Monday, May 27, 2024
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Dodgers Trade Howie Kendrick To Phillies For Nothing of Value

Howie Kendrick

In a somewhat unsurprising move the Dodgers have traded second baseman/outfielder Howie Kendrick to the Phillies in exchange for a minor leaguer, and a part time first baseman. The two players acquired in the deal are right handed hitter Darin Ruf, and former Dodger farmhand Darnell Sweeney. The veteran Kendrick was reportedly unhappy about his usage during last season.  That’s not unexpected since the Dodgers played him in left field for a large portion of the season. Kendrick played 94 games in left field.

Kendrick had an injury plagued career worst season that saw him slash .255/.326/.366 with 8 home runs and 40 runs batted in with a .691 OPS in 543 plate appearances in 2016. Kendrick played in 146 games this season and logged just 32 of them at second base. Kendrick was very vocal recently about his disdain for the Dodgers unorthodox usage of him in left field and around the diamond. Kendrick also played 17 games at third base and 11 at first base. The veteran is in the final year of a two-year 20 million dollar contract that he signed with the Dodgers last offseason.

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In this deal the front office acquires the type of player that they drool over, a marginal platoon bat. Ruf is 30-years old and entering his sixth major league season. He was drafted by the Phillies in the 20 round of the 2009 amateur draft. Ruf played in just 43 major league games in 2016 as he split time between the Phillies and their triple-a affiliate Lehigh Valley. While he hit 20 home runs and batted .294 in 95 games for Lehigh Valley, he hit just .205 for the Phillies at the major league level. Ruf was 17 for 83 with 3 home runs and a .573 OPS.

In his five major league seasons, Ruf has a career .240 batting average with a .747 OPS and 35 home runs across five seasons all spent with Philadelphia. Of course his career splits tell us that he bats .299 against left handed pitching. Needless to say that Ruf has been a mediocre hitter and below average defender. It appears he is out of options and probably will not help the Dodgers much if any in 2017. This seems like a straight salary dump.

Sweeney is a former Dodger farmhand that was traded to the Phillies in the Chase Utley deal. The 25-year old switch-hitting second baseman made his only MLB appearance in 2015. In that season he played in 37 games for the Phillies and hit just .176 (15 for 85) with 3 home runs and 11 runs driven in while posting a .639 OPS in 98 plate appearances. Sweeney spent the entire 2016 season with Lehigh Valley and batted just .233 in 118 games.

The Dodgers are now going to be in need of a second baseman as well. Please tell me that’s not going to be Kike Hernandez.

It’s going to be Kike isn’t it?

Scott Andes

Scott Andes: Longtime writer and Dodger fanatic

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Scott Andes
Scott Andes: Longtime writer and Dodger fanatic

165 thoughts on “Dodgers Trade Howie Kendrick To Phillies For Nothing of Value

  1. O’Koyea Dickson is probably better than Ruf. Howie certainly proved to be a valuable trade piece, didn’t he? Kudos to the deepest front office in baseball for turning an All-Star into all this depth.

    1. Who’s the All-Star? The $10 million dollar 33 yr old who couldn’t beat out Utley and is a lousy outfielder. If you mean the guy who was belly aching about Toles playing ahead of him then good riddance.

  2. I thought it was Howie complaining about playing time right before the post season, and obviously I was right.

    I just don’t understand why.

    He was told he would have to be an utility guy, when he was signed.

    And this front office did Howie a favor and signed him when no team would.

    Howie didn’t hit for the entire month of September, and he didn’t do much, when he was played in the post season.

    He hit a few balls hard, but not many dropped.

    He will have to perform in Phillie that is for sure, or they will let him know.

    I thought Roberts did to much for Howie in the post season, when he put Howie in leftfield, because that is where Howie wanted to play, instead of second base.

  3. It will sure be nice when the front office finally acquires a player that we fans can get excited about………not holding my breath over that though.

  4. This move is prefatory to obtaining another 2B and starting to clear up the OF picture. It also removes $10MM in salary (payable over 2 years) which will hopefully go toward signing other and better talent. I have no problem with this move as long it allows the Dodgers to improve their roster.

  5. Doesn’t trading Kendrick save the Dodgers $10 million + $5 million (50% luxury tax) for a total savings of $15 million. No chance, I think, that Kike’ starts at 2B. In fact, I doubt he is with the Dodgers in 2017. My best guess is that the Dodgers acquire a 2nd baseman in a trade, where maybe Kike’ is a part of a package.

      1. Michael

        I agree with you, and I don’t think they can get below the luxary tax until maybe 2018, but by 2019 is more likely.

  6. A lot of balls in the air with this team. The FO does recognize roster improvement is needed. Most of us already knew that. Can they do it? I’m looking at the lineups and starting rotations being posted in here and I have to admit I’m not impressed. Early projections for Andrew Toles do not suggest he is a leadoff hitter, so I don’t see we have one. Until further notice, I put Pederson and his projected .353 OBP there. Any staff that lists Kazmir, Wood, Ryu, McCarthy and a rookie is not one that I consider WS caliber. Not in a league with the giants, Cubs and Nationals in it.

    A lot of work to be done here. We wait to see if we must add a third baseman and a closer to the to do list.

  7. I have been a FAZ supporter, but I am starting to worry how they are doing business. The longer this goes on with Turner and Jansen, the less likely we will sign them. We should of signed them right after the WS. Now I think we are in a bidding war. My guess is that Turner and Jansen think they are not appreciated by the Dodger front office. I am not sure FAZ is good at closing the deal.

    1. History seems to indicate you are right. They seem to procrastinate, negotiate, whatever till the player is signed or traded elsewhere. Then they have to go sign a poor substitute…

  8. If we lose Turner and Jansen, then I think we should blow the team up. Get rid of Utley, Agon, Ethier, Kasmir, and McCarthy for prospects. Let the prospects play this year and try to win in 1918. Keep Kershaw for one year and then trade him the following year for what we need to make the team great.

    1. The only way the Dodgers were going to sign Kenley early, was before this free agent year came up.

      Kenley wanted to go to the open market.

      I’m sure that Turners agent is going to want to get some different offers, so that Turner gets a fair salary, at this point.

      I am afraid the front office does not know how to handle free agents on the open market, as well as the going rate.

      The reason I don’t think they are good on the open market, is the salary and multi year contracts they gave to McCarthy, and Kazmir.

