good year.
Stanton has not been able to stay on the field, so he is a question in my mind, but he has the most power, in all of baseball.
And the other three players, have proved they can hit consistently, because they do it year after year.
Stanton projects at 4.7 WAR. Dozier at 3.1. There isn’t a GM or fantasy player anywhere that would take Dozier over Stanton.
I wonder if any GM’s would take JDL over Dozier straight up?
Depends on their needs I would guess.
I should have asked, How Many?
I’m thinking most GM’s would take the safe pick. Many believe Dozier is not likely to repeat his numbers from last year, but he is proven. De Leon is not. Frankly if I’m Minnesota I wouldn’t do straight up. I keep his projected 3 WAR and easy contract. Bummer for them no one else appears interested.
What are their salaries? I’m onboard giving up JDL and De Jong plus some fillers for Dozier. I prefer Kinsler, but Dozier is an upgrade. So long JDL hello Otani.
Mark
Without last year, Dozier could be ranked right where Joc and Grandal are.
And Joc is only going into his third year, and learning how to hit.
And Grandal is a catcher, that has a lot more to do, then just hit.
I think Bum guessed right!
They are rankings generated from Saber Numbers that not all of us believe in. The numbers mean something but they shouldn’t overrule your common sense, what your eyes and your memory tells you. They guy may not get as many hits as someone else but maybe he gets his hit when the runners are on or the game hangs in the balance. That is what makes a player a fan favorite, satisfies one a bit more than someone with better numbers. Satisfaction is what it’s all about…
Turner seems to always get the hit the Dodgers need especially with runners on base. That is the reason I would put Turner higher in the lineup than Dozier.
That said, Dozier could make the lineup interesting as Turner might then be able to lead off.
That is very interesting Mark.
That’s some pretty good company he’s keeping there.
Not sure what the Royals are thinking –
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/royals-sign-chris-withrow-al-alburquerque-brandon-league-to-minor-league-deals.html
Looks like KC is doing a low level imitation of our FO
Like my lawyer used to say, Keep throwing it, see what sticks
Watford
At least they are only giving out minor league deals, instead of a three year contacts.
I don’t think any of the three stooges Wilson, Perez, and League , were in Major League Baseball, last year.
You would be right. Not sure if any were even in the minors. All 3 last pitched in the bigs in 2014…..League and Perez pitched in the minors in 2015. League for LA at AAA and Perez for Mil at AAA
Kind of like Toles’ situation last year.
I never read the fantasy ratings because that is all they are……dreams of what they think might happen. Since most MLB players rarely have back to back seasons that are essentially the same, I put little stock in them. There are players you can be pretty sure they will produce, but nailing the numbers, no way.
Brian Dozier has gotten better every year. I’m not saying he’s the end-all-be-all, but he plays a position where his power is a plus.
Actually MJ, Dozier was ranked #36 in 2016, so that comparison will not even come close.
They are not fantasy numbers – they are REAL numbers for people in fantasy leagues. Look at the TOP 20 players and see if you disagree. They are all numbers, but the game is played by humans. However, every baseball fan looks at the numbers… unless the numbers don’t support their narrative…
Mark, I understand you. Fantasy projections are interesting and usable. There is some modeling involved and modeling is used extensively just about everywhere. Throwing dirt on fantasy projections or zips, steamer, etc reflects a lack of knowledge. Projections are not guarantees. Ask any actuary.
I read his stat sheet a few times and it’s my opinion he did not improve every year. He slipped in ’15. He could easily go back to that level – 2.4 WAR.
Bum
It isn’t a lack of knowledge!
Dozier’s 2015 stats, are almost a mirror of Grandal’s stats, from this last year.
Except that Dozier struck out, almost thirty more times, then Grandal did, this last year.
Take a look at Dozier’s 2015 stats, and tell me, those stats, are not like Grandal’s stats, from this last year.
All true and worrisome MJ. Dozier is not the type of player you most like due to all his K’s but he still projects to be a good #5 hitter on a team like the Dodgers.
