Thursday, June 20, 2024
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Snail Pace Hot Stove and other Tidbits

The hot stove has started and predictably the Dodgers are in on every rumor under the sun. We all know that Kenley Jansen and Justin Turner are free agents. I feel with each passing day another team can get in there and take them away just like with Zack Greinke. Baseball can be a fluid sport and next season a new team could rise up. The Cleveland Indians rose up this season.

The Dodgers window to win maybe closing. Now is not the time to stand pat and let free agents go. When you have a season in which you were two games away from the World Series. You have to follow that up and make the necessary moves to get over the hump. Nothing is guaranteed and next season can be a whole different story. We can’t rely on depth of injured pitchers to get us through next season.

A couple of things are going on currently. The arbitration process is one and these are the current players in that process:

Yasmani Grandal (4.115) – $5.3MM Louis Coleman (4.018) – $1.5MM Luis Avilan (3.146) – $1.5MM Scott Van Slyke (3.151) – $1.3MM Chris Hatcher (3.146) – $1.4MM Alex Wood (3.123) – $2.0MM Josh Fields (3.092) – $1.2MM Vidal Nuno (3.015) – $1.1MM

So we will see what the Dodgers do with this. The Rule 5 draft is also coming. Players become eligible for the Rule 5 Draft if they were:

  • Signed at age 19 or older and have been in the organization for four years.
  • Signed at age 18 or younger and have been in the organization for five years.

These players are eligible for the rule 5 draft.

Oklahoma City Dodgers:

Tulsa Drillers:

Who would you want to protect in this group? The CBA is set to expire December 1st. If an agreement isn’t reached, then we could be on our way to a lockout. This is probably why the hot stove hasn’t heated up. Though all sides involved in the CBA feel an agreement will be reached. One of the things to look out for is improving the pace of play. What do you think can be done?

I feel an agreement will be reached before the winter meetings which begin on December 4th. Then you will see players get signed and trades commence. Things will get exciting. Beyond resigning Turner and Jansen and maybe Rich Hill. Who do you think the Dodgers should go after and trade for? I can’t wait till it starts.

James Moya

Hi I’m James Moya. I am an avid Dodgers fan. I graduated Cal State Fullerton with a Bachelors in Communications. I used to freelance at the San Bernardino Sun. I’m excited about this opportunity to write for LA Dodger Report to gain experience. I’m a straight shooter on my opinions and I hope to get some good conversations going. My dream has always been to report on the Dodgers because Baseball is the National Past-time. I hope you enjoy the ride with me.

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James Moya
Hi I’m James Moya. I am an avid Dodgers fan. I graduated Cal State Fullerton with a Bachelors in Communications. I used to freelance at the San Bernardino Sun. I’m excited about this opportunity to write for LA Dodger Report to gain experience. I’m a straight shooter on my opinions and I hope to get some good conversations going. My dream has always been to report on the Dodgers because Baseball is the National Past-time. I hope you enjoy the ride with me.

136 thoughts on “Snail Pace Hot Stove and other Tidbits

  1. Just like Zack G., Jansen will be overwhelmed by monopoly money…. (Z.G. wasn’t taken away, he ran with $206MM)…The cost of JT is going up and probably go beyond his worth… Hill the same… I’d like JT and Hill, but we’ll see… Someone out there is gonna pull the trigger on a trade and maybe the gates open!??!

  2. Smoke and mirrors damn near worked the last two years, so with a goal of lowering payroll still at the top of the list, smoke and mirrors take three will be what you get in 2017.

    That’s what I expect. Hopefully we won’t do more 3 top prospect trades for rentals. If you’re going to trade top prospects do it for difference makers.

    It’s my opinion trading for Sale while losing Turner and Jansen won’t work. It won’t be enough. One step forward two steps back. Even though this team made it the NLCS the idea of passing the Cubs while lowering payroll next year seems rather unrealistic. This is likely to take some time.

    1. Badger

      You would think that Turners and Kenley’s contracts, won’t be the top of the free agent class like a Greinke, so in the long run, it would be better to sign them, and keep our prospects.

      I can see Kenley closing for another five years, he is only 29 and he is built, and he throws only that one pitch.

      And even if Turner is signed for four years, he will be good at least three more years, if not the entire time, of his contract.

      His injury problem, was fixed, when he had that surgery last year, in the off season.

  3. It’s true FA signings and trades may be moving at a snails pace(only 6 of the top 50 FA have been signed) but things are sure to heat up very soon.

  4. There is also talk that if the powers to be do not have a new CBA, the owners may institute a lockout. Their seems to be a lot of issues to be resolved and that both sides seem to be at an impasse.

  5. The Dodgers have no one close to Turner in there organization, and although most free agent contracts seem elaborate, Turner has things working against him, so he isn’t going to get anything that is in the class of Greinke.

    And why trade these prospects that the front office has been hoarding, to get someone else, to play third, when Turner can be signed with money.

    They are not going to get a player close to the way Turner hits, and plays defense, without, giving up to many good prospects.

    And Turner is one of the leaders on this team, and he was one of the players, that helped the team be more gritty, so they better sign him.

    And about Kenley, the Dodgers have no one in there system that can take Kenley’s place either.

    And although part of the regular season Kenley did lose some saves, he has been what is right with the bullpen, in the last four years.

    He is probably the best all around closer in this group of closers, and the pitch he throws, is a rarity in baseball right now.

    But the other pitcher who used this same pitch, held up really well, and preformed well, and continued to be a good closer, even at the end of his career.

    So Kenley is not going to be a huge risk, in a multi year contract, for the team.

    But I do understand if Kenley’s contract negotions get to outrageous, that they may not be able to sign him, so they better be prepared to make another deal, if that happens.

    They have so many bodies in that front office, that they better not wait to long this time, and they better have a back up plan too.