      And they wait around to the last moment, it seems like.

      Like they did with Kazmir and Maeda, and at the trade deadline, they didn’t finish a trade, because they run out of time.

      And I don’t understand it, because you know they have to have back up plans, and they have so much help in that front office.

      If they don’t sign Turner, this is on the front office.

      Because Turner wants to stay with the team, and he isn’t asking for any outrageous contract.

      Turner and his agent know, that Turner has his age and his injury history going against him.

      And they better not insult him with a low ball offer either.

        1. No actual figures have been put out there. There are reports that he will get at least a 4 year deal and close to 65 to 70 million. Speculation is that the Dodgers will get him back, but most think the Dodgers swing and miss on all 3 closers with Kenley going to the Cubbies.

          1. Whoa.

            Couple of questions now:

            First, you wrote he isn’t asking for an outrageous contract. Where are you basing that?
            Second, can you explain the following sentence:
            Speculation is that the Dodgers will get him back, but most think the Dodgers swing and miss on all 3 closers with Kenley going to the Cubbies.
            Isn’t that conflicting news?

          2. Not as far as Jansen is concerned. Look, we all know FAZ is not going to spend close to 20 million a year on a closer. Melancon is going to be the cheapest of the bunch, but MLB has him going back to least in projection. 17 mil a year for Turner is not outrageous seeing how the QO is 17.6. Chapman wants 5 years and 100 mil….they are not going after that carrot. There are a ton of stories and theory’s on where these guys are going. MLB, Fox, Yardbarker, Dodger Blue, Dodger nation, all of them have had story’s on the probable prices and landing spots for FA’s. Not to mention ESPN’s baseball pundits.

    2. Idahoal

      I think Kenley for sure feels that way, because he said he would think about signing before his free agent year came up, and he said this two years ago, when this front office was here.

    3. Big problem with that. First somebody has to want them and their contracts, and not many want Kaz and Mac. A-Gone might fit in NY with the Yankees, but their prospects not that great. Ethier is a 5-10 guy and can refuse a trade, and Utley is a free agent and not under team control.

    1. What they say in November is irrelevant.

      It’s like Zaidi saying Taylor is an option at 2nd.

      If the Phillies call Kendricks the 2nd baseman, then they lose leverage and trade value with Hernandez

  9. I think most of you are making more out of Kendrick’s state of mind than was actually there. Howie has always been a team player, but he wanted to play and still thinks he can. Like most players reaching their ends. The trade was more out of respect for him than it was because he was belly aching. It is true that the team got nothing for him, though. Money off the books. Now either Utley stays or we get Kinsler from Detroit.The Kendrick deal might be a strong indication that the team is in for Kinsler. Any Detroit or Tampa Bay trade (Longoria) will involve Puig. I hope. He would be a good fit in either place. It does seem that 2B and LF might be the first targets this offseason. I don’t think they are ready to hand the keys over to Toles in LF. 3B and closer will have to wait a while.

    1. To get Kinsler, you’re most likely going to have to take Verlander too. And that contract will suck up any money you have saved getting rid of Howie……Thought they wanted to get younger. And cheaper, if that is the case, They have Calhoun, Kike, Taylor….all can play 2nd.

    2. Howie was complaining about playing time, just before the post season last year.

      That isn’t a team player!

      He was also told at his signing, that he would have to accept being a utility player.

      He also didn’t want to play second base in the post season, so Roberts played him in left, and that wasn’t best for the team.

      That isn’t being a team player either!

      1. He did not complain publicly. He went to the manager behind closed doors and talked. He did not cause disruption in the clubhouse. As for the 2nd base thing, he played more games in LF than any other position. So he might not have been feeling he could do the best job there. Howie has always been a pro’s pro. I think he gets a pass on this.

    3. Bobbie, Kendrick played in 146 games and had 543 plate appearances. He played plenty. Now it’s either Utley or Kinsler? First, I hope not and secondly I think there might be more than 2 options for second base.

      The rest of that, yeah, sure, maybe. The thing that some are forgetting is how valuable Puig projects. Before you trade him for people 33 or older you might first consider checking his projections for 2017 and beyond, because you can bet your ass your heroes F’nZ are. How does 3.2 WAR for ’17 sound to you? Puig is entering his prime, Kinsler and Braun are past it. You moan about AGon and Crawford then you ask for this? Come on people. Think forward, not backward. Backward thinking is what got us Tr…….. never mind.

      Somebody here recently posted “it’s about the money”. Ok, the money. If you can get 3 WAR for $8 million you do it. You do it as often as you can. It’s forward thinking like that covers f ups like Kazmir, Anderson and McCarthy.

  10. OK, here’s that lynch mob mentality again:

    1. If anyone believes that FAZ could have signed Jansen two years ago for anything short of an exorbitant contract, well then you must have never been involved in any negotiation in your life. That is just plain silly, if you stop and think about it. Why would Jansen do that? Why would his agent take hundreds of thousands of dollars less? Why would a team offer him a huge deal when he was having “heart issues” at the time? A player nearing his first BIG PAYDAY is never going to to do that. Maybe if Ned had offered him a 6-year deal two years ago he might have signed, but there was no way on God’s green earth Kenley was going to sign last year or this year. Give that a rest. It’s pure fiction.

    2. “They wait around until the last minute.” Of course they do, as if it’s a bad thing. They evidently didn’t like what Milwaukee was offering and Milwaukee had nothing to lose. The Dodgers needed to do the deal, not the Brewers. So, if you have any logic you can assume that the Brewers were asking for the moon and FAZ didn’t want to pay it. Just like most of you say “They overpaid” for Hill and Reddick, if they has traded for Braun and not won, you would also say “they overpaid,” but now you say they waited too long. You are never wrong with that kind of thinking!

    3. We have been through it may times why they signed pitchers like Kazmir, Anderson and McCarthy. I won’t explain it again, but I am sorry that you can’t/won’t grasp it! I’ve also told you that was a temporary path.

    4. The Headline of the post is Dodgers trade Kendrick to Phillies for nothing of value. Really? They traded $10 million of salary for organizational depth. Darnell Sweeney was a very good prospect at one time, who loved being in the Dodgers system. He was heartbroken to be traded to Philly. Maybe his star has burned out or maybe it just waned and he will re-gain his status. I don’t know, but he’s just 25 and has “tools.” Ruf could be a nice addition as a RH hitter against lefties. He has a history of hitting lefties. Maybe both will be at AAA… or not, but the value is dumping a $10 million deal and that is big! I’d like to see them do that with A-Gon who will keep declining and Andre. Just tell Andre he’s a bench player and he will waive his no-trade clause. If the Dodgers could clear $10 million of his salary off the books that would be huge. I’d take another Ruf for him.

