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The Dodgers Lost The NLCS, But Still Had a Good Season

The Dodger’s season came to an end on Saturday night as they lost the NLCS to the Chicago Cubs in game 6 by a 5-0 score. The Cubs won the NLCS four games to two and advanced to their first World Series since 1945. The city of Chicago celebrated something they had been waiting to happen for 71 years. Waveland Avenue went crazy and Bill Murray cried. It was a surreal scene as the Dodgers limped away into the offseason.

I was too upset to write a recap of the game. Honestly there was nothing to recap. Clayton Kershaw wasn’t terrible but completely ineffective. He had no curveball working and the rest of his pitches had no bite at all. Kershaw allowed five runs (four earned) in five innings pitched and the Dodgers never had a look at the game. Andrew Toles made a costly error on a routine fly ball in the bottom of the first inning that helped the Cubs push across two early runs. I think he accidentally took his eyes off the ball. He was looking at the base runner and the ball clanked off of his glove. It was as stupid error, but Toles is a rookie and it’s hard for a first year player to play in that hostile environment in that situation. Toles is a talented player but very young and inexperienced.

The Cubs had the first three batters reach base and never looked back after that. There were two big home runs from Anthony Rizzo and Wilson Contreras. The Dodger bats were completely shut down by opposing starter Kyle Hendricks. The Dodgers had two hits both singles and just one hit after the first inning. Toles singled to lead-off the game and then was immediately erased when Corey Seager grounded into a double play. Josh Reddick reached on an error later in the game and was picked off. Kenley Jansen pitched the last four innings allowing no runs and striking out 4 in what could be his final game as a Dodger. It was depressing and the Dodgers totally looked like they had given up.

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We learned some things though from this series.

  1. There are no such things as curses.

The cubs were never cursed. If they were then they would have lost this game somehow. The Cub’s 71 year pennant drought can be directly attributed to poor luck, misfortunate, and bad management. As I have said before success can’t break a curse. Only the person that placed the curse can remove it and he is dead I believe. The Cubs snapped their World Series drought because they were the best team in Baseball all season long. They built a super team over there and it appears that the Cubs will be championship caliber for many years to come.

  1. The Dodgers played the Cubs tough

The Dodgers were overwhelming underdogs to the Cubs coming into this series but they still were able to not only avoid being swept but actually had the lead in the series 2-1. They won two games and except for games 4 and 6 played the Cubs well. It’s a consolation really, but it’s something to remember.

  1. The Dodgers still had a great season considering the obstacles they had to overcome

It’s amazing the Dodgers even made it this far with all of the injuries they suffered. We’re talking about breaking the major league record for most players on the disabled list. Losing Clayton Kershaw for nearly three months, and having almost no starting pitching for almost the entire season. They overcame an eight game deficit to win their fourth consecutive National League West title, and they came from behind to win the final two games of the NLDS to eliminate a very good Washington Nationals club. The Dodgers have nothing to hang their heads about this season.

  1. The Dodgers are the Buffalo Bills of baseball and will probably never win a World Series in our lifetimes.

As I predicted in spring training the Dodgers would win 90 games, win the division, but lose in the playoffs. That’s exactly what they did. It’s not surprising. This is four consecutive seasons in a row that the Dodgers have failed to make it to the World Series and the club now has one of the longest World Series droughts in the sport. It’s sad but I have lost all hope of the club ever making it to the World Series in my lifetime.

Again they have a ton of organizational talent. They’ll win the division and make the playoffs nearly every year. But they’ll just lose in the playoffs over and over and over again. Sorry but it’s just the truth. The organization just doesn’t know how to get through the playoffs. Expect this soul crushing postseason failure every season for the rest of the decade. I’ve just accepted it.

The Dodgers have to address a few of the glaring weaknesses on the roster during the offseason. They have to improve the rotation and find a proven postseason pitcher that can give them some innings. They need somebody like a Jon Lester or a Madison Bumgarner that can slot in behind Kershaw and give them some reliability. Somebody that knows how to pitch in the playoffs.

They are just going to have to go out and spend some money to that. They don’t have to spend 180 million dollars, but they will have to spend some cash to do it. Otherwise they will never win in the postseason…..ever. As we’ve seen before Clayton Kershaw is excellent in the regular season but seems to be unable to pitch in big playoff games. He needs some help and the Dodgers need innings from their starters. Fix this Friedman.

The Dodgers also need a better offensive unit. They need more production from their lineup. The offense sucked for most of the year save for Corey Seager and Justin Turner. The club was unable to hit any left hander thrown at them and had little to no base running speed in the lineup. The club must change their offensive approaches at the plate as well. They are simply not aggressive enough with two strikes and still can’t hit with runners in scoring position.

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The club also needs to get more athletic and younger at second base, first base, left field, and right field. They need to stop playing percentages and using marginal utility players when there is a left hander on the mound. Minor league nobodies like Kike Hernandez, Charlie Culberson, and Rob Segedin should never be playing over the regulars. The lineup they put out in game 5 against Jon Lester was inexcusable. Stop doing it. It doesn’t work. No more lefty/righty garbage.

In the end the Dodgers gave us more than we ever expected them too. They overachieved with a rookie manager. Dave Roberts did a fantastic job in his first year and I think he has the right attitude to lead the Dodgers into the future. The Dodgers must resign their stars. Kenley Jansen, Justin Turner, and Chase Utley should all be brought back.

I just want to thank all of you for following along all season over here. There were ups and there downs, but the Dodgers still gave us plenty to cheer about. Unfortunately they fell just short of their goal. Here’s to hoping that one day we can all celebrate a Dodgers World Series championship. I think we all could use a couple of days to catch our breaths.

Just because the season is over doesn’t mean this site will go dark. We’ll have plenty of coverage to write about including free agent signings, trades, rumors, analysis, and reviews. So don’t go away, because we’ll be here to give you our report on all of that.

In the meantime let’s just relax and take a look back on what was a very exciting and often times frustrating Dodger season. Again I want to thank you all for being here.

Always Go Blue!

Scott Andes

Scott Andes: Longtime writer and Dodger fanatic

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Scott Andes
Scott Andes: Longtime writer and Dodger fanatic

117 thoughts on “The Dodgers Lost The NLCS, But Still Had a Good Season

  1. Deja vu.

    Everything you just said looked like it was lifted from 2015.

    This season unfolded almost to the letter of what some of us predicted it would. That won’t sit well with our resident FAZophants, but tough. REAL baseball minds could see all year this team was lacking. What those of us who figured the roster had too many shortcomings didn’t see in the crystal ball was Kershaw and Jansen being worked like mules to finish off the superior Nationals. That was cool, but to believe that could be done two more times in the same season wasn’t realistic.

    What was needed did indeed require more money, but it appears that money has been spent on the International market and doesn’t really show up under payroll. This was done the last two years under FAZ direction and is a big part of the reason I’ve been looking ahead to 2018. If it was really about “this year” the Dodgers would have spent some of that money on “this year”. The signings of McCarthy, Anderson and Kazmir look now exactly like I predicted they would. Maeda, who signed an incentive laden deal, and who does that anymore, faded as expected. He’s a #4-5 on a championship club and not built to pitch in October.