Mark
In 2015, Dozier hit 236, hit 28 HRs, and struck out 148 times.
That looks much like Grandal’s stats, from this year, and I don’t think Grandal struck out 148 times!
This is what is wrong with OPS!
Steve Geltz???
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/dodgers-sign-steve-geltz-to-minor-league-deal.html?fv-home=true&post-id=82073
former Ray ..2-9 in 4 seasons.. era around 4.5 or so………Friedman got this guy from the Angels in 2013.
Try this MJ. It’s easier on an android.
How to copy a url on an iphone.
Drag the top bar down so to see the address and search boxes.
Tap once in the address box, ideally just to the right of the last letter of the URL. It’ll give you the chance to enter a new URL, but that’s not what we want.
Instead, double-tap on the URL, again ideally to the right of the last character if possible. It’ll select what it thinks is a word, almost always a subset of the URL itself.
Drag on the lower blue dot to make sure that you’ve highlighted the URL all the way to the end, then tap and drag the upper blue dot back to the left until you can see the “http:” prefix of the URL.
Click on “Copy”.
You can paste it anywhere you can enter text.
Double tap in the message field.
Single tap on “Paste”.
The URL will be in the copy and paste buffer until you replace it with something else.
Thanks Bum!
No new post in 4 hours, has the board died?
we’re waiting for Brian Dozier
Forget Dozehead and keep JDL and everybody else. Now let’s play ball.
If you have been here for any time at all, you know that I never really wanted to trade prospects … until recently. But, there comes a time when you keep building the farm, but also trade some prospects. I think that time is now.
Here’s my rationale: We should have good pitching next year due to our depth. We lost Holmes, Cotton and Montas (I was listening to MLB today and they said no one had made it back big from thoracic outlet surgery – is that true?) and don’t miss them. 2017 could be a year we catch lightning in a bottle. Pederson, Seager, Grandal, Barnes, Thompson, Toles and others should be a year better. Some may breakthrough but I’ll settle for incremental improvement.
Gonzo is a year older – we can’t expect him to be more than a #5 or #6 hitter – maybe he will defy father time, but the odds aren’t on his side. In 2011, he OPS’ed .957. Since then, the best he has done is .830. He was .784 last year. Face it, he’s in huge decline, but he’s a Gold Glover and solid teammate – we just need more players around him. He’s not tradable, so he has to play.
The fact is, the Dodger system is so deep that we can trade Calhoun, JDL, De Jong, Verdugo, Puig and others and not miss a beat if we were to get Braun and Dozier. Braun could hit 3rd, but he’s a good baserunner – what if you led him off?
Think about this:
1. Braun LF
2. Seager SS
3. Turner 3B
4. Dozier 2B
5. Gonzo 1B
6. Grandal C
7. Pederson CF
8. Toles/Thompson RF
That’s a scary lineup. Plus, Dozier will be better surrounded by better hitters. Just trying to think outside the box.
Mark
Dozier just scares me!
Does that sound familar?
He isn’t the hitter Braun is, and I am afraid he won’t be able to hit in a new league, with new pitchers, especially in the first year.
Take that in consideration, and the fact he will be expected to hit on a team in the pennant race, in a big city like LA.
He already has trouble hitting consistently, in Minnesota.
He is a very streaky right handed pull hitter, that most shifts will stop.
I just feel he is a very risky player, to give away a top pitching prospect for.
27 of his forty HRs, came when he was hitting first, in the line up.
How many cheap fastballs, did he get right down the middle of the plate, by a pitcher, just trying to get ahead on the count?
And if we get Braun, I think that will be enough.
I wouldn’t, but that’s just me. With the kids we have there’s a chance to put together a dynasty of controlled ball players. Why pay more when it’s already in the farm. Give the young guys a chance to excel and they will. Or not. We could pay too much for the Dozer and he could just get injured or have a crap year. Or not. I like the cheaper way. Risk in both. Less $ risk in the cheaper to keep her method. It’s why I’m still happily married after 33 years. Actually induces a little loyalty too. Now that’s a rare commodity in this day and age. Baseball I mean…well, marriage too.