    5. You can believe that Turner will give the Dodgers a “Hometown Discount” if you want, but you are delusional if you think that. Like Kenly, he has an agent who get a commission and NOBODY is taking a discount. The process for Jansen and Turner is not going to be that quick. They have to collect all the other offers and see if the Dodgers will match them. WAKE UP! THIS IS THE REAL WORLD. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!

    1. Mark

      If they offered him a decent price he probably would have took it, because of unjury or something else.

      And Kenley didn’t have quite the rep then.

      Mattingly at times, acted like he wasn’t confident with Kenley, before this front office was here.

    2. Mark

      Players do, do home discounts, and take less, to be where they want to be.

      Jason Heyward turned down quite a bit less money, to be with the Cubs.

      The Cardinals offered him more money.

      And Heyward wasn’t the only player that took less, last year.

      The Royals leftfielder took a home team deal too.

      1. It’s rare MJ.

        I’m from Southern California, went to college and taught school in Nothern California. But if someone offered me considerably more money to teach 4 years someplace else I’d likely have taken it. These guys can all retire before the age of 35 and live on the easy street of their choice after that.

    3. Mark

      You made my point about Kenley with the heart issue.

      That would be a good reason to get a better contract for Kenley, with his heat issue, at apparently only at the high altitude.

      It is called security!

    4. Mark

      That is what was said about the Braun deal.

      It didn’t say they backed out, because they said the Brewers wanted to much.

      They said they couldn’t finish the deal because they run out of time.

      They said if the Dodgers and the Brewers had more time, the deal was close to being done.

      You are injecting your own protection for the front office by saying that.

      1. …and you are one of those people who always spin what they read their own way. No one is going to tell you what really went on…

        The fact of matter was that McCarthy and Puig were going to the Brewers for Braun (which did not give Milwaukee much salary relief), so Milwaukee wanted more prospects. Evidently, the Dodgers did not want to give up the ones they asked for.

        GOOGLE IT!

        1. Mark

          My take was also said, look it up.

          I saw what you just addressed later, but the truth is we both don’t know for sure.

          We do know that they didn’t handle the Japenese pitcher, who went back to his previous team, very well.

          And we do know they signed Kazmir, not soon after that.

        2. Mark

          Every team is going to ask for more prospects, in discussions, and it takes time, to make these deals work for both teams.

          The truth even after the Brewers asked for more prospects, the deal was still close.

          They were still trying to make a deal, but they ran out of time.

          What you are talking about, is the last offer, before time run out.

          So what you are saying is the last offer they talked about, before the time ran out.

          So I am right.

          And Google that.

          I don’t spin things I read!

          I just wrote what I read.

          You are the one putting a spin on this!

    5. Yes and no Mark. Neshek was offered more by the Dodgers than Houston. O’Day has been on record saying if his wife didn’t work on the east coast he would be wearing Dodger blue. While I agree with a certain amount in what you’ve said you make a mistake when you lump everyone together in the Reddick/Hill point. Everyone knew we needed a RH bat not another lefty. Also, 2 year deals are stop gaps not 4 year deals.

    1. Hitting fall league pitching is a far cry from doing it every day in the majors. I think that is wishful thinking that he is ready for prime time. He needs some time at AAA first. I do admit the kid looks good, but that can be deceiving.

    2. In that Allstar game, a good AAA pitcher struck out Bellinger twice.

      And did that, pretty easily.

      His HR was on a hanger.

      1. He also hit a deep fly ball to the wall. You’re making too much out of 5 AB’s and Mark is making too much out of the Arizona Fall league.

    3. Mark

      What makes you think Bellinger is close?

      Joc hit for a much higher average in the minors then Bellinger, but you thought Joc wouldn’t make it.

      Why the difference?

        1. Mark

          Thanks because I haven’t seen him that much.

          And after watching that one game, and reading his scouting reports, he sounded a lot like Joc.

  11. I forgot about Brian Dozier of the Twins for 2B. Apparently there have been actual talks about this. I think he is more of a crap shoot than Kinsler, but he is younger and cheaper. He found power that he never had before. Sounds like the good old days of about 15 years ago. Still, not a bad choice. And we can be done with 66.

        1. Hawkeyes

          I believe this was the first year.

          And it was around 250 wasn’t it?

          I was comparing him more to Kensler, not Utley.

          I just don’t want another all or nothing hitter in our line up.

          I think the Dodgers need to have a better productive line up.

          I don’t think Chase should be second base this year.

          1. Dozier is definitely someone who is more likely to turn into an Uggla than Kinsler but he is also much younger and wouldn’t be the star of the team. He would be someone who could play everyday and would be a big upgrade over what the Dodgers currently have on the roster or had last year. Calhoun has AL written all over him and his value is high right now. I see him moving in a deal this offseason.

  12. I don’t really believe in a “hometown discount”. Players have been known to take less if they are coming to the ends of their careers and want a chance at a ring, but this sort of thing is more likely to happen in a sport where there is more of a hard salary cap (NFL, NBA). Neither Jansen nor Turner have any reason to do that now.

    In fact, quite the opposite. This is Turner’s last chance at a big payday – he is 32 and will likely get 4 years. Jansen’s value will likely never be higher either.

    The Dodgers did have a chance to lock Jansen up earlier by extending him. You scoff at the idea, but it happens all of the time. Read today’s post at Dodger’s Digest, where the author spoke of his off-season priorities a year ago, one of which was to extend Jansen.

    In the superheated free agent market of 2016-17, where there are few players of value out there, many of them are Dodgers. Hill, Turner and Jansen have many suitors. All will have many offers and counteroffers to weigh. These negotiations will take time – PLUS the CBA is being renegotiated and one of the issues this year has to do with compensation for signing another team’s free agent. Depending on how this works out, top tier free agents may have more freedom to sign with other teams which could lead to higher prices/salaries. Player agents will be in no hurry to sign their charges with any team until this all sorts itself out.

    The Braintrust’s vision for signing pitchers who are old and infirm is still not defensible.