    I say again, if it’s about getting payroll below luxury tax levels, we are far from done with bargain shopping. These guys will be scouring basements from Cuba to Asia to South America to Mexico to the Carribean. ’17 will be ’16 that was ’15. At this time I got the under on 91 wins in ’17. I reserve the right to change that call.

    1. OK, Nostradamus. Mr. “This season unfolded almost to the letter of what some of us predicted it would.” Where did you project AZ? Ha Ha . Cracks me up, you claiming to be clairvoyant, based on your bold “prophetical” prediction that the Dodgers wouldn’t win the championship. Let’s see, thirty MLB teams, one champion, one out thirty odds. Great Job! NOT!! Tell us, will the sun rise tomorrow?

      Badger: “At this time I got the under on 91 wins in ’17. I reserve the right to change that call.” How DARING!!!!!

      After your recent medical procedure, you might be similar, but, you aren’t any “Old Mother Shipton”.

        1. Wonder, I think I remember that song being sung by Da Yoopers in a saloon in Hudson Wisconsin in ’94. I never heard of them but the place was packed and the band rocked. I remember a few others, Second Week of Deer Camp, If I Could Fart Like My Dad. and Grandpa Got Run Over By a Beer Truck. There were many other favorites sung that night, but what a different experience for a guy from California.

          So, you think my problem might be I’m related to myself? Isn’t that more of a Southern thing – that stretches north to Indiana?

      1. Az is all you got?

        Yeah, I predicted they would contend. I did not pick them over the Dodgers. I did say the 3 teams would slug it out yo the end and said it would be SF or LA, but I did think the giants, with their bold pitching moves, would come out on top and we would be Wild Card. The difference between your predictions and mine were simply this – when asked I had the courage to step out and make them. I don’t recall you doing anything but bitching about those who dare challenge the All Knowing Timmons and his 95 wins and World Series THIS YEAR position. I had the Jays and the Cubs. Who did you have? You didn’t have anybody, which allows you to hide and watch, and criticize those who did step from the shadows.

        I knew you phants would not like my post. I predicted that too.

        Now what? You have some things to offer about how we get from so many trips to the playoffs to actually becoming the best in the NL? What’s your plan to beat the Cubs next year? I’m listening. I don’t hear anything but …… “All Hail the Great and Powerful FAZ!” That and “I’m just finishing up the the second coat now Mr. McTimmons”…

  2. “This season unfolded almost to the letter of what some of us predicted it would. That won’t sit well with our resident FAZophants, but tough.”

    *sigh* Timmons and Badger – two peas from the same pod.

    1. That statement confirms your lack of any grasp on reality. Timmons and I are exact opposites in every measurable way.

      These conversations are beginning are beginning exactly like last year’s did. Deny if you choose to, doesn’t change reality.

  3. Scott thanks for your blog. It’s a great site to get out our emotions.

    As far as this series, the Cubs were the better team and deserved to win, IMHO.

    I will take it one step further. The Cubs are a fun team to watch. They seem to run hard on almost every play. And sadly the Dodgers aren’t. At least this incarnation isn’t. Maybe as we get younger we will be a fun team. But with this administration it will be more about the statistical edge vs that day’s starting pitcher.

    1. Artieboy

      Pitching is where the Cubs beat us.

      Most of there big hits were on hangers, and there hits were on pitching mistakes.

      They didn’t hit good pitching.

      The biggest reason the Cubs won, was with there starting pitching.

      There starters only allowed I think they said five runs, or close to that, in the whole series.

      1. MJ the Cubs just outplayed us in every facet of the game. Compare Baez hustle to throw out Agon with Kike’s ridiculous fish out of water play at 2B.

        And yes their pitching was sensational. This kid Hendricks gave up 1 run in two games. Good pitching will beat good hitting most of the time. It’s an old baseball adage that modern baseball tends to eschew. Maybe during a long season you can still win but in the post season it’s a different story. Starting a 20 years old vs a team which wins over 100 games will probably end in a loss which it did.

        I won’t downplay how the Cubs played. In fact I said the opposite, I wish our boys could play that type of exciting baseball.

        1. Artieboy

          You are forgeting something.

          The Cubs was given so much more talent then the Dodgers were, and from the begining of the year.

          If the Dodgers had the rotation the Cubs had all year, things would have been much diffrent, and much easier.

          Our players had to out hit, and out play teams, ever since Kershaw went out.

          And before that, the Dodgers offense was waiting for Turner, and our key players to hit.

          And the starting rotation still wasn’t much then.

          And our bullpen pitched way to many innings, then any bullpen in baseball.

          All because we didn’t have much of a rotation, or starters that could pitch much more then five innings.

          Look at what the Giant starters did to the Cubs offense?

          The Giants mainly lost that series to the Cubs, because of there bullpen.

          I am not upset with our players, because they did give there all, most of the entire season, and against the Nats, but I think they just wore out physically and mentally.

          1. They were not given talent….they drafted, signed and traded for it. Their front office acquired better players than the Dodgers. Yes, they overpaid for Heyward, but they had a lot of production from players you would not expect. I remember Baez as being an easy out 2 years ago, but Russell, Rizzo, and Bryant all played brilliantly. Zobrist was an amazing pick up, and Fowler coming back gave them a legitimate lead off man, something the Dodgers never really had all year. The boosted their bullpen at the deadline and never really were challenged until the Dodgers had them down 2-1. Seager and Maeda were definitely out of gas, but guys who have been there before should not have been. Grandal, Utley, Kike, Gonzo, all had terrible playoff runs, but Gonzo did win game 2 because he drove in the only run….baseball is one of those games where sometimes things go just the way they are planned, and other times, weird things happen…..The Giants don’t tank, we are the wild card….nothing is written in stone…….and my prediction, Cubs win the series in 6. And they will be a pain in the Dodgers quest to win for the next 5 years at least…

  4. Scott

    I don’t agree with your wording, about what our players need to do with two strikes, and especially with runners on base.

    I guess I would not say more agressive, I would say, they need to try to get there bat on the ball, to get a hit just over the infielders, or a easy smart swing, with two strikes.

    Because strike outs, are not productive for the team.

    And I know by putting the ball in play, it can lead to a double play at times, but the more players, try to get there bat on the ball, they will get better, when it comes to two strikes.

    Even the biggest free swinger on the Cubs
    Baez, has learned to get his bat on the ball, to get a runner over or in, or just get him on base, when down with two strikes.

    Baez also has great talent, and bat speed and great agility, so that helps him too.

    I use Baez as an example because he was striking out, even more then Joc did in his first year, when he first came up.

    If you watch Buster Posey, with two strikes, and runners on base, he puts his bat on the ball, better then most hitters I have seen.

    But for players to do this, they have to forget about there individual stats, and hit as a team player.

    But saber metrics don’t really give much value, to this type of hitting.