    Because last year when they were trying to sign pitchers, for the starting rotation, they were not able to sign there first choice.

    And because of that, they were left with only a few options, and they ended up having to sign Kazmir, to a multi year context.

    And if they can give Kazmir 16 million a year, they can certainly give Turner, and Kenley, a contract, that matches or is more per year, then they gave Kazmir.

    Because both Turner and Kenley, are younger then Kazmir, and they have out performed Kazmir too.

    And to all of the the people here, that are not bothered by the contract that the front office gave Kazmir.

    They should be advocating that the front office, should sign both Turner and Kenley, because they won’t be asking much more per year, then Kazmir was given.

    And Kenley and Turner, have already been valuble members of this team.

    And what they contribute to this team, would be badly missed, if they are not signed.

      1. I’m on a break from chopping wood.

        MJ – I think to find another third baseman like Turner would cost prospects and salary. The Dodgers will re-sign Justin Turner. Jansen will cash in elsewhere.

        Back to work. Beautiful day out.

        1. But Badger don’t chop wood, do they?

          Have a wonderful day anyways!

          I just think it is so dumb to say that they are going to over pay for these guys, when they are paying Kazmir 16 million a year.

          Now that is an over pay!

          1. MJ, Happy Thanksgiving first of all, but yes, Kazmir and Mccarthy are way way overpaid, especially since they were an example of Dodgers using band aids on broken legs and hoping for some miracle.

    1. The Winter meetings will be busy for sure but let’s first hope they don’t get to a point of a lockout. Baseball has been adamant at getting back the younger generation into baseball and a prolonged lockout of any kind will turn them and many baseball fans away from the game.

  6. Happy Thanksgiving to all on LA Dodger Report. As we go forward feel free to call me by my first name which is Paul.
    Agree here there is a ‘to do list’ if dodgers expect to compete, and in no way is this the time to just stand pat and think that damaged goods such as Kazmir and Mccarthy or even Ryu will be ready to compete for the 2017 season in its entirety. Turner and Jansen must be signed, because if Dodgers let them walk to the Giants, that will be a season changer and Dodgers won’t be seen near top of Division anytime soon. A # 2 SP and some guys who can hit LHP are also a must.

    1. I just read that on MLBTR and it looks like that is what they are doing. No way in the world do Dodgers give up a high prospect or 2 for a guy who is not good defensively in the OF AND can walk away as a FA after the 2017 season!

  7. Asking prices are the starting point. They’ll take 75 cents on those dollars – if they really want to move them.

    1. Badger

      I read some comments, and they said the price of war is now 8.5 million.

      I know you and Rick were speculating on the price of war the other day, so I thought of you, when I saw this.

      1. “The price is WAR is $8.5 million?”

        Averages are misleading. Put one foot in ice water and the other in boiling water and let me know what the average is?

        The Dodgers paid $18 million to Andre for ZERO WAR.

        The Red Sox paid $555,000 to Mookie Betts for 9.6 WAR.

        Averages include what the Dumbasses like the Dodgers pay.

        If you think you have pay $8.5 million for 1 WAR, then Mookie Betts was worth $81.6 million last year.

        That is just plain stupid!

        If you an idiot GM, you pay that for WAR. Otherwise, you try other stuff!

        1. Mark

          Firstly I am just delivering some info.

          Secondly you know that Mookie is a young player, and has only played two years in the majors.

          And because of that, he hasn’t been a free agent.

          And Ethier is a seasoned veteran player, that was hurt in a freak way last year, and that is why his war was so low.

          Unlike the freak incidents, that the front office tried to explain why they signed Anderson for.

          Accidents with Anderson, are not a few incidents, it almost happens, everytime, he has to cover first base.

          And Ethier doesn’t have a long injury history in his career.

          You know the Dodger’s new owners, wanted Colletti to sign Ethier, because they wanted to bring the Dodgers fans, back to the team, after the former owner, chased them away.

          And Ethier was a long time Dodger player.

          And what Kazmir is getting yearly, is no average.

          I just don’t understand why you defended and insisted that Turner was no utility player, when some here, thought he was only an utility player.

          And I agree about Turner, but now you are saying that Turner is going to get to much.

          When most of Turner’s yearly quotes, are about 20 million a year, and that is only 4 million dollars less, then Kazmir is getting paid.

          I think Turner is worth more then Kazmir is, for a year, and Turner has already played really well for this team, unlike Kazmir.

          And I actually feel Kenley is worth more then Kazmir too.

          But I will understand, if Kenley asks for to much, and the front office doesn’t sign him, but they better be prepared if this happens, and they better get another closer.

          And I think you agree about Kazmir, or you wouldn’t be trading him, in your own scenarios.

          And I don’t think Badger is making these war numbers up, because I have read articles, that value players this way.

          I don’t know what Mookie should make next year, but I won’t be suprised if the Red Sox, sign him to a lengthy contract, to buy out some of his free agent years, like the Angels did with Trout.

          Mookie should have been the American MVP.

          His numbers were very close to Trouts.

          Trout only won, because he had more walks.

          Mookie made these stats, during a penant race, unlike

          And Trout got a lot of walks, because he really didn’t have much protection in the line up, unlike Mookie.

          1. That is suppose to be four million more.

            And Mark why are you getting all up in arms, about war?

            I bet our GM believes in war.

            And you know most of us, are not convinced, that every saber metric measure, is a true measure.

          2. Trout is by far and away a better player than Betts. He’s arguably on track to be the best player ever.

            The point isn’t that Betts did what he did during a pennant race. In many ways Trout’s performance with nothing to play for is equally an intangible measure. To me, the point is replace Betts with Trout for the Red Sox, does anyone doubt his numbers in that situation wouldn’t be better than Mookie’s?

