It’s hard to judge the Dodger’s 2016 season as a success or a failure. The 2016 season was a roller coaster ride of frustrating and heroic moments all rolled into one. There were ups, and there were downs, and there were moments of accomplishments. Unfortunately the moments of frustration probably outweighed the moments of achievement. The season ended with the Dodgers unable to win the pennant again. This time they were knocked out in the NLCS round by the Chicago Cubs. They got further then they normally would have, but still chocked at the end only two wins shy of the World Series.
How the Dodgers got to that inevitable and predictable October choke was unconventional, yet totally conventional for a front office that follows the latest money ball trends. This season was chalk full of injuries. More than you or I could ever imagine.
The Dodgers broke the major league record for most players on the disabled list. The amount of days could add up to more than the180 days of the regular season. The list of players was larger than an entire 25-man roster. A team of broken players.
This season taught us some things that I already knew. You have to have strong reliable starting pitching to win a championship. If you have a 280 million dollar payroll and have to start Nick Tepesch in a major league baseball game then you are doing something wrong. You’re probably wondering how I would build a starting rotation. Let me explain my strategy. I would start by having an ace fronting the rotation. The Dodgers already have that in Clayton Kershaw. Then I would add three healthy reliable starters behind him. Those would be three guys that can take the mound every fifth day and provide the club quality innings. The fifth starter can or could be a rookie, prospect, or reclamation project, but the top four have to stay on the mound most of the season and take the toll off the bullpen. Innings and health are very important when building a successful starting rotation.
No more signing injury riddled arms. Stop giving chances to guys that have long and established histories of injuries. Other front offices jettison those guys long before they set the team back and waste roster spots. Instead the club lets these types of pitchers linger on and fester on the roster for years. They make comeback after comeback and it should come as no surprise to anyone when they fail or get hurt again.
The offense has to do more than just hit home runs and draw walks. The Dodger offense this season was lackluster and overall below average. Justin Turner and Corey Seager had awesome seasons, but the rest of the position player roster was unproductive. The club has to be able to hit left handed pitching in 2017. The Dodgers were the worst team in the majors in hitting lefties. Platoon and marginal players are not the answer to that. The Dodgers have to be able to manufacture runs and hit with runners in scoring position. The Dodgers had little to no base running and needed a better lead-off hitter than Chase Utley. Lineup speed is valuable too.
The Dodgers continue to need strong defense. Pitching framing and game calling are still important, and shifts are not as vital as turning double plays when runners are on base. The Dodgers were a very strong defensive club in 2016, and I was most impressed by that.
The Dodgers had the best manager in baseball this season. Dave Roberts won the manager of the year not because of his mixing and matching or managing of the injuries, but because of his strong personality. His never say die approach rubbed off on the players. A team tends to take on the personality of their manager, and the Dodgers finished with 46 come from behind wins this season. That was second in all of MLB. The Dodgers became known as a team that battled back and never gave up, until they eventually gave up.
The Dodgers need to be more aggressive in the free agent market. The team with the most resources and riches as the Dodgers are should have one or two stars. That doesn’t mean the Dodgers have to spend 200 million dollars on free agents, but it does mean that it’s unlikely to have an entire roster of prospects and utility players and expect to win. It’s really about balancing the roster.
This isn’t about money ball, or market inefficiencies, or payroll flexibility, or even farm system development. This is about winning championships. The Cubs have taken over as the team to beat in the National League. As we saw this season they are extremely talented in all facets of the game. If the Dodgers are going to beat them and break this awful World Series drought, then they are going to have to more than they currently have been.
The 2016 season was a success in many ways, but it was also a failure. That’s what this is all about. It’s all about winning championships. The Dodgers have to do more.
Let’s not forget how the Cubs became the team to beat: It was by tanking and accumulating draft picks and prospects for 4 years. It didn’t happen overnight, but our system is getting stronger by the minute. We just did not have the advantage of trading away aging players for picks and prospects and drafting in the top few picks for several years.
We would have to gut the farm to get three top starters. Is that what we want to do? I for one, would be willing to tank a year. Trade Ethier, KAZ and McCarthy and A-Gon and get younger, Who know, we still might win big depending upon how Urias, De Leon, Stewart and Buehler do. Let Turner and Jansen walk.
What? You’ve done a 180. This is what I suggested last year and I was skewered for it. Why the reversal?
Badger
Have you ever got a virus on your safari, on your iPad?
Don’t believe so. Why?
Badger
I got one today, and I hope I wasn’t scammed, but I don’t think so.
I got this message from Apple, that my safari had been exposed to a virus.
I couldn’t get out of that message, so I called the number they gave me.
It cost me fifty dollars, to get it off.
But if it ever happens again, I can use this same serivice for free.
I am not to internet savvy so I really didn’t know what else to do.
I got this on that MLB Trade site, reading comments there.
I wanted to ask you, because I know you have an IPad.