    Because saber metrics doesn’t penalize hitters to much for striking out, players that strike out a lot, still have high offensive numbers with the biggest offensive measure that sabers use, which is ops.

    Even when Grandal isn’t contributing much at all, he will still have a decent ops which most measure offense with.

    And that is why I don’t think ops is a very good way to measure what a player is contributing on offense.

    Players also just foul balls off, when they have two strikes, to wait until a pitcher makes a mistake.

    These are the two biggest differences I see, with other teams and players, that have more productive offenses, then the Dodgers.

    And these type of strategys, are some of the best strategys, that help teams hit and produce, in the post season, against good pitching.

    The Cubs really didn’t face much good pitching against the Dodgers, except for the two games, that Kershaw and Hill won, and with Kenley.

    The Cubs really don’t hit good pitching, much more then the Dodgers did, they hit mistakes, because most of there big hits were on hangers.

    The fact that the Cubs didn’t hit good pitching, also was apparent against the Giants starting pitching.

    As well with Kershaw, Hill, and Kenley, so I am interested in seeing how they do against the Indians good pitching.

    The Indians lost there number two and three starter, right before the post season, but there manager managed there pitching so well, along with there big relief guy Miller, so I think the Indians just might beat the Cubs.

    1. Cubs 63% …….

      I believe sabermetrics is an evolving science. I think they will eventually value bunting against the shift, defense, and actually hitting the ball and will devalue pitch framing.

    2. No offense, MJ, but reading your posts is like going 15 rounds with Floyd Patterson. I don’t think I’m particularly stupid (some will disagree…) but I just lose concentration and I’m sure I’m not getting as much out of them as I should… Perhaps shorter posts, six or eight sentences, would get your points across better, you know, in smaller bites. Make as many posts as you like, just try to make smaller, more easily consumed thoughts for us mere mortals…

        1. Of course Mark tends to go long but I don’t even try to read his crap. Badger is sometimes medium long as are mine and some of the others here, especially the FAZophants. But longest average length, you are the unchallenged champ.
          I shudder to think how long they might be if you were posting on a computer instead of a cell phone. I don’t know how you do it…

          1. Wondering

            I think my back would probably be hurting more on a computer.

            I will get one eventually.

            And thanks I did look at those computers you posted.

            I didn’t know they were that low, but I don’t know much of what is important or not.

    3. Michael

      I guess what I mean is that Maddon, was given more talent to work with, from the different moves, and drafting, that Epstein did.

      The biggest difference to me, is that Epstein has worked at two big market teams.

    4. Russell got a hanger from Blanton, and a fastball right down the middle of the plate, from Urias, that he hit out

      The biggest problem was that we gave Russell the Cubs eighth hitter, two good pitches to hit, with the pitcher on deck.

  5. On the pitchers: Taken as a group, all of our pitchers are mediocre or, at best, unproven. Except for Kershaw, who is still one of the best. Except in the playoffs. In the spring, we have to weed out from this group the best 4-5 guys. They HAVE TO BE HEALTHY. At least when camp breaks. Each one has to have the potential to go 180+ innings. I think McCarthy, Ryu, Anderson, maybe Wood are all damaged goods, and should go. For anything. But they won’t go unless the young guys finally make their marks. I have a feeling that the suits are going to bring back a 10 man rotation again, with half of them in the minors. This is not a good strategy and we have it only because our 2-5 guys are not good enough. I keep thinking of Iwakuma. He would have shown better in the playoffs that Maeda. Bad guess on the part of the suits. I think Hill has been healthy except for the blister issue, but he is of marginal age. Since we don’t have anyone else, sign him. Maeda is ok for the back end. So we need a 3 and 4 and maybe an alternate 5. I really am not optimist that those guys are in our farm system. If they are, next season will be a real experiment in young, starting pitching, which may be a disaster and which will probably tax the bullpen again. I would LOVE to have another crack at Iwakuma, but I don’t think that will happen. He is the type of guy we need though for those spots. Someone should post a list of free agent starting pitchers, and we can take a look at it. Once again, this will be an interesting off season and spring. But: THE GIANTS SUCK.

    1. You forgot the Great Kazmir! That magician who was slotted in as our #2 and faded like a 10 year old race horse…he of the bad back and lousy pitch count…and yes, we have him 2 more years! Thank you FAZ..Oh, and according to reports, Hill wants to pitch on the east coast….bye bye LA,. Hello Baltimore…

  6. Bobbie17-

    Someone can post the list of FA pitchers BUT the reason everyone was in on the bidding wars last off season was because the ONLY quality starter that ‘could’ have been available this off season was Strasburg. The Nationals ponied up and resigned him. Now there is ‘no one.’ The soon to be 37 y/o Hill with less than 100 starts in his 12 year career could be the best FA pitcher. That is how bad it is.

    That’s why Grienke, Cueto, Price, Samardzija, Leake and Lackey all went for the dollars they got. CAUSE ALL OF THOSE GM’S KNEW THAT THERE WOULD NOT BE ANYONE AVAILABLE THIS YEAR!

    Look at the teams that signed these players. Look at the GM’s (excluding the D-Backs). All visionary GM’s/organizations. Notice how Epstein didn’t sign Lackey to just a one year deal. Notice how Cueto’s contract is for 2 years (before opting out). This is not coincidence. F & Z are like jr. high kids with their new age math competing with college grads.

    1. Uh oh Chili. You’re gonna pay for critiquing the Great and Powerful. You’re right of course, but, right don’t matter.

      It could be that 200 inning Quality Start pitchers don’t add up to “wins” in the Fried Zaidi I’ll-Go-Rithmic Playbook. It would seem they want 5 out of starters, then 4 out of the bullpen. Considering that is who we are as a staff, stacking the pen is what’s to be expected again this winter.

      1. Yeah, well, ya know….acquiring players who add up to “wins” is kind of important. Do you really need an algorithm to tell you that wins are sort of an important metric?

        Yeah, look at all of those visionary organizations that signed all of those expensive pitchers and are now watching the World Series from home.

        Maybe the 5/4 innings split isn’t the worst thing in the world. Sure, it’d be nice to have a Lester or Scherzer just going in and handling it for 7-8 innings, but those are really the only expensive FA pitchers who have been worth it to their teams.

        Price, Zimmerman, Greinke have been really expensive examples of mediocrity. Cueto could be a good signing. I think Smardija was and is really overvalued. That was a stupid signing.

        1. DP-

          Point of the matter is that other than the Cardinals (whom missed the playoffs by one game), the Giants, Cubs and Red Sox all made the playoffs with the Cubs and Red Sox having very good years.

          Since 2004…..the Red Sox have 3 Championships. The Giants have 3 Championships. The Cardinals have 2 Championships and the Cubs are playing for one this year.

          Feel free to rip those organizations but in reality them and their fan bases are laughing at the Dodgers. Yes, the team with the best pitcher in the game (over the last IDK, 6 years…., had 2 of the top 5 pitchers for 2013, 2014 & 2015 and yet have NOT even played in the WS, little lone won one.