    1. The Braintrust’s vision for signing pitchers who are old and infirm is still not defensible.

      Short term plan, not long-term. It was just the bridge AND it worked!

      It’s very rare that when a 28 year-old player in the prime of their career who is ready for their first big payday would take a deal just one year or even two years from their big payday. You lock up young guys like Trout or Longoria early in their careers. If Cory does well next year, he would be a candidate. But why would Jansen sign a long term deal after last season unless you would offer him 4 years and $80 million? That would be felony stupid for FAZ to do and what of FAZ offered 4 years at $60 million, do you really think Kenley and his agent would leave $20 million on the table?

        1. You can’t be that blind can you? Yeah maybe, but since your a Veteran I will try one more time!

          Short term plan, COMPETE! Mission Accomplished, two wins from World Series!!! In the process, shut down the quack Dodger Therapy site. The Moron quit treating while he searched for his own therapy. An aside, I couldn’t believe the unhappy “Dodger Fans” around here as the Dodgers battled towards the World Series this year, perhaps because their Quackopractor deserted them.

          Overall plan, COMPETE while not saddling organization with high priced, long-term starting pitching contracts, which would block the young studs coming up! Mission Accomplished! See detailed analysis below.

          Eyes open now?

    2. No one is wanting Turner, not to get paid what he is worth.

      Turner is the most important hitter on this team.

      He will get a good contract, but he won’t get an outrageous contract.

      He is the type of player a team should sign and keep, that is what we are saying.

      1. Hello MJ, Turner SHOULD be signed and kept but as far as $$ paid to him, they should keep in mind that as the only RH impact hitter in lineup, he was horrible against LHP.. We struggled being last in MLB against LHP because all the other RH bats were utility bench players they kept putting in there against them and the same pathetic results happened over and over again. No wonder teams threw as many LHP against dodgers as possible because most of the LH bats could not hit LHP either.

        1. I know Turner has uneven splits, the last couple of years.

          I do think Turner will address that in the off season.

          He hit lefties fine, his first year with the team.

    3. Hawkeyes

      I wasn’t thinking beyond this year really.

      But they will have to trade some of the pitchers, and probably leftie hitters, to get what they want eventually.

      But our GM did talk to the Twins about Dozier.

  13. MJ,

    Heyward took about $10 million less to sign with the Cubs, because the Cards had an aging team and the Cubs were up and coming who had a better chance of winning over a long time. He ended up taking about $1.5 million a year less over an 8 year deal. Jansen is looking at possibly $5 PLUS million a year over a deal half that long. There’s no comparison.

    Maybe there was a time, when Jansen had his heart issues that he would have taken a long-term deal, but without the final medical determination, why would anyone offer it? That would be really stupid.

    Most of that is nonsensical!

    1. Mark

      Kenley had a problem only in Colorado, and this team has signed others, that have more issues then this.

      But I agree with you about Kenley being harder to sign.

      He is going to get some big offers.

      I want Kenley, but if we can’t get Kenley, I would be satified with just getting another closer.

      Turner is more important to me, and I don’t think he will be to expensive by baseball standards today.

  14. The Dodgers got 1 good year out of Anderson. They paid him $26.2MM over 2 years.

    The Dodgers got 0 good years out of McCarthy. They have paid him $24MM so far for 2 years.

    The Dodgers got 1/2 so-so season out of Kazmir. They have paid him $16MM so far for one year.

    One good season for 66.2MM. This does not add up.

    1. .. and it makes sense to pay a guy $207 million over 6 years who gave up 161 hits in 158 IP with a 4.37 ERA?

      KAZ and MAC have two more years to show out or flame out. You never know what will happen. It’s all a crapshoot!

      But again, they were simply the bridge because they didn’t want to sign a long-term deal with Price or Greinke or those guys. Argue all you want, but it worked! Now, they will do something different and they won’t be taking Verlander or Kinsler for that matter.

      1. Hello mark! At this point, even though Kaz and Mac are under contract, I still would allow the kids a chance, as I have seen enough of Mac, Kaz. And I too am not at all surprised at those injury results because those 2 along with Ballet Bret Anderson were damaged goods to a degree in the first place.

    2. Hindsight is always 20/20. Throw in an unexpected TJ surgery and a new contract won’t look so good. On McCarthy, the TJ surgery cost them $24M. Relatively speaking, not bad. Kazmir’s comp is Leake, Kazmir’s contract is 1/2 of Leake’s contract. Anderson’s $26.2M gave the Dodgers a better season than Greinke’s $34M gave AZ, and that is not even factoring in the remaining five years of Greinke’s contract.

      I think we all know FAZ has both a short and long term plan. I believe, the Dodger’s greatest organization strength is their starting pitching prospects. Why block the prospects with high priced long term contract pitchers, especially when you are already in luxury tax territory? The plan is not that difficult to see if people look.

      Many on this board have criticized the Kendrick signing. I thought and still do think, it was a great signing, two years for $20M. Kendrick is a pro in so many ways and filled a great need for the 2016 Dodgers. First, he was INSURANCE for Turner and Utley. Second, he filled in admirably in a super utility role in 2016. Third, even though he had a down year for him, he was traded for organizational depth without paying any future salary. Good job FAZ!

      The options the Dodgers have with Kazmir and McCarthy will surprise many on this board. I believe their contracts can be easily jettisoned if that is what FAZ wants.

        1. Boxout

          I think what we have that the Cubs don’t have, are young pitching prospects.

          And we can always trade those pitching prospects, to get what we need.

          I know the Cubs have to have some, but I think we have more

      1. Agree with you on Kendrick. It was a good signing last year – I expected Utley to have a worse year than he did, and thought that Howie would start most of the year at 2B. Also, the amount that he played at LF was a big surprise – no one expected Puig to spend part of the year in the minors and to have Ethier spend all year on the DL.

        Agree too that Kazmir is tradeable. Disagee on McCarthy – he doesn’t have any kind of recent track record.

        Really disagree on the Braintrust’s strategy to sign the oft-injured. As I have posted previously, there is medical evidence that there are some who are injury prone because of the way that their connective tissue and cartaliginous structures are arranged. i maintain that you can predict that pitchers like McCarthy et al will break down based on this. The genius-types that populate the Braintrust certainly know this or can find it out. It is a flawed strategy, even though I agree that the Dodgers’ strength in the minor is in pitching. Sure, in a few years we all hope that Urias, JDL, et al will be wowing them in the Bigs, but in the meantime, we still paid $66MM for 5 seasons of either mediocrity or absence.