Since it’s so boring in here, you should watch this… it’s so true:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmfcYli6vV4
Also, this group is the biggest group from Indiana since the Jacksons:
Scott,
There’s a couple of comments in spam, but I can’t get them freed. In one I am attacked about Drew Maggi… and I like the guy – AAAA player that he might be! 😉
1 – Fantasy baseball numbers aren’t useful in evaluating a player because they focus on just 5 things usually – BA, R, RBI, HR and SB. They don’t factor defense at all. Dozier is especially valuable in fantasy because he is a power/speed guy at a middle infield spot.
2 – Toles by my no means a sure thing. Here is from True Blue LA:
“Toles hit .208/.260/.292 in 77 plate appearances against left-handed pitchers between the majors and minors, and it remains to be seen if Toles will be an everyday player or the business end of a platoon.
He got extended playing time in September, especially against right-handed pitching, but hit just .213/.229/.277 down the stretch.”
http://www.truebluela.com/2016/12/6/13778234/andrew-toles-2016-dodgers-review/in/13211855
3 – Not all prospects do anything! I am amazed at the thinking here that they will. One of the advantages to a “deep farm system” is that you can decide which prospects have the best chance of success and trade some of the others. It takes something good to get something good.
4 – The Dodgers need an upgrade at 2B and against lefties. Dozier would accomplish both. If not Dozier, then who plays 2B? Don’t say Kike. Don’t say Taylor. And please don’t say Calhoun. I haven’t read a single baseball talent analyst who says he will ever be able to play 2B at the MLB level.
I TOTALLY agree about Wee Willie Tree Trunks!
Rick
First Toles was not starting and playing everyday in Sept, or he wouldn’t have only 47 at bats, in 23 games played in Sept.
I don’t call 47 at bats in 23 games, as extended play, and most of his at bats, were late in games!
And he is an everyday player.
Most everyday major leaguers wouldn’t hit well, if they were played like that.
It is hard to come off a bench cold, and have late at bats against good bullpen pitchers , for most major league players, let alone a kid that started the season in A ball.
And Toles only got twenty at bats in August, so maybe that is another reason, he didn’t come out hitting in Sept.
Reddick had 85 at bats in August, and he couldn’t hit a thing!
And when Toles finally was started, and played in the post season, he out hit the whole team.
That doesn’t make any sense. if Toles couldn’t hit in September because he didn’t get enough AB, then why did he hit in August with fewer AB?
Rick
Because he got consistent at bats, in July!
His August playing time went down, once Reddick joined the team.
He didn’t get consistent at bats in Sept!
Everyday players start a game, and get mostly four at bats.
Toles didn’t have that is Sept!
Rick
I don’t consider starting ten games, out of thirty games in Sept, as extended play!
Hernandez.
Calhoun.
Johnson.
Culbarnesegedaylor.
Well, if the FAZ is admitting they got it wrong at second base then maybe the move is a 2 year rental. I still think we will be better in ’18 but if the move is to run the Cubs and Nats down in ’17 then let’s get it done. I don’t think this is the year, but if we’re all in, then a few trades and roster moves will need to be done.
We will need more better starting pitching so get that lined up. Get rid of Ethier to make room for Braun. And another arm or two in the bullpen. Is Barnes our backup catcher, or is he a backup second base? We will need a leadoff hitter. Hey, instead of Dozier, let’s trade Bellinger, Verdugo, Alvarez, Puig and De Leon for Altuve and Kuechel. Trade upgrade and we’ll have it made. Get the best let the games be played.
Let us not forget. If we win in 2017 and still lose the WS and have traded our best marbles, the Cubs are younger. They will counter. What will we have left? OK answer that one.. agent 99
Astros trying to win. No way they trade those two. They are trying to make a deal for Quintana.
I was being facetiously campy.
I’ve been clear on what I think they should do. Or done. The further we get from what I thought was the road to success the more bumfuddled I feel about “what next?” Dozier’s ok. We may not miss De Leon in ’18. Buehler may step into that spot with Alvarez ready to play a roll the following year. But De Leon is not enough. To get this guy is going to take another ’20 and beyond prospect. Which one?