  8. Nobody is going to pay Turner $40 million per year. (Btw, happy birthday Justin. He’s now 32.) I just use that Cost per WAR as a barometer of contracts for free agents going up. Turner, at age 31 put up 35% of his 8 year career 13.9 total WAR in a contract year. He now enters what, in a majority of players, what will be his descending years. What is the likelihood he will repeat a 4.9 WAR year after becoming a fat cat? So what is he worth? Beats me.

    The fact that this was coming and the Dodgers didn’t plan for it is aggravating. Your 31 year old third baseman is in a contract year you should have Brooks Schmidt in the pipeline. It’s covered in 2020 when Lux takes over at short, so Turner for 3 years might work. But he could cost $20 a year. We ready to pay that? Or do we go into a holding pattern? Hellifino. Guess we’ll see soon enough.

    1. Badger

      At least Turner is a versatile player, so we can move him, in that fourth year, if we need to, or he will once again, be a utility player.

  9. I’ve never been a fan of average cost of WAR either. Your young players play for $500K/year which skews any kind of average. If you want to figure out what veteran players cost that might make more sense. You also get the kind of absurd number when you pay a guy $17.5MM like Ethier and he’s out all year.

    The other reason that this stat doesn’t mean much to me is that if you get a 1 WAR player for $1.00, you’re a genius I guess, but a team of 1 WAR players won’t win many games. You have to get a lot of players with a lot of WAR to win.

    This is the problem of building a team of pitchers who are “depth”. Kazmir put together a season of .2 WAR (#3 starter by innings); Stripling .6 WAR, Urias 1.0 WAR, McCarty -.2 WAR, Bud Norris -.9 WAR, Anderson -.8 WAR, Wood .3, Hill 1.3. Essentially, all non-Kershaw and Maeda starters had altogether 1.5 WAR. Our eyes told us this was true all year long.

    Finally, you could have 3 10 WAR outfielders but if you have a rotation of 5 zero WAR pitchers you will still lose. You have to build a TEAM – not a bunch of WAR.

    1. After saying all that, how do you explain Dodgers getting within two wins from World Series?

      Seems like FAZ built a TEAM – not a bunch of WAR. Agree?

      1. Not really. I’ve been a Dodger fan since 1965. (I saw my 1st game in 1959 but was too young to remember.) Since the team has been in LA, when they have been successful they have had very good to great starting pitching. The numbers above demonstrate what our eyes told us – they didn’t have good starting pitching in 2016.

        There have been good teams that have won on offense alone, but not in LA and anyway, the Dodgers offense was OK but not great.

        IN short, they built a rotation on the cheap with the old and infirm and hoped that, like an old jalopy, it would somehow get to the finish line. It didn’t.

  10. Now that Mark is all up in arms about war, wasn’t that the way that fangraphs, based the best teams on?

    And those two top teams, were the Dodgers, and the Cubs!

  11. I’ve finally recovered (enough) from the postseason to weigh in.

    I think there is a lot of ways to get into the postseason. The FAZ way isn’t the only way or even (in my opinion) the best way. Neither is Theo’s way. Old school or new school both work.

    But in the post-season, I am persuaded now that the old school thinking of just having multiple aces no longer works. The hitters are too good and the aces wear out. I think you need a great balanced bullpen (this doesn’t mean a bunch of closers because you don’t know how they do from year to year). A bullpen that can win the games started by the non-aces.

    Missing out on Chapman cost us the WS. That’s on FAZ.

    Going forward I wouldn’t pay too much for either Kenley or Turner. We missed our chance. We will have to luck into another situation where we have a top reliever on a short contract with a chance to land another top reliever like Chapman. That is not this offseason. Or next.

    So I think we are screwed. Get ready for some bad contracts and some desperation moves, and the FAZ won’t be here by 2018.

    (Ok maybe I’m not totally over the post-season ….)

    1. Missing out on Chapman was the right move! Morality and ethics count.

      Be optimistic. It’s one of the highest regarded front offices in baseball. And a big payroll.

      It’ll turn out just fine.

      1. Agree with you on Chapman.

        I wonder about the basis for your optimism though. Most fans are optimistic because
        they like their team
        they like the players
        they hope for some better players next year
        they hope for better luck next year

        I fear that you are another Friedman fanboy – “I love the Dodgers – they have the coolest front office ever!”

        I didn’t root for Ned Colletti or Al Campanis or Fred Claire. I won’t root for Friedman et al either.

        I root for the Dodgers.

        1. The basis for my team is I like a front office who is/are smart and have a plan.
          I quite like the players, and I hope the players get better next year.

          Not going to hope for luck, because that seems silly.

  12. price of tickets are suppose to go up 22% AND SO is parking. so they keep paying these guy so much …i mean the fans are paying for there living… cant watch on tv.. . so i will never go to a game again…

  13. All I can say is, I’ve seen enough to predict that we’ll end up with 1-2 Reddick equivalents, except this time it’ll be in our pitching (bullpen in particular).

    I’d rather they make zero moves and let the youngsters play, but the FAZ will make some panic moves. Count on it. Big market pressure will get to them.

    I watch and follow a lot of sports ad franchises. It’s the “on the cusp” years that can do the most damage. We have a couple coming up ….

  14. Let’s not forget WHY FAZ signed those infirm pitchers: they did it to build a bridge to the kids so that the kids would not be blocked by a Cueto, Greinke or Price-type deal. Anderson is off the books. DONE! His first year was a great deal. Last year was horrid…. but he’s done now. In my opinion, it was a good move even if it didn’t work in year two because there is no long-term financial commitment.