        1. Hello dodgerrick! I agree ,as these injury issues with the SP;s began with the signings before the 2015 season of these injury prone pitchers, and in a sense,in late 2014 Dodgers KNEW of Ryu’s shoulder issues as he missed most if not all of Sept. that year and then found out he would miss the entire 2015 season. Then they waited around thinking Ryu would be ready by 2016 and look what happened…..

        2. Yes, Kendrick in outfield was a bit of a surprise. I think it had more to do with Thompson and VanSlyke injuries than Ethier/Puig. Ethier is probably a platoon player at this point. If VanSlyke/Thompson hadn’t got hurt, we probably would have seen Kendrick platooning more at second base. I wonder if having Thompson/VanSlyke/Kendrick/Puig all in the lineup would have helped against lefties.

          Again hindsight is 20/20. Admittedly, the Anderson/Kazmir/McCarthy signings have given us less than stellar results, but the $66M was split between three starters over two seasons. $11M per “starting” pitcher, per season is not that big. The health issues with the three were unfortunate. Maybe something to your “injury prone” point, but, ALL teams take flyers on previously injured players, especially pitchers and I am sure Dodgers think they have the best medical people trying to analyze each player’s situation that they are considering signing.

          Last point, regarding “The Trade”, Crawford has cost Dodgers more than $66M and that money was all invested in one player, who just had TJ surgery. Another issue that makes the trade SO BAD was the Dodgers already had Kemp and Ethier under contract when the trade was made. The trade meant the Dodgers had three $20M/season outfielders and none were capable of playing center. There were much better ways of spending the $$$ the trade consumed.

          1. Boxout

            Howie had a better average against righties then lefties this year.

            And Puig wasn’t hitting well against leftie either, until he came back from AAA.

            And Scott has been hurt thre last couple years, so maybe they will find someone new.

    3. And Rick even some of the pitchers they had to go out and get, because of these two, also cost money.

      Like Michael’s son, and Hill.

  15. To the best of my knowledge, Howie Kendrick was a positive presence in the locker room. It was only after the season, that he said he didn’t want to keep doing what he was doing. He’s a class act and a good guy. It’s not right to demonize a guy who just wants to start, He has a shot at one more payday. FAZ gave it to him. Good luck, Howie – you helped a lot a last year!

  16. A lot of talk the last few posts about trading Pederson. Mark suggests we send Joc to the Pirates for a 1 year rental of McCutcheon. He says it makes sense if Verdugo is ready in 2018. I think that trading Pederson would be a huge blunder. First off he has more power than Verdugo or McCutcheon. McCutcheon had a couple of good power years in Pittsburgh, but most everyone knows that power hitters in LA often have their numbers drop. For instance, A-Gone has not hit 30 since becoming a Dodger and he had multiple 30 plus HR years prior to coming to LA> . Second. Pederson just finished his second season. Duke Snider at a comparable age hit 21 HR’s in his 3rd season. Joc has surpassed that number twice and he will be entering his 3rd year. Duke did not really blossom until he was 25. He had his 1st of 5 in a row 40 HR seasons when he was 27. He got better every year and Joc will too. He is superior to Verdugo defensively and close if not as good as McCutcheon. Mark also thinks we should get Braun. I have my own take on that and I am not on board. Yes, the guy is a masher against righty’s. But neither am I ready to push a much younger player like #66 out the door. The guy is exciting, Braun is not. And I think he is finally realizing that it takes more than raw talent to succeed in the majors. He is team controllable on a very team friendly contract, and fits what they are trying to do. Unload the bigger contracts, and get more players who fit that mold. Oh yeah, fix the damn starting rotation already.

    1. Michael, I am NOT for dealing Joc at all either. He actually showed a little improvement at least against LHP and his K’s dropped a bit from 2015. That being said Dodgers have 3 up and coming position players in Bellinger, Verdugo and Calhoun. BUT THEY ARE ALL LH hitters. IMHO any of those NOT named Bellinger can be moved but only for the right return. Again, besides retaining Turner and Jansen, Dodgers MUST solve this hitting issue against LHP.. Being last in MLB in .213 BA and last in OBP, OPS against LHP was ONE BIG reson why Dodgers fell short in PS.. That and asking CK to go the extra mile with no support behind him once again. Hernandez is not an answer either, as he floundered against all comers in 2016.

      1. I agree they need to do something, but not sure Braun is the answer since he would only occupy 1 spot in the order. What is funny is that Grandal hits for better average RH, but more power from the left side, so is Barnes the answer in the back up role and can he hit LHP enough to make a difference. Hernandez over achieved in 15, and looked over matched this year his 2 HR’s vs the Mad Bum not withstanding.

  17. Another thing. Most of the trades I see the team mentioned in are about high paid players on the wrong side of 30 and us giving up youth. What happened to the plan??? Verlander, Braun, McCutcheon, Kinsler, all those guys make some bucks. And the teams wanting to trade them are not going to eat all that money. Hell if you are going to do that, trade for Miggy, who Detroit is saying is available. Now there is a real RH power guy with numbers, and he has a HUGE contract, but he is a better hitter than anyone on this team.

      1. HawkeyeDodger, hello there and of course Miggy would be great but his $$ remaining is way too much. As for RH bats to hit LHP, there sure has to be other options. If Dodgers don’t address this issue against LHP, look for the same results as 2016 with those attempted ‘platoon’ lineups that time and time and time again failed miserably against LHP!

        1. Oh course MIggy/Braun would help the LHP situation. However, I don’t think “platooning” itself was the problem, rather, platooning the wrong players. Would we be better in 2017 against LHP with Thompson, VanSlyke, Puig, Ruff and a couple more righties with good splits? Couldn’t be much worse.

          My off-season remains, sign Turner (highest priority), beef up bullpen (getting one of the closers and more) and sign Hill (if the price is right). I keep the youth coming. As PDF 1965 says we have good left handed hitting position players on the way, and already have some, I look for righty platoon players who mash lefties to play in the 30% of games a LHP starts.

          If a Detroit/Milwaukee or someone else wants to dump salary, I am listening, but, not giving up a bunch of prospects for old players. Starting staff looks OK, to me, with a beefed up bull-pen.