MJ, did you talk to a bunch of Oriental “gentlemen” allegedly in different places around the country? Had the same thing happen to me two years ago with a new tablet I bought. Tablets don’t have as much anti-virus software as computers. I wish they had only got me for $50!!! And they didn’t solve the problem anyway, I had to do a total data wipe to eliminate it. By the way, they themselves place the data on the Internet so new electronics that don’t yet have anti-virus stuff catch it. If I could get my hands on them…. There are free anti-virus apps you can get for your IPOD, I suggest you get protection fast.
MJ, here’s a couple of websites about antivirus apps for Ipod:
http://www.biglittlegeek.com/best-antivirus-apps-for-iphone-ipad/
http://www.brainytuts.com/paid-free-best-antivirus-apps-for-iphone-ipad-ipod-touch/
Could have taken Kazmir & McCarthy’s money and given it to Cueto or Grienke. There’s your #2. Could deal either DeLeon or Urias along with Puig and another prospect for Sale. There’s your #1 through #3 starters WITHOUT tanking anything. It’s called planning or having a plan. The only plan that was in effect was to hang onto all the prospects UNTIL that became NOT the plan (Exhibit A…..Hill/Reddick for 3 top 13 prospects). Could have kept Frazier in the trade last winter. Insurance for Turner walking plus would have had his RH bat this past year. There are so many things that could have been done differently.
And if we would have signed better and reliable pitchers in the first place, instead of , McCarthy and Kazmir.
We wouldn’t have to trade prospects, to find some more pitchers, to take there place this year, and next year.
MJ,
Almost every problem in the world would be solved with a time-machine.
Bluto
We don’t need a time machine, when only, a little common sense, was needed.
And almost everyone here, voiced there concerns with these deals, from the day we heard about these deals.
MJ, THAT was my very take on a big reason why all of a sudden we have these injuries to our staff. First of all Dodgers KNEW of Ryu’s shoulder issue come September of 2014, held on thinking he might be able to go in 2015 and was out for that entire year. then waited around while not seeking adequate reinforcements for RYu and look what happened. Before the 2015 season FO began this dumpster diving for guys like Mccarthy, and Anderson KNOWING of their extensive injury history backgrounds and Mac was gone after only 4 starts in 2015. They allowed Greinke to walk, but that was understandable to a degree since they were not going to go 6 years and $ 206 million he got from AZ But then before 2016 they sign yet another LHP in Kazmir, and we saw how that worked out. so all in all I concur with your very last sentence.
Wondering
They said that if it ever happened again, they would fix it for free.
And on there email receipt, it said that it would cover any new computer, or iPhone I get in the future.
It said Apple on this thing that poped up.
The guy could have been Asian, because he didn’t pronounce our vowels correctly.
But it was actually listed as in my App Store on my Iphone.
I wanted to ask you about this, but I thought maybe Badger, might have some more insight, because he has used Apple products a lot.
I thought about the same way, as you felt.
I thought they could be doing this to anyone, when they wanted money.
I don’t know about those apps that are anti virus, but I will look in to them.
But if the money I paid, covers anything I would have that happen for life, would I need one of those anti virus apps still.
It made me mad, because I am paying one of my credit cards down, and then I am doing what I always do, then suddenly, I am charged fifty dollars.
I couldn’t get off that warning, to even ask anyone what to do.
And I didn’t know if it was a scam or not.
Perhaps they are with Apple, I wouldn’t know. If it gives you lifetime coverage, I guess it was worth it. I think I would check on some of the free antivirus apps anyway, you can’t have too much protection. I’m glad you moved up from your cell phone.
Come to think of it the ones I dealt with inferred they were with Microsoft. They weren’t, they just had training on Microsoft software, and I got a one year guarantee. They probably know how to fix the things but it just offends the Hell out of me that they give you a problem and then charge you for fixing it.
Mark
What the Cubs did, has nothing to do, with signing starting pitchers, with long injury histories.
It is just not a good idea.
And this front office has either gone with high risk, high reward pitchers, or low risk, low reward players.
What Scott is saying, there is a middle ground here, that they need to look at, and use.
He also said, there are ways to use these other methods but don’t use it, for the most important players, or pitchers, on a team.
Spot on! MJ
Thanks PDF
I am fine with that Mark. MJ won’t like it though.
Bum
I am not in the minorty here.
And Mark just had McCuthen playing center next year.
The Cubs got lucky with Bryant just as the giants got lucky with Posey. Not all #1 draft picks turn out to be MVP in 3 years. It’s our turn with Seager, but we need the 3A and 2A guys to step up now. If Bellinger is as good as Mark hopes, and if Urias is as good as we have been talking about forever, and if…………… we will get the trophy in a couple of years. A nice trade or 2 would help. If Seager is MVP in 2 years, I think he may carry the next group with him to the top. This is a big year for our farm system, and I hope we place 4-5 minor league guys on our roster. De Jong said the other day that he was pleased with how the team is allowing an open flow of players to the majors. So am I. But now they must produce. They will be given a chance. I still say keep Jansen. BTW: Jimmy Johnson is the greatest stock car driver ever. They keep trying to keep him from winning every year, and he doesn’t, but he has 7 and will probably will end up with more.