Badger
That might be true, but Urias needs more stability, to be able to become a better starting pitcher.
They can’t keep moving him back and forth, in and out, of the bullpen.
I think the combo of the 40 man and his innings limitations will force him to spend some time in the ‘pen.
My auntie can really whack it (so says my uncle) maybe we could throw her in on the deal
Melton, clean up your act!!!
“2017 status: Inked a 3-year, $48 million deal to return to the Dodgers. He profiles as the team’s No. 2 starter behind Kershaw. If they can get 20 starts (plus postseason starts) out of Hill in each of the three years of his deal, it will have been well worth it” Nosler DD
REALLY? IF 20 starts? That’s 12.4 starts per year some other starter will have to cover for our #2. Frankly I don’t think we’ll see 60 starts out of this guy, but, that’s me.
Things are sure different. Some people say (no, not Limbaugh) the Dodgers will win 95 with 1 starter capable of 30 starts. Smoke and mirrors, platoons and a miracle bullpen. Roberts is Copperfield.
Badger
That former Atlanta Braves pitcher, John Smoltz thinks that Urias is going to step up, and be the number two pitcher for the Dodgers this year.
And he doesn’t just say anything like some do.
Another former major league pitcher, also said that Urias has better stuff then Kershaw.
And he didn’t say he is a better pitcher then Kershaw, but he liked Urias’ stuff better.
It looks like Urias has a sneaky fastball, that gets in on hitters, faster then they think.
He just needs to learn how to have better command of his pitches, as well as make sure he has command early, so his pitch count doesn’t go up so fast.
I think it’s possible that combined, Urias and Hill can make an effective #2. Urias is 20 years old, last year pitched over 100, but in August, September and October, pitched only 36 innings. Is he ready to step in and finish a full year, including playoffs? I think not. I have both he and Hill at about 125 innings. Together they would fill the hole at #2. I know it doesn’t work that way, but somebody has to take the ball on the days those two can’t, which will be probably be 24 starts through the year. If we give them both extra days off, who knows, maybe they pitch effectively through October.
I think we should take seriously the likelihood we will again need 12-15 different starters and be near the bottom of the league in starters IP.
How are we defining #2 starter?
Hill’s definitely the #2 in my book, but I’m much less dependent on games started than others here I believe.
Games started by a #2 starter are not important to you?
Why am I not in the least surprised that they signed another former Ray to a minor league deal? Because that is their modus operandi. They thrive on mediocrity. To sign a pitcher who actually can get outs is beyond their comprehension. Of course it is low risk, high reward if the guy pans out. Chances of that? About 0.01 percent. I am not saying gut the system, nor am I saying it is a bad signing. I am saying it is what I have come to expect. To me, even the Dozier trade is far from a sure thing. Reports have the Braves in on him, and they have young arms to dangle. Alas it is still January and spring training is about 6 weeks away. Would be nice to have some idea of who we will have by then.
The Twins can’t let it happen as a one to one deal after this much time holding out, they need to save face. Ditto for FAZ, he can’t walk away empty handed now, his reputation would suffer. Is there a minor Twin player or two we could use? We know they covet some of ours. By expanding the size of the deal, both sides would be able to walk away without feeling they were beaten.
Of course egos are involved. I remain hopeful common sense will rule the day. Looking around the daily landscape I’m doubtful. Common sense has left the planet.
But, the bottom line here is business. How do the Dodgers and Twins best manipulate the bottom line. Who wins the $ battle. The Twins need to put butts in seats and try to convince their fan base they can get better and compete. A one for one trade does not do that. 5 WAR player for 1 prospect? Uh, no. The Dodgers don’t need anybody to make money. Despite what you may continue to hear about LA financial woes, it’s bull$h*t, the Dodgers will again draw 3.7 million and cash the checks from a tv deal that also makes NO sense. They get the money and the viewing market gets the shaft. Only people with ef you money can keep that nonsense up. The Guggs have ef you money up the wazoo.