          1. Hello Boxout7! maybe some truth to platooning the wrong players against LHP, but with injuries to SVS and Trayce, it made it a tough issue. If we can balance the lineup by not having maybe 90% or more of the run production having to come from the left side, we might be better off with not having to drastically change the lineup when a LHP faces Dodgers. By the way, in the AFL , our main guy, Cody Bellinger has 7 hits in only 15 AB’s against LHP for .467 clip and from what I have seen he handles them quite well, so far. I was impressed with that bomb he hit against a LHP in the AFL ASG.

        2. I agree entirely, I can’t see relying on SVS, Kike, Ruf, and Trayce to solve the problems vs left-handers.

          1. Hawkeye

            Obviously that isn’t enough

            I read that Ruff hasn’t hit lefties that well, in the last few years.

            And Scott hasn’t done much at all, in the last two years because of injuries.

            This is the Dodgers, not the Rays or As.

        3. In reply to your comment on Bellinger, again I say, hitting guys in the AFL is not the same as playing against MLB pitchers every day. So he hit a HR off a lefty in the AFL all star game, means nothing. How he will do in the bigs, no one knows and by the way, unless a trade miraculously appears out of no where, A-Gone has 2 years left in LA>

          1. Michael, yes that is true about Bellinger in the AFL as far as hitting LHP but it is a start at least and if he does end up doing OK in MLB against them, then platooning him with a RHB won’t be necessary.

          2. You said it…IF….and that is a big word. Look the kid is talented we all can see that. But MLB ready? Are you secure enough to just hand him the job at 1B and trade a guy who has a long track record of producing. Even with diminished skills he tied for the RBI leadership on the team. And if Turner does not resign those runs will have to be driven in by somebody. Until they make like Corey Seager and do it in the majors, they are NOTHING BUT PROSPECTS>

      2. Every now and then there’s a guy comes along who doesn’t pay attention to the calendar and keeps on performing long after the average guy is done. Beltre for instance and there are others. Not saying Miggy is that guy but if a good hitter becomes available, if his former team will eat enough of his salary to temper the risk somewhat, it might be a good thing to give him a try. Five or six years ago some GMs were afraid to risk money on R A Dickey and Bartolo Colon because they were “finished”. Funny thing, they’re still making big money pitching in the bigs. Personally, I don’t mind risking Guggenheim’s money for good players, they can afford it.

        1. Only problem with that thinking is, those players who keep on trucking are few and far between. Father time is ruthless, most anyone on this board can tell you that. Heck, you yourself probably know that, but just forgot.

          You may not mind risking Guggenheim’s money but they do!! I admit, it’s a lot more fun to spend other people’s money, but the people who don’t mind others spending their money are also few and far between. Your living in a total fantasy world if you believe that bad signings don’t effect future signings and moves. I believe, the Dodger sabermetric guys are going to try and limit their risk by only signing “old guys” when the “price is VERY right”.

          1. Boxout7, many on the message board make it a practice of spending the owner’s $$. But some actually have mentioned ways to do so that are not far fetched.. Hopefully this off season Dodgers won’t continue a practice of putting too many ‘band aids on broken legs’.. Most know the FIRST priorities are Turner and Jansen. After that a legit # 2 SP might be a good thing, as in 2016 it appeared to be CK, then everyone else and it appeared most of the burden was on him.

        2. PDF

          The in balance is because the front office let Hanley walk, and traded Kemp away, but they have never brought back a good right hand bat, after that.

          And Puig isn’t a big bat, at this time in his career, and who knows if a ever will be that bat.

          1. I concur,MJ, there were no real replacements to Kemp and Hanley and in 2016 hitting against LHP was horrible as we all know, .213 BA, the lowest in MLB.

    1. Totally agree michael,stick to the plan FAZ what do you idiot don’t understand. I am also tried of hearing go get that ageing over paid player.once again stick to the PLAN.

    2. Michael

      Suprising Kinsler doesn’t really make that much more then Howie, and I think there yearly salary is the same.

  18. Michael, Since you read a lot, you must be a Jack Reacher fan. My nephew and I thought the movie lost all credibility when they had the 5 ft 6 in Tom Cruise playing the 6 ft 5 in, 250# Jack Reacher…

    1. I actually never read the books. But usually Hollywood gets it wrong anyway. Come on, Dean Martin as Matt Helm? James Bond worked because they have had mostly good actors in the part. Except Timothy Dalton and George Lazenby. Although I would love to see a remake of that particular book. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service. One of the better plots. But a lot of movies have gotten the players wrong. I do think Cruise works well in the Mission Impossible series.

      1. I thought George Lazenby did a good job in “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service”. One of my favorite Bond movies. Oh course, Bond’s wife was very beautiful and that helped.

        Is that Admiral Nimitz?

        1. That is Admiral William ( BULL) Halsey. Lazenby did do a pretty good job then screwed himself afterwards by turning really weird, so the producers went looking for a new Bond. It is my favorite Bond book, and I would love to see it redone. Bond’s wife was played by Diana Rigg, who was a co-star on the BBC TV series, The Avengers. She was awesome.

          1. Thanks guys for straightening me out on Halsey. I had seen that Mug before, but, couldn’t place it. Great Man!

            Thanks also for the Diana Rigg picture. She is as beautiful in black and white as color.

  19. Hawkeye,

    I never head that Howie made playing time an issue during the season. I always heard he was a total pro. Can you point out where that info came from? All I saw was this:

    1. Vassegh and some other media had commented that there were veterans unhapoy with their playing time. Dave Roberts confirmed it and said there were a lot of players that considered themselves full-time players. At that time I mentioned that I thought it was Kendrick. Once Toles got moved to LF because Reddick had RF it seemed logical that it had to be Kendrick. It couldn’t have been to overt because Howie was still getting PT but less AB’s and his numbers were dropping. The recent reports all but confirmed my suspicions. I don’t think he went all Kemp in the locker room but was unhappy. I also wonder if his not wanting to play 2B in the playoffs was a form of pouting about losing 2B job to Utley.

      I wouldn’t use DV as someone who has a ton of baseball knowledge but certainly has a good feel of the locker room atmosphere and how the team gets along.

      1. Hawkeye

        I read the same thing, and it was obvious who it was.

        Also Roberts wanted to play Howie at second, and Howie told him he wanted to play leftfield.

        I understood that, since that is all Howie had mostly played, but that made us weaker as a team.