The Cubs got really lucky when the Astros didn’t take Bryant. But it’s interesting how often Theo has gotten lucky in the draft. And with trades for that matter.
Add on: Toles and Pederson should be part of this group. We need 3-4 more. We are approaching the post Puig Era, I think. I hope.
St. Louis signs Lefty Brett Cecil (who?) to a 4 year, $30.5M deal to be part of the bullpen. An average of $7.5M/ year and not a closer. Wow.
Whatever it’d take to retain both Turner and Jansen wouldn’t be the most foolish of deals done by this F/O. All GM’s bite into bad contract offerings but both Turner and Jansen are elite and neither is near likely to be replaced with equal talent. I’d much rather concentrate replacing those with less contributes. If Dodgers are losing $ (which I can’t believe) AGon, Turner and Jansen are not the reasons. I don’t want them after they’re walking antiques but as of yet they’re not blocking better talent inside our reserves. More money has been wasted on experimental pitchers that contributed little. I’d hate to start feeling like the Dodgers didn’t deserve elite players but if they let our heroes get away we fans have little more than Dodgers name to identify with.
Quas
Good points about Kenley, Turner, and Agone.
Scott, the glass is half full, not empty. We were the third best team in 2016, have the Manager of the Year, Rookie of the Year, excellent owners, a bright front office, and a terrific farm system. Life is good!
Baseball is flush with money right now and contracts are ridiculous right now. McCarthy’s contract should be movable if they so desire. No one with a qualifying offer has signed a deal yet. Not sure if that will happen before the new CBA is done. The old one expires on December 1st I believe. I wonder if there will be a bump in the luxury tax level.
The Dodgers have now been linked to every possible 2nd base option not named Brandon Phillips. No I don’t want him. Kinsler, Forsythe, and Dozier have all been mentioned in the rumor mill.
Hawkeye
Bluejay’s just offered the Parrot, a four year 80 million dollar contract.
They wouldn’t have to give up a pick for their own player. Seems like it is one of those offers where they can say they tried, but know they will get outbid. Hard to tell though with the money that’s being tossed to low end players this year. I don’t see how Encarnacion and Morales fit together.
Hawkeye
I believe you are exactly right!
Because not to long after I heard this, they speculated that the Bluejay’s made that offer, before Morales was signed.
No offense, but I hate this type of articles.
It’s so easy to deal with generalities. EVERY TEAM in the league wants to get reliable starters out of Free Agency, and to have a team that hits lefties and righties equally well.
That’s some ground-breaking off-season strategy?
How about dealing with reality. There are more teams needing starting pitching than not, and there are very few starting pitchers available. That means you have to overpay (in dollars or prospects) for aging talent (Greinke), or take chances on pitchers with question marks (Cueto, D. Price.)
The Dodgers did neither. They signed players for depth and that depth is what got them to game 6 of the NLCS against the best team in the league.
If they resign Hill, the rotation should be fine, but in keeping with the theme of inane, general off-season strategies. Here’s mine:
Only sign players that are going to outperform their contract.
Sign RH Power Hitter for low-cost.
Find the next Mike Trout in the draft.
Bluto
These high risk pitchers that signed as depth, didn’t get them to game six.
Anderson didn’t even make it through spring training, and McCarthy, only pitched two good games, until he got the yips.
You might claim Kazmir did, because he made a lot of his starts, but he didn’t pitch up to his cost either.
The young pitchers, are really the ones, that saved this rotation, as well, as the bullpen.
And the bullpen was so over worked, they faltered in that last series.
This is just not a way, to build a starting pitching rotation.
As may other fans have pointed out on other Dodger blogs, Freidman and Zaidi were not good in judging potential pitching talent, and I am not talking about the top farm hands, but am talking about their evaluation process for those damaged goods they signed since before the 2015 season. I saw this coming, but you are correct on the youngsters saving the rotation and Dave Roberts was great with managing the BP. But we just did not get enough length from the SP’s and eventually as i predicted would come back to hurt us, as the BP was worn out by the middle of that NLCS. not to mention that they were DEAD LAST IN MLB against LHP!
PDF
And if our offense wouldn’t have been as good as they were, after Kershaw went down, who knows what would happen.
And Roberts played a big role too.
MJ, that is true and it did surprise me some, but team scored well over 700+ runs and had 189 HR’s with 4 guys with 25 + each. what appeared to happen was than when Reddick was obtained his presence made Dodgers too LH dominant to the point that opposing teams loaded up with LHP every chance they had and most of those results speak for themselves.
MJ: “Bluto, These high risk pitchers that signed as depth, didn’t get them to game six. You might claim Kazmir did, because he made a lot of his starts, but he didn’t pitch up to his cost either. This is just not a way, to build a starting pitching rotation.”