    Brandon McCarthy is owed $11.5 million over the next two years. Based upon what pitchers are getting, I think that is a good risk. He gave us nothing the first two years, but I think we will get something this year or trade him – he’s tradable. I’ll tell you what I think – if we have enough starters, I would use Mac like the Indians used Andrew Miller. Maybe he pitches 100-120 innings. He has exceptional stuff and harnessed it when he got out of AZ. I still like him.

    Kazmir is still a solid pitcher and I could see the Dodgers trading him and let’s say Ross Stripling and Kike Hernandez to the Pirates for David Freeze and Josh Harrison. Both mash LH pitching! That is Plan B, if Turner can’t be signed. Freeze is a guy who will hit .260-.270 with 12-15 HR and 50-60 RBI. He is owed $16.5 million over 3 years. Harrison is owed $19 million over 3 years with two options. He could be coming into his prime. I would expect him to perform better, but he’s performed pretty good. The Pirates have plenty of replacements for them, but need pitching.

    The game is changing. Teams are using their bullpens more and longer. I wonder if Alex Wood could also be a pitcher who pitches around 100 innings out of the pen?

    1. Kershaw
    2. Urias
    3. Maeda
    4. De Leon
    5. Ryu or Stewart or Buehler (the one you start with may not be the one you end with)

    Buehler and De Leon have #2 stuff. De Leon had ankle issues all year which slowed his progress – if healthy, you will be impressed. Buehler should be ready for 130-150 innings next year. De Leon – the same. Maybe we have Kershaw and 4 guys who pitch 150 innings?

    I am of the mind to let Jansen, Hill and Turner walk. Sign Sean Rodriguez to boot. He also kills lefties.

    Here’s my lineup:

    1. Toles LF
    2. Harrison 2B
    3. Seager SS
    4. Gonzo/Rodriguez 1B (I think you would get a .300 BA/30 HR and 120 RBI from that combo)
    5. Freeze 3B
    6. Thompson/Ethier RF (30+ HR here too)
    7. Grandal C
    8. Pederson CF (If he continues to improve, move him up in the lineup. If not he’s a good piece).

    More speed at the top of the lineup and much better balance against LH pitching with Freeze, Harrison, Rodriguez and Thompson. I trade Puig to the AL for two good prospects, so that he can’t come back and bite us. I am done waiting…. It’s time to move on.

    Who closes? Tryouts in Spring unless Melancon is available for a 3 year/$36 million deal.

    And… I am not “up in arms about WAR!” I just find it ridiculous to overpay older players. Get younger and the WAR is dramatically cheaper.

    I like that plan… of course I like all my plans, but I think this one is closer to fact than fiction.

    1. If the Dodgers didn’t do anything more I think they could cobble a team together that would be better than the team you put together Mark.

      C Grandal, Barnes
      P Kershaw, Maeda, Urias, McCarthy, Stewart, De Leon, Kazmir
      1B Gonzales, Ruf
      2B Toles, Hernandez, Taylor, Calhoun
      3B Puig, Segedin
      SS Seager, Culbertson
      LF Thompson, Toles
      CF Pederson, Thompson
      RF Toles, Ethier, Puig, Segedin

      R Dayton, Stripling, Liberatore, Garcia, Baez, Wood, Rhame, Ravin, Fields, Avilan……

    2. Mark

      The choices were not only Cueto, Greinke, or McCarthy, and Anderson.

      There were other pitchers out there, that the front office could have signed, that didn’t cost as much as top tier pitcher, and didn’t have long injury histories.

      And Harrison and Freeze, didn’t even have twenty HRs, between them, and Freeze is not that good defensively at third.

      Rodriquez had a good year last year, in his free agent year, but most of his career, he hadn’t been that good.

      And why does a big market team like the Dodgers, have to settle for these players, that are nothing more then role players, that are mostly average.

      I understand why the Pirates do, because they are a small market team.

      We have to many utility players, as it is.

      Turner is twice the player, then any of these role playing Pirates, and Turner won’t cost a bunch of prospects.

      Turner also brings a leadership role to the team, and has been good since he joined the team.

      This is why some here, claim the Dodgers are turning into the A’s, or Rays.

    3. Mark

      McCarthy gets paid 10 million a year, and he has two more years left on his contract, so he is owed 20 million dollars.

  15. Does anyone know if there is truth to this rumor?

    “According to ESPN, a proposed MLB trade deal is being suggested between the Chicago White Sox and Los Angeles Dodgers. Trade scenario is saying that the White Sox will send left-hand pitcher Chris Sale and right-hand pitcher David Robertson to the Dodgers in exchange for outfielder Yasiel Puig, right-hand pitcher Jose De Leon, right-hand pitcher Yadier Alvarez, and outfielder Alex Verdugo.”

    1. Frasier might have been included in that trade scenario along with Bellinger. I don’t think the Dodgers will trade Bellinger.

    2. Seems like a fair trade to me Jason. I just looked it up and that was rumored 6 days ago. I’ve heard no follow ups to that. Has anyone else?’

  16. If the Dodgers trade for Sale and Frasier they would have two aces that pitch 7 plus innings and a third baseman that hits lefties. Turner, while better than Frasier, is better suited for a team that is less dominated with lefty bats so I think Frasier is a better fit for the Dodgers than Turner is.

    It could be fun with Cespedes and Puig playing the outfield corners but I suspect Cespedes contract demands might eliminate him and Puig might be eliminated through the trade to get Sale.

    Sale, Frasier Roberson from Sox for Puig, Verdugo, Calhoun, Shefield, Buehler, Baez.

    1. Kershaw, De Leon, Sale, Maeda, Urias, Alvarez, Stewart would be my long term choices for the Dodger rotation. I would use Stripling like Cleveland used Miller last year, Sign Tolleson and let Dayton and Tolleson close games.

      Trade bait includes Buehler, Shefield, De Jong, Verdugo, Calhoun, Puig, Kazmir, McCarthy, Gonzales, Ethier.