          1. Great! What does Price have to do with their previous championships? Did he help them this year? Is he the reason they were successful this year, or the reason they got bounced in the playoffs? Has the astronomical price paid to him been worth it?

            Do the Cardinals owe their recent consistent excellence to going out and signing expensive “stars,” or have they been particularly good at cultivating home grown talent?

            I think you undermine your own argument with your last paragraph. So yes, the Dodgers had two of the top five pitchers, but that wasn’t enough, and had the Dodgers signed Greinke they’d be in the same position, only 200 million dollars poorer and stuck with a guy who might already be aging out. I guess there are multivariate factors that contribute to an excellent ball club besides besides expensive free agent pitchers.

            Iv’e already said I wished Cueto had been signed for that 150 million. We’ll see how that plays out. Maybe he falls apart in the next couple of years is a bad contract.

            Hendricks pretty much emerged out of nowhere to be the Cy Young front runner. He was developed talent.

          2. ‘What does Price have to do with their previous championships? Did he help them this year? Is he the reason they were successful this year, or the reason they got bounced in the playoffs? Has the astronomical price paid to him been worth it?’

            Obviously Price had nothing to do with their 3 recent Championships. Of course he helped the team THIS YEAR. He won more games (17) than any LA Dodger pitcher. He pitched more innings (230) than any LA Dodger pitcher. So he had a lot to do with their success.
            Are we really going to go down this path again, regarding astronomical price tags? Without saying anything about Price or anyone else, allow me to ask you a question, Has Kershaw’s astronomical price tag been worth it?

          3. ‘Do the Cardinals owe their recent consistent excellence to going out and signing expensive “stars,” or have they been particularly good at cultivating home grown talent?’

            Of course they have signed FA’s. Just a few over the past 5 years include Carlos Beltran, Lance Berkman, Johnny Peralta, Seung Hwan Oh & Mike Leake. Going back a few more years and can add Chris Carpenter, Jason Isringhausen and David Eckstein. And it was documented that the Cardinals had the highest offer on the table for David Price until the Red Sox stepped in.

            But in reality the Cardinals have traded and/or produced much of their talent. I mention trading cause that is important for filling in needed pieces. Here are some of the players that the Cards have traded for recently…..Holiday, Gyorko, Heyward, Wainwright, Lackey, Rolen, Edmonds. Have probably missed some. And of course most everyone else came up through the farm. You have to trade folks to get folks. Can’t just identify some A or AA talent as the next Wainwright, Holiday or Edmonds. That would be foolish.

            Look at the Cubs. Theo has traded for Rizzo, Russell, Arrieta, Hendricks and Chapman. Signed Zobrist, Heyward, Montero, Lester and Lackey. That’s 10 of their top 20 players. The rest came from the farm. It is the combination that builds good teams. In fact, Theo has now traded twice for Rizzo. So he knew the type of player he could be. Didn’t need some number crunching geeks telling him OPS, SLG, etc.

          4. ‘had the Dodgers signed Greinke they’d be in the same position, only 200 million dollars poorer and stuck with a guy who might already be aging out.’

            So then why did they offer him anything at all? Your statement is contradictory. They offered, we all know that….as it was for 5 years. Don’t make it sound like they ‘were smart’ by not signing Grienke. What they truly weren’t smart about was the fact that he might want or get offer 6 years.
            They had plenty of time to take the money offered to Grienke and sign another high profile pitcher. They chose not to do so. That’s fine but what was the problem all year and again in the playoffs.

            Look they can go the Money Ball route and try and get the best value players BUT by going that route they will never sign star players AND if they were to trade for one they would have to give up a lot of young talent. So, in conclusion get use to not having any star players UNLESS they come up through the organization. I think many of you are getting fooled by how good Seager is and think there are others like him coming. Most prospects (like 98%) are not superstar caliber. And please tell me what is going to happen when Seager’s current team controlled contract is up.

          5. ‘Iv’e already said I wished Cueto had been signed for that 150 million. We’ll see how that plays out. Maybe he falls apart in the next couple of years is a bad contract.’

            Yes, I realize that you have stated that. I’m not disagreeing with your statement. The Dodgers needed someone to fill Grienke’s shoes.

            But just about EVERY big dollar/long term contract will be a bad deal towards the end. Trying to justify a players performance at the end of a 6, 7 or 10 year deal is ludicrous. No one will perform up to their contract. For example will Lester be worth the money he’s going to be getting in 4 years. If the Cubs win the WS, YES! There won’t be one Cubs fan critical of his contract. In fact most would say he is underpaid (if he helps them win a WS this coming week.)

            Epstein is now going to be making $15M per year and they haven’t even won the WS yet. If he wins a couple titles in the next 5 years he’ll be making $25M per year. If we start calculating star players contracts against the GM’s then every star player is under paid compared to what it was just 10 years ago.

    2. Chili

      Yes it was the creme of the crop last year for starting pitching.

      And really Lackey didn’t cost that much, when you think about what Kazmir got.

      I think our GM doesn’t look much farther, then former A’s for some reason.

      Even though some here, kept on saying different, everything in baseball, starts with your pitching rotation.

      Dodger rick, that is for you!

  7. Here’s a visual for you all……..

    Imagine 3 ‘unique’ Porsche 911 Carrera’s being available……a 2015, a 2016 and a 2017. All with a selling price of $100M that’s how unique they are.

    One buyer, Friedman, has $200M to purchase a new Porsche. Another potential buyer, we’ll say Sabean has $150M. Another potential buyer, we’ll say Dombrowski has $120M. The only other potential buyer, Epstien has $100M.

    While Friedman is trying to figure out which of the cars will have the most value in 2 years…..
    Epstein who only has $100M says he’ll take any of the 3. No messing around as he ONLY had $100M and grabbed the 2017 Porsche first.. That then lead Dombrowski to not wait and he hops on the 2016 Porsche. He’ll figure out what to do with the extra $20M, maybe purchase a service plan for the vehicle.

    At this time there is only the 2015 Porsche left. Friedman along with his number crunchers have determined that the 2015 Porsche will have less value in 2 years than the previous 2 vehicles therefore they delay purchasing the 2015. This allows Sabean to step in and purchase the 2015 Porsche, figuring that in a couple of years with the $50M he still has he can put more money into it if needed.

    Friedman then goes home and tells everyone that he was in the bidding on each of the vehicles but those other folks just had way too much money. Is that really how the story played out?

    1. You spent a long-time in concocting that scenario. The simple truth is that Friedman never intended to buy it in the first place, He just wanted to drive up the price for Epstein and Sabean.

      Never spend six paragraphs explaining what 3 sentences can.

      1. It was a take it or leave cost. Friedman left it. No driving up costs. You play that game every single time. You were the one that said that Friedman would never trade prospects, until he did. Then it was alright and ‘those’ guys weren’t any good anyway. I’m not putting up with your double talk.

        You’re the same person that has proposed trading Kershaw and yet giving him a blank check. That’s the way you operate.