OK, GM MJ, You like 20/20 hindsight, so do I. How do YOU build a starting pitching rotation? Didn’t you want the highest priced free-agent pitcher last year? Didn’t you repeat over and over that the highest priced free-agent pitcher knew his body and would never break down? That he would age like a fine wine? Well you were WRONG!!!
Greinke, 158 IP, 4.37 ERA, $206.5M/six years
Kazmir, 136 IP, 4.56 ERA, $48M/three years
Maeda, 175 IP, 3.48 ERA, $25M/eight years
Look at that!! Twice the innings at a third the cost!!!! Better combined ERA also!!
GM MJ, in the words of Donald Trump, YOUR FIRED!!!!
Boxout
Good business men, don’t judge a deal on one year.
And apparently this front office valued Greinke high too, because they offered Greinke a large contract, and they were still asking about Greinke, at the trade deadline.
And by the way, Greinke missed time, because of a oblique injury, not because he has a chronic condition, like Kazmir has, so Greinke will be pitching next year, and did finish the season, unlike Kazmir.
And the popular vote, shows that this guy is no more then a reality guy, not any kind of mandate.
And reality is not actuality!
Good luck there.
MJ: “Good business men, don’t judge a deal on one year”.
I wonder if Dave Stewart tried that one at his firing!!
Boxout
That is a stardard you always hear in baseball.
I don’t know what Stewart said or did, but La Russa should take responsibility for that deal too.
You’re wrong about what Maeda cost last year. He cost $9.6MM last year due to bonuses, plus $20MM to his old team payable in 4 installment of $5MM – so last year he cost $14.6MM.
http://www.truebluela.com/2013/10/21/4861112/los-angeles-dodgers-payroll.
Kazmir cost $16MM last year so between the 2 it cost LA $30.6MM.
You are correct! Maeda did earn many of the incentives built into his contract. A majority of the $20M posting fee has already been paid (according to the article), however, not sure why you wouldn’t amortize the posting fee over all eight years of the contract, therefore, assigning only $2.5M to 2016. Additionally, did you notice Kazmir’s contract pays him $8M/yr for the next six years, only $8M was paid to him in 2016.
We can argue about dollars, but, there is no denying that the “high risk” walking wounded strategy provided twice the 2016 innings that Greinke did and at a better combined ERA and at a much smaller long term cost. Many of us have talked about the, Andersons, McCarthys, Kazmir and Maedas as a relatively small cost bridge to the young studs FAZ sees coming up. Looking at the contracts being given to pitchers so far this offseason, it looks to me that both McCarthy and Kazmir are very tradeable. Not sure FAZ is ready to do this. I believe we will see more young studs on innings limits in 2017 with hopefully Mccarthy, Kazmir and Maeda eating innings.
My main point, that conveniently gets forgotten on this board when discussing FAZ starting pitching signings is, Maeda must be included in the discussion!
Boxout
I have no problem with Maeda, he earned his money, and he isn’t like those other pitchers.
That was a good deal, even if Maeda, has to have TJ surgery sometime.
But he isn’t a number two, but I think he might get better, after getting more experience.
To answer your question, Maeda’s posting fee is being paid out over 4 years, not 8, so I factored in the $5MM that was paid out last year in what it cost to have him on the staff. The contract, as structured, ensures that Maeda’s signing won’t be too onerous even if his arm falls off next year, so I do applaud the creativity in his signing last year.
The issue that I take with your analysis is that it conveniently only looks at the money spent last year on Kazmir and Maeda. In fact, they’ve spent
$16.8MM on Anderson last year
$12MM on McCarthy last year
And got next to nothing for their investment.
So – the “relatively small cost bridge” cost: Kazmir – $16MM for 2016 (with $8MM payable in 2020) Maeda – $14.6MM for 2016 (including 1/4 ofthe posting fee) McCarthy – $12MM for 2016
Anderson – $16.8MM for 2016
Total for 2016 – $59.4MM –
Money well spent? I say no.
The article you posted shows the $20M posting fee being paid by the end 2017. Agreed the Maeda contract creativity should be applauded.
Even though I “conveniently” only looked at Kazmir and Maeda, even with adding in Anderson’s $16.8M and McCarthy’s $12M, for an all four pitcher 2016 total of $59.4M, that amount provided Dodgers with twice the innings pitched (at a lower ERA) as Greinke at less 2016 cost than two Greinke’s would have $68M ($34m x 2). Oh course, that doesn’t even consider the, elephant in the room, after 2016 cost for Greinke of $172.5M.
Not arguing FAZ/Dodgers would have liked better results for the “high risk” walking wounded program, but, in reality every pitcher is high risk. Case in point:
Greinke, 2016, 158 IP, 4.37 ERA, $34M. Future salary $172.5M.