    2. Fraizer just hit a little above the Mendosa line.

      He is an all or nothing hitter.

      Turner is a much better player, and a provides much more offensive production, then Fraizer.

      Turner makes a difference in many more at bats, then Fraizer does.

      Fraizer is a hitter like Grandal, with a little more power then Grandal.

      We need more productive hitters in our offense, not less.

  17. On the Dbacks trade:

    “Obviously, Jean is a great fit for them and was for us, but in order for us to get a starting pitcher the caliber of Taijuan, we felt like this was the opportunity we had to take, given the market,” Hazen said. “It takes a lot of starting pitching to get through the season. Depth in your rotation and talent in your rotation is critical to being successful.”

    Hazen clearly doesn’t believe in the FAZ model when it comes to starting pitching.

    Wins Above Replacement is what ALL Front Offices look for now. Like it or not, it’s here to stay.

    Sale and Frazier make us better, but I hate to keep putting such dents in our system. I am really looking forward to seeing what it is these young guys can do. We’ve been pounding our chests in here about “the #1 system in all of baseball” and so far we’ve got is Seager, Hill and Reddick to show for it. I still think De Leon is a keeper but after him I don’t know who else is a first team player. Obviously Urias is. I don’t know enough about Bellinger and Verdugo but it does concern me none of our guys are in the Top 25 anymore.

    1. Badger

      I agree why is it ok to trade our prospects now?

      And sorry Fraizer isn’t the hitter, that Turner is.

      Fraizer is a hitter much like Grandal, but just with a little more power.

  18. First off, Happy Thanksgiving to Everyone! Good Day to spend at least a few minutes reflecting on all the good in one’s life. I know I have much to be Thankful for.

    Now to the Dodgers, again much to be Thankful for. Don’t understand all the negativity many here feel towards the Dodger future. The organization has so MUCH to work with in building for the future. Like Bluto said, “Be optimistic. It’s one of the highest regarded front offices in baseball. And a big payroll.” He didn’t even mention all the trading assets we have. Consider this:

    Taijuan Walker, 24 yrs old.

    357 MLB IP, 4.18 ERA, 1.21 WHIP

    Alex Wood, 25 yrs old.

    499 MLB IP, 3.35 ERA, 1.27 WHIP

    And we have plenty more where that came from. If we must complain, it is not getting to AZ first. Jean Segura would have plugged many of the Dodger 2017 needs in one swoop.

    Step back and think about this: It’s Thanksgiving Day, I am a Dodger fan, I could have been born a DBag fan. That should brighten anyone’s day!!!

    1. You might remember the Dbacks won a World Series this century. Why rag on their fans? Cheap shot.

      I don’t get the trade of Segura and Haniger. I liked them both. Walker was a top prospect, but, hasn’t looked like all that to me.

      1. Thought I was conversing with DODGER fans! If I was among a bunch of DBag fans, I might say “good trade, hope it works out for you guys, hope you guys get out of the celler this year”. But, I am conversing with DODGER fans and really thinking, DAMN wish AZ would trade with us. Just think, Wood for Segura and how would Dansby Swanson, Ender Inciarte and Aaron Blair look in Dodger Blue? Oh well, still have lots to be Thankful for this fine Thanksgiving Morning and Christmas is coming soon.

        Why you being so uppity this morning?

        1. If anybody is uppity its you. Oooh, lucky you, being born a Dodger fan. And those poor unfortunates who were born a “DBag” fan. Sounds pretty snooty to me. If you knew them you wouldn’t say such disrespectful things about them.

          1. If being a Dodger fan makes me “uppity”, I will claim the title proudly!!!

            Jeez, why the anger? What is disrespectful? That I don’t like the trades AZ makes? That I wish Dodgers could be their trading partner? That I am happy, since FAZ, Dodgers are going in a different direction?

            I am sure many DBag fans are very nice people, like I said, If I was among a bunch of DBag fans, I might say “good trade, hope it works out for you guys, hope you guys get out of the celler this year”. SO WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

            You remind me of the political correctness police!!!!

      2. Walker, like the Dodgers Lee, should have been traded when he had more value. A good example of holding on to prospects gone wrong.

        1. Hazen apparently sees in Walker what the Dbacks need – a quality starter behind Greinke. Maybe getting out of Seattle is all he needs to do to reach that “potential”. Their staff does look pretty deep, though projections don’t look that favorable for Walker. 155 innings, 2 WAR.

        2. Looks like to me that Seattle got GREAT value for Walker. I would have loved to plug Segura into 2nd base in exchange for Wood.

          Agree, Lee’s star had sunk lots before he was traded, hindsight, getting Taylor was pretty good considering the situation.

  19. Happy Thanksgiving to ALL!!!!!
    I would think our #1 priority is to resign Turner because we have no one in the pipeline to take his place.
    Let Kenley walk if his price is unrealistic. instead sign Melancon and perhaps Tolleson. Failing that,we could very well have inhouse replacements and maybe bullpen by committee. We do have Dayton,Ravin, Liberatore, and perhaps Yimi.
    Resign Blanton if the price is right. Trade Baez.
    Trade for Villar and Braun( I know, I know nobody likes him but me). We could start the Package with Puig, Baez. Verdugo, Calhoun, etc.

    1. I also think resigning Turner is job # 1. But, we have to also say, just like Kenley, “let him walk if his price in unrealistic”. Happily, the numbers I see thrown around 3-4 yrs for $45M-65M seem pretty reasonable compared to Cepedes at $125M/5 yrs. I would rather have Turner.

      1. Boxout

        I completely agree with you about Turner.

        Turner is actually going to be a decent contract, compared to others, with his production.

        Because Turner is a late bloomer, who is older, and he has had injury issues.