I continue to believe something gets done for the simple reason more offense will help cover the lack of starting pitching depth. But, it’s impossible to accurately predict what this front office has in mind.
I think all the front office has to say, is that the Twins wanted to much for Dozier.
Dozier is the Twins best player, and there best chip, and they are going to ask for to much, but they don’t have a good market, so that isn’t going to happen.
Dozier brings in most of there fan base, because they need to rebuild, but they don’t have anyone really, that is worth that much.
Dozier does have a team friendly contract, but it is only for two years.
That isn’t worth what a Sale is, or even the centerfielder, that the White Sox traded.
Because there centerfielder, had a team friendly contract, that was for five years.
The front office can sign Utley, if they don’t find a second baseman.
The problem is that we can’t count on Turner, Puig, Scotty, and Kike, to hit lefties.
I think Turner will come back and hit lefties better this year.
Because he didn’t like when the press kept saying that.
Nomar gave Turner some advice late in the season, about hitting lefties.
And Nomar thought it was more just a little adjustment, that Turner needed.
And I just think Turner is working on hitting lefties, in this off season.
But even the Dodger’s new beat writer, joked about how Puig is going to come back this year with a new attitude, and in great shape.
And this is what gets people upset about Puig.
We hear this every year about Puig, and it lasts about a month.
I prefer Perez to Dozier because he is younger and should be obtainable for lessor prospects. He is a good defensive shortstop and if he were not traded to the Dodgers to play second, he could play short for the Brewers should Villar be traded to the Dodgers.
Perez ( http://m.mlb.com/player/541650/hernan-perez ) would be happier playing second for the Dodgers than would Villar. Still, we all would rather have Villar.
If the Brewers really do want to rid themselves of Braun’s contract maybe they would accept an offer they can’t refuse and that offer would be for both Braun and Villar.
I don’t know if someone on the active roster can be a PTBDL but if so, maybe McCarthy and Kazmir could be included as a PTBDL. Maybe include Ethier in the group of players the Brewers could choose from as well as a PTBDL.
Braun and Villar to Dodgers.
De Leon, PTBDL, De Jong, Verdugo, Calhoun, Puig.
Bum
I think this guy is there super utility player, like Kike.
He played a lot of third base, and played second early in his career, but he isn’t a major league second baseman, or major League, shortstop.
He did play a lot of third, but he plays in the infield and the outfield, just like Kike.
His stats from last year were not bad, but the Brewers, are really emphasizing flexibility, so I don’t know if they will trade him.
But I like your idea of getting a young player, with a team friendly contract.
He probably has a contract, that is longer then two years, so that is a plus.
It is to bad we couldn’t get Segura, before he was traded to the Mariners.
I know he had a career year like Dozier, but I think he is a more complete offensive player, then Dozier.
Because of Dozier’s problem with hitting above 250, and striking out so much.
But I think a younger player, with a team friendly contract, that isn’t a two year rental, is the type of player, the Dodgers should get for JDL.
I like the idea of targeting guys like Villar and Perez but that’s not our model. The FAZ strategy is different. They trade and sign risk, therefor discounted veterans and pick up young players that are marginal (Hernandez Thompson) or moveable pieces (Peraza, Montas). You don’t get proven 25 year old often team controlled players cheaply. It’s better to develop those. I want a team full of those guys, with another team being developed. That’s why trading guys like Cotton, Montas, Holmes – even trading Gordon then Peraza, was troubling for me. I don’t want Hill, I want Cotton, Holmes, Montas, Urias, and De Leon all in my camp. I can’t help it, I think Pedro Martinez when these young talented arms being sent off. And I want Peraza back. I liked that guy.
FAZ don’t roll like Badger. Badger old. FAZ contemporary. I get it. I’m a few decades shy of contempo, I get reminded of that a hundred ways every day. But I like to think I know something about baseball. The game I get, maybe it’s just people I don’t.
Badger, I am hoping Perez falls into risk pool and swims out of it with the Dodgers. He is ahead of Peraza and Thompson but only one year ahead of them.