Anderson, 2015, 180 IP, 3.69 ERA, combined 2015 and 2016 salary $26.8M. Future salary zero.
Something to consider for all those still mourning the Greinke non-signing. I bet AZ is really, really, hoping the annual elbow lube job works for another five years.
The issue that I still have with the Dodgers’ willingness to let Greinke walk was revealed in the post-season in 2016. The Dodgers had no true #2 starter most of the year. While Kershaw was out, they didn’t have him or Grienke so their #1 was Maeda and #2 was Kazmir until he went out too.
They picked up Hill as a short term #2 but he only started 6 games for the Blue from 8/1 through the end of the season, and 3 more in the post season. He was good when he pitched, which wasn’t often, which is the problem with signing the old and infirm.
So now, who is #2? And wouldn’t you rather have Greinke pitch against the likes of Cueto, Arrieta or Strasburg in the post-season than Maeda or Kazmir? I know I would.
Maeda in 2016 – 16-11, 3.48, 175 2/3 ip, 68 ER – $9.6MM plus posting fee
Kazmir in 2016 – 10-6, 4.56, 136 1/3 ip, 44 ER – $16MM
McCarthy in 2016 – 2-3, 4.95, 40 ip, 22 ER – $12MM
Anderson in 2016 – 1-2, 11.95, 11 1/3 ip, 15 ER – $16.8MM
Under any analysis, the Dodgers didn’t get their money’s worth out of Kazmir, McCarthy or Anderson in 2016.
Sorry – signing guys who can’t pitch isn’t a bridge to the future.
Hello dodgerrick! As far as Ballet Bret Anderson (as he is known), many felt that he called Dodger’s bluff so to speak and surprised them with taking that QO..
PDF 1965: “As far as Ballet Bret Anderson (as he is known), many felt that he called Dodger’s bluff so to speak and surprised them with taking that QO.”
Many may have felt this way, I never did. FAZ gave Anderson $10M before 2015 season, when he had pitched 205 inning in prior four years. FAZ then offered QO of $16.8M after 27 year old Anderson pitched 180 inning of 3.69 ERA ball. Hindsight is always 20/20, but, don’t you think Anderson was entitled to some kind of a raise after 2015? I do! If FAZ was surprised, they were pleasantly surprised, although another draft pick would have also been welcome.
Dodgerrick: “So now, who is #2? And wouldn’t you rather have Greinke pitch against the likes of Cueto, Arrieta or Strasburg in the post-season than Maeda or Kazmir? I know I would.”
My #2 wouldn’t be Greinke at $34M/yr. Lost a lot of velocity in 2016, threw a lot more breaking balls. Biggest game of the year for Greinke was his start at Dodger Stadium and we all know what happened there. Still puts a smile on my face. No, my 2017 #2 is Hill, hopefully signed for three years at $15M/yr. My 2018 and after #2 would be whoever is hot between Hill, Urias, Bueller or Alzarez.
I said before, if we do not sign Jansen and Turner, then we need to trade Agon for a very good prospect. Trade Eithier, McCarthy and Kasmir for more prospects. Let the rookies play. Keep Puig. He has a friendly contract. Figure out what we have after next season, and then trade Kershaw to fill the holes. It may look like a AAAA club for a while, but who knows. The contracts I see now for some of these average ball players are insane. If we are looking at 100 million for a closer, then we need to pass. I would rather see the rookies play.
They just said that the Giants are going after Kenley hard.
And someone just told me JT is ‘elite’ !??! That’s puzzling…
But Reddick was ‘elite’? What does that make Turner?
Idaho, I’m more aligned to your thinking except for Agone… I watched Bellinger on two occasions in the AFL and I don think he’s ready. He may pull a Seagar, come up midyear and never go back…
Still would love a hammer in the middle, but maybe a Puig comes alive…
Peter
Also if we don’t trade Agone, until his last year comes up, he can mentor Bellinger too.
I have my doubts about Bellinger, and his scouting report, makes me wonder too.
But Mark said he is like Corey, and if that is true, he will adjust well.
I haven’t seen much of him, but Mark has, so he might know better, then us.
MJ, his scouting reports was great except for two sentences that insinuated that he had more work to do in the minors. There has to be a negative in every report too.
Hawkeye
Thanks!
But I didn’t mean arrival time.
It was more about his swing, with the new loft.
It said that he did hit for a good average, before the change in his swing, and didn’t strike out as much.
And right now he could still hit for a better average, with plenty of power, but he is more focused with his power.
And he is striking out more.
And I just saw him strike out two times in that game, so it isn’t any big sample size.
Scouts have to cover their butts too….
Bellinger has a ‘long swing problem’, but has adjusted at every level and his mental approach and swagger reminds me a lot of Seager as he worked his way to the bigs…
Peter
That is good to hear!
1 – A Dodgers team without Jansen, Turner, Hill, Kendrick/Utley won’t be as good as last year’s team unless they replace them with players who are equal or better.