        And any other team that wants to sign Turner, will have to give up a number one pick.

        All of these things, actually brings Turner’s price down, compared to others, that have Turner’s offensive production.

        And the Dodgers won’t have to give up a number one pick to sign Turner, unlike the other teams.

        And we know that Turner got his knee fixed, with that surgery he had in the last off season.

        And because of that, Turner was able to play in the most games, he has played in, in his entire career last year, because he was healthier.

        And Turner doesn’t cost us a single prospect, and he has been the most important bat, in our line up, in the last couple of years.

        This isn’t only the easiest fix at third, it is also the best fix, without having to give up way to much.

        1. FINALLY, we agree on something MJ! Although, I do believe the draft pick Dodgers will lose if they resign Turner must be considered.

  20. 1 – The old and infirm pitchers signed by the Dodgers were not a bridge to the future. If they were, then the bridge collapsed. Kazmir in 2016 – 10-6, 4.56, 136 1/3 ip, 44 ER – $16MM
    McCarthy in 2016 – 2-3, 4.95, 40 ip, 22 ER – $12MM
    Anderson in 2016 – 1-2, 11.95, 11 1/3 ip, 15 ER – $16.8MM

    2 – I am fascinated by all of the comparisons of Dodgers pitchers to Andrew Miller. Stripling? Wood? DId anyone actually see Miller pitch? Does anyone think that Wood or Stripling have stuff as good as Miller’s? Please!

    3 – Same comment as above about the Wood/Walker comparison. No one thinks that Wood’s stuff is as good as Walker’s. Walker has not pitched up to expectations, but if he ever lives up to his potential he will be a much better pitcher than Wood. That’s why no one is beating down the Dodgers’ door to try to trade for Wood.

    3 – Walker is a prospect who hasn’t pitched as well as advertised, but talent evaluators like his stuff. Segura had a great year last year but most don’t think he’ll repeat it. Both teams have taken a risk to improve. We don’t know how this one will work out.

    4 – The latest rumors have the Nationals going hard after Sale and trying to trade Gio Gonzalez. I would love to see Sale in Dodger blue but am pessimistic that it will happen.

    1. I agree about the comparisons. Not realistic of course, but this is what fans do.

      “A bridge to future” suggested to me they were only here to get us to there, which I thought was to introduce Urias, DeLeon, Cotton, Holmes, Bellinger, Verdugo, Alvarez, Diaz, Verdugo, Calhoun, Barnes… Etc

      Now I’m not sure what the play is. Again…… we’ll soon see.

    2. You keep leaving Maeda off that list. He was part of the walking wounded program. FACT, All the pitchers you keep listing, plus Maeda, cost less than Greinke. I wonder if the new AZ GM would trade Greinke straight up for Kazmir, McCarthy and Maeda, TODAY. I think he would be all over it. As Badger’s post above said, the new GM values DEPTH. And of course, money must also be considered.

    3. Rick

      I agree with you about Walker.

      He is to young to make that call yet.

      And we have held on to pitchers to long, because they have had good stuff, that don’t have the same upside that Walker may have.

      And they are not as young as Walker is too.

  21. MJ:

    There were other pitchers out there, that the front office could have signed, that didn’t cost as much as top tier pitcher, and didn’t have long injury histories.

    Name ’em!

    1. Well that sure quieted them down! I guess it takes awhile to put the old, “20/20 hindsight” cap on and go looking!!

      1. WHO?

        Liriano, 33 yrs old, 163 IP of 4.69 ERA???? $39M contract

        Vasquez???? Do you mean Volquez?

        Volquez, 189 IP of 5.37 ERA?

        If that is the best you got, in the words of Donald Trump, YOUR FIRED!!!

        1. Boxout

          Lirano pitched well in his first two season s for the Pirates and made his starts, unlike Anderson and McCarthy.

          And he was traded at the trade deadline, to the Bluejays, and pitched well there, this year, even in the post season.

          Unlike Anderson and McCarthy, who didn’t even make the post season roster!

          And Volquez, smart A, pitched well the first two seasons, he was with the Royals, and helped them win a world championship.

          Both of these pitchers pitched decent in there first two years, of there contracts, and made most if not all, of there starts, unlike McCarthy, who has been sitting on the bench tweeting, making his money!

          And even though Anderson did make his starts, in his first year, he didn’t pitch well in the post season, like Volquez did!

          And Anderson of course took his QO, and didn’t pitch most of the 2016 season, and in the few games that he pitched, or the two innings that he managed to pitch mostly, he was a walking disaster!

          1. So that is what you wanted? Really?

            Liriano signed a $39M/3 yr contract with Pittsburgh prior to 2015 after pitching for them in 2013 and 2014. Was he even available to Dodgers prior to 2015? His 2016 4.69 ERA included, 113 IP with PITT with a 5.46 ERA. Pirates had to give up two good prospects to dump him. Anderson had a similar 2015 to Liriano’s 2015 and even though Anderson barely pitched in 2016, Liriano’s 5.46 ERA was total suckage. Bottom line, Anderson worked out better for Dodgers than Liriano did for Pirates.

            Volquez was a Dodger in 2013. NED didn’t resign him. He signed for $20M prior to 2015, after putting up a 5.00 ERA with PITT in post-season. Maybe he had hard feelings towards Dodgers, in any event he pitched a steller 4.50 ERA over two years in KC for his $20M.

            But, I guess you are right. Your two pitchers would have been the difference!! Right???

            I think not!

          2. I guess if someone doesn’t have anything to say they can always give another commenter some BS.

  22. Seattle is a pitchers park. So, Walker is going to a park where the ball flies. Look what it did to Miller and Greinke. I love what the D-Bags are doing for our sake! DUMB!