Okay, let’s include Hernandez to replace Perez as the Brewers utility guy.
Winter League: .392 .503 .895 with 162 at bats. http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/org.jsp?id=mil
2014
Spent the majority of the 2014 season with Triple-A Toledo, batting .287 with 69 runs scored, 32 doubles, seven triples, six home runs and 53 RBI in 133 games with the Mud Hens…Rated as the best defensive shortstop in the International League by Baseball America…Finished fourth in the International League with 157 hits, while he was tied for fifth with seven triples
He and Kiké are the same age. Kiké has been in the league the last 3 years. I wonder what he would have done playing every day in the minors for that time.
I found a candidate, now we need to send out a cross-checker.
I just had an image of Zdeno Chara flying across the ice and taking out Donald Trump. You know, candidate, cross checker …… what a vision…..I need to let that go. But not yet…….
I will vicariously live through your 140 second vision of that.
This football play off game right now, looks like a big mis match.
Pittsburg is controlling the line of scrimmage so much, they don’t even have to pass.
Such a boring game. GB/NYG will be the best game of the weekend.
Go Giants!! (ew, that sounded gross, but I mean football giants) . Beat the crappers. Go Bears
Bobby
The Dophins were driving me nuts, by continuing to run on there first two downs, instead of passing on first down, or second down.
They have been behind the whole game, but they still stick to there running game, on there early downs.
This looks promising
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/01/dodgers-close-to-minors-deal-with-jose-miguel-fernandez.html?fv-home=true&post-id=82174
Third best player in Cuba in 2015!!!
Could be a great pick up.
No power at all, barely adequate defense. That was 3 years ago. I’m not holding my breath…
Another lh doesn’t impress defensively not fast probably short legged second baseman?
Financial details not available. If this guy was any good, wouldn’t someone else have nabbed him? And aren’t we in the high tax bracket in the international market already?
He’s 28 or 29, won’t affect our ban. Could be a smoke screen to pressure the Twins. Otherwise, I don’t think he has a thing to offer that half a dozen of our players already have. But you know executives are idiots…
Watford
I hope so, but when they said adequate on defense, I thought about Guerrero.
And believe it or not, Olivera was worse then Guerrero.
I hope he is good enough on defense, because his bat won’t play in leftfield.
We won’t know until we see him play, or show up on the Major League roster.
1 – Hill has the stuff to be a #2 but not the endurance or health, at least not historically.
2 – Urias – don’t know if he’s ready to be a #2. He looks good but he’s young and inexperienced.
3 – Starting pitching “depth” comes in 2 flavors: the old and infirm (Kazmir, McCarthy, Ryu, Hill) and the young and largely untested (Urias, Stewart, Stripling, DeLeon and the legions in the minors). Will it be enough?
4 – The Dodgers aren’t going to pry someone’s best young player from their roster. Trea Turner and Jonathan Villar aren’t coming.
5 – Most other teams don’t want the Dodgers’ junk. The likes of Brandon McCarthy aren’t going to be what it takes to pry some team’s best young players away. It takes something good to get something good.
6 – I do expect the Dodgers to make a trade or 2 for salary relief. I would be surprised if Kazmir was still on the roster opening day.
I am inclined to settle for that. I still think Solarte is our best chance. San Diego loves to trade, and they just might take Kazmir if we make the deal sweet enough…
1 – Way back in 2007, Rich Hill pitched 195 innings while starting 32 games. Since then he was mostly a reliever, having only started 22 games combined until 2015, when he started 5 games for Boston and 2016 when he started 20 games. There is no “book” on Hill since he has only been a starter for really one season. He could start 28+ games (or not). The thing is: he has very few innings on his arm. I would imagine he is soaking his finger in battery acid all winter and it would not surprise me if he pitched 180+ innings.
2 – Let compare Urias to Clayton. Clayton pitched 122 innings at at age 19. Co-incidentally, so did Urias! Urias, however pitched 54 innings at 16, 87 at 17 and 80 at 18. Clayton pitched 169 innings at 20 and 171 at 21 befor he pitched 204 at age 22. I look for Urias to pitch 170-190 innings. Look for Urias to dominate next season. I expect a sub 3.00 ERA. He will do what he did the second time he was in AAA.