        Also Howie didn’t hit at all in September, and I just think that maybe he was upset about Chase too, now that I think about it.

        Because Chase wasn’t hitting much either, but Chase does bring a lot to a team, in other ways.

        1. MJ, I did find it puzzling when I heard Howie wanted to play LF in PS but it’s good this got out now about him being unhappy with his playing time and all. He most likely would have remained at 2nd base had it not been for Utley’s good showing up though August. And it would have meant we might have been stronger defensivekly in LF but Howie did OK there even though it wasn’t his ‘normal’ position. dodgers did right by dealing him and who we got from Philly? We will have to see if they pan out, but most likely both Ruf and Sweeney start the year at OKC.

  20. I guess righty power bats are scarce but wouldn’t it be nice if the Dodgers could trade Verdugo for a guy with the same tools and age but bats from the right side? The same could be said about Toles. Neither are power bats but aren’t singles hitters either.

    I suppose a guy like Dozier would help the Dodgers but I would rather trade prospects for prospects. Need to find a team that needs young outfielders or young pitchers that have young infielders and get a second baseman that way.

    I think I could be happy with Urias, De Leon, and Buehler being mostly saved for the second half and compliment Kershaw in the playoffs while riding Stewart, Stripling, Maeda, Kershaw, McCarthy, and Kazmir in the first half. I would rather do that than trade prospects for older expensive players including Verlander, Braun, Cespedes.

    1. Bum

      JDL does have a good slider, he just didn’t use it when he came up.

      I don’t trade Urias, Stewart, JDL, because they will be viable major league pitchers, and they are not that far off.

      I don’t where they all will pitch in a rotation, but they look better, then some of our veteran pitchers.

      And I think eveyone would be more patient with them.

      Stewart might need another pitch, but I just think JDL didn’t get to pitch enough, at the big league level, to have a chance to get better, like Urias, and Stewart did.

      1. MJ, I would keep those young arms ya mentioned too, UNLESS a deal came along that was overwhelmingly to good to pass up. I much rather JDL, Stewart and Urias be in rotation than McCarthy, Kazmir and as far as Ballet Bret, he is a FA and won’t be getting another QO anyway.

        1. PDF

          I think any fan that really knows the Dodgers, would rather see our young guys pitch, instead of the amazing three, which is down to two, with Anderson now working on his dance career.

    2. I don’t want to trade Toles, not all players come up and hit right away.

      For anyone that was worried about Tole’e defense, he saved 8 runs with his defense in left last year, and that was in just over 100 innings.

      And that is why it was important to have Toles in left, over Howie.

      I just think after he made his first bad throw of the season, in that post season game, he tried to make up for it.

      He will be better if he gets more consistent starts, and by playing with Joc.

      They are both centerfielders, so they can cover a lot of ground, and that running catch he dropped won’t happen again, with more experience.

      Everyone forgets he started at A ball, and he made the adjustments all the way up, to the majors.

      He just needs more experience.

      He is also the fastest on the team, and that is part of the reason, he did have eight defensive runs saved.

      Remember he cut off that ball, before the ball went to the wall, that Worth tried to score on, and Toles made that good throw to Corey, to help throw Worth out.

      Puig might be fastest in a bigger distance, but not by a lot.

      Toles gets quicker jumps then Puig, because he is smaller, with shorter legs.

      I don’t think anyone else in the outfield, had close to that many defensive runs saved.

      1. Puig takes much better routes than Toles and covers more ground but Toles is a bigger threat to steal bases. I think a lot of us are sleeping on how much power Toles may have. Playing everyday I think he could hit 15-20.

        Friedman should have a good idea what Toles skill set really is and whether or not that makes Verdugo more tradeable. They both project as corner outfielders with the ability to play CF.

        1. Hawkeye

          It is weird about routes, because some players, have the natural ability just to run great routes.

          And others have enough speed, to make up for there poor routes.

          I agree about Toles power.

          And remember Roberts said, that Toles might be the strongest guy on the team.

          Toles not only can hit a few out, he has gap to gap power, that goes well with his speed.

          His bat speed is really good too.

  21. If McCarthy does not have much value, then we need to keep him. I said this before, I really think he could be a good reliever. He has good stuff.

    1. McCarthy may have good stuff, but he doesn’t have the attitude to pitch relief, and pitch for the Dodgers.

      After the Giants hit him in his last start, he said they were hitting him so violently.

      He needs to go to a team with no big expectations.

  22. We need to keep all of our good young pitchers. We have kept them this long, why trade them for an aging veteran. We have Urias, Stripling, Stewart, DeLeon and Beuhler. Two or three should be good. Let them fight it out. This will allow money to be spent on Turner and Jansen.

    It does not bother me to start young pitchers. If they can throw hard and command their pitches, they will be fine. It takes time to develop a young hitter. That is why I would not trade Pederson. He should develop into a very good hitter this year. Seager is a rarity. To hit like he did this year is unbelievable.

    1. McCarthy does not have the mind set of a reliever. He also is one of those guys who cannot get warmed up in a hurry.

  23. Nothing said about Segedin the last few weeks. Where does he fit in? The suits like him. He had a good spring last year. Can play 3B. Is he the successor to Turner? They want to stay “in house.” I think he is the guy, if Turner goes. Might be ok. But then, LF becomes a bigger issue because Segedin probably won’t produce like Turner, short term. We will need some big time production out there. Maybe if we can get a run producer at 2B and/or LF, we won’t miss Turner. Back to Dozier/Kinsler. It makes some sense to let Turner go and beef up 2B. The trouble with all this is that the Turner/Jansen situations will take some time to play out, and possible trades will have to wait. I guess everyone’s in the same boat on that one.

    1. If Segedin is the starting 3B then go into full rebuild mode. He’s a nice story but at best a bench guy and at worst a AAAA guy.

      1. Concur, HawkeyeDodger about Segedin. He is a role/ bench player who could fill in at some positions but not for an extended period. If the deal with the Twins does not cost us Bellinger, Urias to name a few, then I would be OK with getting Dozier. He is 29 and still has good years in front of him. What makes guys like Verdugo, Calhoun, Rios, to name a few is that they are LHH.

  24. I’ve done a little research and can find not a single player, yet, who can match or even come close to Braun’s Lifetime BA of .336 or OPS of 1.028 vs LHP. So far Cabrera is at .317 and .986.
    As far as Braun being on the downside of this career, the last two years say otherwise. He’s even stolen 40 bases in those two years with a 80% success rate.