        1. If you can read you can go back and read that I purposed trading Kershaw and blowing up the whole team when everyone was lamenting how bad the team was. If you know anything about me, I would NEVER trade Kershaw and would give him a blank check, but if it makes you feel better, go with your narrative. I exist to simply make you feel like a man!

          1. LOL…..I really would not make any statements to the effect of ‘someone feeling like a man.’ Nice try though.

    2. Chili

      That is funny because I read something where Friedman bought a car for his wife, or himself, and it was a story kind of like you just wrote.

      And I am serious about that.

      I just wish I could remember where I read this.

  8. Some here are hopeful for improvement next year but typically pessimistic, I don’t see it. FAZ had just enough success this season to get away with replaying it again next year. And, given their guaranteed $300MM a year for a couple of decades or so from the cable company, I’m not even sure a severe falloff in attendance even would get their attention. I’m afraid we’re stuck with it.

    1. Wondering

      That is why I can’t wait until 2018.

      I don’t want to hear any excuses, we better be as good or better, then the Cubs then.

  9. Timmons and I are exact opposites in every measurable way.

    One of the main ways we are is that I haven’t stalked Badger from website-to-website for 15+ years to get my identity by disagreeing with him.

  10. So Mark finally admits there never was a plan to improve, only to cut costs while playing the fan base for chumps and waiting for the farm system to produce a shiny new team that would contend for the minimum salary. One sentence.

    1. You are putting words in my mouth. They were’t going to spend huge dollar contracts or trade the farm. I said that from Jump Street. They did remain competitive and if there had not been a record number of DL Trips, they might have done even better.

      By the way, they did improve over last year and they have nearly $100 million in DEAD PAYROLL inherited from Uncle Ned!

      1. Mr. Timmons
        Could you please tell me how that “Dead Payroll” that Uncle Ned left breaks down? I can’t seem to find that info. Thank You.

  11. For the record, this was in the Augusta Chronicle :

    “We stay in touch all the time,” Maddon said Friday. “I know his family really well. His mom’s a trip. I really enjoy the whole group. So Andrew and I are very close.”

    Friedman’s move to sunny LA triggered an opt-out clause in Maddon’s contract, and Chicago jumped on the opportunity to put the Pennsylvania native in its dugout. The decision has worked out quite well so far, with the Cubs returning to the NLCS for the second consecutive year for the first time.”

    Kasten would not let Friedman sign Maddon, requiring him to keep Mattingly a year longer. The Trade and this are two reasons I think Kasten is a moron. Of course, we did OK with Roberts…

    1. And I believe those Rays teams accomplished what they did because of Joe Maddon. A manager 2 years removed and they lose 94 games. IF the team/organization was loaded with talent there would not have been a drop off. Should have been a plug and play situation. After all Freidman was there 9 YEARS. No excuses. Maddon leaves and that team falls apart. Both Friedman and Maddon leave at the same time. Who does it appear did a better job in their respective positions?

    2. I think Roberts will be better, because he played Major League Baseball.

      Maddon reminds me of Steve Martin, he thinks he is a groovy guy.

      I think the Indians manager just might out manage Maddon, in this series!

      Maddon has so much more to work with, then Roberts, and the Indians manager have.

  12. Sometimes, it is pure blind luck that you get a player.

    Andrew Toles is a case. So is GRant Dayton. Another case in point: Epstein was all set to trade Ryan Dempster to the Dodgers. According to FOX Sports:

    The pitcher instead wants to be sent to the Los Angeles Dodgers, who were still negotiating with the Cubs as of Tuesday night. The Cubs have asked the Dodgers for a prospect package built around Class AA right-hander Allen Webster, one source said. To this point, the Dodgers have been reluctant to trade Webster or the organization’s No. 1 prospect, righty Zach Lee.

    Dempster, 35, had indicated that the Dodgers were his first choice and the Braves were his second. With the non-waiver deadline still a week away, there is still time for the Cubs and Dodgers to negotiate a suitable trade.

    So, Ned wouldn’t trade Lee or Webster and Theo was fielding other offers when along came the Texas Rangers and offered Kyle Hendrick. Before Dempster was traded to the Rangers, the Cubs and Braves had agreed to a deal where the right-hander would be shipped to Atlanta. But Dempster, who had the right to veto the trade via 12-5 rights exercised that power. He cited trying to do, “what is best for his family” in not accepting the deal to Atlanta. Dempster then remained with Chicago and was therefore able to be traded to the Rangers.

    So, Ned refused to include Zack Lee and Dempster vetoed a deal to Atlanta and Theo had to trade him to Texas for a Class A pitcher named Kyle Hendricks who had a 4.24 ERA in High A at the time.

    was a day that will live forever in Cubs history, though no one had any clue at the time.

    The Cubs, on a West Coast trip to Oakland, Calif., in the summer of 2013, finally dumped wild closer Carlos Marmol on the Dodgers on July 2, setting off mini-celebrations back home.

    But they also made another move that day that didn’t move the needle. In a deal that was greeted with shrugs, they sent starter Scott Feldman and backup catcher Steve Clevenger to the Orioles in a multiplayer trade that brought two struggling pitchers, Jake Arrieta and Pedro Strop.

    Arrieta, then 27, was supposed to be the key, but the Cubs immediately sent him to Triple-A Iowa. The Chicago Tribune stated this:

    The Orioles deal now looks like the most lopsided Cubs trade since Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio in 1964, only this time the Cubs are the ones laughing.

    All along the Cubs knew Arrieta someday would channel his inner Bob Gibson, right?

    “Of course not,” President Theo Epstein said. “He obviously had top-of-the-rotation potential, but we weren’t sure whether he would even command enough to be a starter or would have to go the pen.

    Theo’s mindset is the same as Andrew’s: Acquire as many good arams as possible and hope a few pan out. Luck has a lot to do with it.

    Baez was there before Theo. Theo also paid Jason Heyward $184 million – that was brilliant, wasn’t it? Theo had also made the decision to move on with Dexter Fowler, who was a KEY PART of this year’s championship, but Fowler spurned the Orioles deal to come back. Not Theo’s plan, but it worked out well. There is a lot of luck involved and it helps when you aren’t constrained with staying a winning team.

    Chili, stick to the fiction you write – you ain’t so good with the facts! But you are good at making shit up!

    1. You went a long way just to get to your usual insults. Let me help you say what you’ve said in far fewer words:

      “You’re all full of shit, luck happens, The Trade, 95 wins, Grandal will hit .275, Kershaw will never be traded unless we trade him, FAZ is building an empire that will win it all every year and …. you’re all full of shit.”

      94 wins the year before they got here. 92 wins in their first year. 91 wins their second year. Do we see 90 next year?

      Yeah, yeah I’m a shit eating moron full of shit that makes shit up.

    2. Yeah, when facts get in the way of your agenda, it’s time to resort to ‘luck.’ Everything becomes ‘lucky.’

      Answer this….how many championships have the combination of Friedman and Zaidi won?

      And one more derogatory comment from you and I’m going to post some more facts….ones regarding you.