3 – I still say that among Ryu, Kazmir and McCarthy, there will be at least one good arm. Maybe two. Spring training could hold a deal or two.
4 – Trea Turner is untouchable. Villar would cost way too much.
5- McCarthy and Kazmir and Ethier will only be traded IF they are healthy and productive and a team needs them.
6 – Names who could be traded for salary relief: KAZ, MAC, ANDRE, A-GON (yes Gonzo).
Fernandez is a LH Hitter!
Mark
Then why?
About to buy tickets to Camelback spring training, for around Feb. 26-March 3. Anybody want to reco a hotel in Glendale, or nearby? I’ll have a car so open to a place a bit out of town where I could see a bit more of Arizona too… or is that a useless diversion? Hoping to get the best look at the Dodger’s future. Thanks!
Ok, Hill 180 innings, Urias 190.
Our starting pitching just got a lot better.
At risk of being called negative and and a glass half empty guy – I got the under on both.
Salary dumps? AGon is productive. Kaz might be, but, $35 million? Who the **** would take that on for him? It would cost half that just to dump him. McCarthy is a ghost and Ethier could actually still earn his money. I think we’re probably stuck with all of them, but Ethier could be traded – and AGon could be also traded, but what’s your replacement plan?
Badger
On that one scouting report it didn’t even have Bellinger making the bigs, until 2018.
I was kind of suprised about Bellingers expected time of arrival, with how some talk on here.
I thought it would be 2017, but in Sept, with the call ups, but there estimate was 2018.
Agone won’t be traded, unless we are out of the penant race in 2018, at the trade deadline.
I agree MJ. Bellinger might get some outfield time if he tears up AAA. I don’t see them moving AGon. He’s a HOF player and might go in as a Dodger.
There already are 30 players trying to squeeze into the 25 active roster. There is no place for Bellinger unless there are injuries and trades. SVS will get the time at first that Agon doesn’t get and there are 6 outfielders.
Bellinger is going to have to really tear up AAA and Agon will have to have problems with his neck for Bellinger to make the Dodgers before July and even then the stars would have to line up.
MJ, I think speedy will be a Dodger for you at least through……..
So, you don’t see any outfield possibilities for Bellinger come late summer? I wish I was as optimistic. I see holes appearing that a .350 hitting AAA player might be able to fill. Hope I’m wrong about that. My outfield is Ethier, Pederson and Puig. Obviously that could change.
Only if the stars line up. Something has to happen with Thompson, Toles, Ethier, Pederson, Puig, SVS, and Henderson, as in no longer on the team happen.
I think his best chance is at first base should Agon have neck issues that puts him on the DL.
My best case scenario has AGon in the lineup for 156 games and Bellinger as a September call up.
You already buy em Badger??? I heard they are sold out of most tix… I triede to get some extra yesterday, no cigar…
You talking about Zeppelin tickets on the 4th?
Agon – (no the Trade)…
To all the naysayers here who are afraid of including our prospects in a trade and also cry about payroll being too high, etc. I have the solution albeit it may take a while to do it, like all year.
If you see names missing, it’s because they’ve been trade or sold for more prospects. Here is your 2018 25man opening day roster:
1B- Bellinger
2B- Calhoun
SS – Lux
3B- Seager
OF- Peterson
OF- Toles
OF- Thompson
C- Barnes
Bench- W. Smith
Verdugo
Taylor
M. Johnson
Estevez
SP- Deleon
Urias
Alvarez
Stewart
Stripling/Buehler
RP- Jansen
Dayton
Rhame
Dejong
Sheffield
Abdullah/Ravin
Sborz
With the above lineup we give our prospects a chance to see what they can/can’t do and in the process reduce our payroll(that so many have been crying about) by who knows $100MM-$150MM? More??
Why is my post being moderated? No swear/cuss words or the like.
Happens a lot Richie.