2 – The only closer on the free agent market who may be Jansen’s equal is Chapman, but Chapman has baggage and Jansen is a Dodger.
3 – There are no free agent 3B who are any good.
4 – A trade to replace Jansen or Turner would cost prospects – resigning them costs money. I’d rather not trade our top prospects to replace guys that we should just resign.
5 – Simply resigning Turner and Jansen does nothing to solve the deficiencies in last year’s team – inability to hit lefties, poor starting pitching.
6 – If the ownership really wants the team to compete for a title, then standing pat won’t do it – they have to improve.
7 – I acknowledge that some improvement in the pitching will come from the likes of Urias, Stripling, et al – but the Dodgers won’t have the equal of Arrieta, Cueto or Strasburg as a #2.
8 – Signing the injured or injury-prone isn’t depth. It isn’t depth if they don’t pitch.
9 – I am done with Puig. He will go down in baseball history as a guy with talent who is too big a head case to succeed.
10 – They need improve at 2B, get a bopper to hit lefties, get a #2 starter and resign Jansen and Turner.
BUT THEY WON’T
Rick, you’ve pretty much summed it up. I agree with PDFs points as well. If you want to watch prospects, Rancho Cucamonga is not far away and still may have some good seats available. I think Los Angeles deserves a big-league team. Although people are showing up to watch the Rams, so I may be wrong.
If we do not sign Jansen and Turner, what is left? I agree Bellinger may be one year away. However, we just as well trade Agon while he has some value. Put Toles, Pederson, Puig and Thompson in the outfield. Bellinger and Seager in the infield. Let Johnson, Culbertson, Taylor, and Segedin fight it out for 2nd and 3rd. Put Kershaw, Maeda, Urias, and DeLeon as starters. Stewart, DeJong, Stripling and Beuhler for 5th starter. Who ever does not make it, put them in the bull pen. I know one thing, Barnes is much better than Butera for back up catcher. Look what he got for a salary for the next two years. The salaries given out are insane.
Insane salaries is an understatement! especially what Butera got. I saw Bellinger while tuned into that AFL ASG and gosh! His huge swing even dwarfs Joc’s and makes it look like a half swing or bunt! Bellinger has to make adjustments to that huge swing before he gets here or MLB pitchers will eat him up.
If we sign Turner, then I keep Agon. I believe Jansen can be replaced. Let him go. Maybe Rhame or Ravin. In my opinion, we need to resign Turner.
Damn Idaho, there you go again… I’d love it IF we can resign JT also as long as it’s not monopoly money…
Where do a majority of todays closers come from??? Starting ranks or a majority from the farm… Ask many of them who succeed and they tell you it was from given a chance and confidence… We have some bonafide candidates…
Thinking that Ravin or Rhame might be able to replace Jansen, is, at the very least, a stretch, a really long stretch. Closers do not grow on trees. However, there is no doubt that Jansen could be replaced by signing Chapman. In that case the Dodgers replace their closer and add a draft pick too. Maybe it’s even possible to convince Melancon, with enough money, to become the Dodgers 8th inning answer. He also comes without draft pick compensation.
I’m also starting to think that the Dodgers should consider making a serious run at Cespedes, since the only other alternatives for adding a righthanded power bat would probably cost multiple prospects, which are surely as valuable, if not more so, than a late first round draft pick. In fact, keeping Puig and signing Cespedes would give the Dodgers two cannons in the corners.
I agree with Rick’s summation with the exception of the Puig assessment. He’s still young enough, and talented enough, to accidentally put up more WAR than most of the other names mentioned. His contract is easy. Keep talking to him, work the skill set and hope for the best.
I still see it the same way I saw it last year. It would take all of our top prospects, or a tanker of money, to get this team to the Cubs and Nationals level and even then there would be no guarantee we would beat them. I’ve said for two years now this is going to take some time. Of course, I also figured we would have more top prospects than we do. I thought FAZ had the good sense to continue to stack them. Clearly they did not.
AGon is one of the few things that is right about this club. At age 34 he played 156 games for us. He went from 4 WAR in ’15 to 2.1 WAR last year but the fact remains he has more than earned his money for this team. The impact he must have on younger players is likely immeasurable. He’s owed another $45 million over two years and I expect him to continue to earn it, on and off the field. I see no reason to move him so I suggest we ask him what he wants. Perhaps he would like to retire in his home town of San Diego. Perhaps he wants to retire a Dodger. Whatever he wants, he gets. Bellinger can wait, or play an outfield position until AGon retires.
So we continue to wait. And Rick is right about the potential of this club if both our closer and our third baseman leave. And let me be the one who brings up Kershaw’s back issue. Is he completely healed? Those who have suffered what he did know full well after something like that happens, it’s only a matter of time.
Cespedes and Puig in the same outfield is intriguing. Do we believe FAZ will do that? I don’t. But, they continue to surprise me with their moves. I guess it’s possible.