    1. Boxout

      I don’t know where you are getting your numbers, but they are not right, or accurate for the different years.

      Volquez’s ERA with the Pirates, was 305.

      And his post season ERA on the Pirates, was only based on one game.

      He had an ERA of 365 on the Royals, in his first year there, and pitched well enough in the post season, to help the Royals win a World Series that year.

      And in the post season game,
      that he pitched in, he had just heard that is father had died, right before that game started.

      And Liriano had an ERA of 365, in the first two years, that he pitched in Pittsburg.

      He didn’t pitch well for the Pirates this year, but once he was traded to the Bluejay’s, at the trade deadline, he pitched well for them.

      And both of these pitchers made there starts, unlike McCarthy and Anderson.

      And I noticed that you didn’t post McCarthy’s or Anderson’s ERA from this year.

      Even though Liriano and Volquez didn’t have good ERAs this year, there ERAs were still better, then both Anderson’s, and McCarthy’s!

  23. Of course we will pay for them with a day-long filibuster about how much better and smarter he is than we are…
    Quasi will be there in his usual good humor, making the day more pleasant for all.

    1. Badger certainly won’t miss out on the free booze, giving us $’s latest predictions of what will happen (maybe). He and Mark will certainly not pass up this opportunity to have a spirited (get it?) debate, and end up leaving in a huff. That’s a 1927 model if I’m not mistaken…

      1. Fred will be there, making his trade proposals that the rest of us, awww, I’m not going there…
        Boxout7 will be there upholding the honor (?) of the FAZonians, ready to do battle with anyone who mentions one of FAZ’s many mistakes. Everyone will be well represented and I will be there doing my rabble-rousing best. At some point we all will crawl back to our own hovels, overcome with too much good food, good liquor, and bad rhetoric. Leaving MJ with a mountain of dishes, pots, and pans to wash.

        1. The rest of us……Are you now speaking for everybody Wondering? Some people like to use lots of words to describe what we are all aware of, me? I describe the problem and the need with trade scenarios, getting rid of problems and adding solutions using fewer words to do it.

          1. Look at it this way: I entertained myself for probably half an hour doing that series. It cost me nothing, it didn’t cost anyone else anything either. You read it and took offense which is a good thing because it stimulates your brain cells. So now you’re furnishing me more entertainment (Quite unwillingly, I’ll wager) by responding to it. It’s all good. If anyone reads it and is entertained, good for them and I’m glad. If anyone is offended, I’m sorry. This is the Internet, enjoy it or avoid it. You might post a message to Oscar endorsing the Ignore Button I have been trying to get him to install. Personally, i’m not worth the trouble.

        2. And Mark and Badger will be debating, and still be debating, long after everyone has already left the table.

          And what is new about the men leaving there dishes behind?

          They are always leaving all the dishes for the women to clean.

          Darn men!

          And once desert was served, everyone would watch either Mark stick a piece of pie in Badgers face, and
          Vice versa.

          And if Mark does leave, we will see Boxout following Mark to his car, with his tail between his legs.

          And then Wondering, would pop out, and say, that is all folks!

          1. And if Mark does leave, we will see Boxout following Mark to his car, with his tail between his legs.

            Love that line. You noticed, huh?

  24. The Walker-Wood comparison was a good one. Seattle got better than the D’backs did. The Mariners have a better infield now, but pitching will have to depend on young guys or other trades, free agents. Maybe they will play for one of the closers available, but I think their closer is ok. The Mariners are taking dead aim at the Rangers. Walker was a great college pitcher and a #1 pick. Development has been slower than they expected. He hasn’t been as successful as Alex Wood at the big league level. That trade doesn’t make the D’backs better. Good for us. The giants are still the worry. All those starters under contract; all are healthy and in their prime. Let’s hope that they flame out on their desire for a couple of outfielders and closer. I hear they want McCutcheon. That would be “ouch.” I wouldn’t mind if we did nothing except re-sign Jansen. The team will still be ok. The elephant in the room will be Kershaw’s health. Not much mention of that anywhere. No news is good news?

  25. If a team can’t win a WS without 2 aces one might ask why have any if not two.

    Might a 6 man rotation without an ace be as good as a 5 man rotation with only one ace?

    With that question in mind, could the Dodgers trade Kershaw to get bats and gloves and go with a rotation of Urias, De Leon, Stewart, Maeda, Wood, McCarthy/Kazmir? In a few years Urias and Alvarez will again give the Dodgers two aces and maybe De Leon will give them a solid #2.

    Kershaw, Gonzales, Wood, and Verdugo/Calhoun for Moncada, Betts, and Hanley Ramirez
    Ramirez provides a great righty bat and has played good defense at first. He could be the bridge to Bellinger at first or platoon with him at first. Moncada is a switch hitter with speed and power for second base. Betts plays RF and second base so he should be able to play third base.

    LF Toles
    2B Moncada
    SS Seager
    3B Betts
    CF Pederson
    RF Puig
    1B Ramirez/Bellinger
    C Grandal/ Barnes
    P Urias, De Leon, Stewart, Maeda, McCarthy, Kazmir

    1. Bum

      I like most of your line up, but Betts needs to stay in the outfield.

      He had the most saved runs on defense, then any other player, in all of baseball.

      He should have won the American MVP!

      He covers more ground then even Puig, and he doesn’t throw to the wrong base, or get in front of the other outfielders, like Puig does.

      And Betts is a much better offensive player, then Puig is too.

      And about first base, I just don’t think Bellinger is ready.

      I use to like Hanley, but he isn’t a team player, so I rather have Agone at first.

      But if you can find a good platoon partner, to hit against lefties, to give Agone more rest, that would be good.

      I really lost a lot of respect for Hanley, when he didn’t really try to play leftfield, the year before.

      He could have played leftfield well, if he wanted to.