      Got it? Try me.

  13. I’ve been a reader of this blog for sometime. Like most of you on the this site, I bleed Dodger Blue. I have been a Dodger fan since 1959, when my neighbor took this 8 year old boy to the Los Angeles Coliseum for his first game. Johnny Podres was pitching, Wally Moon hit a moon shot and Don Demeter got a couple of hits, including a double or triple, and he became my instant hero. I appreciate the love that most of you have for the Dodgers. Like many of you, I was disappointed the Dodgers lost, but I have to admit, the Cubs were the better team.

    I thought I would jump in and stir the pot a little bit. Assuming that the Dodgers do not bring back Justin Turner, would any of you aspiring GMs entertain trading Kershaw to the Astros for Alex Bergman, Lance McCullars, Chris Devenski (I played H.S. baseball with his father) and a top pitching prospect?

  14. The great sage has spoken and his words are the only truth posted here…….horse manure. Here is a novel idea, take a few of those so called depth players you have, and our system is loaded with budding wannabees, and trade for a starting pitcher who actually has no injuries and can eat innings. Rick Porcello anyone? Or sign a guy for 1 year and he has a great season, JA Happ………..but that of course is in hind sight, we could not have foreseen those guys having the years they did. But we got just exactly what we expected from McCarthy, Anderson, and the constant flow of flotsam that they kept finding on the waiver wire…..BUPKIS>……I understand their reluctance to gut the farm, and that’s ok. But making the fans watch some of these no talent retreads is cruel and unusual punishment..

  15. I noticed something a bit strange in the WS matchups this year and was wondering if anyone knew the answer to this question:
    When was the last time(if ever) a team traded two closers to two teams only to have them face each other in the WS? I don’t know if that has EVER been done.

  16. Let’s hope that part of this master plan is to build from within (which appears to be the case) and hope that this parade of relief pitchers was just a temporary thing.

    Let the youth movement begin!

    1. This stuff is just THE BRIDGE. I could see FAZ going after two closers this year.

      I am extremely impressed with Julio Urias… some of you aren’t, but I want you to think about this:

      At age 19, Clayton Kershaw was pitching in the minors. He pitched in AA and had a 3.65 ERA there.

      At age 18, Julio was pitching in AA where he had a 3.16 ERA.

      At age 20, Clayton pitched in the majors and went 5-5 with a 4.26 ERA.

      At age 19, Julio pitched in LA and went 5-2 with a 3.39 ERA. He had a better walk/K ration than Clayton. This guy might be a #2 as soon as next year, but certainly the year after. He pitched 122 innings – I think he will come close to 200 next year.

      Walker Buehler is also a #2 waiting to happen. He will likely be limited to less than 150 innings, but I think he makes the team. This guys stuff will blow you away.

      I know many of you were not impressed with JDL, but you will be.

      Then, what about Stewart, Oaks, De Jong, Alvarez, Sheffield, Sborz and others? Dang, they are deep with quality arms.

      Maeda, McCarthy, Kaz and Ryu are also around. I don’t see a place for Rich Hill.

      1. I think just having a sheer number of quality arms just makes the odds of having a kid turn into a Hendricks circa 2016 better. I generally favor the stockpiling of arms.

        You forgot Yadier Alvarez

        It’s good to get that guy before he’s that guy, but the Cubs and the Nats still went out and bought a stud arm. You think you artfully blend some different approaches to build a solid rotation.

        I would like Hill back as that bridge because there’s really not else who can be that solid #2…yet. I’d give Urias another year. He’s just going to be too expensive. He’s the only guy out there with a bunch of teams looking to buy an arm.

  17. At Mark’s old ladodgertalk I remember Hemmorroid Rage and his attacking someone that was very baseball savvy but less so with his English-language-typing skills. He jabbed at many others also, but most commenters then didn’t appreciate Roid’s ‘superiority complex’ remarks at this particular attack. I appreciated not having Rage shortly fallowing that attack because it seemed his primary purpose for his commits wasn’t baseball but rather attacking. I very often talk about things other than baseball and I’ll jab at political issues (like if one votes for either presidential candidate they’re committing treason) and will argue with anyone, but I won’t attack anyone for the sake of attacking. I have my opinions and that’s why I’m here. I can be called names, insults or whatever and not get drawn into any continued battles. That stuff falls off my thick skin pretty easy. All of you are my friends and that’s my reason for being here. Whenever anybody brings up any point I try to the counterpoint even if I don’t voice it. That’s just my nature. It’s not mine for saying any needs to quit their attacks, but I will say that it’s just not a lot of fun (for me anyways) when I think both sides should check themselves. It does matter if my opinion is stupid or even if I’m stupid, I can take it. I’m much more likely to direct insulting at those who attack my friends. I know what a dangerous life is and it isn’t behind a keyboard.

    1. Well said….unfortunately there are some on here who’s modus operandi is to try and belittle……..

  18. Getting to the postseason 4 x in a row and losing doesn’t do it for me. It’s a failure, not a success. The DL infestation was brought on by Friedman’s incompetence in the FA market. Excuse me if I’m not too excited about 2017. Hoping McCarthy, Ryu and Kazmir are healthy doesn’t give me much hope. Two of the better Dodger players are UFAs and will probably go. AGonz looks old, Pederson and Grandal strike out way too much for my taste, and they don’t have a second baseman.

    1. The good thing is that the Dodgers can sign whoever they want.

      The bad news is that they are not going to make any dope-fiend unsustainable moves.

      Justin Turner will be 33 next November. A 4-year deal at $75 million put him at age 37 at the end. I might do that, but some dope-fiend GM might do a lot more…

      Friedman is trying to do the same thing the Cubs did: Get THAT guy BEFORE he is that guy. The guys you guys want are old news and cost too much. Get Arrietta, Kendrick, Russell and Rizzo BEFORE they are that guy. That’s what FAZ is trying to do.

      What is frustrating to me is people who complain about FAZ’s refusal to go after expensive Free Agents when even Ray Charles can see that is the plan. It’s the ONLY sustainable way to build a team.

      1. The problem is FAZ has wasted enough money on (multiple) bad (injured) players that he really could have signed a couple of good ones instead. Which is worth more, Ray Charles, a couple of nice fresh eggs, or a whole carton of rotten ones?

        1. People keep on making that argument. Stop with Anderson. He really was only supposed to be here a year at that 10 mil for back of the rotation help. He was a beat down stock that the equity managers saw was potentially undervalued and, for that first year, it worked. Nothing wrong with the Anderson signing in 15. I just didn’t think the FO thought he was going to accept the QO, and when he did it was, “meh…oh well! We got some depth I guess.” It’s not like they signed him expecting him to be the linchpin of the rotation.

          McCarthy and his 12 mil a year is really not that big a deal breaker…..certainly not like CC’s 20 mil, or Brian Wilson’s 10. He still has two years to produce value.

          News Flash…..moves don’t always work out. Better to limit your exposure to when they don’t.