HawkeyeDodger: “The Dodgers have now been linked to every possible 2nd base option not named Brandon Phillips. No I don’t want him. Kinsler, Forsythe, and Dozier have all been mentioned in the rumor mill”
You must have missed the below article.
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/cincinnati-reds-rumors-los-angeles-dodgers-are-coming-for-brandon-phillips-111916
Besides Phillips, Lawrie and Sean Rodriguez have also been linked to the Dodgers in the rumor mill. Rest assured, FAZ will be checking in on everyone that fits, they kind of remind me of the Mrs. when she goes shopping. Just like my Mrs., FAZ just wants to get the best value for their $$$$.
I have said it before: “We should all be very happy if, FAZ signs Turner, beefs up bullpen (including a dominant closer), signs Hill (at reasonable cost), get some right-handed hitting platoon mashers and do “something” about 2nd.”
Looks like they are working very hard to do “something” about 2nd. My first choice (considering projected cost) is Forsythe with Rodriguez signed as the 2017 super-sub.
Anybody know if Plouffe can play 2nd?
Well there it is finally. They now been connected to every 2nd baseman possible.
Good Morning everyone! would Toles be versatile enough to play 2nd?
So – some want to move Puig to 3B and now Toles to 2B?
Bum
Was the first to suggest, to have Toles moved to second.
But I think Bum changed his mind on that.
I do want to know if Toles could play second base and do it better than Johnson and Calhoun. I already think Puig can play third. Russel and Lopes were outfielders that were converted to middle infielders and Russel did it while on the Dodgers. I don’t think he played one game in the infield in the minors.
Fergie was converted to catcher.
Bum
I thought you wanted to get a second base men, that is a leftie killer too.
The Dodgers need a solid righty bat somewhere and if it is in left field where might Toles play? Maybe second.
Or even third base? Who knows? But I really doubt they will try to convert anybody at the major league level…. They are sort of set in their ways…
Wondering
It was a scam, but my credit card company, didn’t let it go through.
I’m glad. I suggest you download some antivirus apps very soon. There are some good ones in the links I sent you. I have Lookout on my cell phone. It’s that time of year, isn’t it? Christmas brings out the worst in some people. A couple of weeks ago some one got into my garage one night. They went through my truck, there were 13 years of receipts scattered in the garage. I’m lucky he didn’t take the garage door opener, I guess. Only one item (as far as I know) missing, worth $60-$70. A day or two later he cleaned out my mailbox. (I only picked it up once a week) Little value usually, but my DMV renewal was in there (Cost $10 to replace it). I immediately rented a Post Office Box and sent changes of address to everyone I could think of notifying. Yesterday I got a call from my bank, asking if I had written a check on that account, which I never write checks on that account. You know those ‘Gift Checks’ banks send you to use for whatever purpose? Actually they are loans to you. I told them no and got the name of the person it was made out to. (Can you believe anyone is that stupid?) I hadn’t called in a Police report yet so at that point I thought it might be worthwhile to report everything. They took the report but the deputy wasn’t encouraging about catching anyone, even with the name. Guess I’ll have to sit up nights with my shotgun to get the bozo next time. I’m thinking about writing a letter detailing all that happened and mailing it to everyone on my street. Almost certainly the culprit lives on this street but nobody knows anybody else here. Got to admit I like it that way…
Wondering
It happened on my iPhone.
I am sorry that happened to you.
It is such a darn hassle when something like that happens.
But at least you had a dumb thief.
I thought mine was a scam at first, but when it said Apple, and I couldn’t get that off my site, I thought differently, and fell for the scam.
Then I thought about calling my credit card company, and they already had put a freeze on my card, so I got lucky.
But now I know exactly what to do, to get that off.
But I am still going to get that virus protection.
I had my registration sticker stolen once too.
I now put in on, and razor cut it, so it can’t be taken off.
I never got those sites you sent me.
I only pick up my mail once a week too.
I should pick it up everyday, because I take my dog for a walk, but I don’t.
The funny thing is that the guy in that scam sounded Asian, and so did the guy at my credit card company, who handles fraud.
That medal of freedom ceremony, that Vin is going to be on, is on Cspan, right now.
Wondering
And I am now looking at those free anti virus apps, so thanks for your help!
I believe they are in the iTunes Store.
Well, that’s one I haven’t heard before TDF. He’s been an outfielder his entire career, so I doubt it. But you know who can play second base? Enrique Hernandez and Micah Johnson, two players FAZ thought enough of to trade for. I’ve asked several times and yet to get an answer from any of our resident FAZoholics – why trade for these two guys if there was no intent to use them? And if I hear organizational depth again I might gag. It ain’t depth if it can’t help you win. Johnson played at AAA and according to his stats hit .281 at that level. We also have Willie Calhoun. That’s 3 second baseman with success at or above AA. There are other names too – Taylor, Culberson, Segedin….. maybe more for all we know. Why are we looking elsewhere? Open it up to all those guys in ST and may the best man win
From what I hear, neither Calhoun nor Johnson is capable of playing big league 2B. Kike – he’s a wait and see in my view. I lack your confidence in him.