There are good players missing in a way that they did not result in a trade that brought back anybody that could break the 25 e.g. Kershaw, Turner, Gonzales, Puig
I expect that they won’t want Urias to increase his IP more than 25% over last year which would be 160 ip. I really don’t expect a 37 YO Hill who hasn’t thrown more than 111 IP in more than a decade to pitch more than 150 – I honestly expect less.
There have been rumors in light of the poor free agent group of pitchers this year that there might be interest in Kazmir. Even if they have to pay part of his salary they won’t pay all so they still save $$.
Other salary dumpee: Puig.
Rick
Puig really doesn’t make that much does he?
$6.5MM in 2017; $7.5MM in 2018. The likes of Toles and Thompson are far less expensive.
I don’t think A Gone is a Hall of Fame player. He’s had some great years, but career-wise only 308 hr so far. I doubt he gets to 400.
I really like him, and I love that we got him, and have him still. He’s a leader of this team, but now should be batting 5 or 6. Hopefully other guys step up so he gracefully step back.
Another thought if we get Dozier: he’d likely bat 5 or 6. So you’d have Dozier, Joc, and Grandal maybe 5, 6, 7 to start. That’s some serious feast of famine types! I’d expect multiple innings of k, k, k in that scenario. Hopefully all 3 are still improving.
Bobby
That is part of why I am against that trade.
I don’t see that type of hitter, flourishing in a new league with new pitchers.
Puig will earn his money. I say he earns it before September. It’s not a salary dump if the player is earning his keep. That move is just called a trade.
I can see Urias getting 160. I do not see Hill getting that many. Kazmir will be 140 innings if 4.5 ERA. I’m concerned about Maeda too. We have a lot of starters, names really, that will step in but we’ve been doing that for a few years now and with the rare exception it hasn’t worked that well. I’d like to see Wood and De Leon pitch their way into the rotation in Spring Training. They’re young, and might be strong enough to continue to take the ball every 5th day. 6 man rotation might actually work with this group. Might. I still value quality starts out of as many starters as possible. Would a 6 man give us more, or less?
Puig will receive $6.5 MM in 2017 and $7.5MM in 2018. If management thinks that some combination of Thompson, Toles and Ether can man the OF corners next year then trading Puig will result in salary savings. That makes it a dump.
As far as Puig earning his salary, he was a 1.1 WAR player in 2015 and a 1.4 WAR player in 2016 so I’d say that it isn’t a sure thing at this point that he will.
I prefer a 4 man rotation to a 5 and 5 to a 6 – give the ball to your best pitchers and have them pitch as many innings as possible. If the Dodgers don’t have such pitchers (and they don’t except for Kid K), then it is on the management – but of course they have “depth” instead – and crummy starting pitching – at least they did in ’16. Will Hill and Urias make the difference this year? I have no idea.
A dump is when a player is traded for a bag of balls. Salary relief alone is not a dump. If Puig is traded for Swanson (just to make a point) the Dodgers traded depth at the outfield position for scarcity at the infield position and the difference of salary was a bi-product and not a dump.
A backup catcher as well
http://m.ocregister.com/articles/league-740577-experience-big.html
We have different definitions of dump Rick. You don’t dump things of value. You sell them for return of value. And a 4 man rotation is old school nuts. You must be older than me.
Bobby’s probably right about AGon and the HOF. I had it in my head he would finish with 400 home runs and 1500 RBIs. Doesn’t look like he’ll make that. 5 All Star games so far, 4 Gold Gloves, 2 Silver Sluggers and a standup guy in every measurable way. It will be close by the time he’s done. And he’s not done. It would not surprise me if he had 100 ribbies again. If we had a decent leadoff hitter in front of Seager he could do it easy.
Ok, something other than the mundane backups to backup backups.
Was going to comment on the Agon HOF statement but Bobby made it for me. I don’t see him making the HOF either. He’s been a very good and consistent performer but IMO will fall short of the HOF.
Like your last sentence there Badger. Now we can say we go ‘4 deep’ at every position. NO ONE else can say that!
Just don’t ask the question, ‘Does that win championships?’