          1. Dodger Patch

            McCarthy not pitching in the first and second year of his contract, along with Anderson, cost the Dodgers 40 million dollars.

          2. In that case they have been seriously over exposed………..The list is endless………Peralta, Hatcher, Tepesch, Norris, they are just the tip o the iceberg…….you could get typist cramp listing all the busts……McCarthy and Anderson make the list because they are 2 of the most obvious blunders….

      2. But there are growing pains. Before he becomes that guy:
        1. he drops a fly ball in LF
        2. he makes an awful error at 2B

        Maybe one day they will be great players OR they may get released.

    2. Gonzo did ok for a guy his age. He has lost some power, but his fielding was good as ever and he saved some errors with his glove. They have 2 second basemen in reality. And the down side is all are very average or a little below. Kike sucked, but is listed as an OF where he also sucks, and he really sucks at the plate. Kendrick regressed and I think a lot of that was not playing every day, but the lack of a true leadoff hitter forced Utley into the lineup, but he faded bad at the end. Barnes, Kendrick, Kike, and Johnson are all 2B. And Taylor can play there too, and Calhoun is on the horizon. They will most likely let Utley walk, and insert Toles at leadoff, But they have more holes than they know what to do with. A lot of depth, but the quality of that depth is the bigger question

    1. I agree with a lot of what he says (in a vacuum), but does that mean to give Kenley or Turner WHATEVER?

      What if another team falls in love with them and wants them at any cost (like Greinke?)… then what? Let them go and trade back for them? That’s dumb!

      5 more years of Greinke is dumb too… unless it’st at $25 mil a year.

      Braun is probably a 20-25 HR guy in LA and at 33 he is owed approx $100 million until age 37. How about Puig, A-Gon (and $20 million), Stewart and Maeda for Braun. Braun used to play 3B – move him to 1B.

      1. Probably hoping both Turner and Jansen would give hometown discounts. After all Jansen would probably not even be around if they had not converted him from catcher, and the Dodgers gave Turner opportunity to show what he can do.. They have been negotiating with Turners agents, but I think Jansen goes after the big bucks. Puig will most likely be dealt……to whom, who knows…

          1. Yes they did, and he took that opportunity and now the entire baseball community knows what kind of a player he is. Unfortunately for him, he is now over 30. But he will get a lot of money this off season from someone that is for sure. Dodgers do not have a backup plan unless the plan to use Taylor at SS and move Corey to 3rd until Lux is ready…

          2. Guy, when Kenley, Turner, Seager, Kershaw or anyone else has a drop off in performance, the Dodgers will boot their ass out with no hesitation. The players owe the clubs nothing, they should go where the money is. IT IS A BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!

  19. Just read Buster Olney’s Insider on ESPN about Dodger concerns going into the off season. Seems it is not all peaches and cream in the club house after all as many veterans questioning the strategy of the FO, and how they believe some personnel decisions are based on small bits of data…..and they are just expected to roll with the FO’s flow and be good with it,.,…Interesting stuff..

  20. I am remembering that the Los Angeles Dodgers of 2016 had a much better season than a whole bunch of other major league teams. Heck only 2 teams are playing longer. So 27 other teams are eating our dust.

    But as the dust clears — what do we see, 27 other teams preparing to make their moves for 2017.

    The problem or concern here, is that many of us do not have confidence in the leaders of the Dodgers that make these decesions — the GM and staff. They just seem to love: injured players, a few older players, and some players that not even the Commissioner’s Office is sure about (just kidding).

    OK – first job — name the untouchables on the 40 man roster. Just who HAST to stay? Now the rest are up for trades.

    1. Kershaw, Urias, Seager, anybody else is expendable….oh, and Pederson…….Joc is going to bust out next year……30 dingers…..just watch…..and the commissioners office does not know who some of those guys were……..

        1. You have to have patience with him….he is only a second year player. And he was much better in the second half. He improved, just check his stats. He was one of the few guys on the team with a .300 average in September……Does he revert sometimes? Yes, but he will improve and he is still the best OF on the team…

  21. Holy Crap! I can’t wait for the Hot Stove League to begin. It’s going to be nothing but fighting. Mark calling someone names and then Badger going out of his way to look for a fight with Mark while asking Mark to stop calling people names.

    I watched the Friedman-Roberts press conference with the fans comments underneath. Made me more thankful that baseball people run the team and not us fans. Damn, a lot of stupid suggestions based on losing a 6 game series to the heavy favorites to win it all.

    I believe the Dodgers will go hard after Turner and Jansen and get it done. This thought that the Dodgers won’t sign people to big deals is nonsense. They offered Greinke $155 million and even offered to trade for him and take on $25 million a year. Rich Hill will jump at the chance to sign with Boston if they want him. If not, maybe two year deal in LA if he wants to play for a contender.

    For years, everyone wined about not having a farm system. Wah, Wah, why can’t we be like the Cardinals? Now that we finally have a farm system it’s wah wah, why can’t we sign everyone and trade all of our minor leaguers. Winning the NL West four years in a row is tough to do. Cripes the Cubs haven’t won in 108 years. Of course I want more. I walk out the door in Iowa City and everyone knows me as the guy around town wearning Colts and Dodgers gear all the time not the Midwest teams. So, believe me I hear from people. Next year might suck and it’s going to be a long-cold winter if the Cubs win, but many Dodgers fans sound like big babies right now.

    FAZ has made mistakes. Coletti made mistakes. I like Dave Roberts. I think Friedman and Co will do what they can to put a winner on the field next year but not at the expense of Urias, Buehler, Alvarez, and Bellinger. And the turning on Clayton makes me want to puke. People want to compare him to Peyton Manning. If that’s the case then we will win a crap ton of division titles, 4 NL pennants, and 2 World Series titles before he’s done. I’ll take that. Go Tribe!

    1. Hawkeye

      Last year was the Cubs first year, in a long time, that they made the post season.

      And now the second time, they already made it to the World Series.

      The Dodgers now have an ominous record, wining our division four times, and not making the World Series.

      1. Why is that ominous? The end of the McCourt years were ominous. The Fox years were ominous. Old-time Dodgers fans remember losing to the Yankees every year. Losing to Reggie Jackson two years in a row about killed me, but it was sweet to beat him in 1981. Would you really prefer to tank and trade everyone off with the hopes of winning it all like the Cubs did? Many have tried that strategy and failed. You never know what’s going to happen next year. The Mets had the greatest young pitching staff assembled in a long time just a year ago. They finished the season with Thor and a bunch of crap. Two years ago, the Nationals were supposed to be on easy street all the way to the title.

        1. Hawkeyes

          What am saying is that it is harder to keep on going, but not make it.

          The Cubs did it in two trys.

          Most people were not alive 100 years ago.

          These Cubs players, haven’t been waiting that long.

          We don’t want to end up being like the Braves, who went many times, and only won it all, once.

          And because it has been so long, we would even be happy to win it once right now.

          We have had to watch our biggest rivals, win three times lately.

          And the Cardinals and the Cubs are not the same.