    1. If we can get him and Villar, we have solved the 2B problem also with Leadoff hitter and base stealer in Villar and Braun in LF RH power hitter and DESTROYS LHP.

      1. Braun and Villar would cost at least: Calhoun, Verdugo, Hernandez, De Leon and Puig. That’s a lot, but maybe worth it. Milwaukee would also ask for Bellinger but not get him!

        1. Mark:
          Actually I don’t think it is if Bellinger is not included as you say. Let them have McCarthy if what you proposed isn’t enough. We pay Braun’s salary and they pay McCarthy and Puig’s salary.

          1. I’m not all that sure about Toles yet. I’d like to see a lot more of him before I make a definite determination.

        2. While I have never been a fan of Puig and wanted to trade him for Fernandez three years ago I now think I am happy with a Toles, Pederson, Puig outfield and no platooning.

          Dump as much of Kazmir’s, McCarthy’s, Ethier’s, and Gonzales’ salaries and sign Jansen, Turner, and Meloncon, Tolleson, Blanton. Hopefully the Dodgers wind up with a second baseman through those salary dump trades.

          Okay, keep Gonzales to keep MJ happy.

          1. Bum

            I just don’t see anyone right now, that will produce as well as Agone will, at this point in his career.

            Mark thinks Bellinger is ready, but we will never know, until he comes up and plays.

            But I agree let this outfield play, and if someone isn’t producing enough, after a while, then go to someone else.

            I look at other teams we play, and they don’t have there talented young players, sitting on the bench.

            They give them the playing time and see what they can do.

            That is the problem with to much depth.

            I don’t think you get the best from a player, playing them part time.

            Even if a player doesn’t hit lefties well, it still makes them to be a better hitter, if they are getting consistent at bats, including when lefties pitch.

        3. If they take one of our turd pitchers off our hands I think I would do it if they’re determined to ship Puig off anyways. I’d at least think hard about it.

  25. Just a friendly reminder that it’s not necessarily smart to sign players immediately.

    The Cubs signed Jason Heyward at the end of December last year and Fowler at the end of February. Fowler may have been one of the best signings, but Theo didn’t go out and overpay, He got him on the cheap. Fowler wasn’t even going to be part of the Cubs plans last year until Theo had him fall in his last. Talk about genius all you want, but sometimes it;’s better to be lucky!

    1. The only reason the Cubs got Fowler, is because Fowler wanted badly to be on the Cubs.

      The Orioles thought they had a agreement with Fowler, but then the Cubs gave Fowler a offer, and Fowler ran back to the Cubs.

      One thing I heard from Theo that I like, is that Theo always try’s to keep players in, on what he might do.

      And he always try’s to be honest with his players too.

  26. I do not agree about signing late. Heyward is not in the same category as Turner and Jansen. They have more than one team bidding for their services. I offer Jansen and Turner a contract they cannot refuse. If they refuse, I start looking someplace else for a replacement. I let Turner and Jansen know that I want them. If my back up plan is good, then I may not offer a great salary. I do not see a good replacement for either player.

    1. Why not let both know that you want them and that you know they should make every dime possible. Ask them to give you the right to beat their best offer. Otherwise, you might have to pay too much. If either one has any sense, they will talk to every interested team anyway. “Give me right to keep you by beating your best offer, that’s all.” That’s what I would say.

  27. I’m certain both Turner and Jansen desire to remain Dodgers. Both like the fans, especially Turner. If Turner felt a good offer may have short table life with Dodgers I believe he’d jump. He wasn’t appreciated in his two former organizations but found home at his home. I’ve stood up for both these guys whenever any discontent was voiced. They’re more than water and the well is pretty dry. Just handle it dammit!

  28. That works for me as long as they are willing to give you a chance to beat their best offer. If they have that agreement, I am ok with it.

  29. Every year there is a player or two that is waited on to set the bar for this year’s crop of players. Last year it was Heyward.

    This year there is some other things going on too. The CBA for one. Will there still be a first RD draft pick attached for those receiving a qualifying offer? The CBA expires in a couple weeks I believe. Also, it is a weak class and most meaningful movement could be via trade.

    Chapman and Jansen may be waiting to see who blinks first. I could be wrong but I can’t see Melancon signing first. Cespedes won’t be doing another short term deal nor will Fowler. I think those two will go much earlier this year because teams won’t mind giving up the draft pick for them if it is still attached. It’s the guys who aren’t necessarily worth both the money and pick that will hang around. Ian Desmond could be that guy this year. Homie Kendrick last year. Not knowing the CBA will leave those type of guys in limbo potentially.

    I have to think Turner and Jansen will check back with the Dodgers before signing elsewhere.

    Guys who don’t have qualifying offers have moved so far. Dickey and Colon both signed. Rich Hill knows he will get more annually and more than the 1 yr deal they got. So, Hill could done soon because there isn’t a QO. Reddick is drawing interest because there isn’t a qualifying offer either.

        1. Hawkeye

          I have a feeling that the Giants won’t sign a top closer, and I mean Chapman and Kenley.

          They will probably sign Melancon, and try to do it, as fast as they can.

          And I think the Dodgers and Giants will maybe try to sign Holland as a back up, if he looked ok, when a threw for all of the teams.

          But so many teams need a good closer, and that is why I don’t think Kenley will be that easy to sign.

          Did you just see Friedman on High Heat?

          Our front office guys, don’t ever say much, but there spiel.

  30. ROY awarded today. Pretty much expected to be Corey in the NL, and Fulmer in the AL. QO’s today, I do not think many will take it. Maybe Hellickson in Philly.

    1. Michael, as of this post both Kenley and Turner have turned down this QO. You’re already aware of that most likely. As far as Bellinger goes for 1st, he most likely spends most of 2017 at OKC and Gonzalez still has a couple of years left on his deal.. So yes, I sure hold on to Agon because even though his HR’s went from 28 in 2015 to 18 in 2016 he still is a clutch RBI guy. Eventually I would like to see Bellinger get a taste up here and stick close to Agon as an understudy and learn the ropes from him.

  31. Because of the QOs, even though the player(s) rejected it already, there are not likely to be any signings until the new work agreement is signed because of the possible draft choice loss. That does not apply to clubs re-signing their own free agents.

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