      And Turner would be better at third, and cost less, in prospects.

      And I just think we need Kershaw to stabilize this starting pitching rotation.

      But I do think that the Red Sox might think about trading for Kershaw, if the Dodgers suggested that, but I don’t see them, trading Betts, to any team.

        1. The devil is always in the details.

          If not Kazmir or McCarthy then Stripling, Oaks, De Jong,

          MJ, I suppose if the Dodgers were to get both Moncada and Betts they would not need Ramirez’ righty bat at first. If Betts were in RF where would Puig play?

    2. Notwithstanding the last time I responded to one of your posts I was sworn at by you, I have to respond to this.

      If starting pitching isn’t important – if aces don’t matter, then I guess we have to ask ourselves how last year’s best playoff teams did it (with aces). And how Dodger teams have won in the past (with aces).

      Finally, why not just throw 5 or 6 guys like Bud Norris out there if starting pitching doesn’t matter?

      1. The Red Sox who have the best offense in all of baseball, couldn’t win, without having some good starting pitching.

        Then we sure couldn’t win, without good starting pitching either.

        The Red Sox have a better offensive team, then the Cubs.

        But the Cubs, have a really good starting pitching rotation.

        They Cubs have four starting pitchers, that are very capable of pitching in the post season.

        That is there biggest strength.

      2. Rick, you will never get sworn at by me when you ask legitimate questions like you just did. The thought that I was throwing out there was that the Dodgers didn’t advance to the WS with two aces in Kershaw and Greinke or Kershaw and Hill.

        I agree AZ won with Schilling and Johnson, LA with Koufax and Drysdale, etc but 1988 was Belcher, Honeycut, Hershiser, Leary….

        The Dodgers could trade the farm to get another ace that would be gone in 2 or 3 years or keep the farm and add young bats and gloves at the cost of one ace.

        That was an exciting team I put together with lots of speed and power and defense. Just a thought. Look at it and see the negatives or the positives.

    1. Well, after seeing what Walker brought back to Seattle, I think FAZ has raised their sights up the 2nd base food chain. I did like the idea of the versatile Rodriguez though. But Kiki is a lot cheaper. Anybody think Kiki could have been hampered by his shoulder surgery last off-season?

      1. I think Kiké can hit. Not sure what else can do as he’s bounced all over the field defensively. Heck, let him play third base. He may be the best we have it.

        1. He hit well enough in 2015 to deserve a trial at second base or even third if need be. But I say that with a real lack of enthusiasm because I know FAZ isn’t listening, he will go his own way.

      2. Boxout

        Take a look at Rodriquez’s stats, before this last free agent year.

        His stats are much different, and not in a good way.

      3. Boxout

        I thought that that could have been part of his problem, because he didn’t play in spring training, but I still don’t want to count on Kike, to play second base.

        Kike has to come back, and prove himself, and try to be an utility player first, to me.

  26. Mark

    Here they are.

    and really they didn’t even have to trade Haren, he would have been a decent number five pitcher.

    And what is the weather report for tommorow’s game?

    1. The Nats back loaded their contract with Scherzer so I would have to think that if the Dodgers were to have front loaded a contract and given him an out after 2 or 3 years he would have taken it. The Dodgers could have had Kershaw, Greinke, and Scherzer in 2015 and Kershaw, Hill, and Scherzer in 2016.

      That has always been my complaint about what the Dodgers have done in regards to pitching. I agreed with not re-signing Greinke and not trading for Hammel, Price, Cueto, etc.

  27. Fred, feuding is a useless drain on both our assets, what say we make a lasting peace? Your outlandish trades offend me but that’s my problem and I have no right at all to criticize you for them or try to discourage you from posting them. On the contrary, please continue posting whatever you want to say, that is what the Internet is for, or what it has become, rather. I will not comment on your posts. We’re all different people, different personalities, different ideas on what is funny, what is a good idea, what isn’t. But we’re fortunate that we have the right to express our ideas and don’t let anyone stop you.

    1. Okay, lets give it a try. I can understand how my trades might annoy someone but don’t know how they could offend anybody. As regards to the Dodgers, I prefer to to think about the improbable in hopes that the impossible might happen. See what I did there.

      Sometimes what I call disrespectful you call humorous. I will not be critical of your political views for those are yours and not mine but I will probably say something if I confuse humor with disrespect.

      Wondering, would you share your first name so we can take a step toward talking like were friends?

      1. My name is Art. I really have no political leaning, I hate all politicians because they lie to us, steal from us, and insult everything our country is supposed to stand for. I’m afraid I’ll comment on a lot of things but please don’t interpret that to mean I care about it one way or the other. Probably means I don’t have enough sense to keep my mouth shut. I’m loud but harmless….

          1. I am going to assume that you heated it up and had a Coke. I served Thanksgiving dinner at a shelter once when I was away for Thanksgiving.

          2. Hot, yes but no coke. I maybe drink a beer in a month or two, maybe 2 cokes a month. I do probably 3 pints of coffee a day and suck a few ice cubes, so maybe a half gallon of liquid total. I no longer eat many of the things I used to love, very little meat. It’s not a very exciting life.

  28. A demotic coming together. I smell a bromance.

    Did you guys see the SNL skit with Trump and Romney? They are shaking hands, smiling, saying nothing ….. then Romney says “this isn’t going to work is it?” Trump says “I don’t think so”. That’s a few of us in here.

    1. Yep. Maybe we can set a goal to reduce those by 50%. Hopefully politics won’t rear it ugly head as much in here.

    2. You must have got that from $5.38 because it’s wrong. I don’t have close personal relationships, have never had the need to have “friends”, just associates when it is convenient. I’m leaning over backwards here to placate Fred. Nothing will come of it but less hostilities. Basically I’m a hermit.

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