        2. Hawkeyes

          I remember losing to the A’s the first time, and that was ok, because they were a monster team then, and our team was just bonding before that.

          I hated losing that series because of bad umpiring and Jackson cheating too.

          And just like then, I still feel the Dodgers are always having to fight the world to get anywhere, just like in game four when Agone wasn’t called safe.

          I’m so sick about hearing about the Cubs!

          1. Jackson was with the Yankees when he stuck his hip in front of the ball on the relay that should have been a DP, not the A’s. You got the 74 series mixed up with 78…

        1. Michael

          I know that, and I thought that was a given, after Hawk mentioned the Yankees.

          When I was young I was a big Fergie fan.

          Remember Fergie made that great throw in front of the Toy Cannon.

          I can hear Cosell calling that play now.

          Reggie has already admitted to doing that on purpose.

          I am a little younger, so I started loving the Dodgers in the early 70s, with my dad, and maybe even before, because I know I knew who Sandy Koufax was, when I was five or six years old.

          My dad always said he was a Giants fan.

          I don’t know if that is true, or he just liked to tease me.

          The first game he took me to at Dodger stadium, was to see Bob Gibson pitch, at the end of his career.

          My dad was the typical father then, who always had Vinny on the radio, when he was out in th garage doing something.

          And you know those teams started out young, and it seemed like they never had trouble hitting, like these current teams.

        2. Michael

          I know that, but we have done this four years in a row, and that was a record.

          And now we have another record, about not making it to the World Series, after winning the west four years, in a row.

          1. Yes, but remember how many times the Braves won the east? Something like 13 consecutive titles, and only 1 World Series ring to show for it. I think that record is safe, and it is hard to make it all the way to the big dance. Originally you had to beat 7 teams to get there. Now you have to go through two playoff series. 11 extra games to win the title. A lot harder than just 4. And in the 70’s It was just the east vs the west, so best of 5 and you were in.

    2. Who says “we” have a farm system?

      The folks at Baseball Prospectus, who promised Andruw Jones would
      be a great power acquisition?:-)

      I’m thinkin’ if “we” had a farm system, maybe Kike wouldn’t have been
      doin’ his brilliant steal-prevention dance against Lester, and other assorted
      sub-.200 tricks. I’m thinkin’ if “we” had a farm system, maybe Chooch
      wouldn’t have had to hit cleanup facing a guy he was zip for a lifetime

      If the kid Barnes turned out to be half what the Jolly Green Optimist
      promised he would be the day of the trade (along with glowing predictions
      about Kike and Chris Hatcher – oh, my!), “we” wouldn’t even have had to
      trade for Chooch!

      Go back, if you’re inclined, to see how the Brewer farm system was rated
      thru the eighties, and tell me how many prizes that team won that decade.
      Go back, more recently, to 2010, 2012, and 2014, and tell me how highly
      the Giants’ system was rated.

      The bloviating about the farm system is just historically unreliable noise,
      UNTIL proven otherwise. Even all the stuff about the Cubs right now is
      more than a little off the Mark (see what I did?:-) – go over that team.
      position by position, and tell me how many of those guys were Cubs
      from draft day on….

      Theo and Co have done a whale of a job acquiring other system’s players.
      Andy and Co, so far, have done pedestrian work at the same task.
      If they don’t become better traders, and better evaluators of real,
      on-field players who can do the work in October’s big moments (as well
      as bunt and run the bases like people actually paid huge bucks to do so),
      all our collective jabber is in vain….and Stan Kasten will continue to
      be the King of Almost.

      1. Fair enough. When new ownership took over, what there was in the minors was all at the lower levels. I think few have the starting pitching in the minors that the Dodgers do right now. The Dodgers didn’t trust Ned to handle anymore deals that may blow up the talent that they were acquiring in the minors. Now it is up to Freidman and Co. to figure out how to use the assets.

        Gordon trade is a fail at this point. No doubt about it, but we shall see how PED free DEE does. I hated moving Montas in the Oakland deal but they did acquire the best pitcher on the marked. The team didn’t have enough bullets to get it done without shutouts from Kershaw and Hill. The ball is in their court now. FAZ will have to do better this offseason. I fully expect Braun or Cespedes to be a Dodger. They can’t rely on SVS and Kike to fix their woes against lefties.

    3. Nobody said anything about trading ALL our prospects, what was said was that not all of them are going to contribute to this particular team. It has long been felt that they would have had to give up Seager, Pederson and Urias to land Hamels, but considering what Texas gave up, that was not the case….He could have been had for less.

  22. Joc was my guy. Loved the baseball in him. But as THIS season wore on, he kept getting bad habits approaching hitting. Sometimes, as I remember, even swinging at the dirt — for strike 3 –. heck, he took to many pitches right down the middle, then a foul, then swing at the dirt. Then talk to the ump like the ump was uncle ump and back to the bench.

    People yelling, choke up, just put the ball in play. And sometimes he did. He just has not been a smart hitter.

    1. …and that’s why, by rough estimate, in spite of all his improvement,
      he still had maybe half of the twenty worst MLB at-bats I happened
      to see this year. And I don’t think he’s a great asset in center, especially
      going back…(he’s fine coming in).

  23. Excellent triology of posts, HawkeyeDodger. Agree, on 99%. Not sure about Braun or Cespedes in Dodger Blue. But possible.

    I believe MLB is a business first, billionaires competing against billionaires in the MLB baseball business. Dodgers cannot compete effectively against other billion dollar organizations when their payroll cost is 50% higher than the competition. Dodgers need to re-set luxury tax rate AND be able to do some shopping AFTER 2018 season. I believe it is a HUGE organizational goal to get under luxury tax threshold (approx $190M) during 2017 or 2018 seasons.

    While it is getting better, unfortunately, FAZ starts 2017 with Gonzalez $22M, Ethier, $18M, Puig, $8M, Ryu, $8M, Crawford, $22M, Guerrero, $8M, Kemp, $4M and Arruebarrena, $6M. total $96M (All NED contracts). Add in Kershaw, $36M, Kazmir, $18M, McCarthy, $12M, Kendrick, $10M, another $76M. Total for 2017 $172M.

    2018, Gonzalez, $22M, Puig, $9M, Ryu, $8, Kemp, $4, total $43M. Add in Kershaw, $36M, Kazmir, $18M, McCarthy, $12M, another $66M. Total for 2018 $109M.

    Looking objectively, FAZ is going to have to spend very wisely to fill out the roster and remain under luxury tax threshold in 2018. Where do you put your money? I have my thoughts, how about you?

    I will say, I am hoping to hear that 6′ 4 “, 205 lb, Right hand hitting, 2nd baseman, 23 yr old Lourdes Gourriel is a stud and signing with the Dodgers with an expected arrival in MLB during 2017 season. I know we are scouting him.

    1. Missed Arruebarrena on 2018 salaries, another $6M. And Olivera $5M both years.

      New 2017 total, $177M.

      New 2018 total, $120M.

      I also didn’t put Maeda in, don’t know what his salary really is.

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