Taylor and Culberson are utility infielders – neither one can hit a lick.
Segedin is not a 2B. He has been a corner inf/of guy.
That’s why we are looking elsewhere.
So, out all of those infielders that FAZ traded for or brought in, not one of them can play at the Major League level?
Badger, you left out Barnes and Kendrick. You might be the only person participating in this blog that would think that if FAZ trades for someone or signs someone that they expect to be full time mlb players. They do incremental stuff and finesse the 40 more than they go for full-time mlb players, with exceptions. I am just farting around with this comment though.
One thing that happened when we faced a LHP is Dodgers had that “platoon’ lineup to get more RHB in there but problem was that other than Turner, those guys were mainly utility type/ bench players and it showed by their ineffectiveness against LHP. that lineup against LHP never seemed to work and Turner, as grat as he was last year was horrific against LHP and that didn’t help, and neither did Reddick when he got here. Dodgers must find a way, barring injuries to have a more steady lineup against LHp so a total platoon is not necessary except for an occasional day off for one of the regulars.
Dodgerrick, Kike IMHO has played his way off the MLB roster based upon what he did last year. He did well against LHP in 2015 but wasn’t good at all against them in 2016 when we needed it most. His over all play showed me that chances for 2nd base should go to others either in house or via trade.
Winter meetings in 2 weeks. It’s probably not smart to wait until then to make deals, but if the team wants to re-sign Turner and/or Jansen, now is the time to do it. If they are not re-signed by the start of the meetings, I doubt if it will happen during or after. I still think the closer is more important than the 3B, so Jansen is my choice, if one has to be made. It is true, however, that somewhere out there is a marginal starter who can be a solid closer. Where? A durable, swing and miss, control guy. Easy to find? Right. I miss baseball. Time to look at the Spring Training schedule.
Let’s move someone else to 3B or 2B – well, Ethier and Pederson are both lefties so I guess they are both out.
Or maybe Davey Lopes and Ron Cey will come out of retirement.
Or maybe, just maybe, the Dodgers can get a 2B and a 3B to play the positions?
That moving Puig to third base is really getting old, isn’t it? Sure, he might be able to handle it physically, but he’d need several years of experience to handle it effectively. Move on, re-sign Turner, use one of the several in house second base options we have, try to sign a right handed power hitter and a closer and move on…
Wondering
Your going to get some more material to work with pretty soon.
The winter meetings are not to far away.
You do know you can receive emails on your Ipod, right? I sent you the link to those apps to your email, and there will be similar apps in the Apple Store…
Wondering
Yes I have them now.
Thanks again!
Wondering, talking about Puig at third is moving on from the ad nauseam of “re-sign Turner, use one of the several in house second base options we have, try to sign a right handed power hitter and a closer “
I nominate Turner for third!
hello MJ, I have said all along as has others that he should be the VERY FIRST PRIORITY signing, of course quickly followed by Jansen or Chapman because no way on God’s green or blue earth can they think to be competitive without a legit closer.
The President just said at the end of his thoughts about Vinny.
That he thought about having Vinny speak for him, for all of the recipients.
But he didn’t want Vinny, to have to sing for his supper.
Which President is that, the one everyone hates or the one everyone is looking forward to hating?
Neither.
I think he’s talking about Obama. Yes, pretty sure it’s Obama.
Good reply bluto. I thought Wondering’s comment was very crass. One is what one does.
From some one who posted “Fuck you”. My comment is truth, they are both hated. Like you said, Phred, “One is what one does”. You forgot your Prozac again?
Hi Wondering,
Almost everyone is hated by some body or some portion of people. But you comment was “everyone hates” which is decidedly not true about the current President.
Wondering, I won’t comment on the President elect or our current one, but to say that Vin will be the most missed Dodger ever.
Vin got the longest, and loudest applause, at the ceremony.
And there were a lot of different people awarded today.
MJ, when I tune in to Dodger games in 2017, it sure won’t be the same without Vin. But a well deserved retirement for him to be sure.
Report: Lockout On The Table As CBA Nears Expiration
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/labor-peace-lockout-collective-bargaining-agreement-owners-players-baseball-112216
“We’re not afraid if a lockout” said a player.
To him, and other players who feel the same I offer only this – what Fred said.
The fans ought to start their own lockout. A pox on both their houses…
The Giants reporter was on the MLB show today, talking about the closer’s on the free agent market.
He said last year was the big year for starters, and this year the closer’s.
He said the Giants spent so much on there two starters last year.
And this year, they are going go out and spend some money get one of these closer’s,
I am asking myself, why is a lot of people here, thinking the Dodgers can’t get Turner and Kenley.
After 2018, most of the big contracts will be gone, but will there be any closer’s out there, like the ones on the free agent market, this year?